mpl6876 Posted August 9, 2010 Posted August 9, 2010 You are missing the OP's main point. That regardless of how marginal our OT's are, Gailey will gameplan around this, and still will make this offense play to its strong points and be reasonably successful. Dick Jauron and his offensive coaches were as bad a coaching staff from an offensive view as the NFL has seen in a long time. They took good players and made them marginal, and took average players and made them poor. Gailey is a winner and understands how an offense works, and what needs to be done to succeed in the NFL with the talent that he is given. And BTW, where does everyone get the idea that Cornell Green is that bad. The guy has been in the NFL for what close to a dozen years? You do NOT last that long if you suck. I think he will be a reasonably decent acquisition for this year's team. Your entitled to that optimistic viewpoint but I don't share that viewpoint. Last time I knew a coach needed solid to great players to win; especially at key positions. Since we are talking offense, I ask you who are those players that fit that bill? My point is Gailey may be a solid coach but a solid coach still needs players. As of today we just don't have the proven talent to compete with the elite teams. I don't foresee all of our young guys stepping up. I think it's safe to say some will and some will not. Gailey may be a solid coach. I certainly like him better than Dick boy. But to classify him as a winner is a little over the top. I suppose it depends on your definition of a winner. I would say he has moderate success as a head coach. I will admit he has been successful as an offensive coordinator. As a head coach he had talent with the Cowboys and that's something that shouldn't be discarded so easily. The Green pick up was a "band aid" at best. I don't think many of us were jumping for joy when we picked him up. You said he isn't that bad and that might be correct. I say he isn't that good. Imo, he is not a RT we can build around for the future. In summary, I like the attitude Gailey is taking and with better talent he may turn into a successful Bills coach. However, this year my expectations are quite low.
Sisyphean Bills Posted August 9, 2010 Posted August 9, 2010 We're talking football - not life and death. The post is saying think positive because that's what we got. Green, Meredeth and Bell - that's how we're going to roll Bro so deal with it. It's football - relax. Relaxation has nothing to do with applying the same logic to a different situation to illustrate its unsoundness. There are those that want everyone to click their heels together, wish on falling stars, and ignore or otherwise not discuss real challenges that the team obviously faces. If not pathetic, it's comical. Believing in pixie dust doesn't make one smarter, healthier, tougher, nor more likely to get laid. Yet, that is exactly what some posters believe because arguing with facts is a bit more challenging than spouting self-delusions.
thewildrabbit Posted August 9, 2010 Posted August 9, 2010 These guys play in the NFL, you can't hide bad players...other teams will find and exploit their weakness. The same can be said about offensive schemes, this isn't college where you can adjust the plays to make up for talent. The Bills can try and run more and try and throw more quick outs and slants, those will only carry them so far before they are shut down. Teams need balance in run game and passing game, right now the Bills don't have a deep passing game simply because the QB's won't have more then 3 seconds to throw on 3rd and long. The Bills are going into this year with basically the same line they had last season, so to the homies who think the line can't play worse then last season...feel free to pop some cold ones and not worry at all
Fixxxer Posted August 9, 2010 Posted August 9, 2010 These guys play in the NFL, you can't hide bad players...other teams will find and exploit their weakness. The same can be said about offensive schemes, this isn't college where you can adjust the plays to make up for talent. The Bills can try and run more and try and throw more quick outs and slants, those will only carry them so far before they are shut down. Teams need balance in run game and passing game, right now the Bills don't have a deep passing game simply because the QB's won't have more then 3 seconds to throw on 3rd and long. The Bills are going into this year with basically the same line they had last season, so to the homies who think the line can't play worse then last season...feel free to pop some cold ones and not worry at all Are you saying that coaching is vastly overrated? That if you don't have good to great players you won't win much?
thewildrabbit Posted August 9, 2010 Posted August 9, 2010 Are you saying that coaching is vastly overrated? That if you don't have good to great players you won't win much? No to the first part and yes to the second. To the first part...what coach do you think is going to turn these players into another Jason Peters, you mean the assistant line coach from KC who is now the line coach of the Bills... a guy learning to do his job? To the second part...yea, you do need good to great talent to win in the NFL. Show me one team that wins with bad players. The Bills are lacking talent on the O line, at both tackle positions and center. There is a world of difference between a 5th - 7th round player and a 1st-2nd round player. The formers are usually projects that are going to take much longer to develop properly, if they develop at all.
