So let me see if I understand our QB Situation

[Bufcomments]

Looks like Trent is the starter.... by default which really bothers me.

 

If Brohm is going to take the job it will have to be during the preseason games. I don't think he has done enough in practice so far judging from everything I have read.

[billsfan89]

We have Trent a QB who has some starts under his belt and is accurate but who has trouble staying healthy and arm strength concerns. Fitz a mobile guy who is gutsy BUT lacks the accuracy to be more then a quality backup. Brohm a highly touted college QB who stayed a year too long, then was drafted by Green Bay but was shell shocked by the experience so we picked him up off their practice squad.

 

Brohm physically has the tools but mentally the questions are there. Trent has some of the physical tools and some of the mental tools but can he stay healthy and overcome some of his limitations. Fitz has the heart and some of the physical tools but the complete package is far from there.

 

We may have the worst QB situation in the NFL.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Uhhh no. This is beyond a bit of a stretch. Winning a SB with mediocre QB play is NOT easy and is EXTREMELY rare.

 

<snippage of thorough and careful list - really respect all that work, but want to make a point>

 

Do you really want to stick to mediocre QB play wins championships?

 

To me, it's not the point of mediocre QB play wins championships (though it can -- "deep in the playoffs" was the initial bar and the list of non-star QBs gets much longer if you step back to AFC/NFC champions or AFC/NFC championship game -- )

 

It's the point that championships are won by teams; champion teams build great QBs

 

Other points to consider:

-Great QBs are found and built outside the 1st round of the draft

-Hindsight is always 20/20 on a QB's greatness

-The view on that point when the team's not winning can look very different

 

You point out the 50% SB QBs who were 1st round picks. Very good point and careful history.

How many top-prospect, 1st round QBs have been busts in the NFL?

 

Counterpoint: 50% of the GREAT QBs on your list were NOT first round picks. Examples:

-Brady was drafted in the 6th round and started the season #4 on the Pats depth chart.

-Warner was undrafted and spent years in Arena ball.

-Rypien was drafted in the 6th round and spent 2 yrs on IR.

 

They were not seen as great QBs b4 they started winning as part of championship TEAMS

And when the teams lost key players, the same QBs stopped looking so hot.

 

Example: I lived in St Louis in '90s - 2000's.

I remember the gloom 'n doom over the Rams lack of quality QB in 1999 -- until the team clicked and started winning. Then it was "Greatest Show on Turf" and Warner future HOF. 2002-2003 with a coaching change and some key talent missing, "cut Kurt, he was only a flash in the pan" - no way a GREAT, future HOF QB.

 

History suggests:

-Don't write off a QB as mediocre or unable to win 'cuz he wasn't drafted in the first round, spent time on a practice squad and didn't shine like a gem on his first outing.

-Don't assume a team needs a 1st round draft choice to build a good QB.

 

I'm not saying anyone on the Bills roster is a great QB. Maybe there's potential there, maybe not.

I'm saying great QBs are often recognized by hindsight, not 'cuz they excelled on a losing or poorly coached team.

Quite often, they didn't, until they had the right coaching and the right pieces around them.

[Bart]

We have Trent. He used to be good untill he got knocked out and then wasnt because the same coaches that he played under when he was good are not good any longer.

We have Fitz. He wasnt very good for the other team he was with but we thought he was our answer to all our prayers and then he wasnt and it has nothing to do with the coaches he had then as evidenced by his play in preseason this year.

We have Brian. He was so good that another team put him on there practice squad and the worthless regeam that we had when he was stolen made a good choice even though they couldnt do anything else right.

Finally we have Brown.......Thats all I got about him.

 

Not sure about you all but I think that the main thing here is can this coaching staff make something out of a has been or a Jonnie come lately or an abducted not proven throwaway or finally a ......I dont know

 

I don't know what the hell you are talking about.

