We win in spite of Drew? Bull.

[daquixers]

I was in the middle of re-watching the Bills seahawks game when this graphic came up - Drew Bledsoe is 18-24 while playing for the Bills. Now look at this:

 

In 18 Wins: 30 TD, 4 INT

In 24 losses: 17 TD, 34 INT

 

The point is that I dont think we are winning IN SPITE of Drew if in 18 wins he has thrown 30 Td and 4 INT's.

[Typical TBD Guy]

You're right. Aside from the Seahawks game, the "we win in spite of Drew" comments are wrong.

 

However, can you validate these comments?

 

1. "We win because of Drew."

2. "We lost in spite of Drew."

 

Nope. You can't.

[YOOOOOO]

So DREW had 30TD's and only 1INT going into that Seattle game....WoW i would of never believed that....

[daquixers]

Kelso - but even the Seahawks game, the 17 points we scored the first half was all Drew. The running game wasnt there in the first half. He made some bad throws but he also made some nice drives.

[YOOOOOO]

I did some research....and those stats are wrong....

 

2004

Seattle -3

St.Louis -1

 

8TD's - 4INT's

 

2003

NYG -1

WASH -1

NE -1

 

8TD's - 3INT's

 

2002

he threw 0 INT's in 8 wins

 

15TD's - 0INT's

 

31TD's - 7INT's in Buffalo Wins(i knew 1 INT in 3 years sounded weird), but still very good stats in our wins...Our losses now, especially away are terrible...

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

Kelso - but even the Seahawks game, the 17 points we scored the first half was all Drew. The running game wasnt there in the first half. He made some bad throws but he also made some nice drives.

145882[/snapback]

 

 

I think the key thing to remember here is that is essentailly s false distiction to separate Bledsoe from the running game or to give him all the credit for the passing game. This is ovviously the case since clearly a receiver deserves some if not most in some cases for a reception or if the RAC leads to a TD.

 

Statw which folks may want to point to to "prove" this case by looking at TD passes by Drew obviously give no justice to this reality.

 

Another good example is WMs TD run for a TD on a 4th and 1 call. WM received great credit that he deserved for a rushing TD when he took the lateral for a thiriy yard run and dove for the TD for a TD that I doubt Travis as good as he is with two 1000+ yard seasons would hve pulled off. Nevertheless, as central as WM was to this play, does anyone seriously deny that Bledsoe contributed a lot to this rushing TD with the fake he sold of going for the QB sneak and delivering a backward pass accurately on on pace to WM.

 

There are two of the more obvious examples, but it is the threat of the WM run which makes a defender hesitate a fraction of a second before he covers a receiver and it is the threat of Bledsoe's arm which to some extent makes the CB have to correctly read the play and hang back a second on filling the hole if he has any doubts whether he is going to face a run from WM or a deep pass for Bledsoe.

 

The stats sited simply are used falsely if they attempt to support the false notion that all passing plays are all Drew efforts and all run as all WM efforts.

 

Even on a play which us all stiff arms and giddyup by WM to break it and Bledsoe did nothing but hand-off if the play call was for a pass and DB read them as being in a zone and audibled to the run, then I think it is false to divide things up regadless of how the stats look.

[daquixers]

I did some research....and those stats are wrong....

 

2004

Seattle -3

St.Louis -1

 

8TD's - 4INT's

 

2003

NYG -1

WASH -1

NE -1

 

8TD's - 3INT's

 

2002

he threw 0 INT's in 8 wins

 

15TD's - 0INT's

 

31TD's - 7INT's in Buffalo Wins(i knew 1 INT in 3 years sounded weird), but still very good stats in our wins...Our losses now, especially away are terrible...

145890[/snapback]

 

LMAO - those stats were mentioned IN THE GAME, thus it didnt count that game. You just add Drews 1 TD and 3 INT's from the seahawks game and you get 31 Tds and 7 interceptions - thats still amazing.

[Dante]

Sure he is a great guy and maybe career numbers arent bad. Too bad that isnt today and those numbers dont win games. Open your eyes and look up the meaning of "myopia".

Good luck with the Drew lovefest.

[YOOOOOO]

LMAO - those stats were mentioned IN THE GAME, thus it didnt count that game. You just add Drews 1 TD and 3 INT's from the seahawks game and you get 31 Tds and 7 interceptions - thats still amazing.

145904[/snapback]

 

 

Yea i just realized that

[daquixers]

Sure he is a great guy and maybe career numbers arent bad. Too bad that isnt today and those numbers dont win games. Open your eyes and look up the meaning of "myopia".

Good luck with the Drew lovefest.

145910[/snapback]

 

Actually those numbers did win the game

[Bear]

You know what? This thread could go on and on, and in the end it all comes down to something written in the first post...

