Aaron Maybin

[Red]

Again, there is simply a difference between him looking like crap and getting thrown around like a rag doll and the coaching braintrust benching him and the same shabby play and the coaching staff sticking with him.

 

They are investing valuable PT in him one assumes because they expect it to payoff.

 

One explanation for this is that the coaches are deranged and are just obviously wasting time in a move that will cost them their livelihoods and reps

 

OR

 

they see some fairly fundamental flaws (for example highly drafted from a quality football manufacturing outlet Ryan Denney simply could not be put on a football field playing against scrubs because he did not bend his knees properly at the point of a hit and thus could not get proper leverage and apply his big body and great strength.

 

With training however, he became a competent (though not a star at all pro.

 

The more us outside observers make a case that he looks horrendous out there simply makes even more of a case if true that the PT he has gotten means the braintrust sees a lot there and a potential for correcting it that MAY be phenomenal.

 

 

I think you're grasping at straws, and I would be interested to hear what your opinion is on keeping Trent at QB. Arguably, all of your points could be used with Trent, as well (though I feel Trent has shown atleast some signs of life to be worthy of one more shot at redemption).

 

To pin this on coaching is ridiculous. Or scheme. Granted, its the first preseason game, but when a rookie LT owns your supposed future stud pass rush OLB, not scheme-wise but p-h-y-s-i-c-a-l-l-y dominates him, then the same occurs with the second unit...its not coaching. Maybin was abused physically by rookies and second stringers.

 

IMO, from what I have seen in the past, is that the "braintrust" is giving Maybin his chance to show what he can do. Not as a developmental project, but as a last hoorah. The guy has done nothing to justify his outlandish contract or high draft status. He's been an embarrassment. He can't even get a good haircut. Just because he gets more playing time does not mean that he is necessarily being invested in for development. They might be saying that they've "seen everything they need to, he's not good enough, but let's give him the preseason to change our minds".

 

Let's also not forget that this is his second season with the team. He should be getting better. He should have gotten stronger, smarter, etc in the offseason, and should be showing some kind of improvement on the field. In other words, Trent Williams may be physically a better player than Maybin, but Maybin should have a bit more experience at this point to be able to teach Williams a little something. But Maybin was OWNED.

 

And the way he overextends himself and leans on offensive linemen when he is rushing, is silly. He is so off-balance, a skilled tackle would let Maybin take himself to the ground. He does have a great first step and initial rush, with long arms. Besides that, he's a big '0' at this point.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I was thinking the same thing. The speed is there, the guy is fast. I think the anouncer said it was the first time he had seen Maybin do a spin move(that was when he recorded the sack). Hopefully he can figure our more moves.

 

This is sad. These "moves" are not hard to develop. If you have watched a handful of football games, you could pretty much figure out how to do a spin, swin, bull rush, the "slap."

 

Maybin's problem, to me, is that he doesn't appear to have any of the right football instincts. e.g., for as little time as he's played, he's accumulated an alarming number of penalties.

[OldTimer1960]

1. Matthew Stafford (QB)

2. Jason Smith (T)

3. Tyson Jackson (DE)

4. Aaron Curry (LB)

5. Mark Sanchez (QB)

6. Andre Smith (T)

7. Darrius Heyward-Bey (WR)

8. Eugene Monroe (T)

9. BJ Raji (DT)

10. Michael Crabtree (WR)

11. Aaron Maybin (DE/LB)

12. Knowshon Moreno (HB)

 

There are more than a fair share of projects on this list IMO.

 

Thank you for the perspective. Some folks here think every top-10 pick is an immediate star for every other

team, but that the dumb Bills always F it up. Reality is that half the top 10 picks might be very good, one or

two great and half will struggle. I don't think Tyson Jackson, Andre Smith and Darrius Heyward-Bey are any

further along than Maybin - not saying that's great, but it does mean it isn't unique.

 

Also, IMHO, Maybin is no longer than undersized. He does still need to gain some strenght, but it is his

pass rush moves and leverage that I think need to be improved more. Few LBs are going to be able to

bull-rush an OT. Maybin's first half consisted of him always trying to beat the OT wide upfield. If you have

no counter move, most competent OTs can handle that no matter how fast the LB is. Maybin just started

some counter moves in the 2nd half, spin was the first.

