Should we hope the bills lose games, like Jerry Sullivan said?

[Thurman#1]

But he also said that even after nine years he never got to know Schobel. That speaks volumes to me. Sullivan is a blowhard prima-donna who can't be bothered to do a little legwork.

 

 

 

He tried. Schobel was a bit of an enigma to the press. And there's nothing wrong with that.

 

I think Schobel was the Bills best player for years. But you didn't read a lot of interviews. He was a private guy. That had nothing to do with legwork.

[Hossage]

Disagreeing with you is not a lack of professionalism. Seriously.

 

Sullivan didn't say he "wants a team to go out and throw the game."

 

He didn't even come close to saying that, nor would he ever, I'm betting. Wanting a team to lose and wanting a team to throw the game are two totally different concepts.

 

Come on, man, I don't care if he agrees with me. Every year he says maybe we should hope the bills lose to get better draft picks. I just cant stomach that.

 

Ok, Thurman, if you think that is professional, you can have your opinion.

[Thurman#1]

And your opinion, and the reaction of your stomach, is fair enough, it's your opinion.

 

His opinion is legit too. I agree with him, though I definitely can understand your feelings on this. But you said he was unprofessional to have that opinion. He's not. He's just a guy with a word processor and an opinion. That's what a reporter is, when they write or do editorial stuff like this.

 

 

My feeling is that I root for them to make the playoffs and when it's not possible, I root for them to lose games so they'll make the playoffs the next year or the next. This year is the first year in a long long time when I think starting out that they have no playoff shot whatsoever.

[Zulu Cthulhu]

And your opinion, and the reaction of your stomach, is fair enough, it's your opinion.

 

His opinion is legit too. I agree with him, though I definitely can understand your feelings on this. But you said he was unprofessional to have that opinion. He's not. He's just a guy with a word processor and an opinion. That's what a reporter is, when they write or do editorial stuff like this.

 

 

My feeling is that I root for them to make the playoffs and when it's not possible, I root for them to lose games so they'll make the playoffs the next year or the next. This year is the first year in a long long time when I think starting out that they have no playoff shot whatsoever.

 

You two have been all over the board for the last week. Anyways, I used to hate Sully too, read my history and you'll see that. But after awhile, you start to understand what his angle is. Sullivan is like the the Bill O'Reilly (or Ann Coulter) of Bills football. He's not a reporter. Too many people look at him as a "reporter" and read his columns and get pissed off. He's a commentator, or, in cable news-speak, an "analyst." His job is to get you and I pissed off. You and I get pissed off, and go online here (and other places) and complain how pissed off we are. In turn we link to his BS to show others how pissed off we are, and TBN and everyone wins. Best way to get back at Sully?: keep his name out your mouth. He is relishing this **** right now.

[Hplarrm]

He wrote a very good piece on Schobel. Did a good job describing the inconsistencies of his career.

And Clayton broke the Spiller signing.

Bad day for the Haters.

A couple of good columns should not create a bad day for anyone. Even a broken clock is right twice a day so a good column from time to time does not invalidate a solid record of poor writing and thinking.

 

As a columnist rather than a journalist Sullivan's job is to attract attention and have folks talk and care about his stuff. He does that in a perverse George Bush kind of way. Bush took the presidency with the goal of uniting huge groups and forging unprecedented agreement among vast swaths of people. He did unite people with him leading the country into an unneeded war and imploding the economy that everyone agreed he was an idiot.

 

Sullivan also has proven to a wide group of folks that often disagree about things that he is an idiot.

[Thurman#1]

Losing is NEVER a remedy for a competitor. What if they lose games and their "franchise" QB turns out to be Ryan Leaf? Or Tim Couch? Or Jamarcus Russell.

 

 

Or Peyton Manning. Or Matt Ryan.

 

Of course every draft pick is a crapshoot. But the further up the draft you go, the better your odds. You still have to make a good pick. But the odds of getting a chance at guys who have better chances of being great go up.

