The QB competition is irrelevant

[Doc]

They're all supposed to.

I heard Wood and Bell will, but nothing about Green. Have a link?

[thewildrabbit]

All these QB threads we're seeing are pointless, imo.

The Bills were completely incapable of protecting the QB off the edges last year and with no significant upgrades will once again be completely incapable of protecting the QB off the edges this year. There's not a single QB on this planet who can be successful operating behind this Offensive Line and our crop of BList signal callers is no exception. I don't care who is anointed the starter because no matter which guy it is, he is going to struggle moving the offense until he is inevitably hurt and then replaced by the next guy who will be dealing with the same set of insurmountable circumstances.

The front office doesn't see any of these guys as a long term solution to the position, which is part of the reason they chose to primarily address the defense this offseason. Addressing the OT and TE positions will come in the next step of the rebuild when they will be looking for a QB that they can hang their hats on.

So we can go round and round arguing about who's the better QB, but the fact is that it doesn't matter one lick who the Bills starting QB is this year. Whoever it is will only be the #1 for a relatively short time, serving as no more than an interchangeable part until the Bills bring in the guy they plan to go forward with.

Here here

 

I've been saying the very same thing since they drafted Maybin... then they didn't draft a tackle till round 5 this past draft.

 

They will continue to stink until they draft some top tackles.

[Simon]

Some folks seem to think we need a QB that can run well and I suppose they have a good point.

Fitz runs well, but his accuracy is horrible, Brohm and Edwards on the other hand ......is part of the reason why I really like Brian brohm, great touch on the ball.

So your response to a thread about the irrelevancy of the QB competition is your 1500th post on the intricacies of the QB competition? Seriously?

 

How can the FO (or anyone else) even evaluate these QBs without having first put them in a position with at least a chance to be successful?

There's a lot more film on all of these guys than just last season.

 

I don't disagree with you. That said, how do we explain how Aaron Rogers managed to survive behind that disaster of a line in Green Bay last year -- a line with at least as many injuries as the Bills, and got Rogers sacked 50 times, most in the league -- yet he was still able to post amazing stats with a 103.2 passer rating?

Rogers sack numbers are primarily a result of his propensity to hold the ball for an abnormally long time. The GB OLine wasn't good, but it wasn't nearly as atrocious as the Bills'. We had 0 legitimate NFL OT's on the roster last year; it was so bad we were trying to sign guys from that same Packer's squad that weren't even good enough to get on the field for them. I don't see this year as being much, if any better.

 

And another thing - why does the FO get a free pass around here for "choosing to address the defense this offseason"? Since when did it become ok to focus on one side of the ball, and postpone actually winning games until some later season? Wtf?

There was simply nobody available at the OT or QB positions, in either the draft or freeagency, that the FO felt was worth what they would have had to give up. But there were guys available at key Defensive positions that the FO considered good value.

 

You guys really thought the line played poorly against Washington? I thought they did pretty well. They ran the ball well and pass protected Ok with 3 starters out of the lineup.

 

I wouldn't pass judgement on the line until Bell, Wood, and Green are starting then you guys can harp on it.

Who said anything about Washington? I didn't even see that scrimmage and even if I had I wouldn't be fool enough to base my opinion on some action from the first preseason scrimmage.

 

You have to be kidding me. ....They could have had anquoin bouldin, jamal charles, jimmy clausen or mcnabb and been competitive, while they continued to rebuild, know why they didn't? MONEY-Too Cheap or too dumb, take your pick.

You're the one that's got to be kidding. They could have wasted picks and cash on all 4 of those guys and it would have had little effect on this team.

 

Should have signed Colt Brennan once Washington let him go, he would have been had for dirt cheap and automatically would have been the #2 IMO. We don't have our 2011 starting QB on this roster.

I like June Jones and would have no problem with Brennan being added to the mix. That being said, it wouldn't make a lick of difference this year.

[mpl6876]

I just wonder how many of us are wishing the Bills made a move to acquire another QB? I for one am in that boat. My stance has been since day one, I would have drafted Clausen or picked up Campbell. Wondering if anyone has changed their mind on this topic? I suspect those who didn't want either are still thinking that way? Are you thinking any other QB's? Are you thinking one of our QB's is going to be adequate?