 

Now, why that is such a mystery to an as good an athlete as Maybin appears to be is beyond me. But I

haven't written him completely off. He has talent and seems to work, so there may be hope.

[Red]

Thank you for the perspective. Some folks here think every top-10 pick is an immediate star for every other

team, but that the dumb Bills always F it up. Reality is that half the top 10 picks might be very good, one or

two great and half will struggle. I don't think Tyson Jackson, Andre Smith and Darrius Heyward-Bey are any

further along than Maybin - not saying that's great, but it does mean it isn't unique.

 

Also, IMHO, Maybin is no longer than undersized. He does still need to gain some strenght, but it is his

pass rush moves and leverage that I think need to be improved more. Few LBs are going to be able to

bull-rush an OT. Maybin's first half consisted of him always trying to beat the OT wide upfield. If you have

no counter move, most competent OTs can handle that no matter how fast the LB is. Maybin just started

some counter moves in the 2nd half, spin was the first.

 

Now, why that is such a mystery to an as good an athlete as Maybin appears to be is beyond me. But I

haven't written him completely off. He has talent and seems to work, so there may be hope.

 

Good points, and duly noted.

 

You would think that he would possess more skill at this point, though, as you mentioned. The bull-rush is just plain ridiculous. And he is so off balance and over extended doing that, I don't know why coach Sanders is not beating him silly until he learns how to counter.

 

But you are right on the projects on that list. Basically all of them need time.

 

I stand corrected.

[Gabe Northern]

Sure, Deano, he's quick, but he's playing way WAY too light. How much of that quickness does he maintain when finally gets up to a reasonable playing weight?

 

This is 100% correct. It is impossible to forecast how going from 235 to 260 would impact his quickness.

 

How lightning quick do you think a safety would look lined up as an edge pass rusher? Maybin is basically Taylor Mays playing OLB/DE.

[spartacus]

I could not agree more with Maybin not being able to play in the pro game at this point.

 

Here is a guy that was drafted so high, held out, etc, and has done nothing since. Worse than nothing, he showed absolutely no signs of improvement from last season, as he only looked somewhat proficient when he was playing the 'Skins 3rd stringers.

 

Against the 1st and 2nd teamers, he looked terrible.

 

Thanks, Jauron. When both Oher and Orakpo were available....

amazing how the fans continue to blame Dick for the crappy drafts, when the guy in charge of college scouting has failed miserably across multiple staffs - yet he remains employed, working part-time from Florida

[Magox]

I will say this, I am slightly more encouraged about Maybin now than I was before the game.

[Bob in STL]

I watched maybin very closely. He played the entire game which seemed odd and almost like a punishment.

 

In the first quarter, against the first string, Maybin played on 3rd down passing situation and he was easily blocked by Trent Williams, a rookie LT.

 

He made a mistakle on the roughing penalty and kept a drive alive. The Skins would have punted if not for his penalty. Instead they scored 6. We would have got the ball back with a 3-0 lead.

 

He made some plays in the 3rd quarter. He was getting run over by scrubs in the 4th quarter.

 

It has been pointed out that Maybin is very small. He does not appear to have the size and strength to play every down. Since he is only 22 he can get bigger. He may be two years away from being a very good player.

 

We passesd on Orakpo who looks like a monster. Hard to believe that pro scouts and our FO would miss the obvious age, size and maturity difference between Orakpo and Maybin. It looks like man versus boy to me.

[Hplarrm]

Straws are all that you, i, and all other sitting in front of the TV watching the game or in front of our computers have actually in terms of impacting this.

 

What I think the way this is playing out actually is that Gailey in terms of success and his understanding with Nr. Ralph gives all appearances of being on a two year plan to demonstrate he is turning around this aircraft carrier and likely on a 3 year plan to need to show objective results such as a winning record and make or at least compete seriously for the playoffs.

