Should we hope the bills lose games, like Jerry Sullivan said?

[Delete This Account]

Shouldn't you be having a few drinks and dinner right now? Or are you?

just got back. had a nice evening. hossage, curiously, wasn't invited. guess it's a wide-ranging ban.

 

jw

[sllib olaffub]

You don't hope to lose. You play the very best you can, and you see where the team is weakest, and you fix it with the draft and free agency. I agree that if there is a franchise QB, then you trade up to get him, or a LT, or whatever it is. You can walk away from an offseason with two or three positional upgrades - even if it includes QB and LT.

We can accept they didn't go crazy this year because the new staff had to see what it had first, before it traded for a player only to find out it already had a good one at that position. So, they went safe and just grabbed the most talented player available. But, going into next season, if we know we still need a QB and LT, and maybe a LB and WR - we trade up, we spend on free agents, we do whatever - and we don't leave available talent that we need as an upgrade out there. (I still can't believe we didn't go after Tony Washington - the college LT who had a thing with his sister once when he was 16 - he was supposed to have a first round talent and went undrafted - and the Cowboys grabbed him).

The one thing that might hurt that scenario is if there is a rookie wage scale implemented and the lack of super high first round money doesn't deter better teams from trading up, also. Either way, we do what we have to and can do to make the team as good as possible. Of course, if there are like seven or more legitimate holes, then you might not be able to fill that in an offseason. But, I'm hoping we have enough talent that three or four seriously talented players will put us up there with the better teams. Maybe we won't need that much! Maybe we'll surprise us all this year!

[Adam]

The real losers in this are the ones who read Sullivan's plebeanic drivel. It isn't worth the paper it is printed on. Hopefully the Buffalo News will join the many newspapers that have found there way to the scrap heap over the last couple years.

[Hossage]

just got back. had a nice evening. hossage, curiously, wasn't invited. guess it's a wide-ranging ban.

jw

 

Have a little class, professional journalist John Wawrow.

 

Want to hear a witty put down, John? You were not invited out to dinner with me tonight! What a gas that line is! I bet you have to be a professional journalist to come up with something like that.

 

In fact, I would say it is a wide-ranging band, except I have no idea what you are referring to. I guess if I was a professional journalist, I would understand it.

 

You mentioned a couple days ago you were going out to dinner with Jerry Sullivan tonight. Can I come next time? I sure am glad to have an unbiased professional journalist like you around, one who will speak the truth even when it may conflict with his personal life.

 

Either way, John, I think I will see you around town sometime. I am really looking forward to meeting a real professional like you.

[Koufax]

You Never Ever hope to lose. What if the players were ok with it? Why even practice, why even show up to games.

 

We have new players who want to fight and win. We didn't draft pansies.

 

Solid drafting and the option of trading up should always trump any benefits of tanking a season for a high draft pick.

 

Only losers would ever think losing is ok.

 

+1

 

Even in game 16 of a lost season, hope your team wins. I will say it again and again: the experience of winning football games for the 30+ guys who will return always matters more than a slot or two in the crap shoot. Is Luck Manning or Leaf? There are so many busts of top 5 QBs and many success stories later, that throwing a whole season down the drain and every hoping for a loss even a single game much less a whole season is completely foolish and also embarrassing.

 

And I still don't have the slightest idea why people think that this team is worse than the team it took a perfect storm to drop to 6-10. This team is a middle of the pack team from 5 to 9 wins, and with those numbers draft position doesn't matter as much as decision making.

 

I would rather have Trent succeed surprise, etc, and have us a month in to the season realize how nice it is not to have Mauron in charge. I don't mind that others are setting the bar very low, but I will put my dollar down on the over for the season.

[Orton's Arm]

Yup...I agree...I'm rooting for a high draft pick and a potential franchise qb. It's obvious this team isn't anywhere close to being a playoff team and the difference between 7-9 and 5-10 in terms of building a team is negligible. It can't be any worse than what we've had the last ten years. I want this flux between 5-11 and 9-7 to stop.

Agreed. This team doesn't have a quarterback, and it needs one. If a top 5 draft pick is what it takes to eliminate that source of pain, and to turn it into a constant source of strength, then so be it.

 

On another note, many players currently on the team will need to be replaced over the next two to three years. Some are nearing retirement, others are simply fill-ins until we get real replacements out there, etc. Building a "winning culture" for a player who won't be here two years from now seems like an exercise in futility; or at least in short-term thinking. It's better to get the right people on the team--which in this case means early draft picks--than it is to sacrifice draft position in an attempt to create instant cultural change.