[kasper13]

The Bills QB in 2011 is playing for the Washington Huskies this season. Bills are not winning the Super Bowl in 2010. They will not make the playoffs and will finish 4th in the division. Who cares who the QB is this year? They aren't going anywhere. Say what you want about SB XXV. Fact is if Norwood makes the kick they win. Everything else up to that point is irrelevant. Also hard to believe it was 20 freakin' years ago.

[Hossage]

To me, it's not the point of mediocre QB play wins championships (though it can -- "deep in the playoffs" was the initial bar and the list of non-star QBs gets much longer if you step back to AFC/NFC champions or AFC/NFC championship game -- )

 

It's the point that championships are won by teams; champion teams build great QBs

 

Other points to consider:

-Great QBs are found and built outside the 1st round of the draft

-Hindsight is always 20/20 on a QB's greatness

-The view on that point when the team's not winning can look very different

 

You point out the 50% SB QBs who were 1st round picks. Very good point and careful history.

How many top-prospect, 1st round QBs have been busts in the NFL?

 

Counterpoint: 50% of the GREAT QBs on your list were NOT first round picks. Examples:

-Brady was drafted in the 6th round and started the season #4 on the Pats depth chart.

-Warner was undrafted and spent years in Arena ball.

-Rypien was drafted in the 6th round and spent 2 yrs on IR.

 

They were not seen as great QBs b4 they started winning as part of championship TEAMS

And when the teams lost key players, the same QBs stopped looking so hot.

 

Example: I lived in St Louis in '90s - 2000's.

I remember the gloom 'n doom over the Rams lack of quality QB in 1999 -- until the team clicked and started winning. Then it was "Greatest Show on Turf" and Warner future HOF. 2002-2003 with a coaching change and some key talent missing, "cut Kurt, he was only a flash in the pan" - no way a GREAT, future HOF QB.

 

History suggests:

-Don't write off a QB as mediocre or unable to win 'cuz he wasn't drafted in the first round, spent time on a practice squad and didn't shine like a gem on his first outing.

-Don't assume a team needs a 1st round draft choice to build a good QB.

 

I'm not saying anyone on the Bills roster is a great QB. Maybe there's potential there, maybe not.

I'm saying great QBs are often recognized by hindsight, not 'cuz they excelled on a losing or poorly coached team.

Quite often, they didn't, until they had the right coaching and the right pieces around them.

 

Agreed, great post. I couldn't believe when people were saying Kurt Warner was done.

[reddogblitz]

The Bills QB in 2011 is playing for the Washington Huskies this season.

The only way the Bills get him is if someone trades down to us, or Jake falls from where he's projected now, to I'm guessing 13 or lower. That means that he's not as good as everyone is touting him to be now. In which case, do we really want him?

 

I live in Seattle and have watched many Jake Locker games. I don't get the Locker mania. 2 years ago he was running QB and last year he started to be a passer. But I saw him make many blunders. He's really not that good. I don't get it. I'd take my chances with Kyle Orton who will be a FA next year over Locker.

[reddogblitz]

You need that franchise QB to win the superbowl, but with a good team and better coaching you can make the playoffs. The Bills should first attempt to make the playoffs before thinking about super bowl.

Amen

[Geno Smith's Arm]

None of the quarterbacks on this roster will ever win a Super Bowl.

[mpl6876]

...and to think some say Jason Cambell wasn't an upgrade. Could have gotten him for basically nothing. Still gets me upset.

[bobblehead]

...and to think some say Jason Cambell wasn't an upgrade. Could have gotten him for basically nothing. Still gets me upset.

 

 

Jason Campbell wasn't an upgrade.

[mpl6876]

Jason Campbell wasn't an upgrade.

 

Look at the stats dude and he played under similiar circumstances. No OL, crappy wide receivers, and terrible coaching. If you like I can provide you with his stats. No Bills QB can even come close to his stats last season. TD passes, 275 yards plus passing, etc...Don't get me wrong he isn't a franchise QB, but IMO he most certainly is an upgrade. I just read Sal M's article on our QB situation. Pretty depressing.

