So let me see if I understand our QB Situation

[fansince88]

We have Trent. He used to be good untill he got knocked out and then wasnt because the same coaches that he played under when he was good are not good any longer.

We have Fitz. He wasnt very good for the other team he was with but we thought he was our answer to all our prayers and then he wasnt and it has nothing to do with the coaches he had then as evidenced by his play in preseason this year.

We have Brian. He was so good that another team put him on there practice squad and the worthless regeam that we had when he was stolen made a good choice even though they couldnt do anything else right.

Finally we have Brown.......Thats all I got about him.

 

Not sure about you all but I think that the main thing here is can this coaching staff make something out of a has been or a Jonnie come lately or an abducted not proven throwaway or finally a ......I dont know

[Hplarrm]

We have Trent. He used to be good untill he got knocked out and then wasnt because the same coaches that he played under when he was good are not good any longer.

We have Fitz. He wasnt very good for the other team he was with but we thought he was our answer to all our prayers and then he wasnt and it has nothing to do with the coaches he had then as evidenced by his play in preseason this year.

We have Brian. He was so good that another team put him on there practice squad and the worthless regeam that we had when he was stolen made a good choice even though they couldnt do anything else right.

Finally we have Brown.......Thats all I got about him.

 

Not sure about you all but I think that the main thing here is can this coaching staff make something out of a has been or a Jonnie come lately or an abducted not proven throwaway or finally a ......I dont know

Though your description of reality departs from reality in terms of interpretation and recitation of the details, in the big picture you are accurate in describing the task of the Bills coaches to make something out of tools found to be less than nothing in previous efforts (less than nothing based on inputs like GB letting Brohm go or Edwards getting tons of grief from fans/media hee in WNY).

 

The good news is that Gailey actually has a track record of having productive Os run by QBs judged by many to be failures in their previous gigs.

 

Actually given that all 3 QBs have experienced some success previously (Edwards really did look quite good until he didn't for several months, no one mistakes Fitzy for a franchise QB but he has been able to at least be a credible reserve, Brohm has proved the least in the real world though on paper he is the most athletic of the trio) there actually is not an impossibility that though the Bills will not find a savior franchise QB from these 3, they will find a signal caller who runs the offense at an "adequate" level.

 

By this I mean no where near good enough to go deep in the playoffs but perhaps good enough to lead a team to the playoffs one day.

[Projay89]

We have Trent. He used to be good untill he got knocked out and then wasnt because the same coaches that he played under when he was good are not good any longer.

We have Fitz. He wasnt very good for the other team he was with but we thought he was our answer to all our prayers and then he wasnt and it has nothing to do with the coaches he had then as evidenced by his play in preseason this year.

We have Brian. He was so good that another team put him on there practice squad and the worthless regeam that we had when he was stolen made a good choice even though they couldnt do anything else right.

Finally we have Brown.......Thats all I got about him.

 

Not sure about you all but I think that the main thing here is can this coaching staff make something out of a has been or a Jonnie come lately or an abducted not proven throwaway or finally a ......I dont know

i think you have pretty much nailed it.

[Projay89]

with TE the starter we should know fo sho,if Trent is the guy by the end of the year. also prob get a good look at Brohm for a stretch while Trents hurt(we all know he will miss time) i like the idea of going into next year KNOWING if we have any qb talent on the roster.

[Chas56]

with TE the starter we should know fo sho,if Trent is the guy by the end of the year. also prob get a good look at Brohm for a stretch while Trents hurt(we all know he will miss time) i like the idea of going into next year KNOWING if we have any qb talent on the roster.

 

Although I agree that this is how the year will go, I think we already have a pretty good idea that we don't have an NFL starting QB on our team now. The boys in charge didn't pick up one this season because they didn't believe one was available (other than an aging McNabb or someone like him - nothing for the future, really). They couldn't fix it all in one year. Next year, I would look for the them to draft a QB and a LT in rounds one and two.

[catsnbills]

with TE the starter we should know fo sho,if Trent is the guy by the end of the year. also prob get a good look at Brohm for a stretch while Trents hurt(we all know he will miss time) i like the idea of going into next year KNOWING if we have any qb talent on the roster.