[Bill from NYC]

I just wonder how many of us are wishing the Bills made a move to acquire another QB? I for one am in that boat. My stance has been since day one, I would have drafted Clausen or picked up Campbell. Wondering if anyone has changed their mind on this topic? I suspect those who didn't want either are still thinking that way? Are you thinking any other QB's? Are you thinking one of our QB's is going to be adequate?

 

The truth is that next year appears to be a much better quarterback class. Now, couple this with the fact that the Bills will almost certainly have a very early pick, to the extent that picking first isn't out of the realm of possibility. Who would you rather have, Clausen or Mallet/Locker, etc.?

 

I don't excuse the Spiller selection mind you, at least not yet. But, if anybody thought Clausen was all that, he wouldn't have lasted that long. Teams jump all over talented quarterbacks.

[mpl6876]

The truth is that next year appears to be a much better quarterback class. Now, couple this with the fact that the Bills will almost certainly have a very early pick, to the extent that picking first isn't out of the realm of possibility. Who would you rather have, Clausen or Mallet/Locker, etc.?

 

I don't excuse the Spiller selection mind you, at least not yet. But, if anybody thought Clausen was all that, he wouldn't have lasted that long. Teams jump all over talented quarterbacks.

 

Bill, thanks for the reply. With all due respect, I don't think you answered the question. You answered my question with a question.

 

Getting Lockler or Mallet really is all speculation. Nobody knows what is going to happen. For example, injuries, Bills draft position, Bills draft mentality, they play poorly, Etc... It is not a question any of us can answer with certainty. Too many variables. No varibles in that we could have aquired Clausen or Campbell.

 

Lastly, flawed logic implying that Clausen will not be successful or isn't that good because everyone passed on him. Using that same logic, then you would say a QB picked ealry in the first round is going to be a successful QB?

[Guest dog14787]

So your response to a thread about the irrelevancy of the QB competition is your 1500th post on the intricacies of the QB competition? Seriously?

 

With all due respect,

 

Questioning the number of QB threads created on a football forum debating the most important position on the team?

 

seriously?

 

What would you like me to say Simon, because the lack of protection is obvious so whats your point?

 

 

If begging for help on the O-line would accomplish something I'm prepared to start begging...

[timba]

All these QB threads we're seeing are pointless, imo.

The Bills were completely incapable of protecting the QB off the edges last year and with no significant upgrades will once again be completely incapable of protecting the QB off the edges this year. There's not a single QB on this planet who can be successful operating behind this Offensive Line and our crop of BList signal callers is no exception. I don't care who is anointed the starter because no matter which guy it is, he is going to struggle moving the offense until he is inevitably hurt and then replaced by the next guy who will be dealing with the same set of insurmountable circumstances.

The front office doesn't see any of these guys as a long term solution to the position, which is part of the reason they chose to primarily address the defense this offseason. Addressing the OT and TE positions will come in the next step of the rebuild when they will be looking for a QB that they can hang their hats on.

So we can go round and round arguing about who's the better QB, but the fact is that it doesn't matter one lick who the Bills starting QB is this year. Whoever it is will only be the #1 for a relatively short time, serving as no more than an interchangeable part until the Bills bring in the guy they plan to go forward with.

 

Indeed the line is the key!

 

People seem to be throwing around the sacks stat as if it means everything. Nobody can tell me you didn't see our QB's running for their lives in that first preseason game. How many stats did the Skins have? zero. Tons of pressure. All game except for the first drive and towards the end of the game. I guess it's just a coincidence that during that time the offense looked alright.

 

We may have been running with most of our backup O-line, but we all know that Kirk Chambers has seen some pretty significant time the last couple years and Meredith got more than his feet wet last year. If these are the guys on the roster then they had better be able to perform. No excuses.

[Bill from NYC]

Bill, thanks for the reply. With all due respect, I don't think you answered the question. You answered my question with a question.

 

Getting Lockler or Mallet really is all speculation. Nobody knows what is going to happen. For example, injuries, Bills draft position, Bills draft mentality, they play poorly, Etc... It is not a question any of us can answer with certainty. Too many variables. No varibles in that we could have aquired Clausen or Campbell.