[disco]

To me, it's not the point of mediocre QB play wins championships (though it can -- "deep in the playoffs" was the initial bar and the list of non-star QBs gets much longer if you step back to AFC/NFC champions or AFC/NFC championship game -- )

 

It's the point that championships are won by teams; champion teams build great QBs

 

Other points to consider:

-Great QBs are found and built outside the 1st round of the draft

-Hindsight is always 20/20 on a QB's greatness

-The view on that point when the team's not winning can look very different

 

You point out the 50% SB QBs who were 1st round picks. Very good point and careful history.

How many top-prospect, 1st round QBs have been busts in the NFL?

 

Counterpoint: 50% of the GREAT QBs on your list were NOT first round picks. Examples:

-Brady was drafted in the 6th round and started the season #4 on the Pats depth chart.

-Warner was undrafted and spent years in Arena ball.

-Rypien was drafted in the 6th round and spent 2 yrs on IR.

 

They were not seen as great QBs b4 they started winning as part of championship TEAMS

And when the teams lost key players, the same QBs stopped looking so hot.

 

Example: I lived in St Louis in '90s - 2000's.

I remember the gloom 'n doom over the Rams lack of quality QB in 1999 -- until the team clicked and started winning. Then it was "Greatest Show on Turf" and Warner future HOF. 2002-2003 with a coaching change and some key talent missing, "cut Kurt, he was only a flash in the pan" - no way a GREAT, future HOF QB.

 

History suggests:

-Don't write off a QB as mediocre or unable to win 'cuz he wasn't drafted in the first round, spent time on a practice squad and didn't shine like a gem on his first outing.

-Don't assume a team needs a 1st round draft choice to build a good QB.

 

I'm not saying anyone on the Bills roster is a great QB. Maybe there's potential there, maybe not.

I'm saying great QBs are often recognized by hindsight, not 'cuz they excelled on a losing or poorly coached team.

Quite often, they didn't, until they had the right coaching and the right pieces around them.

 

All great points. A few counterpoints of my own:

 

- 50% of the GREAT QBs on your list were NOT first round picks.

True, but consider how rare it is to have a Tom Brady and Kurt Warner. Sure, the number of first round busts is high, but imagine the number of busts it takes in every other round to find a Tom Brady or Kurt Warner. And really, 50% is somewhat of a misleading. Of the past 20 years list I made, Rypien and Hostetler are 19 and 20 years ago. They're about to disappear. Drew Brees is practically a first rounder being the first pick of round 2. Brett Favre has turned out to be an all time great.

 

In other words, there's only 2 QBs left that were just so/so and won a Super Bowl: Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer. There other 3 (Brady, Warner, Favre) are more or less legends. As high as the first round bust rate is, you can number 100 QBs from every other round before you find a Brady or Favre or Warner.

 

Consider "today's NFL era" to date back to 2004 after the NFL changed the illegal contact on receivers following the Colts/Patriots AFC championship game issues in 2003.

 

Since that time, the QBs simply to appear IN the Super Bowl:

 

2009: Drew Brees / Peyton Manning (Rnd 2 Pick 1, Rnd 1 Pick 1)

2008: Kurt Warner / Ben R (Undrafted / Rnd 1 Pick 11)

2007: Eli Manning / T Brady ( Rnd 1 Pick 1 / Rnd 6)

2006: Peyton Manning / Rex Grossman (Rnd 1 Pick 1, Rnd 1 Pick 22)

2005: Matt Hasselbeck / Ben R (Rnd 6 / Rnd 1 Pick 11)

2004: Donovan Mcnabb / Tom Brady (Rnd 1 Pick 2 / Rnd 6)

 

Of the 12 QBs to just MAKE the Super Bowl:

- 33% Drafted first or second OVERALL

- 67% Drafted 1st Round (I'm cheating w/ Brees - call it top 33 picks)

- 16% Named Tom Brady

 

In the modern NFL passing era:

83% of QBs to make it the Super Bowl are first round picks or named Tom Brady.

100% of the Super Bowl QB winners were a first rounder or named Tom Brady.