Now that is typical Buffalo Bills fan mentality> THINKING ABOUT NEXT YEAR - Before this year has even started!?!?! Just maybe we might see a bunch of young guys gel and win some football games. At the very least, we could have some fun watching football THIS YEAR!!

[San Jose Bills Fan]

All your comments have varying degrees of accuracy.

 

The only one I totally agree with was your last one.

 

......I dont know

[nero47]

All your comments have varying degrees of accuracy.

 

The only one I totally agree with was your last one.

+1

[BobChalmers]

"because the same coaches that he played under when he was good are not good any longer."

 

No, Jauron and company always sucked as offensive leaders/teachers.

 

You are acting like players never develop or regress over time.

 

Time of expsoure to bad coaching is a factor you have ignored.

 

 

J.P. Losman was the NFL's 11th rated passer the first year of Jauron's tenure. He steadily regressed under their direction.

 

Trent Edwards was a well-regarded draft pick who impressed experts arround the league in his first showing and after with his quick decision making and pinpoint accuracy.

 

He didn't start out tentative. His mental game trended downward every season under the old regime.

 

It's possible it's too late for him - he's damaged goods now. It's also possible it's just a coincidence that both he and Losman regressed and there was nothing there that can be improved with better coaching.

 

However, it's probable since Losman also regressed, and Jauron has a track-record of bad offense, that it was the bad coaching that caused Edwards to regress and therefore possible he will rebound with the better offensive coach.

[Bob in STL]

We have Trent. He used to be good untill he got knocked out and then wasnt because the same coaches that he played under when he was good are not good any longer.

We have Fitz. He wasnt very good for the other team he was with but we thought he was our answer to all our prayers and then he wasnt and it has nothing to do with the coaches he had then as evidenced by his play in preseason this year.

We have Brian. He was so good that another team put him on there practice squad and the worthless regeam that we had when he was stolen made a good choice even though they couldnt do anything else right.

Finally we have Brown.......Thats all I got about him.

 

Not sure about you all but I think that the main thing here is can this coaching staff make something out of a has been or a Jonnie come lately or an abducted not proven throwaway or finally a ......I dont know

 

 

Simple.

 

Trent is the best we have and he will start. If he falls into a funk and refuses to throw the ball down the field he will be out. This is his last chance to be a leader and make plays. His future in the NFL depends on this season.

 

Backup will be either Fitz of Brohm. Chan will not play favorites. Whoever does better in preseason under game conditions will be the backup.

 

Brown will be #3 and hold the clip board.

[ganesh]

By this I mean no where near good enough to go deep in the playoffs but perhaps good enough to lead a team to the playoffs one day.

 

I don't think Mark Sanchez was or played like a franchise QB in his rookie season and the Jets still made it to the AFC Championship game. What I am trying to say is that it is a team game and if you can run the ball and stop the run (two big IFs with this team), the team will always play better. You need that franchise QB to win the superbowl, but with a good team and better coaching you can make the playoffs. The Bills should first attempt to make the playoffs before thinking about super bowl.

[BobChalmers]

I don't think Mark Sanchez was or played like a franchise QB in his rookie season and the Jets still made it to the AFC Championship game. What I am trying to say is that it is a team game and if you can run the ball and stop the run (two big IFs with this team), the team will always play better. You need that franchise QB to win the superbowl, but with a good team and better coaching you can make the playoffs. The Bills should first attempt to make the playoffs before thinking about super bowl.

 

Yeah, but you're being too generous. You can win a super bowl with mediocre QB play.

 

Numerous super bowls have been won by mediocre QB's. Do people really think Trent Dilfer was the engine behind the 2001 Ravens? Brad Johnson with the Buc's? Jeff Hostetler beat the Bills? Really? I kind of thought it was Otis Anderson and the defense (and Kelly being an idiot not giving the ball to Thuman more).

 

When you include the losing SB teams - my goodness: Rex Grossman, Franchise QB for the Bears? Really?? Stan Humphries? Neil O'Donnell?? David Woodley??

 

Does a top QB help? Of course. Can a top QB win by themselves? How many SB wins did Marino have?