 

18 wins

24 losses

[daquixers]

You know what?  This thread could go on and on, and in the end it all comes down to something written in the first post...

 

18 wins

24 losses

145951[/snapback]

 

Yep. And in 4 of those losses Drew didnt have either Eric Moulds or Travis Henry. In about 35 of those games, Drew had no offensive line.

[seq004]

Yep. And in 4 of those losses Drew didnt have either Eric Moulds or Travis Henry. In about 35 of those games, Drew had no offensive line.

145955[/snapback]

...and will you always make an excuse for him? It was the wind. He had all day to throw in Seattle in fact I think it was the O-lines best game of pass protection yet Drew KILLED THREE drives when he threw 3 perfect passes to the other team that is. We will never get there with Drew.

[daquixers]

...and will you always make an excuse for him? It was the wind. He had all day to throw in Seattle in fact I think it was the O-lines best game of pass protection yet Drew KILLED THREE drives when he threw 3 perfect passes to the other team that is. We will never get there with Drew.

145966[/snapback]

 

I dont think you understand. I am someone who believes in JP Losman and if we lose 1 more game want him to start a few games this year and start next year. BUT - if for some reason Drew was doing poorly this year and he all-of-sudden turned it on and I dont care if he threw 10 interceptions in a game, if we win the game, then I want the QB who won that game to be our QB. If we go 10-6, I want it to be a open competition next year. That would have meant Drew went 10-2 since week 4. That's pretty darn good.

 

Also - even though he threw 3 interceptions he also threw about 20 great balls. Watch the game. There were some nice lasers, and dont kid yourself - Drew got us the 17 points in the first half. Not McGahee. McGahee got us the last 21 in the 2nd half.

 

Also. I said the 0-line had 35 bad games - no one can say they didnt. The last 5-6 games have been pretty good and whatdya know ? we have won 5 of the last 7 ... jee wiz dilbert

[Dante]

 

Also - even though he threw 3 interceptions he also threw about 20 great balls. Watch the game. There were some nice lasers, and dont kid yourself - Drew got us the 17 points in the first half.

145984[/snapback]

I will commend you for your positive, glass is half full attitude. It actually is more healthy than being a realist. I will give you that Drew is average qb at his best. I guess, relative to what Bills fans have gotten used to the past few seasons, that is better than horrible. He is a half assed fill in qb until something better comes along. Whether that "something better" is Losman is anybodys guess. But he is not, never was and never will be the guy that makes us good enough to compete in the playoffs, let alone win the Super Bowl. Dude it's just not there. I understand your love for the Bills but I think that clouds any objective judgement you may have regarding not only Drew, but any other Bill. I guess we could beat this thing to death on and on but consider this. What is other coaches, gm's impression of him? If he was a great or even good qb do you think that the Pats would have dumped him for a total unknown like Brady? Dumped him in their own division no less!!!!! Just think about that. How much respect do they have for him trading him within the division. Knowing they have to face him twice a season? I dare say that probably figured that they were weakening the Bills by trading him to us. As much as I hate the Pats I really grudgingly admire their scouting and management skills. They spotted a sucker in the Bills and took us to the cleaners. Not only getting our 1st round pick but getting rid of a sloth of a qb and his huge paycheck.

[AJ1]

We win in spite of Drew.

 

Bills' early Dec '04 team approximate ratings:

 

WRs = excellent

OL = adequate

RBs = well above average

QBs = below average

TE = average

DL = above average

LBs = excellent

DBs = good

ST = excellent

 

You tell me the position(s) that's holding the Bills back?

[daquixers]

We win in spite of Drew.

 

Bills' early Dec '04 team approximate ratings:

 

WRs = excellent

OL  = adequate

RBs = well above average

QBs = below average

TE = average

DL = above average

LBs = excellent

DBs = good

ST = excellent

 

You tell me the position(s) that's holding the Bills back?

145997[/snapback]

 

That is YOUR or someone elses personal OPINION. The stats (30 TDs, 4 INT) tell otherwise.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

...and will you always make an excuse for him? It was the wind. He had all day to throw in Seattle in fact I think it was the O-lines best game of pass protection yet Drew KILLED THREE drives when he threw 3 perfect passes to the other team that is. We will never get there with Drew.

145966[/snapback]

 

I also don't think we will ever get there with Bledsoe but for different reasons than you do,

 

I think Drew is well into the backside of his career because he has taken a bunch of hits and thrown a lot of passes. However, from past experience it is possible to make it to the SB with Drew as shown by Parcells when he did a fantstic coaching job with him in NE. It is also possible to even win an SB with Bledsoe playing an essential role for the team as he did when he played QB and threw for the winning TD in a must win game for the 2001 Pats SB winning team. He successfully played QB running a Pats O powered down and (and thus made more effective) for Tom Brady by Charlie Weis and HC genius Bill Belichick.

