eball Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 Yes, I know, they're only playing against our anemic offense right now, but even the most pessimistic fan has to be pleasantly surprised by reports of how this D is coming together this early in camp. Could it be that we really DO have the players and talent for the front seven in the 3-4, and one of the best secondaries in football? Nasty defense, strong running game...these sound like the ingredients for a successful team in WNY.
bladiebla Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 I'm on the first show it then cheer boat atm tbh.
Thurman#1 Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 Yes, I know, they're only playing against our anemic offense right now, but even the most pessimistic fan has to be pleasantly surprised by reports of how this D is coming together this early in camp. Could it be that we really DO have the players and talent for the front seven in the 3-4, and one of the best secondaries in football? Nasty defense, strong running game...these sound like the ingredients for a successful team in WNY. Anything's possible, but it's worth remembering not only that they're playing our offense, but also that the defense always has the advantage early in camp. Offense requires more exact coordination, so it always takes a while for the offenses (this is an around-the-league phenomenon) to get up to speed. If the defense is still dominating in the third and fourth week, it will start to mean something. IMHO, it will be more of a reflection on how bad our offense is than how good our defense might be.
ganesh Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 Yes, I know, they're only playing against our anemic offense right now, but even the most pessimistic fan has to be pleasantly surprised by reports of how this D is coming together this early in camp. Could it be that we really DO have the players and talent for the front seven in the 3-4, and one of the best secondaries in football? Nasty defense, strong running game...these sound like the ingredients for a successful team in WNY. It all depends on how they are going to stop the Run...If they don't the other teams will run us to death like they have done the past 4 years. Is Kyle Williams and Troup up to the task to stop the bleeding. If they do, then the Bills do have enough players to put the heat on the QB and a very strong secondary to provide the necessary coverage.
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 Anything's possible, but it's worth remembering not only that they're playing our offense, but also that the defense always has the advantage early in camp. Offense requires more exact coordination, so it always takes a while for the offenses (this is an around-the-league phenomenon) to get up to speed. If the defense is still dominating in the third and fourth week, it will start to mean something. IMHO, it will be more of a reflection on how bad our offense is than how good our defense might be. Gotta see that glass as half empty. And our secondary is awesome. Our run defense was brutal last year so we got bigger in our front 7 and added 2 solid 3-4 starters to our defense. If the offense is at least able to avoid 3 and outs every drive, I don't know how our defense won't be improved.
BillsVet Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 A fine secondary with little to no pass rush is of little benefit when defending the pass. This is especially true when run defense is your greater problem, and there's no certainty that has been improved despite switching from T2 4-3 to a 3-4. Haven't we been over this in the past few years?
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 A fine secondary with little to no pass rush is of little benefit when defending the pass. This is especially true when run defense is your greater problem, and there's no certainty that has been improved despite switching from T2 4-3 to a 3-4. Haven't we been over this in the past few years? But even you can't argue that at least they are adding size to stop the run. Additionally, Edwards and Davis are starters from top 10 defenses and have 3-4 experience. At the very least, I think they have a plan in place. In 2 years, I think this could be a top 10 defense.
lets_go_bills Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 I'm not even remotely convinced that this team can generate a pass rush. I'm legitimately concerned.
Buffalonian-at-Heart Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 I've said this all of season. The offense is going to struggle but the defense is going to be much improved. We all know we are going to struggle to rush the passer, so we can only hope our secondary can repeat their performance from last year even though it's much more of a man to man scheme. But I believe the days of pushing Buffalo around in the run game are over.
Iceman Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 Yes, I know, they're only playing against our anemic offense right now, but even the most pessimistic fan has to be pleasantly surprised by reports of how this D is coming together this early in camp. Could it be that we really DO have the players and talent for the front seven in the 3-4, and one of the best secondaries in football? Nasty defense, strong running game...these sound like the ingredients for a successful team in WNY. I see the run D improving significantly. A big concern of mine is without Schobel who is going to get after the QB?
Fingon Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 Troup and Williams are impressing everyone, so... yes
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 I see the run D improving significantly. A big concern of mine is without Schobel who is going to get after the QB? The 3-4 works on confusion. It is much easier to get to the QB in a 3-4 than a 4-3 because blitzers come from many different angles. The main reason Pittsburgh is so good is LeBeau and the 3-4. That's why they let FAs walk all the time and just plug in guys (like James Harrison, an UDFA). The players have talent for sure but the system is great. I won't be surprised if we have more sacks than last year but with them spread out throughout the defense.