 

Defense wins championships. Offensive Lines make everything work on both offense and defense (by keeping the D off the field for a rest). QB's RB's and WR's are just the icing on the cake that get all the glory and the girls for scoring the TD's.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Actually given that all 3 QBs have experienced some success previously (Edwards really did look quite good until he didn't for several months, no one mistakes Fitzy for a franchise QB but he has been able to at least be a credible reserve, Brohm has proved the least in the real world though on paper he is the most athletic of the trio) there actually is not an impossibility that though the Bills will not find a savior franchise QB from these 3, they will find a signal caller who runs the offense at an "adequate" level.

 

By this I mean no where near good enough to go deep in the playoffs but perhaps good enough to lead a team to the playoffs one day.

 

I read a lot and usually don't post. Here goes.

 

Of course, no team could possibly go deep in the playoffs without a true franchise quarterback like Jim Kelly.

For example, a 5 year bench warmer like Hostetler (injury prone, too) could never win a Super Bowl.

 

A sixth-round draft choice who spends years on IR/sidelines and throws wobblers down the sidelines (Rypien) is clearly NOT gonna win a SB over a HOF quality QB like Kelly.

 

No glove wearing QB has accomplished much in the off season. Kurt Warner was clearly washed-up in 2002 when the Rams released him. He became a "glove wearing Mary" and didn't take his team deep into the playoffs after that. http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/style_emot...fault/devil.gif

 

Of course, no playoff-winning QB like Delhomme could go undrafted and spend two years on the practice squad.

 

Look, guys, it's a team sport. Coaching counts, every game. I loved Marv Levy - he got out-coached in 4 straight SB IMO. Tough defense with a game plan smothers hot offense every Sunday. A mediocre QB with a good game plan, strong running, and enough arm to keep the defense honest can win every Sunday provided his own D keeps it close.

 

There are scores of examples where QBs no one expected much from came up big (Matt Cassel was a hot draft prospect - not) and well-regarded first rounders went bust.

 

The Bills have a lot of unknowns. At the top of my list is how good our new coaching staff is, collectively. Can they get the best out of the players. Can they get the players to make adjustments during a game and keep improving during the season. Can they keep the team together after a discouraging loss. I like what I see so far but my jury is out 'til mid-season.

 

Am I saying our QBs are great and we're going to the playoffs, No.

 

I'm just tired of hearing that gloves and the practice squad mean they must suck and the lack of a "franchise QB" and a 1st round OT dooms us to failure.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Bravo, Hopeful!

[fansince88]

All your comments have varying degrees of accuracy.

 

The only one I totally agree with was your last one.

Thats right varying degrees. And these degrees are nearly dirrect quotes from posters on here. We are all arguing our oppinions. We need to wait and see. These are not my oppinion but the oppinions of the hosts of these posts. Lets all look at how we are waisting our time arguing about things that we cant controll or that the powers to be dont care about. When the season starts lets hope that the Bills play well and we can watch out team in the playoffs.

[billrooter]

"because the same coaches that he played under when he was good are not good any longer."

 

No, Jauron and company always sucked as offensive leaders/teachers.

 

You are acting like players never develop or regress over time.

 

Time of expsoure to bad coaching is a factor you have ignored.

 

 

J.P. Losman was the NFL's 11th rated passer the first year of Jauron's tenure. He steadily regressed under their direction.

 

Trent Edwards was a well-regarded draft pick who impressed experts arround the league in his first showing and after with his quick decision making and pinpoint accuracy.

 

He didn't start out tentative. His mental game trended downward every season under the old regime.

 

It's possible it's too late for him - he's damaged goods now. It's also possible it's just a coincidence that both he and Losman regressed and there was nothing there that can be improved with better coaching.

 

However, it's probable since Losman also regressed, and Jauron has a track-record of bad offense, that it was the bad coaching that caused Edwards to regress and therefore possible he will rebound with the better offensive coach.

awesome post and i agree completely!

[disco]

Yeah, but you're being too generous. You can win a super bowl with mediocre QB play.

 

Numerous super bowls have been won by mediocre QB's. Do people really think Trent Dilfer was the engine behind the 2001 Ravens? Brad Johnson with the Buc's? Jeff Hostetler beat the Bills? Really? I kind of thought it was Otis Anderson and the defense (and Kelly being an idiot not giving the ball to Thuman more).

