eball Posted August 6, 2010 Author Posted August 6, 2010 A fine secondary with little to no pass rush is of little benefit when defending the pass. This is especially true when run defense is your greater problem, and there's no certainty that has been improved despite switching from T2 4-3 to a 3-4. Haven't we been over this in the past few years? Well you certainly qualify as one of the most pessimistic fans, so I stand corrected.
bills in va Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 Yes, I know, they're only playing against our anemic offense right now, but even the most pessimistic fan has to be pleasantly surprised by reports of how this D is coming together this early in camp. Could it be that we really DO have the players and talent for the front seven in the 3-4, and one of the best secondaries in football? Nasty defense, strong running game...these sound like the ingredients for a successful team in WNY. Let's see how we look next Friday in Washington and then we'll talk.
purple haze Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 A fine secondary with little to no pass rush is of little benefit when defending the pass. This is especially true when run defense is your greater problem, and there's no certainty that has been improved despite switching from T2 4-3 to a 3-4. Haven't we been over this in the past few years? Luckily for us last season is over and they're starting a new one. We shall see what they do. First live action is next week.
Meathead Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 theyll be nasty all right. nasty bad - 27th or worse in run defense ironically and to the surprise of many people the offense will be pretty good, likely middle of the pack. but the inability to stop running backs from going absolutely wild will kill the season four wins
H2o Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 The defense will be good, top 12 I believe, but the offense will again be the root of our problems.
BillsVet Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 Well you certainly qualify as one of the most pessimistic fans, so I stand corrected. I don't see how it's pessimistic to keep trusing Ralph to put a winner on the field these past 10 years. The track record is what it is.
ganesh Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 Last year was the Packers first year in a 3-4 and they upgraded from 20th to 2 in total yards given up. In fact, it is a very similar situation to ours. They have a very good secondary and had to changed soem pieces. Their best pass rusher struggled as a 3-4 OLB and eventually got hurt early in the season. So, it really isn't out of the question to see a big improvement in hte first year of a 3-4. Especially plugging in a 1st round corner (McKelvin) and the many draftees from this year. On the contrary, KC also moved to the 3-4 and finished 30th, one position better than the previous year....Just saying.
eball Posted August 6, 2010 Author Posted August 6, 2010 I don't see how it's pessimistic to keep trusing Ralph to put a winner on the field these past 10 years. The track record is what it is. I won't bother trying to explain my comment. You have your agenda, and optimism is not allowed.
folz Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 On the contrary, KC also moved to the 3-4 and finished 30th, one position better than the previous year....Just saying. From Allen Wilson's Buffalo news article http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/article94267.ece : "Denver's switch to the 3-4 helped its defense improve from 29th in the NFL in 2008 to seventh last season. Green Bay's newly installed 3-4 ranked first against the run, fifth against the pass and second overall. The Packers were 20th in total defense while using the 4-3 in 2008. Conversely, Kansas City found little success in its move to the 3-4, ranking 30th in the league (It was 31st in '08). Which category the Bills fall in remains to be seen, but Edwards has no doubt the move to the 3-4 will be a success." So, can we agree that we have to wait and see...switching to the 3-4 (in the first year) does not guarantee success, but it also isn't true that every team that switches has to wait 2-3 years for improvement. And I think one of the biggest positives about switching to the 3-4 is that our offense will be practicing against it on a regular basis (since everyone in our division plays it). I am looking for improvement this year. I think a lot will ride on the OLBs. If a couple guys step up and play well there, I think we could turn into a pretty tough D by mid-season.
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 On the contrary, KC also moved to the 3-4 and finished 30th, one position better than the previous year....Just saying. Fair enough but I think we have way more talent than KC on defense.
Ramius Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 I won't bother trying to explain my comment. You have your agenda, and optimism is not allowed. Don't worry eball. When the Bills win a couple of games, Billlsvet will crawl back under his rock and won't be heard from. His only goal in posting here appears to be to piss on every last little shred of optimism that other fans might express.
Fingon Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 From Allen Wilson's Buffalo news article http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/article94267.ece : "Denver's switch to the 3-4 helped its defense improve from 29th in the NFL in 2008 to seventh last season. Green Bay's newly installed 3-4 ranked first against the run, fifth against the pass and second overall. The Packers were 20th in total defense while using the 4-3 in 2008. Conversely, Kansas City found little success in its move to the 3-4, ranking 30th in the league (It was 31st in '08). Which category the Bills fall in remains to be seen, but Edwards has no doubt the move to the 3-4 will be a success." So, can we agree that we have to wait and see...switching to the 3-4 (in the first year) does not guarantee success, but it also isn't true that every team that switches has to wait 2-3 years for improvement. And I think one of the biggest positives about switching to the 3-4 is that our offense will be practicing against it on a regular basis (since everyone in our division plays it). I am looking for improvement this year. I think a lot will ride on the OLBs. If a couple guys step up and play well there, I think we could turn into a pretty tough D by mid-season. If we are going off history, there is a good chance our defense will be much better. Here is a good read on it: http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...=115847&hl=
mpl6876 Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 Don't worry eball. When the Bills win a couple of games, Billlsvet will crawl back under his rock and won't be heard from. His only goal in posting here appears to be to piss on every last little shred of optimism that other fans might express. That's what I don't get here. His statement was accurate. Why the attack?
