Kelly the Dog Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 They may not be consistently excellent but some can consistently play much better than others, some can consistently play a lot better than others. A better than average QB hits that wide open bomb to Stevie Johnson 80-90% of the time. An average QB is significantly less. Trent seems to be an average QB. But if you make 2-3 substantial plays a game, the entire game is different. The Bills hitting that bomb would have made a substantial difference in the game, in Trent's game, in the defense against us, in the coaches and players and fans confidence in him. It's not unlike Losman's miss in the Denver opener a few years ago. He HAS to hit that pass the few opportunities this team allows him. He had the time and the guy open and he just missed the throw. That one play could have cost him his job, and those 1-2 passes a game a QB must hit makes a huge difference regardless of the horrid line play, and perhaps even more important because of the horrid line play.
Bill from NYC Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 All of this remains true and is a latent admission that 2010 will be a rebuilding season. OTOH, how does a team begin a rebuild without the QB, rookie or proven veteran acquired via trade or UFA? They've started on defense with guys like Troup and Carrington. But offensively, it's still a steep climb in that they need OT's and a QB. No it doesn't matter who of either Edwards, Edward, or Brohm starts. They'll all see time this season anyway, unless one is cut for Brown. Absolutely true, because they are going to get slaughtered. All 4 of them. At this point I think that Fitz has the greatest chance to win 2 or 3 games simply because he can run away from trouble, but he too will get plastered. As always, it comes back to drafting. Bulaga went at #23 in round 1. Before the draft, I projectd him to play RT. They Bills could have picked up quite a bit for trading that far down. True, there would be no Left Tackle on the roster, but at least they would have filled another spot on the OL AND obtained at least another 2nd round pick. Instead, they were hell bent on a part time running back. The one constant through all of these asinine selections has been Mr. Wilson. Some will view this as a declaration of hate. It isn't. I respect Mr. Wilson very much, but by getting "involved" (his words after TD), he stymies this team from building in a manner that can succeed. Mr. Wilson can make money in his sleep at the age of 92. What he cannot do is build a good football team.
Guest dog14787 Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 They may not be consistently excellent but some can consistently play much better than others, some can consistently play a lot better than others. A better than average QB hits that wide open bomb to Stevie Johnson 80-90% of the time. An average QB is significantly less. Trent seems to be an average QB. But if you make 2-3 substantial plays a game, the entire game is different. The Bills hitting that bomb would have made a substantial difference in the game, in Trent's game, in the defense against us, in the coaches and players and fans confidence in him. It's not unlike Losman's miss in the Denver opener a few years ago. He HAS to hit that pass the few opportunities this team allows him. He had the time and the guy open and he just missed the throw. That one play could have cost him his job, and those 1-2 passes a game a QB must hit makes a huge difference regardless of the horrid line play, and perhaps even more important because of the horrid line play. Trent has been hitting Evans deep in practice on a regular basis (again today for 45 yards), hopefully it will start transferring over to game day. I agree, hitting Johnson deep would have changed everyone's perspective/outlook,
uncle flap Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 They may not be consistently excellent but some can consistently play much better than others, some can consistently play a lot better than others. A better than average QB hits that wide open bomb to Stevie Johnson 80-90% of the time. An average QB is significantly less. Trent seems to be an average QB. But if you make 2-3 substantial plays a game, the entire game is different. The Bills hitting that bomb would have made a substantial difference in the game, in Trent's game, in the defense against us, in the coaches and players and fans confidence in him. It's not unlike Losman's miss in the Denver opener a few years ago. He HAS to hit that pass the few opportunities this team allows him. He had the time and the guy open and he just missed the throw. That one play could have cost him his job, and those 1-2 passes a game a QB must hit makes a huge difference regardless of the horrid line play, and perhaps even more important because of the horrid line play. this is the only reason why i still retain the faintest of hope for trent. as much as he sucks, if he is able to just get a little better, and make one or two more plays a game, the offense as a whole becomes a much stronger unit. however, trent seems intent on refusing to live up to the potential that made him the #1 recruit coming out of high school and had bill walsh singing his praises. i still hope chan has something up his sleeve to help our qbs succeed, or at least minimize their shortcomings. i wonder how much it would cost to get tony robbins to come to OBD and convince trent to let his nuts hang...