 

In this light, what this year is mostly going to be about is evaluation and teaching. Maybin getting a good very long look last night leads me to the guesstimate that the good news is they still think he is teachable. If they had made the decision already that Maybin was a Jauron mistake and a loss cause, then they would have easily gotten by with a quarter of play on his part and then attention could be turned to finding the next answer. Perhaps with OLBs, Kelsay, Ellison, and Batten all out they decided this was a good opportunity to test Maybins stamina.

 

Again regarding the physicality, this really smacks of the coaching staff looking to fix something difficult or hard to detect from watching the game being filmed for broadcast versus the game being filmed for evaluation. You really don't think that these are the same thing do you?

 

In regard to Trent, I think the play of the QBs on roster and acquisition strategies are items which firmly point toward a 2 year or more plan. The situation looks to me like the Bills may simply be looking to see if the catch lightening in a bottle from any of the 3 QBs. Its unlikely but so what as this unlikely choice is more likely than any of the injured rookie QBs in this draft.

 

My sense is that even though there appears to a bunch of better prospects in the next draft, even if they went 0-16 and took the best (probably Locker) the odds are that he turns out to produce as well as Peyton Manning in his first year and we are on a 3 year plan to merely on a 3 year plan to post a winning record (much less make the playoffs).

 

I hope we go FA to get our QB rather than waste time in the crapshoot known as the draft.

 

However the lengthy play strikes me as them working with improving him rather than them building a case to cut him. Half a game not only gives them ample time to evaluate but to show they have given him a fair shot.

 

I think you're grasping at straws, and I would be interested to hear what your opinion is on keeping Trent at QB. Arguably, all of your points could be used with Trent, as well (though I feel Trent has shown atleast some signs of life to be worthy of one more shot at redemption).

 

To pin this on coaching is ridiculous. Or scheme. Granted, its the first preseason game, but when a rookie LT owns your supposed future stud pass rush OLB, not scheme-wise but p-h-y-s-i-c-a-l-l-y dominates him, then the same occurs with the second unit...its not coaching. Maybin was abused physically by rookies and second stringers.

 

IMO, from what I have seen in the past, is that the "braintrust" is giving Maybin his chance to show what he can do. Not as a developmental project, but as a last hoorah. The guy has done nothing to justify his outlandish contract or high draft status. He's been an embarrassment. He can't even get a good haircut. Just because he gets more playing time does not mean that he is necessarily being invested in for development. They might be saying that they've "seen everything they need to, he's not good enough, but let's give him the preseason to change our minds".

 

Let's also not forget that this is his second season with the team. He should be getting better. He should have gotten stronger, smarter, etc in the offseason, and should be showing some kind of improvement on the field. In other words, Trent Williams may be physically a better player than Maybin, but Maybin should have a bit more experience at this point to be able to teach Williams a little something. But Maybin was OWNED.

 

And the way he overextends himself and leans on offensive linemen when he is rushing, is silly. He is so off-balance, a skilled tackle would let Maybin take himself to the ground. He does have a great first step and initial rush, with long arms. Besides that, he's a big '0' at this point.

[Mike in Syracuse]

Here's the thing I noticed about Maybin last night, he plays very spastically. What I mean is that is moves aren't calculated and he tends to run around the field like an ADD 12 year old who just had too much Mountain Dew. There is NO doubt that the kid has incredible speed and burst but he just needs to calm the hell down and play football. He reminds me of the kids I coach in basketball. They're great in practice and running drills but as soon as the game starts they loose their minds and feel like they have to do everything at double speed.

 

I will agree that he hasn't lived up to his draft spot but their clearly is talent in that skinny frame. He needs playing time and 30 more pounds. The potential is there, whether or not it's ever reached is anyone's guess.

 

One thing I don't understand though; the Bills have switched to a 3-4 yet on every play I see Maybin down in a 3-point stance lined up in the DE position. The kid needs room to run and room to hit gaps, wtf is he doing in a DE spot???

[Hplarrm]

Here's the thing I noticed about Maybin last night, he plays very spastically. What I mean is that is moves aren't calculated and he tends to run around the field like an ADD 12 year old who just had too much Mountain Dew. There is NO doubt that the kid has incredible speed and burst but he just needs to calm the hell down and play football. He reminds me of the kids I coach in basketball. They're great in practice and running drills but as soon as the game starts they loose their minds and feel like they have to do everything at double speed.