 

Lastly, flawed logic implying that Clausen will not be successful or isn't that good because everyone passed on him. Using that same logic, then you would say a QB picked ealry in the first round is going to be a successful QB?

 

OK...I will try to be more specific.

 

I do see your points above. Does this sway me towards wishing that the Bills selected Clausen? No it does not. Going into the 2010 draft, the Bills were a small, weak team on both sides of the ball. After taking Spiller (to sell tickets imo) they decided to rebuild the defense, which I think was a smart move.

 

I am thinking that with or without Clausen, the Bills would be a poor football team. What they needed were a pair of Ofensive Tackles who belong in the NFL but I digress. I would have liked a trade down for extra picks. At least we could have addressed the RT spot AND acquired another player.

 

Obviously, getting picked early doesn't guarantee success. As a matter of fact, I would have preferred Colt McCoy over Clausen. That said, look at the you tube film of Mallett. The kid can throw 20 yard check downs. He tosses 50 yard passes without really stepping into the throw.

 

Much of what this board consists of is speculation. I am of the opinion that unfortunately, the Bills will pick very early next season. The good news is that they will (again, imo) be in a position to lock up a real blue chip QB or LT. And, I think they will have access to much better prospects than Clausen.

 

Once again, jmo.

[BUFFALOTONE]

All these QB threads we're seeing are pointless, imo.

The Bills were completely incapable of protecting the QB off the edges last year and with no significant upgrades will once again be completely incapable of protecting the QB off the edges this year. There's not a single QB on this planet who can be successful operating behind this Offensive Line and our crop of BList signal callers is no exception. I don't care who is anointed the starter because no matter which guy it is, he is going to struggle moving the offense until he is inevitably hurt and then replaced by the next guy who will be dealing with the same set of insurmountable circumstances.

The front office doesn't see any of these guys as a long term solution to the position, which is part of the reason they chose to primarily address the defense this offseason. Addressing the OT and TE positions will come in the next step of the rebuild when they will be looking for a QB that they can hang their hats on.

So we can go round and round arguing about who's the better QB, but the fact is that it doesn't matter one lick who the Bills starting QB is this year. Whoever it is will only be the #1 for a relatively short time, serving as no more than an interchangeable part until the Bills bring in the guy they plan to go forward with.

 

Simon,

 

I agree with a lot of the above, BUT Trent does miss a lot of open WRs simply because he either does not see them or is gun shy in throwing the ball in small windows. Granted he may be gun shy from getting the crap kicked out of him for the past few years but to a point he has to progress and he just has not done that. He is one hell of a practice player and looks like Brady during pre-game warm ups but it doesn't account for **** when the bullets fly. He is mentally shot as a pro QB, that is something he has to work through.

 

Yes the OL is terrible, if it makes everyone feel better we were missing 3 starters the other night (I know me neither). But Aaron Rodgers got sacked more than any QB last year and had probably the same if not worse OL than we did. But AR stood in there fearlessly and made some unbelievable throws. He does have a better arm than Trent obviously but more than that he doesn't care about the guy bearing down in him, Trent does and panics and forces a ball into the dirt or a 3 yard gain on 3rd down when we need 7 yards.

 

He is not the guy, I hope our front office sees that and have their sites on a future QB.

[thewildrabbit]

From what I saw of the Bills offense on Friday night....it looked basically the same offense we have seen since forever. What I expected from a new offensive minded HC was to crap-can the offensive playbook like Mike Shanhan would have, and have the players learn an entire new offensive system.

 

From what I saw that didn't happen, the Bills ran the same old system, same plays only with a different language. It now makes sense to me as to why Chan Gailey is keeping the incumbent QB's and didn't draft a Clausen-McCoy et al. Clearly he thinks he can coach up the current players to a higher level and is taking the very same road that Jauron took in thinking continuity.

 

What he doesn't understand is that although AVP and Turk Schonert were both very inexperienced at play calls and game planning, they both were very experienced at understanding the QB position and coaching that position.

 

From hearing Gailey talk he is under the impression that Dick Jauron's teams lacked discipline and didn't play hard. On the contrary the Bills players played very tough and hard for Jauron, if anything the problem with his teams is they lacked great schemes, both offensive and defensive.

