united health care ad

[birdog1960]

You obviously don't know what that word means.

'

"characterized by vision or foresight"...if you choose an alternative definition, so be it but that's what was meant and i believe conveyed despite your feigned ignorance.

[DC Tom]

'

"characterized by vision or foresight"...if you choose an alternative definition, so be it but that's what was meant and i believe conveyed despite your feigned ignorance.

 

Not helping yourself, actually...

[Booster4324]

Not helping yourself, actually...

 

You may disagree with his position (and I do as well), but nothing wrong with that post IMO.

[Alaska Darin]

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"characterized by vision or foresight"...if you choose an alternative definition, so be it but that's what was meant and i believe conveyed despite your feigned ignorance.

You conveyed something that doesn't exist. Single Payer is in no way visionary - it already EXISTS.

 

You and the rest of the single payer proponents are ignoring reality. The government has already proven it can't be trusted with health care (ask a !@#$ing veteran). The fact that the FIRST thing the current administration did was take economy of scale with Big Pharma off the table ought to be more than hint enough that getting them MORE involved isn't going to change much in a positive way.

 

But you go ahead and keep lying to yourself.

[DC Tom]

You may disagree with his position (and I do as well), but nothing wrong with that post IMO.

 

I disagree. I think he would have looked less stupid not knowing what "visionary" meant. Thus...not helping himself.

[OCinBuffalo]

um...yeah those labors would include mine since i'm a physician. it might surprise many of you how many docs support single payer. in some specialties it's a majority. and, yeah, the deal with big pharma sucks. it appears it was a condition to get reform started...the slippery slope has only recently been erected.

Yeah right, as a guy who has gained a lot of insight into health care business processes in the last 10 years, I can guarantee you that any physician would support any plan that makes their reimbursement easier, or dare I say, consistent and reasonable. You have confused "only having to deal with one payer" with the concepts of "simplicity and consistency". Single payer is not simple, it sure as hell isn't consistent, and it's not going to get you what you want.

 

Think about it for a second: do you really want the same people who gave us the MDS, CPT codes, and all the other "greatest hits" in charge of even more things?

[birdog1960]

Yeah right, as a guy who has gained a lot of insight into health care business processes in the last 10 years, I can guarantee you that any physician would support any plan that makes their reimbursement easier, or dare I say, consistent and reasonable. You have confused "only having to deal with one payer" with the concepts of "simplicity and consistency". Single payer is not simple, it sure as hell isn't consistent, and it's not going to get you what you want.

 

Think about it for a second: do you really want the same people who gave us the MDS, CPT codes, and all the other "greatest hits" in charge of even more things?

ever considered that to some, it's not just about maximizing profit...thought not.

[OCinBuffalo]

ever considered that to some, it's not just about maximizing profit...thought not.

Oh, please, spare me the "I take care of people, so that absolves me of making sound business decisions, accepting my leadership role and management responsibilities" thing. I am soooo bored with that.

 

Profit? How many Medicare patients did you "willingly" see this week doc? How many Medicaid? Did you enjoy your $18-30 a visit? You send an ambulance to pick up your patient from the nursing home that is 30 yards away yet this week? Please.

 

I remind you again, 10 years, your industry, and I have a lot of fans. My favorites are the 300 lb nurse aids, except when they hug me.

[Doc]

ever considered that to some, it's not just about maximizing profit...thought not.

It's not just about maximizing whose profits? Yours, the government's, or some designee of theirs? If Medicare/Medicaid rates and the deals Barry cut with Big Pharma (promising them no re-importation of cheaper drugs from outside the U.S.), the AMA (getting them to sell out their constituents so that they could keep their CPT code monopoly), AARP (getting them to sell out their constituents so that they could continue to sell Medi-gap policies), and hospitals (promising them there would be no national public health option) didn't clue you in on how it's going to be done under single payer, nothing will. And costs will only continue to rise to disastrous levels, leading to rationing, which is something I'm sure you wouldn't want to see.

 

But hey, if you want to take less for all your hard work (not only now, but getting to this point) and risk, be my guest. I'll gladly take your portion, rather than giving it to some 3rd party. As for me, I (as an anesthesiologist) already contribute to charity when I get roughly 1/3 reimbursement for Medicare/Medicaid patients, who almost invariably are the sickest patients I see and thus increase my risk exposure, compared to privately insured patients, and often-times get stiffed on that paltry bill.