 

Losing is absolutely a remedy for a competitor. When we got OJ Simpson, it meant we became a better team. Same with Bruce Smith. The only reason we got those two was that we lost - an awful lot - the year before.

 

 

 

I expect the Bills to win just like I do every year, and damn it, everybody in that organization better be expecting the same thing.

 

 

Why do people throw up this straw man argument every time. Do you seriously think that Sully, or me, wanting the Bills to have a bad season is going to affect anyone at OBD? You think they're reading Sully and saying, "Gee, he has a point. I think we should lose and I won't give my all, even though my obscenely high salary depends on my playing (or GMing or coaching or ...) at a very high level."

 

Come on. The argument is only about fans desires and what would be better for the long-term prospects of the team. Nobody wants the Bills to not play their hardest.

[Thurman#1]

You two have been all over the board for the last week. Anyways, I used to hate Sully too, read my history and you'll see that. But after awhile, you start to understand what his angle is. Sullivan is like the the Bill O'Reilly (or Ann Coulter) of Bills football. He's not a reporter. Too many people look at him as a "reporter" and read his columns and get pissed off. He's a commentator, or, in cable news-speak, an "analyst." His job is to get you and I pissed off. You and I get pissed off, and go online here (and other places) and complain how pissed off we are. In turn we link to his BS to show others how pissed off we are, and TBN and everyone wins. Best way to get back at Sully?: keep his name out your mouth. He is relishing this **** right now.

 

 

Sully is just saying what he thinks.

 

His motivation is obvious, and it's even in the chat. He was asked:

 

"[Comment From Adam]

Why does it seem like our only two professional sports teams have the worst decision makers in sports at the helm? I don't want to sound like Chicken Little, but holy crap, choosing between the Brandon/Modrak/Buddy pupu platter and the Regeir and Quinn cruddy combo is no easy feat,"

 

and he replied:

 

"Sully: This might spur some hostile debate, but I think it has something to do with the fans showing up regardless. Also, I think a more vigorous and critical media would help."

 

To some extent, I agree, though I have to disagree about the "fans showing up" argument. If the fans don't show up, the teams might not either and we might be talking about the L.A. Bills.

 

He's saying that when the media act like lapdogs, in the long run, it's not good for the team. He wants to be as honest as he can and if that includes negative stuff sometimes (like for the past ten years or so), well, it's welll-deserved by the Bills.

[Zulu Cthulhu]

Sully is just saying what he thinks.

 

His motivation is obvious, and it's even in the chat. He was asked:

 

[Comment From Adam]

Why does it seem like our only two professional sports teams have the worst decision makers in sports at the helm? I don't want to sound like Chicken Little, but holy crap, choosing between the Brandon/Modrak/Buddy pupu platter and the Regeir and Quinn cruddy combo is no easy feat,

 

and he replied:

 

Sully: This might spur some hostile debate, but I think it has something to do with the fans showing up regardless. Also, I think a more vigorous and critical media would help.

 

To some extent, I agree, though I have to disagree about the"fans showing up" argument. If the fans don't show up, the teams might not either and we might be talking about the L.A. Bills.

 

He's saying that when the media act like lapdogs, in the long run, it's not good for the team. He wants to be as honest as he can and if that includes negative stuff sometimes (like for the past ten years or so), well, it's welll-deserved by the Bills.

 

I agree with you Thurman and that doesn't change my point though. Sully's version of being negative is different than Allan Wilson's version. Wilson's just points out the team's !@#$-ups, Sully rolls around in them and grows a bone and tells you about it. And that is OK. He is, like I said, a commentator. He is paid to inject his bias and attitude into his column. The sooner people realize that, and realize that they are sick of his point of view, the sooner we will all be rid of him. Don't read, don't cite, call TBN, tell them you hate him. Enough people do it and problem solved.

[Thurman#1]

Ok, Thurman, if you think that is professional, you can have your opinion.

 

 

Neither your opinion nor mine have anything to do with whether anything is unprofessional. The standards that matter are those of the industry and the employer.