 

From the one game we all saw Chan Gailey didn't bring anything new and innovative into the stale old podunk offense us fans have had to endure since the Kim Kelly-Ted Marchibroda era. Before Friday's Game I was slightly uncertain as to whether or not Spiller would have the impact Gailey boasted he would have in making that O line better simply by adding a blazing RB. Now I'm almost 100% certain his offenses won't succeed until they upgrade both tackle positions, and forget about adding any new QB until they do.

 

If you think I'm wrong...take a long hard look at the Rams this season with a 50 million dollar guaranteed QB in Sam Bradford, money that team can flush if he gets severely injured.

 

 

 

Lastly, go back and look at what success Gailey had at Kansas City running that offense...then you will know what to expect this year from the Bills.

[Guest dog14787]

From what I saw of the Bills offense on Friday night....it looked basically the same offense we have seen since forever. What I expected from a new offensive minded HC was to crap-can the offensive playbook like Mike Shanhan would have, and have the players learn an entire new offensive system.

 

From what I saw that didn't happen, the Bills ran the same old system, same plays only with a different language. It now makes sense to me as to why Chan Gailey is keeping the incumbent QB's and didn't draft a Clausen-McCoy et al. Clearly he thinks he can coach up the current players to a higher level and is taking the very same road that Jauron took in thinking continuity.

 

What he doesn't understand is that although AVP and Turk Schonert were both very inexperienced at play calls and game planning, they both were very experienced at understanding the QB position and coaching that position.

 

From hearing Gailey talk he is under the impression that Dick Jauron's teams lacked discipline and didn't play hard. On the contrary the Bills players played very tough and hard for Jauron, if anything the problem with his teams is they lacked great schemes, both offensive and defensive.

 

From the one game we all saw Chan Gailey didn't bring anything new and innovative into the stale old podunk offense us fans have had to endure since the Kim Kelly-Ted Marchibroda era. Before Friday's Game I was slightly uncertain as to whether or not Spiller would have the impact Gailey boasted he would have in making that O line better simply by adding a blazing RB. Now I'm almost 100% certain his offenses won't succeed until they upgrade both tackle positions, and forget about adding any new QB until they do.

 

If you think I'm wrong...take a long hard look at the Rams this season with a 50 million dollar guaranteed QB in Sam Bradford, money that team can flush if he gets severely injured.

 

 

 

Lastly, go back and look at what success Gailey had at Kansas City running that offense...then you will know what to expect this year from the Bills.

 

 

With all due respect rabbit, we averaged over 8 yards a carry on the ground, while missing our best interior linemen. Its obvious Gailey knows how to run the football,

 

and its something to build on...

[Doc]

I just wonder how many of us are wishing the Bills made a move to acquire another QB? I for one am in that boat. My stance has been since day one, I would have drafted Clausen or picked up Campbell. Wondering if anyone has changed their mind on this topic? I suspect those who didn't want either are still thinking that way? Are you thinking any other QB's? Are you thinking one of our QB's is going to be adequate?

Outside of Bradford, there were no highly-rated QB's, as judged by the draft positions of the other QB's taken (outside of Tebow, who was a reach by the Broncos). The Bills tried to trade for McNabb. Who else should they have pursued?

 

But that's water under the bridge. I'm ready to see what Brohm, and then Brown, can do.

From what I saw of the Bills offense on Friday night....it looked basically the same offense we have seen since forever. What I expected from a new offensive minded HC was to crap-can the offensive playbook like Mike Shanhan would have, and have the players learn an entire new offensive system.

 

From what I saw that didn't happen, the Bills ran the same old system, same plays only with a different language. It now makes sense to me as to why Chan Gailey is keeping the incumbent QB's and didn't draft a Clausen-McCoy et al. Clearly he thinks he can coach up the current players to a higher level and is taking the very same road that Jauron took in thinking continuity.

 

What he doesn't understand is that although AVP and Turk Schonert were both very inexperienced at play calls and game planning, they both were very experienced at understanding the QB position and coaching that position.

 

From hearing Gailey talk he is under the impression that Dick Jauron's teams lacked discipline and didn't play hard. On the contrary the Bills players played very tough and hard for Jauron, if anything the problem with his teams is they lacked great schemes, both offensive and defensive.