[OCinBuffalo]

"It's not just about maximizing whose profits?" Yours, the government's, or some designee of theirs? If the deals Barry cut with Big Pharma (promising them no re-importation of cheaper drugs from outside the U.S.), the AMA (getting them to sell out their constituents so that they could keep their CPT code monopoly), AARP (getting them to sell out their constituents so that they could continue to sell Medi-gap policies), and hospitals (promising them there would be no national public health option) didn't clue you in on how it's going to be done under single payer, nothing will. And costs will only continue to rise to disastrous levels, which is something I'm sure you wouldn't want to see.

 

But hey, if you want to take less for all your hard work (not only now, but getting to this point), effort, and risk, be my guest and I'll gladly take your portion, rather than giving it to some 3rd party. As for me, I (as an anesthesiologist) already contribute to charity when I get roughly 1/3 reimbursement for Medicare/Medicaid patients, who almost invariably are the sickest patients I see and thus increase my risk exposure, compared to privately insured patients.

Waiting for birdog's response on how many Medicare/Medicaid patients....tick...tick....tick....probably ain't going to get it, huh?

 

"It's not about profit"...in general...as long as you aren't talking about cutting whoever says that's profits.

 

There are lots of these in health care:

"We are patient/resident centered"...but spend all of our time talking about staffing.

"We need more staff"...but can't tell you how much, what kind, when, and where.

"We know our patients/residents/facility"...while achieving the working encyclopedic knowledge required to actually make that statement truthful is far beyond human capability.

"We need electronic medical records"...so we can have another system doctors/nurses won't use, because it is designed for accountants and bureaucrats, not doctors, nurses, or anybody that works with their hands in a mobile environment, can't be customized, and is so massive that "it takes 20 minutes just to enter a simple task, and 30 minutes to get the simple information I need right now".

 

...but believe me I don't blame you guys for any of it. The reason these "lies to self", and "myths about the organization" exist have far more to do with external influences, than the providers themselves. These are just the mantra that has been developed as the response to the no-win situation most providers find themselves in.

 

Just add "We need single payer" to that list.

[Nanker]

You obviously don't know what that word means.

 

You want single payer? Go practice for DoD or the VA. You'll see the future of American health care as you "VISIONARIES" will get it.

 

Single payer isn't a magic bullet or anything even close. It's just a different set of problems with a bigger bureaucracy running it.

 

The only things "Single Payer" will mean is more overhead, more costs, and less productivity. Just like it has in every other entity the government has put its paws into. DoD? Education? Social Security?

 

Good luck, visionary.

Shhh! Two years out of Med School, and he's seeing visions. It'll take him decades to discover that the government is 1,000 times worse than corporate bureaucracy. Forget that Medicaid is being snuffed out and that Medicare will, for the majority of Americans, be the new standard of care - and payment (30 cents on the dollar). EVERYBODY will have "health care" and the providers won't have to hassle with dozens of insurance companies for payment. The government will cheerfully and promptly fork over that 30 cents, until some "government agency overseen by elected officials" decides they want to pay 20 cent and take 180 days to pay. Oh yeah.

 

The government is more efficient than private enterprise. That's a hoot! Like the government agency of "health care" oversight will be efficient and cost less to run than medical insurance companies. It'll be great getting that 4% savings put back into the US treasury. Balanced budget - I can see you coming now!

[birdog1960]

Oh, please, spare me the "I take care of people, so that absolves me of making sound business decisions, accepting my leadership role and management responsibilities" thing. I am soooo bored with that.

 

Profit? How many Medicare patients did you "willingly" see this week doc? How many Medicaid? Did you enjoy your $18-30 a visit? You send an ambulance to pick up your patient from the nursing home that is 30 yards away yet this week? Please.

 

I remind you again, 10 years, your industry, and I have a lot of fans. My favorites are the 300 lb nurse aids, except when they hug me.

i see a combined total of 85% medicare + medicaid. avg. pt load per week = 110. and yeah, it doesn't surprise me that an anesthesiologist won't be happy with the changes a comin. their will be winners and losers with reform and specialty and subspecialty providers won't be celebrating victory. primary care docs in the single payer british system actually make more than their us counterparts (on average). Hence the looming critical shortage of primary care docs in the us. i'm satisfied with what i earn now so any more would be a bonus. btw, i haven't sherked my "administrative responsibilities. i'm one of those dinosaur docs that actually hung a shingle and own my own business. but this is more about universal, equitable access to care than it is business. the best route there is single payer

[birdog1960]

It's not just about maximizing whose profits? Yours, the government's, or some designee of theirs? If Medicare/Medicaid rates and the deals Barry cut with Big Pharma (promising them no re-importation of cheaper drugs from outside the U.S.), the AMA (getting them to sell out their constituents so that they could keep their CPT code monopoly), AARP (getting them to sell out their constituents so that they could continue to sell Medi-gap policies), and hospitals (promising them there would be no national public health option) didn't clue you in on how it's going to be done under single payer, nothing will. And costs will only continue to rise to disastrous levels, leading to rationing, which is something I'm sure you wouldn't want to see.