Thurman#1 Posted August 9, 2010 Posted August 9, 2010 It would be nice to have this position removed from a question mark, but from what I have seen since Gailey has come on board I have to believe that he will not let one position ruin our offense. They have to see potential in Bell and/or Meredith....Bell is raw but has a year under his belt and won't have to jump into a no huddle offense (that should not have happened last year)......and really I believe Gailey will adjust scheme and play calling to set the O up for success, not failure...something we have not had in a while..... Not to mention it will be esier to pass block if the opposition doesn't know what type of play we are running like it seems they have in the past few years So, and tell me if I'm interpreting this wrong, you're basically saying that you desperately hope things will be OK and throw a few maybe-this'll-happen's at it. Maybe ... but not likely. Don't think so. But I hope so too.
Thurman#1 Posted August 9, 2010 Posted August 9, 2010 We're talking football - not life and death. The post is saying think positive because that's what we got. Green, Meredeth and Bell - that's how we're going to roll Bro so deal with it. It's football - relax. They're gonna be awful next year. I'm pretty relaxed about it. They're rebuilding. If they aren't better by 2012, I'll start to get frustrated again.
Thurman#1 Posted August 9, 2010 Posted August 9, 2010 No to the first part and yes to the second. To the first part...what coach do you think is going to turn these players into another Jason Peters, you mean the assistant line coach from KC who is now the line coach of the Bills... a guy learning to do his job? To the second part...yea, you do need good to great talent to win in the NFL. Show me one team that wins with bad players. The Bills are lacking talent on the O line, at both tackle positions and center. There is a world of difference between a 5th - 7th round player and a 1st-2nd round player. The formers are usually projects that are going to take much longer to develop properly, if they develop at all. This post is dead on.
BillsVet Posted August 9, 2010 Posted August 9, 2010 You are missing the OP's main point. That regardless of how marginal our OT's are, Gailey will gameplan around this, and still will make this offense play to its strong points and be reasonably successful. Dick Jauron and his offensive coaches were as bad a coaching staff from an offensive view as the NFL has seen in a long time. They took good players and made them marginal, and took average players and made them poor. Gailey is a winner and understands how an offense works, and what needs to be done to succeed in the NFL with the talent that he is given. And BTW, where does everyone get the idea that Cornell Green is that bad. The guy has been in the NFL for what close to a dozen years? You do NOT last that long if you suck. I think he will be a reasonably decent acquisition for this year's team. No, I'm not missing the OP's point. The situation at OT is bad and there's no other way to describe it. Cornell Green has struggled in pass protection which was his main issue in Oakland along with taking too many penalties. Meanwhile, Bell hasn't practiced fully and Meredith also has issues with pass rushers. And as far as compairing Gailey to Jauron, yes he's better but there are probably D-II assistants who know more offensively than DJ did. Gailey alone will not turn around an offense that has ranked in the bottom quarter for quite a few years. They need players, particularly at LT, RT, and QB for that to happen. I don't think those guys are on the roster. While I like some of the things Gailey is doing, if he were such a commodity like you say he is, wouldn't some other team have pounced on him this off-season to be an OC? He has a lot to prove after his last HC job didn't go so well.
LGB Posted August 9, 2010 Posted August 9, 2010 ...not worried either because next year it will likely be Jake Locker and a LT at the top of the next Bill's draft board. This mess will not be completely fixed in one year...
tennesseeboy Posted August 9, 2010 Posted August 9, 2010 Very hard to plan around poor tackles. Cripple your tight end options by putting in a blocking te? Add a blocking fullback? Just robbing peter to pay paul. Limit your play selection? You are going with a limited offensive and a good defense is going to have a heyday with you. In the final analysis these guys we have at tacle had better play professional football to beat the band. It sounds as if Green is doing very well on the run-blocking part of the game and maybe the others will come along. That's the hand we're dealt this year.
Conch Posted August 9, 2010 Posted August 9, 2010 Why I am not so worried about LT situation ? You must be in denial. Any reasonable Bills fan should be and has to be worried about our offensive Line. They might step up and play well but I am worried as hell they won't. It almost like saying as a Bills fan I am not worried about our QB situation. I know you didn't say that. Can someone help me understand how you as a Bills fan are not worried about our OL? We won't have a problem at all , we are simply going to ask all opposing teams to only rush three guys up the middle.
Dorkington Posted August 9, 2010 Posted August 9, 2010 There are ways to burn aggressive pass rushing. You can plan around a weak offensive line. It's certainly not ideal. But it can be done. We'll see if we have the coaching and personnel to deal with that sort of play.