 

My real point being it's extremely rare to find a non-first round QB that wins the Super Bowl, especially today. To do it, you've gotta be not just good, but you've gotta be one of the best ever.

 

I equate this to a bit Chris Rock had in his 2008 "Kill the Messenger" HBO Special:

 

CR: "I will give you an example of how race affects my life. I live in a place called Alpine, New Jersey. Live in Alpine, New Jersey, right? My house costs millions of dollars. [some whistles and cheers from the audience] Don't hate the player, hate the game. In my neighborhood, there are four black people. Hundreds of houses, four black people. Who are these black people? Well, there's me, Mary J. Blige, Jay-Z and Eddie Murphy. Only black people in the whole neighborhood. So let's break it down, let's break it down: me, I'm a decent comedian. I'm a'ight. [applause] Mary J. Blige, one of the greatest R&B singers to ever walk the Earth. Jay-Z, one of the greatest rappers to ever live. Eddie Murphy, one of the funniest actors to ever, ever do it. Do you know what the white man who lives next door to me does for a living? He's a !@#$ing dentist! He ain't the best dentist in the world...he ain't going to the dental hall of fame...he don't get plaques for getting rid of plaque. He's just a yank-your-tooth-out dentist. See, the black man gotta fly to get to somethin' the white man can walk to."

[mpl6876]

All great points. A few counterpoints of my own:

 

- 50% of the GREAT QBs on your list were NOT first round picks.

True, but consider how rare it is to have a Tom Brady and Kurt Warner. Sure, the number of first round busts is high, but imagine the number of busts it takes in every other round to find a Tom Brady or Kurt Warner. And really, 50% is somewhat of a misleading. Of the past 20 years list I made, Rypien and Hostetler are 19 and 20 years ago. They're about to disappear. Drew Brees is practically a first rounder being the first pick of round 2. Brett Favre has turned out to be an all time great.

 

In other words, there's only 2 QBs left that were just so/so and won a Super Bowl: Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer. There other 3 (Brady, Warner, Favre) are more or less legends. As high as the first round bust rate is, you can number 100 QBs from every other round before you find a Brady or Favre or Warner.

 

Consider "today's NFL era" to date back to 2004 after the NFL changed the illegal contact on receivers following the Colts/Patriots AFC championship game issues in 2003.

 

Since that time, the QBs simply to appear IN the Super Bowl:

 

2009: Drew Brees / Peyton Manning (Rnd 2 Pick 1, Rnd 1 Pick 1)

2008: Kurt Warner / Ben R (Undrafted / Rnd 1 Pick 11)

2007: Eli Manning / T Brady ( Rnd 1 Pick 1 / Rnd 6)

2006: Peyton Manning / Rex Grossman (Rnd 1 Pick 1, Rnd 1 Pick 22)

2005: Matt Hasselbeck / Ben R (Rnd 6 / Rnd 1 Pick 11)

2004: Donovan Mcnabb / Tom Brady (Rnd 1 Pick 2 / Rnd 6)

 

Of the 12 QBs to just MAKE the Super Bowl:

- 33% Drafted first or second OVERALL

- 67% Drafted 1st Round (I'm cheating w/ Brees - call it top 33 picks)

- 16% Named Tom Brady

 

In the modern NFL passing era:

83% of QBs to make it the Super Bowl are first round picks or named Tom Brady.

100% of the Super Bowl QB winners were a first rounder or named Tom Brady.

 

My real point being it's extremely rare to find a non-first round QB that wins the Super Bowl, especially today. To do it, you've gotta be not just good, but you've gotta be one of the best ever.