 

But hey, if you want to take less for all your hard work (not only now, but getting to this point) and risk, be my guest. I'll gladly take your portion, rather than giving it to some 3rd party. As for me, I (as an anesthesiologist) already contribute to charity when I get roughly 1/3 reimbursement for Medicare/Medicaid patients, who almost invariably are the sickest patients I see and thus increase my risk exposure, compared to privately insured patients, and often-times get stiffed on that paltry bill.

almost invariably?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

AARP (getting them to sell out their constituents so that they could continue to sell Medi-gap policies)

 

 

FYI: AARP doesn't sell medigap policies. United HealthCare does, and they pay handsomely to use AARP's name.

[Alaska Darin]

Hence the looming critical shortage of primary care docs in the us.

Bull ****. The looming critical shortage of primary care docs has everything to do with the fact that the cost of med school in the United States has grown 10 fold in the last 20 years, greatly outpacing inflation. Welcome to government involvement in the education "system". Single payer isn't going to close that gap, dude who sees 85% Medicare patients.

 

I read a doctoral thesis last week written about the disgusting practices of the higher education system in this country. The average dude graduating with a Bachelor's Degree this year won't pay off his note until he's 38. Imagine what that means to someone facing med school.

[Magox]

i see a combined total of 85% medicare + medicaid. avg. pt load per week = 110. and yeah, it doesn't surprise me that an anesthesiologist won't be happy with the changes a comin. their will be winners and losers with reform and specialty and subspecialty providers won't be celebrating victory. primary care docs in the single payer british system actually make more than their us counterparts (on average). Hence the looming critical shortage of primary care docs in the us. i'm satisfied with what i earn now so any more would be a bonus. btw, i haven't sherked my "administrative responsibilities. i'm one of those dinosaur docs that actually hung a shingle and own my own business. but this is more about universal, equitable access to care than it is business. the best route there is single payer

I have a client out of Canada who is a primary care physician. You know any idea of how many patients he sees a day? He told me that he receives $25 per patient from the government. That he has to ration his time and allots approximately 5-10 minutes per patient.

[birdog1960]

Bull ****. The looming critical shortage of primary care docs has everything to do with the fact that the cost of med school in the United States has grown 10 fold in the last 20 years, greatly outpacing inflation. Welcome to government involvement in the education "system". Single payer isn't going to close that gap, dude who sees 85% Medicare patients.

 

I read a doctoral thesis last week written about the disgusting practices of the higher education system in this country. The average dude graduating with a Bachelor's Degree this year won't pay off his note until he's 38. Imagine what that means to someone facing med school.

i'm all for educational subsidies to incentivize going into primary care. it won't be enough however. get ready to see midlevel providers when you complain of chest pain.

[Alaska Darin]

i'm all for educational subsidies to incentivize going into primary care. it won't be enough however. get ready to see midlevel providers when you complain of chest pain.

Education subsidies are a major part of the reason college continues to grow at a rate higher than inflation. Try again.

[IDBillzFan]

Bull ****. The looming critical shortage of primary care docs has everything to do with the fact that the cost of med school in the United States has grown 10 fold in the last 20 years, greatly outpacing inflation. Welcome to government involvement in the education "system". Single payer isn't going to close that gap, dude who sees 85% Medicare patients.

 

I read a doctoral thesis last week written about the disgusting practices of the higher education system in this country. The average dude graduating with a Bachelor's Degree this year won't pay off his note until he's 38. Imagine what that means to someone facing med school.

Yes, but that argument is all but over now because the federal government is now exclusively in charge of student loans. College is going to be much cheaper now that the government is in charge of determining who gets a loan.

[birdog1960]

Education subsidies are a major part of the reason college continues to grow at a rate higher than inflation. Try again.

no, you try again. how do you approach this looming shortage or do you not see a problem?