Iupati and Davis

[billsfan89]

49ers had a killer draft they built up their O-line (Yes we drafted 2 rookies and had them start last year as well but unlike the Bills last year the 49ers this season had a high quality LT and other parts of their line in place so they took an OK unit and added two studs to it while we forced two rookies to try and build the unit).

 

The 49ers got the best guard in the draft and on top of that a really nice physically gifted RT. As I said add in the fact that they had a good LT and C and they are looking up.

[Thurman#1]

Yeah, the Bills started two rookies on the line last year, I though that was smart - building from the lines.

 

 

 

Yup. They did well with that last year, under the last administration.

 

Would've been nice if that trend had continued.

[Thurman#1]

49ers had a killer draft they built up their O-line (Yes we drafted 2 rookies and had them start last year as well but unlike the Bills last year the 49ers this season had a high quality LT and other parts of their line in place so they took an OK unit and added two studs to it while we forced two rookies to try and build the unit).

 

The 49ers got the best guard in the draft and on top of that a really nice physically gifted RT. As I said add in the fact that they had a good LT and C and they are looking up.

 

 

Nice post.

[Thurman#1]

Tampa Bay "did it the right way" by drafting heavy on the OL and ignoring the "luxury skill positions" from 2006-2008. See how awesome and unstoppable their team is now?

 

And why is the drafting the OL all of a sudden going to improve the 49ers game in 2010? A 1st in 2007 (Staley), and a high 2nd in 2008 (Rachal) didn't improve the team at all.

 

To everyone else: If SF is good this season, it will be because Alex Smith decided to be good all of a sudden, NOT because they took Davis and Iupati.

 

 

Yeah, definitely. Good protective OLs don't help QBs at all. Good point.

 

 

No, smith has been bad, except for a brief stretch last season. If he continues to play poorly, drafting iupati and davis will have little impact on the 49ers success. If his play improves and he becomes a good QB, the 49ers will improve.

 

 

No matter how hard you try to wiggle around this, it doesn't make sense. Building a good OL is a huge help for a QB. Of course Smith needs to continue getting better. But having a good OL will be a great help to him. Lots of QBs remarkably "get better" and "make better decisions" when their OL improves a lot.

[C.Biscuit97]

Yup. Would've been nice if that trend had continued.

 

 

Maybe the coaches who actually evaluate film like our tackles more than fans do. How many LTs don't struggle as rookies/ first year players?

 

Everyone wanted the Bills to draft a LT. But when they picked, all the players that could start right away at LT were gone. Bell struggled but the guy does have some potential.

 

And Davis had gigantic risk all over him. Iupati is going to be a damn good guard.

[Thurman#1]

Maybe the coaches who actually evaluate film like our tackles more than fans do. How many LTs don't struggle as rookies/ first year players?

 

Everyone wanted the Bills to draft a LT. But when they picked, all the players that could start right away at LT were gone. Bell struggled but the guy does have some potential.

 

 

Call Bell a "first-year player" all you want, he was a second-year player last year.

 

And if "the coaches who actually evaluate film like our tackles more than fans do," that is a truly awful sign. It would mean that they aren't very good at evaluation.

 

Let's hope (desperately) that the coaches badly wanted an LT but figured they are in a three-year rebuilding program anyway and that they needed to draft the best players they could regardless of position to put us in the best position possible for success in 2012. And that their draft decisions were perhaps made easier by seeing who was available when we drafted. Luckily, that does seem like the most likely explanation.

[C.Biscuit97]

Call Bell a "first-year player" all you want, he was a second-year player last year.

 

And if "the coaches who actually evaluate film like our tackles more than fans do," that is a truly awful sign. It would mean that they aren't very good at evaluation.

 

Let's hope (desperately) that the coaches badly wanted an LT but figured they are in a three-year rebuilding program anyway and that they needed to draft the best players they could regardless of position to put us in the best position possible for success in 2012. And that their draft decisions were perhaps made easier by seeing who was available when we drafted. Luckily, that does seem like the most likely explanation.

 

 

No offense, but I trust Gailey's eye for talent more than yours. If they think Bell has enough potential to pass on tackles until the 5th round, I'll trust the guy for now. I'm sure a guy with as much experience as he has knows the importance of a good oline.

 

And Bell is a raw football player. His rookie was essentially a redshirt year. There is a huge difference watching the game and actually getting live reps. The best thing for an oline is consistence. Olines need to grow as a whole unit.

[Thurman#1]

No offense, but I trust Gailey's eye for talent more than yours. If they think Bell has enough potential to pass on tackles until the 5th round, I'll trust the guy for now. I'm sure a guy with as much experience as he has knows the importance of a good oline.

 

And Bell is a raw football player. His rookie was essentially a redshirt year. There is a huge difference watching the game and actually getting live reps. The best thing for an oline is consistence. Olines need to grow as a whole unit.