 

Anybody think that the Buffalo News is going to call Sully in and talk to him about this because they don't want him writing stuff like that? Would any newspaper? No.

 

It's not unprofessional. There are plenty of other negative words to use about behavior like this, and while I'm likely to disagree with most of them, I'd at least respect the opinion. What he did is not unprofessional. His sin is largely disagreeing with you.

[billsfan89]

Sorry but this years team is better then last years team which won 5 games plus a game against the Colts B and C team. Right now I think that this team is if somethings go right and somethings go wrong a 6-7 win team on paper. Our D is a lot better then last year (Byrd man a year under his belt, McKelvin coming back, and our front 7 is bigger and more equipped to stop the run and can't get much worse then last year) and the offense is about the same (Spiller in TO out the rest is similar).

 

So how much has this team taken a step down to lose 2 games? If the D has seen improvements and the offense is about the same? Unless massive injuries and bad luck hit this team we aren't going to be a 4 win team. I think 7-9 is a good estimate.

[Thurman#1]

I agree with you Thurman and that doesn't change my point though. Sully's version of being negative is different than Allan Wilson's version. Wilson's just points out the team's !@#$-ups, Sully rolls around in them and grows a bone and tells you about it. And that is OK. He is, like I said, a commentator. He is paid to inject his bias and attitude into his column. The sooner people realize that, and realize that they are sick of his point of view, the sooner we will all be rid of him. Don't read, don't cite, call TBN, tell them you hate him. Enough people do it and problem solved.

 

 

 

Heh heh. Well-written.

 

One of his roles is certainly commentating. The thing is, I don't think most people do hate him. Certainly there are a few, and they're vocal. But, hey, let's agree to disagree.

[Thurman#1]

Sorry but this years team is better then last years team which won 5 games plus a game against the Colts B and C team.

 

 

 

Sorry, but what you have there is an opinion, not a fact.

 

Nothing wrong with opinions, except when you present them as facts.

[billsfan89]

Sorry, but what you have there is an opinion, not a fact.

 

Nothing wrong with opinions, except when you present them as facts.

 

Worded it wrong but in my opinion this team is as good or better then last years team ;besides Schobel and TO what has this team lost? They added Spiller on offense and added a lot to the front 7 viva the draft and free agency. I also say our coaching is better on top of that.

[Thurman#1]

Sullivan has balls calling out the Bills for having a loser's mentality, then he suggests they tank games for a draft pick. If you have good scouting you don't need a high daft pick to find players. The Bills will be better served learning how to win now than act like they're doing everyone a favor by losing.

 

Sorry John, but this is what I hate about Sully.

 

PTR

 

 

Could you just take a moment and quickly link us to where Sully "suggests they tank games for a draft pick."

[Thurman#1]

nothing has spawned more heated debate in the history of sports forums than this question right here

 

it all boils down to fans getting confused regarding their role and how it relates to the team

 

in short:

 

- coaches have to coach every game trying as hard as they can to win every time no matter what

- players have to prepare every game like its the superbowl of superbowls no matter what

- fans can do whatever the hell they want cuz it has absolutely no bearing on the coaches, the players, or the outcome of the game

 

thus i will do what i have done every season for decades: root for the bills to win until they are mathematically eliminated from playoff contention and then hope they lose

 

so sometime shortly after game eight or nine i suspect my motto for the remainder of the season will be: just lose baby

 

 

 

Exactly. Nice post.

[Zulu Cthulhu]

Heh heh. Well-written.

 

One of his roles is certainly commentating. The thing is, I don't think most people do hate him. But, hey, let's agree to disagree.

 

Ha thx and no I don't really disagree with you. I guess that is what I was trying to get at in a roundabout way. Sully's negativity is compelling is a morbid sort of way. He does a good job of condensing the frustrations we all feel about the team's problems into a nice, neat little column. Is it entertaining for the masochists out there? Sure. Is it always accurate and on-point and helpful? IMO, not so much.