 

When you include the losing SB teams - my goodness: Rex Grossman, Franchise QB for the Bears? Really?? Stan Humphries? Neil O'Donnell?? David Woodley??

 

Does a top QB help? Of course. Can a top QB win by themselves? How many SB wins did Marino have?

 

Defense wins championships. Offensive Lines make everything work on both offense and defense (by keeping the D off the field for a rest). QB's RB's and WR's are just the icing on the cake that get all the glory and the girls for scoring the TD's.

 

Uhhh no. This is beyond a bit of a stretch. Winning a SB with mediocre QB play is NOT easy and is EXTREMELY rare. Particularly in today's era when rules favor passing. Let's take your examples:

 

1. Trent Dilfer - Yes, though the Ravens also had one of, if not THE best defenses of all time.

2. Brad Johnson - Tampa had one of, if not the best defense that year. And, Johnson benefited from playing Rich Gannon who managed to throw FIVE picks, THREE of which were returned for TDs. (Tampa did have a great D)

3. Jeff Hostetler - What can I say, Scott Norwood gave the man a Super Bowl.

 

In other words, yes, if you can compile either one of the best defenses in the history of the game OR hope a kicker makes the most memorable missed field goal of all time...you might be able to win a Super Bowl. Guess what? Having a great QB is a much easier path. And really, the mere fact that you were only able to come up with 3 names proves the point.

 

Let's fill in the rest of the SB winning teams QBs from the last 20 years:

 

2009 - Drew Brees (117 QB Rating)

2008 - Ben R (93 QB Rating, 1st Round Pick)

2007 - Eli Manning (87 Rating, 1st Round)

2006 - P manning (81 Rating, 1st Rd, ~Top 3 QB of All time)

2005 - Ben R (22 Rating, 1st Round Pick - should have lost. See Bill Leavy)

2004 - T Brady (110 Rating, ~Top 5 QB All Time)

2003 - T Brady (102 Rating, ~Top 5 QB All Time)

* 2002 - B Johnson (See Above)

2001 - T Brady (86 Rating, ~Top 5 QB All Time)

* 2000 - T Dilfer (See Above)

1999 - K Warner (97 Rating, Top 3 SB QB All Time)

1998 - J Elway (99 Rating, 1st Round, ~Top 10 QB All Time)

1997 - J Elway (1st Round, ~Top 10 QB All Time)

1996 - B Favre (91 Rating, ~Top 5 QB All Time)

1995 - T Aikman (108 Rating, 1st Round, ~Top 10 QB All Time)

1994 - S Young (134 Rating, ~Top 10 QB All Time)

1993 - T Aikman (77 Rating, 1st Round, ~Top 10 QB All Time)

1992 - T Aikman (140 Rating, 1st Round, ~Top 10 QB All Time)

1991 - M Rypien (92 Rating, 14-2 QB that year w/ 98 Rating)

*1990 - J Hostetler (93 Rating, See Above. This name should say Jim Kelly, HOF QB)

 

Do you really want to stick to mediocre QB play wins championships? Of that list of 20 SB winners, 16 were by not only good QBs - but GREAT QBs. Current of future HOF QBs. 50% were by 1st round picks, 25% by 1st overall picks.

 

The chances of success in today's NFL without a great QB are extremely slim. Sure, it's been done, but it's a rare exception to the rule. It's not realistic to pretend otherwise.

[BobChalmers]

3. Jeff Hostetler - What can I say, Scott Norwood gave the man a Super Bowl.

 

Dude - you shot your credibility to heck with that comment.

 

Kelly's ego lost that game. Norwood was just the poor guy holding the bag at the end.

 

Jimbo hands off to Thurman another 5-10 times in the second half, the Bills win in a laugher. Thomas averaged 10 yards a carry, but Kelly eitehr wanted the MVP for himself, or didn't realize Tuna was daring him to run it.

 

Either way, blaming Norwood for missing a kick at the edge of his range, off of natural grass, is not knowing the team or game.

 

As for the QB's - sure - I said it helps to have a stud QB, obviously, but I'd suggest a lot of those QB's weren't much without a great OL and D.