VA Bills Fan Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 From BB website about tonight's practice - crazy -- and I know they are facing a weak pass attack, but I believe they are still top 5 in the NFL ------------ All in all it was a heck of a day for the safeties with Byrd (2 INTs), Scott (1 INT, 1 FR) and Whitner (2 INTs) all recording a pair of takeaways on the day. The secondary is looking downright scary for opposing passing games.
Cookiemonster Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 Gotta see that glass as half empty. And our secondary is awesome. Our run defense was brutal last year so we got bigger in our front 7 and added 2 solid 3-4 starters to our defense. If the offense is at least able to avoid 3 and outs every drive, I don't know how our defense won't be improved. Ok then shouldn't that be glass half full! Just Sayin!
sllib olaffub Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 I think a lot of people on this board are hesitant to predict success with the Bills because, well, we've been let down so much any optimism in the recent past has proven unfounded. But, other teams have found success with similar changes, just as quickly as we would like to see. We do, in fact, have players to fit the system - Nix and Gailey aren't going into this season with linebackers undersized or too slow for the position; it's just that some of the linebackers are used to playing DE in 4-3; but, again, that is not uncommon for other teams. I've listed these guys - I'll do it again: Stroud, Carrington, Edwards, Troupe, Williams (who is the same size as Cowboys NT, and who would be picked up by most NFL teams if he were free), Mitchell, Poz, Maybin (who, granted, might be a bust), Moats, Coleman, Batten, Kelsay (who, at the least, is surely big enough for a run stuffing OLB), Torber, Andra Davis - there's enough talent in that front seven to be good, depending on down and distance, with the right personnel on the field, to be good against the run and the pass. Sure, it might not happen. But, I'm saying we have enough guys now - Mitchell, Moats, Poz, and Davis are good enough for the middle. On the outside, I think Batten, Mitchell (if he's put there, he's shown to be a good blitzer), Kelsay - against the run, Torbor - he's decent enough... who knows about Coleman and the other rookies, but I can recall good 3-4 defenses with merely decent linebackers. So, I'm saying I think, considering our secondary, and our defensive line - who I really like this year, especially Troupe, Carrington (who I think is going to turn out to be a steal), Williams, and Edwards. I think we'll end up around 10 in the league.
eball Posted August 7, 2010 Author Posted August 7, 2010 [/b] That's what I don't get here. His statement was accurate. Why the attack? So was ramius' - not that I'd expect a troll to understand.
mpl6876 Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 So was ramius' - not that I'd expect a troll to understand. That's where you and I differ. Why not attack the statement and not the person? Ever think of that? Instead, your reply always has to reference a troll. The troll comments are not very productive. Very immature and shallow but I suppose it will go right over your head?
Chandler#81 Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 3-4 DEs aren't supposed to be pass rushers. the majority of the pass rush comes from the LBs. Mitchell is a very good blitzer. And again, the 3-4 gets you sacks sometimes on jsut flat out confusion rather than overall skill. James Harrison couldn't even get drafted or make a roster early in his career. He is a talented player but Pittsburgh makes him a much better one. I also won't be surprised if Whitner has 4+ sacks. They have been blitzing him quite a bit in camp. Yup. This is a key I think BV and others refuse to comprehend. The old 3-4's of Bruce & P. Hanson rushing from the edge are gone. Every player can rush from the new 3-4. I think one point everyone here can agree on is the quality and depth of our D-backfield. It will present challenges to our opposition, not the least of which will be them concentrating on where Byrd may be in a certain set, only to find him barreling into the backfield on a 3rd & 7. Yup. I've got the fever. -and the only remedy is...
Bob in STL Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 Yes, I know, they're only playing against our anemic offense right now, but even the most pessimistic fan has to be pleasantly surprised by reports of how this D is coming together this early in camp. Could it be that we really DO have the players and talent for the front seven in the 3-4, and one of the best secondaries in football? Nasty defense, strong running game...these sound like the ingredients for a successful team in WNY. I think they can be good but maybe a few playmakers from nasty. They might look good against our offense but that is not much of a measure. The bullets have not started flying yet and we do not have many proven front 7 players in the new 3-4 alignment. That should be a concern.
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