Bills fan in TX Posted August 9, 2010 Posted August 9, 2010 There are ways to burn aggressive pass rushing. You can plan around a weak offensive line. It's certainly not ideal. But it can be done. We'll see if we have the coaching and personnel to deal with that sort of play. If I remember correctly, Coach Dick had the same weak offensive line and tried to work around it with the no huddle offense. We were all excited thinking that the quick pace of the no huddle would keep defenses on their heels thus slowing down their pass rush. In theory, the opposing defense would be sucking wind while our offense was pushing the ball down the field at break neck speed. In truth, the only defense sucking wind and wearing out was ours because the offense couldn't keep the ball for more than a minute and the defense was back on the field. Great coaches always try to diminish the weakness of their team and expose the weakness of the opposition. I'm sorry to say that at this point the Bills have multiple areas of weakness on both sides of the ball that opposing coaches will expose. We will try to expose the oppositions weakness but we just don't have multiple weapons to employ. The few weapons we do have (like good running backs) will be stopped by coaches putting eight in the box. Then what?
bills in va Posted August 9, 2010 Posted August 9, 2010 We won 6 games last year with the "o-line of the week" plan. Hard to get worse than that. PTR Actually we only won 5 games, the Colts gave us one. And it IS possible to be worse than last year. I don't think the tackle situation will be worse but it's possible. It's still the biggest ? on the team, if 1 starter goes down then we will be worse off and Nix will look incompetent for not addressing it.
bills in va Posted August 9, 2010 Posted August 9, 2010 Glad your not worried. The tackle situation scares me to death. I think we have one of the worst tackle situations in the league. We also have NO DEPTH. If one of our starters gets hurt we will be back in the same situation we ended with last season. Sorry couldn't disagree with you more. Nix should have done more this off season to strengthen our biggest need area.
Andre Speed Posted August 9, 2010 Posted August 9, 2010 We're talking football - not life and death. The post is saying think positive because that's what we got. Green, Meredeth and Bell - that's how we're going to roll Bro so deal with it. It's football - relax. But to classify him as a winner is a little over the top. yeh, i think to no do so is a lot "under the bottom". LOOK, a winning coach was always one with an overall record greater than .500. no opinions are allowed in numeric figures. re: LTs mcneil may be finished, and gaither looks like he's dying, or something. if anyone has a real solution, spit it out. if not, can it and watch the bloody game ! ~AS
Fixxxer Posted August 9, 2010 Posted August 9, 2010 No to the first part and yes to the second. To the first part...what coach do you think is going to turn these players into another Jason Peters, you mean the assistant line coach from KC who is now the line coach of the Bills... a guy learning to do his job? To the second part...yea, you do need good to great talent to win in the NFL. Show me one team that wins with bad players. The Bills are lacking talent on the O line, at both tackle positions and center. There is a world of difference between a 5th - 7th round player and a 1st-2nd round player. The formers are usually projects that are going to take much longer to develop properly, if they develop at all. So talent alone win games in the NFL. I couldn't disagree more. I know the situation at LT and QB is far from ideal but to think that coaching can't influence those positions to make them servicable within the confines of an offense is a very simplistic and extremist way of seeing things. Then it was the great infusion of talent that turned the jets defense around? Do you think Pennington along with Cam Cameron make the Dolphins AFCEast champions a year later? This is a regime that believes in teaching and getting the most out of players, them being stars, talented or servicable. You can't have stars spread all over your roster because the system itself doesn't allow it. A strong coaching staff it's what you need to compete in this league.
Green Lightning Posted August 9, 2010 Posted August 9, 2010 Relaxation has nothing to do with applying the same logic to a different situation to illustrate its unsoundness. There are those that want everyone to click their heels together, wish on falling stars, and ignore or otherwise not discuss real challenges that the team obviously faces. If not pathetic, it's comical. Believing in pixie dust doesn't make one smarter, healthier, tougher, nor more likely to get laid. Yet, that is exactly what some posters believe because arguing with facts is a bit more challenging than spouting self-delusions. Who's doing that? The guy is just saying here's what we got and make the best of it. It's okay to think positive. Bottom line is we are not going to rebuild in a year. Too many holes. Chan and Buddy are building they way they want to and that doesn't include a huge upgrade in OT this year. You look at that and say Christmas is ruined and all is lost. Some of us look at it and say maybe Chan can come up with plans to minimize that deficiency and still be a viable offense. It's not pollyanna to think that possilbe. I have reservations but I'm not going to spend every post p*ssing and moaning about it.
jahnyc Posted August 9, 2010 Posted August 9, 2010 Unfortunately, we have the worst group of offensive tackles in the NFL. Bell is coming off a significant injury, and was not particularly effective when he was healthy last year. I hope Wang will be able to contribute this year, but with his injuries and considering where he was drafted, it seems unlikely. The reality is that we need two quality tackles and more depth. It will be hard to scheme around our deficiencies.
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