 

From the one game we all saw Chan Gailey didn't bring anything new and innovative into the stale old podunk offense us fans have had to endure since the Kim Kelly-Ted Marchibroda era. Before Friday's Game I was slightly uncertain as to whether or not Spiller would have the impact Gailey boasted he would have in making that O line better simply by adding a blazing RB. Now I'm almost 100% certain his offenses won't succeed until they upgrade both tackle positions, and forget about adding any new QB until they do.

 

If you think I'm wrong...take a long hard look at the Rams this season with a 50 million dollar guaranteed QB in Sam Bradford, money that team can flush if he gets severely injured.

 

 

 

Lastly, go back and look at what success Gailey had at Kansas City running that offense...then you will know what to expect this year from the Bills.

You could tell all this from the first pre-season game? Impressive.

[Thurman#1]

I don't disagree with you. That said, how do we explain how Aaron Rogers managed to survive behind that disaster of a line in Green Bay last year -- a line with at least as many injuries as the Bills, and got Rogers sacked 50 times, most in the league -- yet he was still able to post amazing stats with a 103.2 passer rating?

 

 

 

The Green Bay line was a lot better than the Bills line. Quite a few of the sacks on Rodgers last year were the result of Rodgers holding the ball too long.

 

Looking at PFF last year, most of the GB OLs were average, with one very good and one somewhat below average. Whereas, except for Butler and Incognito, neither of whom played more than three games, none of our guys was even close to average. Wood was the best, and was still well below average.

 

 

But Aaron Rodgers got sacked more than any QB last year and had probably the same if not worse OL than we did. But AR stood in there fearlessly and made some unbelievable throws. He does have a better arm than Trent obviously but more than that he doesn't care about the guy bearing down in him, Trent does and panics and forces a ball into the dirt or a 3 yard gain on 3rd down when we need 7 yards.

 

 

I'm not defending Trent, but again, the Green Bay line was a lot better than Buffalo's. A lot better.

[thewildrabbit]

Simon,

 

I agree with a lot of the above, BUT Trent does miss a lot of open WRs simply because he either does not see them or is gun shy in throwing the ball in small windows. Granted he may be gun shy from getting the crap kicked out of him for the past few years but to a point he has to progress and he just has not done that. He is one hell of a practice player and looks like Brady during pre-game warm ups but it doesn't account for **** when the bullets fly. He is mentally shot as a pro QB, that is something he has to work through.

 

Yes the OL is terrible, if it makes everyone feel better we were missing 3 starters the other night (I know me neither). But Aaron Rodgers got sacked more than any QB last year and had probably the same if not worse OL than we did. But AR stood in there fearlessly and made some unbelievable throws. He does have a better arm than Trent obviously but more than that he doesn't care about the guy bearing down in him, Trent does and panics and forces a ball into the dirt or a 3 yard gain on 3rd down when we need 7 yards.

 

He is not the guy, I hope our front office sees that and have their sites on a future QB.

 

Not for nothing, how many concussions has Aaron Rodgers endured playing for the Packers?

 

 

It is also like comparing night to day in comparing Buffalo's offense to Green Bay's... The Packers have a very bright innovative offensive mind in Mike McCarthy and his OC, plus they run a great scheme. The Packers play an enhanced version of the "West Coast"offense in that they pass first and run deeper passing routes. The Packers have one of the very best receiving corps in the NFL along with a decent O line and running game.

 

Look at the difference in the Packers early in the year and late in the year when they didn't have their experienced Left Tackle, the team lost a bunch of games without him. Then once he returned from an injury the team started winning games again. Yeah, the left tackle is that important.

 

Besides, Rodgers was able to sit on the bench for 4 years learning his craft while watching the legend Brett Favre play. Edwards like many other Bills QB's were thrown into the fray and expected to carry the team from day one, the running game can't make a first down so they expect the young inexperienced QB to make first downs and win for them.

[Thurman#1]

You have to be kidding me. Nix F'd up the team by not addressing the OL, QB, WR positions this year. Thre were plenty of free agents to help all these positions. They left the fans with vomit in their mouths this year and I have no confidence this organization knows how to fix it. Any idiot would know you can't go into the season with the worst tackles, worst QB in the NFL and be competitive. They could have had anquoin bouldin, jamal charles, jimmy clausen or mcnabb and been competitive, while they continued to rebuild, know why they didn't? MONEY-Too Cheap or too dumb, take your pick.