 

 

 

Jesus, I hope you trust Gailey's eye for talent more than mine. If you didn't, that would make you a pretty pathetic specimen.

 

But Bell is not at this point, all that raw, not after a year and a half in an NFL system (excluding the time after the injury last year), including half a year of starts and 27 months in an NFL strength and conditioning program. I mean, pretend all you want, if you feel the need, by all means go ahead. Kidding yourself is a great American pastime.

 

But the guy isn't all that raw anymore.

 

Could he improve greatly? Sure. Pretty much anyone could. Is it likely? Puh-leeze.

 

And again, kid yourself all you want, but this issue isn't a Chan-Gailey-vs.-Thurman#1-who's-got-the-best-eye-for-talent showdown. Not even close. Gailey doesn't make decisions based solely on a what-is-best-for-the-team-at-left-tackle-in-2010 basis. Not even close. And thank God for that, because if he did, he would be a complete bonehead. If the Bills are bad this year, that will, in the long run, be better for Chan Gailey in 2011 and especially in 2012. And we are rebuilding, no matter how much you and some of the folks here want to put your head in the sand and wish that fact away. And we had about 10 gaping holes in this roster, and Gailey and Nix had to pick and choose which would be the best holes to fill in this draft and at this time.

 

They know there's a 95% chance they'll need to address left tackle, and soon, unless Wang develops quicker than expected. But you can't do everything in one year. The hole at LT will still be there, waiting for a solution, next year.

[Doc]

49ers had a killer draft they built up their O-line (Yes we drafted 2 rookies and had them start last year as well but unlike the Bills last year the 49ers this season had a high quality LT and other parts of their line in place so they took an OK unit and added two studs to it while we forced two rookies to try and build the unit).

 

The 49ers got the best guard in the draft and on top of that a really nice physically gifted RT. As I said add in the fact that they had a good LT and C and they are looking up.

The 49'ers' starting center, Eric Heitmann, has a broken fibula and is out 6-8 weeks, if not longer. Without him and 2 rookies on the O-line, it should be rough going for the first part of the season.

[mpl6876]

The 49'ers' starting center, Eric Heitmann, has a broken fibula and is out 6-8 weeks, if not longer. Without him and 2 rookies on the O-line, it should be rough going for the first part of the season.

 

Doc, thanks for the assessment of the 49er's OL. Wondering what's your assessment of our OL?

[JohnC]

Jesus, I hope you trust Gailey's eye for talent more than mine. If you didn't, that would make you a pretty pathetic specimen.

 

But Bell is not at this point, all that raw, not after a year and a half in an NFL system (excluding the time after the injury last year), including half a year of starts and 27 months in an NFL strength and conditioning program. I mean, pretend all you want, if you feel the need, by all means go ahead. Kidding yourself is a great American pastime.

 

But the guy isn't all that raw anymore.

 

Could he improve greatly? Sure. Pretty much anyone could. Is it likely? Puh-leeze.

 

And again, kid yourself all you want, but this issue isn't a Chan-Gailey-vs.-Thurman#1-who's-got-the-best-eye-for-talent showdown. Not even close. Gailey doesn't make decisions based solely on a what-is-best-for-the-team-at-left-tackle-in-2010 basis. Not even close. And thank God for that, because if he did, he would be a complete bonehead. If the Bills are bad this year, that will, in the long run, be better for Chan Gailey in 2011 and especially in 2012. And we are rebuilding, no matter how much you and some of the folks here want to put your head in the sand and wish that fact away. And we had about 10 gaping holes in this roster, and Gailey and Nix had to pick and choose which would be the best holes to fill in this draft and at this time.

 

They know there's a 95% chance they'll need to address left tackle, and soon, unless Wang develops quicker than expected. But you can't do everything in one year. The hole at LT will still be there, waiting for a solution, next year.

 

Terrific post. As you stated not all holes are going to be filled in one offseason, especially if the draft is the main mechanism to fill needs. Where I slightly differ with you is just because you don't have an opportunity to get a long term solution at a particular position that doesn't mean you can't upgrade that vulnerability with a stop gap type of player so the position is upgraded to the level that it isn't a major liability.

 

I'm sure this regime is very aware of this team's strengths and weaknesses. As you smartly stated it is a multi-year rebuilding process. This team has a very long way to go to be considered a serious team. For those who thnk this team is on the doorstep to being very good you are assuming way too much. You need to tone down your expectations and be comfortable with the reality of where this team is at this particular (beginning) point.

[Doc]

Doc, thanks for the assessment of the 49er's OL. Wondering what's your assessment of our OL?

With no rookies, things should be better.