 

You're giving Elway credit? By the time the Broncos actually won the SB, he was way past his prime and the second option on that offense - that was Terrell Davis' offense. When Elway was putting up the big HoF numbers, the Broncos were getting blown out in the SB or before.

 

Aikman was a talent comnig out of college, but again, he was 2nd fiddle on the Dallas SB teams to Emmitt Smith and their famously massive OL. They didn't throw the ball that much.

 

Rypien was a stiff. He was playing behind the best OL ever that year. They allowed just 11 sacks that year - ALL SEASON! I'm pretty sure any of our QB's has shown as much or more already than Rypien had to that point.

 

Love your Rypien stat: 14-2. Yeah duh, so I guess if you give QB's credit for wins, then they are responsible for winning teams - nice circular logic you've got there. But Rypien just proves my point more - noone had ever heard of the guy before or since - he rode a great team, and played just well enough not to screw it up.

[disco]

Dude - you shot your credibility to heck with that comment.

 

Kelly's ego lost that game. Norwood was just the poor guy holding the bag at the end.

 

Jimbo hands off to Thurman another 5-10 times in the second half, the Bills win in a laugher. Thomas averaged 10 yards a carry, but Kelly eitehr wanted the MVP for himself, or didn't realize Tuna was daring him to run it.

 

Either way, blaming Norwood for missing a kick at the edge of his range, off of natural grass, is not knowing the team or game.

 

As for the QB's - sure - I said it helps to have a stud QB, obviously, but I'd suggest a lot of those QB's weren't much without a great OL and D.

 

You're giving Elway credit? By the time the Broncos actually won the SB, he was way past his prime and the second option on that offense - that was Terrell Davis' offense. When Elway was putting up the big HoF numbers, the Broncos were getting blown out in the SB or before.

 

Aikman was a talent comnig out of college, but again, he was 2nd fiddle on the Dallas SB teams to Emmitt Smith and their famously massive OL. They didn't throw the ball that much.

 

Rypien was a stiff. He was playing behind the best OL ever that year. They allowed just 11 sacks that year - ALL SEASON! I'm pretty sure any of our QB's has shown as much or more already than Rypien had to that point.

 

Love your Rypien stat: 14-2. Yeah duh, so I guess if you give QB's credit for wins, then they are responsible for winning teams - nice circular logic you've got there. But Rypien just proves my point more - noone had ever heard of the guy before or since - he rode a great team, and played just well enough not to screw it up.

 

In all honesty, no, I don't blame Norwood, but if he makes the kick, another HOF QB goes on the list.

 

Adding Rypien into your list doesn't help prove your point at all. 14-2 was mentioned because, yes, he was a key reason for that. Great Oline or not, he still threw for 28TDs that year, and was a two time pro bowler. I live in DC, I watched ever game he played. No, he's not a great, but he also doesn't belong in your list. His play was far above mediocre. I see him as middle of the road. Either way, I didn't include him in the end result - 80% of the QBs to win the Super Bowl in the last 20 years are in or will be in the HOF.

 

My argument isn't that you shouldn't have a great O line or a great D. My argument is there's plenty of teams that have had either or both, but it's not a coincidence that the SB winners also had GREAT QBs. 80% HOFs in the last 20 years is how I back that up. You've gotta give me more than "duh" and "he was a stiff" or "Aikman relied on Emmitt!" If you don't accept HOF as an appropriate measure of greatness, I've got nothing else to point to.

[Geno Smith's Arm]

We have Trent. He used to be good untill he got knocked out and then wasnt because the same coaches that he played under when he was good are not good any longer.

We have Fitz. He wasnt very good for the other team he was with but we thought he was our answer to all our prayers and then he wasnt and it has nothing to do with the coaches he had then as evidenced by his play in preseason this year.

We have Brian. He was so good that another team put him on there practice squad and the worthless regeam that we had when he was stolen made a good choice even though they couldnt do anything else right.

Finally we have Brown.......Thats all I got about him.

 

Not sure about you all but I think that the main thing here is can this coaching staff make something out of a has been or a Jonnie come lately or an abducted not proven throwaway or finally a ......I dont know

 

 

Is it some unspoken secret that the Bills QB's are weak? What do you propose they should do about it? It's too late to draft one.

 

Here is another secret, the Bills aren't going to the Super Bowl this season.