In-A-Gadda-Levitre Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 Trent has been hitting Evans deep in practice on a regular basis (again today for 45 yards), hopefully it will start transferring over to game day. I agree, hitting Johnson deep would have changed everyone's outlook, that, in a nutshell, is the problem with Trent... He plays well in practice and is noticeably better than the other QBs. However, once the defense brings the heat, he wilts. I guess it's possible to overcome that, and certainly would be helped by better protection, but it's in his head and he's played that way since the last concussion.
beggar13 Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 Michael Vick wouldn't be a bad choice to run for his life behind this line. Philly won't be parting with him now though. Vick got embarrassed on Pros VS Joes. NO THANKS!!
Guest dog14787 Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 that, in a nutshell, is the problem with Trent... He plays well in practice and is noticeably better than the other QBs. However, once the defense brings the heat, he wilts. I guess it's possible to overcome that, and certainly would be helped by better protection, but it's in his head and he's played that way since the last concussion. Good timing , going through reads properly, looking off safeties all go hand in hand with good protection, and without it a QB's concentration/timing is effected in my opinion.
FlutieFlake Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 The O-line situation has many folks, myself included, wondering the same thing. While I do believe a change in philosophy and proper play calling will have a positive overall effect, not addressing the big hole at LT seems somewhat odd/irresponsible in my opinion. Why would you want to have such a huge question mark on a position that is arguably one of the most important ones in Football. I believe the answer to the question of why the Bills didn't aggresively pursue FA's in the offseason is simply that they didn't want to end up paying players big bucks when they knew that a "lockout" is most likely looming over the league next season. Alot of other teams did exactly the same thing. Can you say "collusion"? Another factor was that alot of possible FA's ended up being RFA's because of the current CBA. And then there was the "Mike Williams" factor. Remember how we were told at the time that he was such a fantastic pick coming from a background where his Dad was a strict no-nonsense military man. He was basically labled as a "can't miss" kind of pick, yet look how that turned out. And Bryant McKinnie the other Big name tackle that same year had the reputation for being lazy, and the subsequent "Love Boat" incident that he became involved in.
Gugny Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 You guys really thought the line played poorly against Washington? I thought they did pretty well. They ran the ball well and pass protected Ok with 3 starters out of the lineup. I wouldn't pass judgement on the line until Bell, Wood, and Green are starting then you guys can harp on it. +1. First game of preseason. Chill.
4BillsintheBurgh Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 sadly, he's not likely to be very pleased in many post game interviews. I'm just happy to see some emotion in those post game interviews.
Alphadawg7 Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 Trent has been hitting Evans deep in practice on a regular basis (again today for 45 yards), hopefully it will start transferring over to game day. I agree, hitting Johnson deep would have changed everyone's outlook, You mean in practice where guys aren't going to hit him? Funny how he always seem to hit deeper balls and stands in the pocket in practice every year then goes out into the games and checks down on 3rd and 13 for a 3 yard pass to Lynch even when there was no QB pressure on that play... So talk to me when Trent starts throwing medium to deep passes in games and doing so accurately
Guest dog14787 Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 You mean in practice where guys aren't going to hit him? Funny how he always seem to hit deeper balls and stands in the pocket in practice every year then goes out into the games and checks down on 3rd and 13 for a 3 yard pass to Lynch even when there was no QB pressure on that play... So talk to me when Trent starts throwing medium to deep passes in games and doing so accurately Every notice how that coincides with not getting the proper protection TE needs to stand in there and make the throws. Funny how that works... Gailey recently : " in order for the passing to get better, the protection has to get better. Nobody can throw it laying on their back or running for their life back there.”'
Alphadawg7 Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 Every notice how that coincides with not getting the proper protection TE needs to stand in there and make the throws. Funny how that works... Hate to break it to you but he had zero pressure on that checkdown. Lynch ran a short route and Trent checked down so fast that he hit lynch in full stride in his route which was before our WRs could even finish running their routes into first down territory... He is bad even when he has time...just curious, whats your reason for him not executing on those plays? If Trent was effective when he had time and struggled when under pressure, you would have a leg to stand on. But Trent is not effective when the O Line holds up on a play and gives him time...in fact, he still very often checks down and quickly on the play. I have never seen a QB (a starting QB at least) give up on a play as quickly as he does.