 

But seriously, run-blocking should be a strength. As for pass-blocking, a lot will depend on Trent in terms or recognizing blitzes and audibling, as well as the receivers getting open quickly. I think that screens and slants will help, as will traps, delays, reverses, and play-action.

[JPS]

Tampa Bay "did it the right way" by drafting heavy on the OL and ignoring the "luxury skill positions" from 2006-2008. See how awesome and unstoppable their team is now?

 

And why is the drafting the OL all of a sudden going to improve the 49ers game in 2010? A 1st in 2007 (Staley), and a high 2nd in 2008 (Rachal) didn't improve the team at all.

 

To everyone else: If SF is good this season, it will be because Alex Smith decided to be good all of a sudden, NOT because they took Davis and Iupati.

THAT is a great response.

[JPS]

Nix and Gailey have hinted that they can't fix it all this year, but if they're moving in the right direction, that's all I care about. If LT and QB cost them as we suspect it will, I have faith it will be addressed next year (unless a REALLY good running back comes out...jk).

[Thoner7]

The Bills alwasy seem hell bent on developing OL talent rather than just drafting some OL who already have talent. The fact of the matter is Bell has a much higher chance of being out of the league in 2 years than the Bills starting LT. But I guess relying on the likes of him and others like him allows the Bills to draft 3 RBs in the first round the last 8 drafts while an undrafted former NFL Europe player is that starter

[Thoner7]

I really like Iupati and I got to thinking if there was any correlation between a Gs success in the league and draft position. I looked at 5 years of drafts (03-07) and started looking at the first round Gs. I picked those years because they were the most recent aside from 09 (too soon), and in 08 there were none taken in the first.

 

In 2003 no Gs were taken in rd 1, but Eric Steinbach was taken at 33 overall and is a very good G for the Browns.

in 2004, Shawn Andrews has been a multi time PBer, but has been suffering from depression as of late. Chris Snee was taken with the 34th over all and is a PBer as well who helped his team to a SB.

2005 only one, Logan Mankins, and he is a PBer and SB winner.

2006 Davin Joseph who is now a PBer

2007 Only Ben Grubbs in RD1. He hasn't made the PB yet but is a very good G and will likely be in the PB soon.

 

So in 5 years, 6 Gs were taken in RD1 or very close to it (2 picks or less), and 4 have been PB while the two who haven't have been very good players for their teams. Eric Wood was the only player drafted to play G in 2009 and if his rookie year is any indication he is going to be a quality player as well - good news for us Bills fans

 

 

 

But if those last 5 drafts are any indication, it would seem that if a guard is good enough to justify a rd 1 selection, he has a 66% chance to make the PB and 83-100% likely to become one of the better Guards in the league (83% if you count Shawn Andrews career as a bust). That has to be the highest % in the league for any position from draft choice to PBer. I have full confidence that Wood and/or Levitre will become one of the better Gs in the league, but I would have liked to add a guy like Iupati too that mix, with Wood as one of the better C in the league.

 

EDIT: This link is posted in another thread on the Wall. Similiar line of thinking in their research, and G has the lowest bust rate of any position.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2010/2/24/1324...-it-high-stakes

[reddogblitz]

Buffalo hasn't selected an OT in the first or second round since Mike Williams.

How'd that work out?

 

I'm thinking Spiller could be awesome and indeed make our OLine look better. They had the Clemson vs. Gerogia Tech game on ESPN Rewind or whatever it's called last night. I switched over to it and Clemson had just scored a TD. Spiller ran for 30 odd yards for a TD. The play was where the WR came around like it was going to be an end around. Then they handed it to Spiller going back around the end vacated by the WR. You don't need a whole heckuva lot of blocking by the line to get this to work if it's set up ahead of time and sold properly. Granted this was college, but I could see this kind of stuff working with his speed.

[mpl6876]

With no rookies, things should be better.

 

But seriously, run-blocking should be a strength. As for pass-blocking, a lot will depend on Trent in terms or recognizing blitzes and audibling, as well as the receivers getting open quickly. I think that screens and slants will help, as will traps, delays, reverses, and play-action.

 

I agree with what you have said. If I may read between the lines, it sounds as though you don't have a lot of confidence in the O line's pass blocking. If that's the case I too have my concerns.

[reddogblitz]

I agree with what you have said. If I may read between the lines, it sounds as though you don't have a lot of confidence in the O line's pass blocking. If that's the case I too have my concerns.

Really, there aren't many teams in the NFL that don't have pass blocking issues. I think with our new coach and offense and a year of experience for our guys, I expect our issues to be lessened this year. Not solved, but lessened. Does that help out your "concerns" any?

[Doc]

I agree with what you have said. If I may read between the lines, it sounds as though you don't have a lot of confidence in the O line's pass blocking. If that's the case I too have my concerns.

I can't be confident in the OT's' pass blocking until I see them play.