 

Take the Colts, for example. They were able to draft Peyton Manning because they went 1-15 the previous season. Do you think Manning's presence on the Colts helps create a winning culture? I do! If the Colts' 1-15 season had been 6-10 or 7-9 instead, Manning would be quarterbacking some other team; and the Colts would have far less of a winning culture than they do today.

[Adam]

Agreed. This team doesn't have a quarterback, and it needs one. If a top 5 draft pick is what it takes to eliminate that source of pain, and to turn it into a constant source of strength, then so be it.

 

On another note, many players currently on the team will need to be replaced over the next two to three years. Some are nearing retirement, others are simply fill-ins until we get real replacements out there, etc. Building a "winning culture" for a player who won't be here two years from now seems like an exercise in futility; or at least in short-term thinking. It's better to get the right people on the team--which in this case means early draft picks--than it is to sacrifice draft position in an attempt to create instant cultural change.

 

Take the Colts, for example. They were able to draft Peyton Manning because they went 1-15 the previous season. Do you think Manning's presence on the Colts helps create a winning culture? I do! If the Colts' 1-15 season had been 6-10 or 7-9 instead, Manning would be quarterbacking some other team; and the Colts would have far less of a winning culture than they do today.

Hey- I have a brilliant idea! Let's just get the top pick every year. Forget the season, forget the playoffs. We can sell season tickets to the Draft.

 

If you have to have a top 10 pick to have a shot at a player, then you don't have a good group of scouts. Scouting wins championships.

 

We probably win 3-4 games this year, but if we win more, I'd be ecstatic. Winning builds a winning mentality. Some people just don't get it.

 

I have worked at the NCAA Division I, II, and III levels, a NJCAA institution and the NFL. Winning leads to winning. That's the way it is and the way it always will be.

[bowery4]

Hey- I have a brilliant idea! Let's just get the top pick every year. Forget the season, forget the playoffs. We can sell season tickets to the Draft.

The Detroit model?

 

I am blocking the Hossage and MPL (whatever numbers he uses) posts so I don't know or care what they say but John put part of the chat (w/o edit) and too fat pig poop, just proves he is an internet troll right there. I wish he would be banned here too. Then I wouldn't be reading this. Anyway Jerry has an opinion just like everyone, and a butthole just like everyone the difference is you guys engage his and so he gets paid for it unlike hossage. Although I might be willing to pay him NOT to add his TROLLing crap to every thread posted on here. JW gets my props for sticking up for his friend and colleage but I would have given up on arguing with this particular poster long ago, no one cares what he thinks anyway. And if he was AS's friend (which I doubt btw) he was prob just his yard guy or gas pumper or something. Why bother just block him like I do.

[Delete This Account]

The real losers in this are the ones who read Sullivan's plebeanic drivel. It isn't worth the paper it is printed on. Hopefully the Buffalo News will join the many newspapers that have found there way to the scrap heap over the last couple years.

well, that's a little uncalled for and quite mean, wishing many good people to lose their jobs because you have a problem with one writer.

 

jw

[jwhit34]

Two issues here:

 

(1) Journalists: Some of the realities that writers are facing today are:

(a) Print newspapers are moving closer and closer to extinction, thus threatening their jobs;

(b) The reading public has a lot more opportunities to give feedback in a very public way;

© To attract readers/bloggers, etc. they have to be more provocrative or controversial

 

As a result, they tend to take more extreme views on things and can be more sensitive to criticism. Sullivan is a good writer but he now has created a rather cantankerous persona through his columns and radio spots on WGR, and I think he feels some obligation to live up to that reputation. Unfortunately, overshadows his writing, which generally is good, whether you agree with him or not.

 

(2) Tanking the season for high draft picks: If this was the formula for success then the LA Clippers in the NBA would be a dynasty. The draft is a crapshoot, especially when it comes to QBs. In addition to that, players and coaches are always going to try to win.

 

Now, the question here really is what do we do as fans. As a fan, I don't think you root for a team to lose. There is a lot to be said about creating a culture of winning. The Denny Green line "They are who we thought they are" (or something to that effect) is true. I think we root for the team and look for signs that the team is on the road to improvement. When it comes draft time you use the picks to get better. If you really like a QB and your pick is too low you go and make the deal.