 

I equate this to a bit Chris Rock had in his 2008 "Kill the Messenger" HBO Special:

 

CR: "I will give you an example of how race affects my life. I live in a place called Alpine, New Jersey. Live in Alpine, New Jersey, right? My house costs millions of dollars. [some whistles and cheers from the audience] Don't hate the player, hate the game. In my neighborhood, there are four black people. Hundreds of houses, four black people. Who are these black people? Well, there's me, Mary J. Blige, Jay-Z and Eddie Murphy. Only black people in the whole neighborhood. So let's break it down, let's break it down: me, I'm a decent comedian. I'm a'ight. [applause] Mary J. Blige, one of the greatest R&B singers to ever walk the Earth. Jay-Z, one of the greatest rappers to ever live. Eddie Murphy, one of the funniest actors to ever, ever do it. Do you know what the white man who lives next door to me does for a living? He's a !@#$ing dentist! He ain't the best dentist in the world...he ain't going to the dental hall of fame...he don't get plaques for getting rid of plaque. He's just a yank-your-tooth-out dentist. See, the black man gotta fly to get to somethin' the white man can walk to."

 

I appreciate all the research and information you have provided. You point is duely noted.

[fansince88]

None of the quarterbacks on this roster will ever win a Super Bowl.

If I told you three years ago that Drew Breeze would win a SB you would have called me a fool. If I told you Dan Marino would never win one you would have told me I was a fool. Take a soso Qb under poor coaching and you put him under a Qbs coach that knows the game and you have a winning QB. Breeze we would all say didnt have it in the NFL. That all changed last year. Our coaches lost alot of games that our Qbs kept us in the last three years. Simple as that. Chan G will make one of these guys make us sit back and say hmmm. I was thinking Brian but I could be wrong.

[first_and_ten]

We have Trent. He used to be good untill he got knocked out and then wasnt because the same coaches that he played under when he was good are not good any longer.

We have Fitz. He wasnt very good for the other team he was with but we thought he was our answer to all our prayers and then he wasnt and it has nothing to do with the coaches he had then as evidenced by his play in preseason this year.

We have Brian. He was so good that another team put him on there practice squad and the worthless regeam that we had when he was stolen made a good choice even though they couldnt do anything else right.

Finally we have Brown.......Thats all I got about him.

 

Not sure about you all but I think that the main thing here is can this coaching staff make something out of a has been or a Jonnie come lately or an abducted not proven throwaway or finally a ......I dont know

I want to know who actually thought Fitz was the answer to our prayers? Any knowledgeable football person would have known that Fitz is a backup at best.

[Geno Smith's Arm]

If I told you three years ago that Drew Breeze would win a SB you would have called me a fool. If I told you Dan Marino would never win one you would have told me I was a fool. Take a soso Qb under poor coaching and you put him under a Qbs coach that knows the game and you have a winning QB. Breeze we would all say didnt have it in the NFL. That all changed last year. Our coaches lost alot of games that our Qbs kept us in the last three years. Simple as that. Chan G will make one of these guys make us sit back and say hmmm. I was thinking Brian but I could be wrong.

 

None of the quarterbacks on this roster will ever win a Super Bowl.

[fansince88]

I want to know who actually thought Fitz was the answer to our prayers? Any knowledgeable football person would have known that Fitz is a backup at best.

First and ten I see you have been on here about a month longer then me. Here is my point. When Fitz took over in the middle of the year it was fitzy this and Fitzy that and now that he isnt doing anything special he is no good. That is my point.

[FreakPop]

I want to know who actually thought Fitz was the answer to our prayers? Any knowledgeable football person would have known that Fitz is a backup at best.

 

If Fitz is a backup at best then that doesn't bode well for Trent. Fitz is a better QB than Trent.

 

No Fitz is not the answer, anyone with half a brain can see that he is light years ahead of Trent.

[reddogblitz]

I want to know who actually thought Fitz was the answer to our prayers? Any knowledgeable football person would have known that Fitz is a backup at best.

I don't know anyone who thinks he "the answer", whatever that is. But, he's the best QB we had on our roster last year based on results, you know WINS. Unless Trent or Brohm has improved 200%, Fitz' is still the best we got. If we want to win that is.

 

We'll worry about getting "the answer" next year. Because we don't have it now.

 

But if Ftiz plays and the team wins at the same percentage as when he was in last year, we very well could make the playoffs. Then, he might be.