 

I will agree that he hasn't lived up to his draft spot but their clearly is talent in that skinny frame. He needs playing time and 30 more pounds. The potential is there, whether or not it's ever reached is anyone's guess.

 

One thing I don't understand though; the Bills have switched to a 3-4 yet on every play I see Maybin down in a 3-point stance lined up in the DE position. The kid needs room to run and room to hit gaps, wtf is he doing in a DE spot???

Perhaps there are two (or more) fairly fundamental things Maybin needs work on such as making sure he keeps proper leverage at the point of attack, using elemental pro moves not needed against weaker college talent like the spin move when engaging a bigger but plodding blocker and also getting up out of the stance.

 

If the coaches have him working on the first two issues and we will deal with the stance issue in practice or later he might have played from the three point stance he was used to in college rather than upright like an LB

.

 

Maybin may well be a bust. However it is simply stupid to draw that conclusion on one year and a pre-season game of play since 3 full seasons of play is often what is needed for a player to show his true stuff. True there should at least be some rational progress, but the fact is we have seen players like Moulds where it took a full two years of non-production before the perrenial Pro Bowler emerged. It is simply too early for anyone to declare a youngster like Maybin done.

 

Add to this that much of the analysis gleaned by us local yokels in our armchairs watching a TV feed is no where near a platform for true evaluation (and actually can give a false evaluation) and I think that the usual broad conclusions drawn on the internet may end up being correct but even if so it may well be dumb luck rather than incisive analysis.

 

I think that the opinions worth paying attention to on TSW are folks who clearly know that they do not know it all.

[billieve420]

Perhaps there are two (or more) fairly fundamental things Maybin needs work on such as making sure he keeps proper leverage at the point of attack, using elemental pro moves not needed against weaker college talent like the spin move when engaging a bigger but plodding blocker and also getting up out of the stance.

 

If the coaches have him working on the first two issues and we will deal with the stance issue in practice or later he might have played from the three point stance he was used to in college rather than upright like an LB

.

 

Maybin may well be a bust. However it is simply stupid to draw that conclusion on one year and a pre-season game of play since 3 full seasons of play is often what is needed for a player to show his true stuff. True there should at least be some rational progress, but the fact is we have seen players like Moulds where it took a full two years of non-production before the perrenial Pro Bowler emerged. It is simply too early for anyone to declare a youngster like Maybin done.

 

Add to this that much of the analysis gleaned by us local yokels in our armchairs watching a TV feed is no where near a platform for true evaluation (and actually can give a false evaluation) and I think that the usual broad conclusions drawn on the internet may end up being correct but even if so it may well be dumb luck rather than incisive analysis.

 

I think that the opinions worth paying attention to on TSW are folks who clearly know that they do not know it all.

 

Agree Maybin is running out there off balance and gets easily pushed aside due to poor leverage and overall technique. However, to place all the blame on this guy and make him the scapegoat doesn't hide the fact that the defense overall was brutal last night. Lack of pressure really hurt the secondary no one was making any plays that really stood out except maybe Kyle Williams. Man these LBs are slower than dirt and are unable to cover at all. I don't think Poz is going to make that big of a difference out there.

 

I figured the Offense would take their lumps this year but I was hoping for some sort of improvement with Gailey running things. I thought the defense would be better this year but you can't overlook the fact they are switching schemes and alot of people are learning new positions as well. #45 Moats looked terrible in coverage like he had cement in his cleats and there are going to definitely be growing pains on both sides of the ball. I think we will end up 4-12 or 5-11 this season. Hopefully, we get our franchise tackle and QB next year because this is going to be a long painful ride this season.

[The Big Cat]

Agree Maybin is running out there off balance and gets easily pushed aside due to poor leverage and overall technique. However, to place all the blame on this guy and make him the scapegoat doesn't hide the fact that the defense overall was brutal last night. Lack of pressure really hurt the secondary no one was making any plays that really stood out except maybe Kyle Williams. Man these LBs are slower than dirt and are unable to cover at all. I don't think Poz is going to make that big of a difference out there.