 

The reality is that a lot of the poor teams have their QBs for the future (Lions, Bucs, Raiders, Rams, maybe even Browns) so if the Bills win games and end up in that 8-13 range they may have natural trade partners ahead of them.

[Adam]

well, that's a little uncalled for and quite mean, wishing many good people to lose their jobs because you have a problem with one writer.

 

jw

Nah. Maybe poorly worded, but not mean. The Buffalo News, like the other papers won't close completely, it would still be online and many of the people would find employment elsewhere fairly easily in the media world.

 

Even Sullivan would find another job, as people who do the job he does of irritating people seems to be the most important job nowadays, which is a shame. What people need to realize, is that he, like the evil muppets on wgr 55, play characters and aren't really bad people when they get to be themselves.

[dave mcbride]

Nah. Maybe poorly worded, but not mean. The Buffalo News, like the other papers won't close completely, it would still be online and many of the people would find employment elsewhere fairly easily in the media world.

 

Even Sullivan would find another job, as people who do the job he does of irritating people seems to be the most important job nowadays, which is a shame. What people need to realize, is that he, like the evil muppets on wgr 55, play characters and aren't really bad people when they get to be themselves.

This is factually incorrect. The decline of the newspaper industry has been accompanied by a huge loss in employment in that sector. People aren't willing to pay for media online, and online ad revenues are paltry compared to print advertising. That's not going to change.

[Malazan]

Seriously, why isn't hossage banned?

[Adam]

Seriously, why isn't hossage banned?

I don't usually agree with Hossage, but I can't understand why someone would want him banned. This is a discussion board after all, not a daily affirmation.

 

What he said didn't warrant being banned from the chat either. What Sullivan did is the equivalent of a radio guy hanging up on someone who can refute his arguement.

[Thurman#1]

Yeah...I see your point... It's just that I've played a ton of sports when I was younger. The entire concept that somehow losing could be a good thing for any team is so foreign to me...kinda perverted actually. I can't imagine any athlete or any coach agreeing with Jerry Sullivan on this matter. It goes against anything I've ever been taught by any coach, and it makes me think that Sullivan has never played sports. I suppose that shouldn't disqualify him from being a sportswriter, but I am certain former athletes make better sportswriters & sportscasters. Anyone that's ever been in the heat of battle would never say to themselves or out loud, "we'll be better off down the road if we lose now."

 

 

 

And again, we're not talking about what they should be thinking in the heat of battle. We're talking about fan opinions.

[turftoe]

Scooby Doo playing Orphan Annie:

 

Towawrow... Towawrow... I love ya Towawrow....

[bills44]

Who is worse: Sullivan or Gleason?

 

Are we allowed to criticize Gleason here, or is that also taboo?

[Thurman#1]

Exactly. That's what the morons who think they should tank the season (by the way, I'd love to see Sully tell Bills players that. I'd pay to watch that.). A high pick guarantees nothing.

 

Romo (UDFA)

Brady (6th)

Warner (UDFA)

Hasselback (6th)

Brees (2nd)

Schaub (3rd)

Garrad (4th)

 

These are pro bowl QBs. But obviously, the only place to find a franchise QB is with a high draft pick. I hate Sullivan. He is the voice of the miserable.

 

 

Come on, get a clue here. Of course a high pick guarantees nothing. Did Sully say it did? Did anyone say it did? Did Sully say "obviously, the only place to find a franchise QB is with a high draft pick"? Did anyone? These are such straw man arguments. Did Sully say "they should tank the season"? Did anyone? The answer to all these questions is no. And yet you're apparently furious about ... what? ... someone not saying something that makes you angry?

 

What a high pick does is give you a much higher chance at being successful with a draft pick. A much higher chance. And if that means nothing to you, then you shouldn't have any problem with the Bills trading their first rounders for seventh rounders, straight up, over the next few years.

 

Of course higher picks come with a better chance at success. Duh.

[Thurman#1]

When Jerry Sullivan dies, it will be a great day for Bills' Fan and the City of Buffalo.

The man is a world class pessimistic A-Hole and is party to blame for setting the negative tone of Fans in Buffalo.

I will piss on his grave on a regular basis.

 

 

You are a low-life creep.

[Adam]

Who is worse: Sullivan or Gleason?

 

Are we allowed to criticize Gleason here, or is that also taboo?

I dug up an old buffalo news from when we beat KC to go to the superbowl- we had adult writers, like Larry Felser, Milt Joffe and Milt Northrop, who wrote for adult readers.

 

Sullivan writes for angry children....