 

 

He screwed up the team for this year. And that's not a bad thing in the long run.

 

Get used to this strategy, they've said again and again that they're going to build through the draft and fill in with a few FAs, but not guys at the end of their contracts, and not expensive guys. If you don't like that strategy, by all means dodge off the boards, and preferably turn off your TV on Sundays for the next three years or so, because that's the way it's going to be. We'd rather not hear you moan for three years about something everybody knows will happen.

 

And it's the same strategy that has worked for the most successful teams in football, over and over, so it's not a bad thing. In the long run. In the short run, not so good, but that will make our draft spot better next year.

[timba]

From what I saw of the Bills offense on Friday night....it looked basically the same offense we have seen since forever. What I expected from a new offensive minded HC was to crap-can the offensive playbook like Mike Shanhan would have, and have the players learn an entire new offensive system.

 

From what I saw that didn't happen, the Bills ran the same old system, same plays only with a different language. It now makes sense to me as to why Chan Gailey is keeping the incumbent QB's and didn't draft a Clausen-McCoy et al. Clearly he thinks he can coach up the current players to a higher level and is taking the very same road that Jauron took in thinking continuity.

 

What he doesn't understand is that although AVP and Turk Schonert were both very inexperienced at play calls and game planning, they both were very experienced at understanding the QB position and coaching that position.

 

From hearing Gailey talk he is under the impression that Dick Jauron's teams lacked discipline and didn't play hard. On the contrary the Bills players played very tough and hard for Jauron, if anything the problem with his teams is they lacked great schemes, both offensive and defensive.

 

From the one game we all saw Chan Gailey didn't bring anything new and innovative into the stale old podunk offense us fans have had to endure since the Kim Kelly-Ted Marchibroda era. Before Friday's Game I was slightly uncertain as to whether or not Spiller would have the impact Gailey boasted he would have in making that O line better simply by adding a blazing RB. Now I'm almost 100% certain his offenses won't succeed until they upgrade both tackle positions, and forget about adding any new QB until they do.

 

If you think I'm wrong...take a long hard look at the Rams this season with a 50 million dollar guaranteed QB in Sam Bradford, money that team can flush if he gets severely injured.

 

 

 

Lastly, go back and look at what success Gailey had at Kansas City running that offense...then you will know what to expect this year from the Bills.

 

From what Chan said he was going to run a lot of two back sets with Lynch and Jackson but unfortunately those early injuries really stalled that plan. I'm not upset with what the offense was trying to do as much as I am upset with how they were doing it. 1/10 on third down conversions. You'll never win like that.

[thewildrabbit]

With all due respect rabbit, we averaged over 8 yards a carry on the ground, while missing our best interior linemen. Its obvious Gailey knows how to run the football,

 

and its something to build on...

The Bills already had a decent running game under Jauron as several posters here have pointed to me the last 6 mo, while proclaiming all the team needed was a QB change.

 

The Bills were 16th overall in rushing last season and 30th in passing offense, and 27th in scoring.

 

The Colts were the worst team in the NFL last season in rushing offense at 32, next was San Diego at 31, The Colts went 14-2 and the Chargers went 13-3...The NFL is now a passing league as the Colts were #2 in passing and the Chargers #5 in passing offense.

 

While I'm all for a dominate running attack like the Ravens and Jets had last year, the team won't win unless they can convert 3rd and long.

[thewildrabbit]

From what Chan said he was going to run a lot of two back sets with Lynch and Jackson but unfortunately those early injuries really stalled that plan. I'm not upset with what the offense was trying to do as much as I am upset with how they were doing it. 1/10 on third down conversions. You'll never win like that.

I was thinking the same thing as the Bills lost both Jackson and Lynch to injuries, and when they went down it screwed the running game and protections.

 

But then again isn't that what an offensive minded HC was supposed to do, make the offensive passing game better so they can convert those 3rd downs?

[timba]

I was thinking the same thing as the Bills lost both Jackson and Lynch to injuries, and when they went down it screwed the running game and protections.

 

But then again isn't that what an offensive minded HC was supposed to do, make the offensive passing game better so they can convert those 3rd downs?

 

Stop making it harder to come up with excuses please. Thanks