 

I figured the Offense would take their lumps this year but I was hoping for some sort of improvement with Gailey running things. I thought the defense would be better this year but you can't overlook the fact they are switching schemes and alot of people are learning new positions as well. #45 Moats looked terrible in coverage like he had cement in his cleats and there are going to definitely be growing pains on both sides of the ball. I think we will end up 4-12 or 5-11 this season. Hopefully, we get our franchise tackle and QB next year because this is going to be a long painful ride this season.

 

May be I glossed over something, but I don't think anyone's laying the defense's woes at Maybin's feet.

 

I think the consensus here is just about the same: he needs a lot of work, his skills aren't up to par, his instincts aren't up to par, and his body is lagging worst of all. But in that spirit, it's only right he be in there for EVERY snap during the preseason because he won't get any better just watching and staying healthy. The boy needs to get knocked around, needs to figure out how to play, and if he gets hurt in the process, so be it. It's an opportunity to bulk up and try and save his job.

[The Big Cat]

The Big Cat, give me a break. Let him play out this year before you jump to conclusions about him. He is 22 and undersized for a DE, so he is playing a new position for the first time in his life. Now, sure, he wasn't beating Trent Williams. But, not many weakside linebackers should be able to power by a LT like T Williams. Did you see Dumervil just throwing aside LT's? Probably not. My point being, the kid clearly wants to be good. He is playing hard. I generally have faith in players who show that.

 

And, if you think he is small for an athletic adult male, then you are crazy. Stupid comments, you generally have much better stuff to say than that.

 

Edit: I agree with what you are saying about him needing to staying in for all of the snaps. I bet he improves as time goes on. Call me an eternal optimist, but thats what I think will happen. I still have faith in this kid.

 

Full disclosure: I live right around the corner from Chicago's Boystown (do the math) and I live right around the corner from Wrigley Field. I routintely see men in my neighborhood (of both the gay and jock variety) that would DWARF Aaron Maybin. He has no bulk in his arms, whatsoever, no bicep, no tricep, no fore-arm muscles, the guy is small. I'm not one to be overly critical, but I every time I caught a glimpse of him last night I was shocked.

[K Gun Special]

The Big Cat, give me a break. Let him play out this year before you jump to conclusions about him. He is 22 and undersized for a DE, so he is playing a new position for the first time in his life. Now, sure, he wasn't beating Trent Williams. But, not many weakside linebackers should be able to power by a LT like T Williams. Did you see Dumervil just throwing aside LT's? Probably not. My point being, the kid clearly wants to be good. He is playing hard. I generally have faith in players who show that.

 

And, if you think he is small for an athletic adult male, then you are crazy. Stupid comments, you generally have much better stuff to say than that.

 

Edit: I agree with what you are saying about him needing to staying in for all of the snaps. I bet he improves as time goes on. Call me an eternal optimist, but thats what I think will happen. I still have faith in this kid.

 

 

Hes small for a 3-4 OLB.

[The Dean]

Hes small for a 3-4 OLB.

 

 

Yes he is.

 

But unlike some here I don't prejudge a player based solely on his size. Plenty of players have been successful even though they weren't the ideal size/weight/speed for the position. He might put on a few pounds in his career. He may, or may not, keep his quickness (I tend to think he'll keep most of it). He may very well be able to learn to offset some of his lack of bulk with technique and speed. And, yes, he will probably be over-matched at times because of his size.

[K Gun Special]

Yes he is.

 

But unlike some here I don't prejudge a player based solely on his size. Plenty of players have been successful even though they weren't the ideal size/weight/speed for the position. He might put on a few pounds in his career. He may, or may not, keep his quickness (I tend to think he'll keep most of it). He may very well be able to learn to offset some of his lack of bulk with technique and speed. And, yes, he will probably be over-matched at times because of his size.

 

 

I agree. My only point is that the odds are stacked against him due to his size. He cant afford to make mistakes bc he will get pancaked.

 

a quick look at the 2009 sack leaders tends to back up my point. http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tab...;seasonType=REG

 

most OLBs are playing (listed) at or around 260lbs. Granted some play lighter.

 

I think what we are seeing is fans' overfrustration with a #11 pick who gets thrown around while hes learning. He may never "get it" and become and decent player. Well see.