GR8PRKN Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 I'm not even remotely convinced that this team can generate a pass rush. I'm legitimately concerned. Agreed but at least we have a great secondary as appossed to no pass rush and no coverage
Gabe Northern Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 Yes, I know, they're only playing against our anemic offense right now, but even the most pessimistic fan has to be pleasantly surprised by reports of how this D is coming together this early in camp. I agree that the most pessimistic fan has to be pleasantly surprised, as I consider myself among the most pessimistic fans when it comes to our defense. however, as we know, dominating our offense in Pittsford does not translate to success. My concerns were (1) NT and (2) no OLB on the roster. Troup looks good now, but can he hold up? What about Williams ability to take on C and a G? At OLB, Torbor/Maybin needs to be a solid platoon, but the real story may be Chris Ellis. I thought he was a definite cut. If he actually starts and plays well there, that changes quite a bit. We'll see about Kelsay when he gets some reps.
CardinalScotts Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 I'm not even remotely convinced that this team can generate a pass rush. I'm legitimately concerned. I agree guys switching positions and we hoping the Maybins or the Moats of the world can get something done. I do think this benefits the run defense greatly though. The only advantage we have is our secondary is probably deeper than anyone with some real ball hawks
Billshank Redemption Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 I wish I could say that are D would be "Nasty" but that is just untrue. Putting a 3-4 in usually takes atleast a year to set in, and then another year to fully come out on its own. See 2008 Green Bay packers. Fortunately we do have some of the pieces in place to start to have a good defence as troupe has looked great in camp. I unfortunately think the weakness lies with our L.Bs who we seemed to do nothing to address during the offseason. Either way we still need an O-Line, another wideout if johnson doesnt step up, and a Q.B so were still a little ways off, but I trust Chan and I think he'll get us there
Spiderweb Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 I agree that the most pessimistic fan has to be pleasantly surprised, as I consider myself among the most pessimistic fans when it comes to our defense. however, as we know, dominating our offense in Pittsford does not translate to success. My concerns were (1) NT and (2) no OLB on the roster. Troup looks good now, but can he hold up? What about Williams ability to take on C and a G? At OLB, Torbor/Maybin needs to be a solid platoon, but the real story may be Chris Ellis. I thought he was a definite cut. If he actually starts and plays well there, that changes quite a bit. We'll see about Kelsay when he gets some reps. Where I seem to be most concerned is with the LB's. It seems we have a group of somewhat fragile guys of late. Poz, Mitchell, Ellison, etc. I cringe at a repeat of last year when Scott had to come down and play LB.......
BillsVet Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 But even you can't argue that at least they are adding size to stop the run. Additionally, Edwards and Davis are starters from top 10 defenses and have 3-4 experience. At the very least, I think they have a plan in place. In 2 years, I think this could be a top 10 defense. Size alone isn't the only requirement. Heck, they can find 3 Lonnie Harvey's and stick them on the front line. Edwards isn't a pass rushing threat, and A. Davis is a 2 down run defender who suffers in pass defense. Where does the pass rush come from? Buffalo has a plan, but whether or not it's correct is another matter yet to be determined. Either way, not having a pass rush will hurt them significantly. Also think you'd have a tough time selling the team with all the, "in 2 years they could be..." messages.
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 I wish I could say that are D would be "Nasty" but that is just untrue. Putting a 3-4 in usually takes atleast a year to set in, and then another year to fully come out on its own. See 2008 Green Bay packers. Fortunately we do have some of the pieces in place to start to have a good defence as troupe has looked great in camp. I unfortunately think the weakness lies with our L.Bs who we seemed to do nothing to address during the offseason. Either way we still need an O-Line, another wideout if johnson doesnt step up, and a Q.B so were still a little ways off, but I trust Chan and I think he'll get us there Last year was the Packers first year in a 3-4 and they upgraded from 20th to 2 in total yards given up. In fact, it is a very similar situation to ours. They have a very good secondary and had to changed soem pieces. Their best pass rusher struggled as a 3-4 OLB and eventually got hurt early in the season. So, it really isn't out of the question to see a big improvement in hte first year of a 3-4. Especially plugging in a 1st round corner (McKelvin) and the many draftees from this year.
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 Size alone isn't the only requirement. Heck, they can find 3 Lonnie Harvey's and stick them on the front line. Edwards isn't a pass rushing threat, and A. Davis is a 2 down run defender who suffers in pass defense. Where does the pass rush come from? Buffalo has a plan, but whether or not it's correct is another matter yet to be determined. Either way, not having a pass rush will hurt them significantly. Also think you'd have a tough time selling the team with all the, "in 2 years they could be..." messages. 3-4 DEs aren't supposed to be pass rushers. the majority of the pass rush comes from the LBs. Mitchell is a very good blitzer. And again, the 3-4 gets you sacks sometimes on jsut flat out confusion rather than overall skill. James Harrison couldn't even get drafted or make a roster early in his career. He is a talented player but Pittsburgh makes him a much better one. I also won't be surprised if Whitner has 4+ sacks. They have been blitzing him quite a bit in camp.
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