 

However, though Bledsoe played a crtical role for an SB winner and made the SB earlier in his career, the NFL is a harsh mistress for players and the slide downhill can be very fast when a player passes his prime.

 

My sense is that Bledsoe's dismal production last year was a strong indicator he is done.

 

However, I think in order for Bledsoe to succeed he needs one of the better HCs in the game motivating Bledsoe (and constantly reminding him to throw the damn ball) and motivating the team and building it to become a TEAM.

 

I think it was simply too much to expect that given Bledsoe's limitations and horrendous year last year that a team with a rookie HC would be able to compensate for his failings and make the playoffs and win it all this year. MM proved that in the beginning of the year as the team failed to close the deal across the board for different reasons in each game and MM had an 0-4 start not usual but not atypical for a rookie HC.

 

Still I am very impressed with how MM has pulled it together and some of things he has done:

 

1. He really has hired and gotten great production from his assistant co-ordinators:

 

After some initial hiccups as he got to a working combination with Clements, JMac reviving the OL, getting WM fully recuperated and using him authoritatively, working with Bledsoe's strengths and weaknesses (like employing an alarm clock set for 4 seconds to play the throw the damn ball Parcells role) has employed him well enough to win a game going away even if Bledsoe throws 3 pics, they have solved the redzone production with some good use of defensive players as part time blockers.

 

The hiring of Bobby April and by employing a few (and it just a few) starters in skill positions the ST game is one of if not the best in the league

 

Holding on to Jerry Gray has allowed the D to continue to be productive and even improve on their past performance. We knew tactically he could call a good game using LeBeau's run blitz, but strategically Gray has been nothing short of phenomenal in his ability to diagnose what an oppenent is doing well to make his offense work in the first half, make a change to meet and get his players to implement that change in 15 minutes of halftime.

 

This is simply the biggest difference from life under GW who had to fire his first OC and then moved "up" to Kevin Killdrive, had his buddy do know better than average with the ST, and actually ran a horrid D with Gray the first two years, but saw it immediately revive with a talent infusion and moving from the GW scheme to the LeBeau scheme proved a revival for Gray.

 

2. I am really impressed with how the team came back from a horrid performance in NE to still believe in themselves and in their HC to win the next two games in blowouts.

 

I can understand the fixation on Bledsoe, but the real story here is how well is the HC doing (the buck ultimately stops with him) with the talent he has, Bledsoe and others.

 

I think Bledsoe is far enough along in his career that a great HC can win with him as long as you use him as a change-up rather than depend on him like you would the best of QBs. However, though I think MM is much improved from the rookie he was when he came in, he is not yet one of the greats and I doubt he can win with Bledsoe.

 

An older Bledsoe almost certainly cannot win, however, I think he can be an adequate placeholder for our QB of th future as long as the future comes fairly quickly. If anything Bledsoe is a team player who as long as he is managed properly so that his competitive desires do not get the best of him can play the same role for JP which Tom Brady speaks so highly of Bledsoe for playing to help him develop.

[daquixers]

Any team can win with anyone. Didnt Baltimore win a SB with Dilfer or something?

 

None-the-less, I think Drew IS in a downslide, but I also think he is an incredible off-the-field team leader and TEAM player. Never selfish. Almost never getting mad ... etc, and this is probably the BIGGEST reason I like the guy.

[Alaska Darin]

I will commend you for your positive, glass is half full attitude. It actually is more healthy than being a realist. I will give you that Drew is average qb at his best. I guess, relative to what Bills fans have gotten used to the past few seasons, that is better than horrible. He is a half assed fill in qb until something better comes along. Whether that "something better" is Losman is anybodys guess. But he is not, never was and never will be the guy that makes us good enough to compete in the playoffs, let alone win the Super Bowl. Dude it's just not there. I understand your love for the Bills but I think that clouds any objective judgement you may have regarding not only Drew, but any other Bill. I guess we could beat this thing to death on and on but consider this. What is other coaches, gm's impression of him? If he was a great or even good qb do you think that the Pats would have dumped him for a total unknown like Brady? Dumped him in their own division no less!!!!!  Just think about that. How much respect do they have for him trading him within the division. Knowing they have to face him twice a season? I dare say that probably figured that they were weakening the Bills by trading him to us.  As much as I hate the Pats I really grudgingly admire their scouting and management skills. They spotted a sucker in the Bills and took us to the cleaners. Not only getting our 1st round pick but getting rid of a sloth of a qb and his huge paycheck.

145993[/snapback]

Mix in a paragraph.