Bill from NYC Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 Hate to break it to you but he had zero pressure on that checkdown. Lynch ran a short route and Trent checked down so fast that he hit lynch in full stride in his route which was before our WRs could even finish running their routes into first down territory... He is bad even when he has time...just curious, whats your reason for him not executing on those plays? If Trent was effective when he had time and struggled when under pressure, you would have a leg to stand on. But Trent is not effective when the O Line holds up on a play and gives him time...in fact, he still very often checks down and quickly on the play. I have never seen a QB (a starting QB at least) give up on a play as quickly as he does. Watch some film on Ryan Mallett.
Guest dog14787 Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 Hate to break it to you but he had zero pressure on that checkdown. Lynch ran a short route and Trent checked down so fast that he hit lynch in full stride in his route was before our WRs could even finish running their routes into first down territory... He is bad even when he has time...just curious, whats your reason for him not executing on those plays? Being out of practice, excited, first preseason game, new offense, I was expecting more , but I've decided to let the preseason play out before becoming to judgmental with the realization it make take some time for everything to start coming together.
UpperDeck Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 They could have had anquoin bouldin, jamal charles, jimmy clausen or mcnabb and been competitive, while they continued to rebuild, know why they didn't? MONEY-Too Cheap or too dumb, take your pick. There was no amount of money that was going to get them to come to Buffalo.
Doc Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 A QB and O-line complement each other. Adding Wood and Green will be a (major, given who was replacing them) difference, but not the difference. That will need to come from the QB position. I said in another thread I'd give Trent another start, assuming Wood and Green will be back, but also give him a quick hook. But I don't know if that's just spinning wheels.
Geno Smith's Arm Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 All these QB threads we're seeing are pointless, imo.The Bills were completely incapable of protecting the QB off the edges last year and with no significant upgrades will once again be completely incapable of protecting the QB off the edges this year. There's not a single QB on this planet who can be successful operating behind this Offensive Line and our crop of BList signal callers is no exception. I don't care who is anointed the starter because no matter which guy it is, he is going to struggle moving the offense until he is inevitably hurt and then replaced by the next guy who will be dealing with the same set of insurmountable circumstances. The front office doesn't see any of these guys as a long term solution to the position, which is part of the reason they chose to primarily address the defense this offseason. Addressing the OT and TE positions will come in the next step of the rebuild when they will be looking for a QB that they can hang their hats on. So we can go round and round arguing about who's the better QB, but the fact is that it doesn't matter one lick who the Bills starting QB is this year. Whoever it is will only be the #1 for a relatively short time, serving as no more than an interchangeable part until the Bills bring in the guy they plan to go forward with. The Bills suck. It's no secret. They need to improve at BOTH positions, and many others.
Fixxxer Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 You mean in practice where guys aren't going to hit him? Funny how he always seem to hit deeper balls and stands in the pocket in practice every year then goes out into the games and checks down on 3rd and 13 for a 3 yard pass to Lynch even when there was no QB pressure on that play...So talk to me when Trent starts throwing medium to deep passes in games and doing so accurately Please watch the replay of that play, Howard doesn't sustain his block, gets beat inside, making it impossible for any QB to step up, plant and fire a pass that can cover 10 yards in the air. And this happens with Edwards and Fitz alike, they have to improvise because more often than not they don't have a clean pocket to step up. One improvises with his feet and the other with a dump-off. Hopefully Wood, Bell and Green can play on Thursday.
BLZFAN4LIFE Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 Please watch the replay of that play, Howard doesn't sustain his block, gets beat inside, making it impossible for any QB to step up, plant and fire a pass that can cover 10 yards in the air. And this happens with Edwards and Fitz alike, they have to improvise because more often than not they don't have a clean pocket to step up. One improvises with his feet and the other with a dump-off. Hopefully Wood, Bell and Green can play on Thursday. They're all supposed to.
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