[sharper802]

Sullivan is retarded. He quotes himself in his own articles and repeats the same themes over and over.

[Thurman#1]

Worded it wrong but in my opinion this team is as good or better then last years team ;besides Schobel and TO what has this team lost? They added Spiller on offense and added a lot to the front 7 viva the draft and free agency. I also say our coaching is better on top of that.

 

 

Fair enough.

 

I'd agree with the coaching, but we had a pretty easy schedule last year, and it's likely to be harder this year. Also, when you change systems, it takes time to adapt and get used to it. When you change positions (Kyle Williams, Aaron Maybin, Marcus Stroud and Kelsay), you need the same time to adapt, but there is also a question of whether you have the physical and mental makeup to play the new position. I would guess Kelsay will not be on the team next year and Stroud will succeed, and I don't know what will happen with the other two. Also, you minimized the effect of losing TO and Schobel, IMHO, particularly when we didn't do anything to replace them (for this year anyway). That is our (arguably) best WR and our best defensive player and our only good sack artist. Those are big losses.

 

That's the argument. I think we've summed up both sides fairly well.

[BillsFanM.D.]

What is it with sports columnists and their diva sensitivities these days? Would Oscar Madison get all prissy?

 

I can't believe I just read this whole thread....and no one responds to the Oscar Madison reference? To answer your question....he wouldn't even be out of bed on time to do the 'chat' and he would only participate if he could use his typewriter. No internet for that guy.

 

Great reference to a great show.

http://www.evtv1.com/player.aspx?itemnum=5118

[Delete This Account]

Wawrow, I feel I have described the discussion accurately. Sullivan went on and took shots at the bills in other ways. He sounds like mpl6876. You have missed some context as well, but I do not know how to link the entire conversation, even though I saved it. Your personal crusade against me is getting old. You know full well everything I have said on this site about Schobel is true, and you still take shots at me on other threads. You have resorted to petty name calling with me. I am surprised you do this because you are a professional journalist.

 

Go on, call me an untrustworthy blowhard again. I would have expected more from you, but after your defense of Jerry Sullivan in this and other posts, I should have known better.

 

You have misrepresented my remarks, taking my statements out of context. Only one of us is untrustworthy.

 

Here are his extended remarks on the subject in the proper context. Consider there is a two minute delay from when I type an answer to when it shows up.

don't flatter yourself. this isn't any type of crusade. in recent days, it's become apparent to me that you've exposed yourself as a fraud. and i'd like to share my opinions on that regard with this community given how you've attempted to lead them astray by misrepresenting yourself and your own bloated and self-aggrandizing agenda.

 

though i don't doubt you've had interaction with Aaron Schobel, i find it wildly strange that you would use that relationship to post what i'm sure were "off the record" comments here on this board. tell me, was Aaron aware of your intentions? or did you get home, fire up your computer and, rubbing your greasy hands, figure you had yourself some kinda scoop to share how "in" you are with a bills player?

 

second, you came crying to this board by opening this thread in which you claim to have been wrong-done by Jerry Sullivan, and make an array of accusations about his respect to the game of football and state that he cheats at golf. you then pin your point on YOUR description of how things went down by conveniently leaving out a few key details, which i and others here have found to be quite enlightening.

 

why, may i ask, did you not include the two sentences in Jerry's response that i provided? you seem capable of posting the entire chat, and yet you were unable in your initial post to include two sentences? how strange that you found those two sentences immaterial. and let's not forget the fact you neglected to note that you called yourself "porkbellie fat fat" and totally disregarded the other back-and-forth you had with Jerry in which he said "they've played hard for four years."

 

would it be possible to infer that you, by your actions, were attempting to steer this board in one direction? well, of course.

 

you have mischaracterized the truth here, and even when caught, attempt to convince us that you've done nothing wrong, which leads me to the conclusion that you are not just a blowhard and untrustworthy, but also obtuse and impervious to reason.

 

jw