 

My take on him last night ---- and yes ive watched more film in my day than most, as well as having played for over 10 years----- is that we see a guy playing between 230-250 lbs who is hustling his keester off but making mistakes.

 

Hes raw, hes fast, but hes trying. The real test is the film breakdown, if you continue to see him play then the coaches see something on film they like, if his snaps change to only against 2s and 3s then he is not showing something.

 

The problem with making assessments from watching the game on TV is 1) most dont know jack about football schemes, 2) you dont know the particlar play / coverage called, 3) even if you did or could guess, the sideline view sucks.

 

even the Lee evans thread discussion.... you dont know at what point EVans was suppsoed to break or when the ball was supposed to be thrown so discussion is only an exercise in futility, something of a pleasure on this board.

[The Dean]

I agree. My only point is that the odds are stacked against him due to his size. He cant afford to make mistakes bc he will get pancaked.

 

a quick look at the 2009 sack leaders tends to back up my point. http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tab...;seasonType=REG

 

most OLBs are playing (listed) at or around 260lbs. Granted some play lighter.

 

I think what we are seeing is fans' overfrustration with a #11 pick who gets thrown around while hes learning. He may never "get it" and become and decent player. Well see.

 

My take on him last night ---- and yes ive watched more film in my day than most, as well as having played for over 10 years----- is that we see a guy playing between 230-250 lbs who is hustling his keester off but making mistakes.

 

Hes raw, hes fast, but hes trying. The real test is the film breakdown, if you continue to see him play then the coaches see something on film they like, if his snaps change to only against 2s and 3s then he is not showing something.

 

The problem with making assessments from watching the game on TV is 1) most dont know jack about football schemes, 2) you dont know the particlar play / coverage called, 3) even if you did or could guess, the sideline view sucks.

 

even the Lee evans thread discussion.... you dont know at what point EVans was suppsoed to break or when the ball was supposed to be thrown so discussion is only an exercise in futility, something of a pleasure on this board.

 

 

Excellent take for the most part.

 

As for the Evans route, it seems fairly obvious to me what the route was, but you are correct. None of us were in the huddle.

[K Gun Special]

Excellent take for the most part.

 

As for the Evans route, it seems fairly obvious to me what the route was, but you are correct. None of us were in the huddle.

 

 

I havent rewatched that particular play. But even assume we knew the route, an out for example, if he ran a 12 yrd instead of a 10 yd out it throws the whole thing off.

 

 

No one looked good last night, well maybe our kickers but theyve had too much game experience not to.

[The Big Cat]

I agree. My only point is that the odds are stacked against him due to his size. He cant afford to make mistakes bc he will get pancaked.

 

a quick look at the 2009 sack leaders tends to back up my point. http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tab...;seasonType=REG

 

most OLBs are playing (listed) at or around 260lbs. Granted some play lighter.

 

I think what we are seeing is fans' overfrustration with a #11 pick who gets thrown around while hes learning. He may never "get it" and become and decent player. Well see.

 

My take on him last night ---- and yes ive watched more film in my day than most, as well as having played for over 10 years----- is that we see a guy playing between 230-250 lbs who is hustling his keester off but making mistakes.

 

Hes raw, hes fast, but hes trying. The real test is the film breakdown, if you continue to see him play then the coaches see something on film they like, if his snaps change to only against 2s and 3s then he is not showing something.

 

The problem with making assessments from watching the game on TV is 1) most dont know jack about football schemes, 2) you dont know the particlar play / coverage called, 3) even if you did or could guess, the sideline view sucks.

 

even the Lee evans thread discussion.... you dont know at what point EVans was suppsoed to break or when the ball was supposed to be thrown so discussion is only an exercise in futility, something of a pleasure on this board.

 

And if I might read into what you're saying: if he possesses the technique and the moves to overcome his size, in time he will. In time he will also put on some much needed weight. The problem I saw, and the problem other people in this thread have alluded to is that he doesn't seem to have the size-overcoming technique. I'm not calling in question your technical expertise because frankly I have none of my own, so I'd like to hear your take on where his potential stands based on his (at present) limited physical tools and what we can expect based on the skills he showcased last night.