Go To Camp and see for Yourself,Edwards is WAY BETTER!

[Red]

Amen on the fitz part.

 

I'm with you on this, too.

 

Fitz is just does not have what it takes.

 

I think now with all of the money left on the table from Schobel, the Bills should get Jeff Garcia as insurance and make a trade for a big time LT.

 

IMO, this would shore up the roster.

[Alphadawg7]

2) Think back to the 2008 seasons first 6 games. Everyone thought we had finally found our own Tom Brady in Edwards. He won five of six games to start the season, including great comeback wins against Oakland and ST Louis. The Arizona game was a debacle, but they came back and beat a good San Diego team right afterwards. Things went to hell after the Cleveland game...But dont forget the way Edwards hustled and beat up on Kansas City and most importnatly the HUGE comeback win vs Denver up in Colorado.

 

I am all for him getting his fair shot under the new regime, but you have to be more realistic about that start in 2008. He wasnt very good against Oak, Jax, or the Rams and they were amongst the worst teams in the league that year with awful defenses. More importantly, our D, Mitchell, ST, and Lynch saved some of those so called comeback wins by Trent. Truth is, Trent struggled to move the ball in all 3 of those games and was very bad in the first half of all 3 games.

 

Yes we got the wins against those bad teams, but Trent is given way too much credit for them. I even said during the 4-0 start that if he doesnt start playing better we would miss the playoffs...his play continued to be inconsistent and terrible in most of the remaining games and we indeed missed the playoffs.

 

Again, I hope he can find some success under Chan as our team needs a QB, but the truth about Trent is that he has never had a good string of games and rarely really had command of the field out there. My biggest concern is the way he seems to mentally fall apart when struggles early in games (which he frequently does). So not only is his physical toughness a major question mark, but his mental toughness is suspect. Two areas that are tough to change...

[mpl6876]

I am all for him getting his fair shot under the new regime, but you have to be more realistic about that start in 2008. He wasnt very good against Oak, Jax, or the Rams and they were amongst the worst teams in the league that year with awful defenses. More importantly, our D, Mitchell, ST, and Lynch saved some of those so called comeback wins by Trent. Truth is, Trent struggled to move the ball in all 3 of those games and was very bad in the first half of all 3 games.

 

Yes we got the wins against those bad teams, but Trent is given way too much credit for them. I even said during the 4-0 start that if he doesnt start playing better we would miss the playoffs...his play continued to be inconsistent and terrible in most of the remaining games and we indeed missed the playoffs.

 

Again, I hope he can find some success under Chan as our team needs a QB, but the truth about Trent is that he has never had a good string of games and rarely really had command of the field out there. My biggest concern is the way he seems to mentally fall apart when struggles early in games (which he frequently does). So not only is his physical toughness a major question mark, but his mental toughness is suspect. Two areas that are tough to change...

 

Excellent insight. I am hoping TE can turn it around and be a legitimate productive starter. The concerns you mentioned are legit and valid. I concur and that's why I have my doubts. Let's hope he can change things around with the new regime...

[reddogblitz]

How they won 6 games is a mystery

It's no mystery. We won because we finally had a QB who is a LEADER and with his gutsy take charge play raised the level of play of the other players around him. Fitz was the leading passer for the Bills in 9 games last year. In those we were 5-4. We won 2 division games. If the coaching and line play etc. was so bad, how come Fitz succeeded and Trent did not?

[Andre Speed]

The bottom line I get from all of the camp reports is:

1. Pass defense looks great- QBs still suck??

2. Pass rush impressive- O-Line still horrible??

3. Running game looking good- Run defense still poor?? AWESOME !

[corrected]

 

all reports say that Dwan , Stroud, Troup and Davis have been beasts, and Kyle and Poz are holding their own. looks like the new D might finally have the brawn to hold up. it's about time!

 

~AS

[FreakPop]

It's no mystery. We won because we finally had a QB who is a LEADER and with his gutsy take charge play raised the level of play of the other players around him. Fitz was the leading passer for the Bills in 9 games last year. In those we were 5-4. We won 2 division games. If the coaching and line play etc. was so bad, how come Fitz succeeded and Trent did not?

 

 

Couldn't agree more. Why people still lobby for Trent is beyond me. He has NEVER shown anything (I don't care what he did for 4 games against weak opponents once), the guy is not a good NFL QB. He is fragile, he does not have it mentally, he has horrible throwing mechanics, he is not a leader of any kind, he was benched by 2 coaches last year and was outperformed by a journeyman QB from Harvard. Why again do some think he will be a serviceable QB. I just don't understand the thinking. Trent has proven he is not capable of leading a team.

[Hplarrm]

I am all for him getting his fair shot under the new regime, but you have to be more realistic about that start in 2008. He wasnt very good against Oak, Jax, or the Rams and they were amongst the worst teams in the league that year with awful defenses. More importantly, our D, Mitchell, ST, and Lynch saved some of those so called comeback wins by Trent. Truth is, Trent struggled to move the ball in all 3 of those games and was very bad in the first half of all 3 games.

 

Yes we got the wins against those bad teams, but Trent is given way too much credit for them. I even said during the 4-0 start that if he doesnt start playing better we would miss the playoffs...his play continued to be inconsistent and terrible in most of the remaining games and we indeed missed the playoffs.

 

Again, I hope he can find some success under Chan as our team needs a QB, but the truth about Trent is that he has never had a good string of games and rarely really had command of the field out there. My biggest concern is the way he seems to mentally fall apart when struggles early in games (which he frequently does). So not only is his physical toughness a major question mark, but his mental toughness is suspect. Two areas that are tough to change...

Like HCs, I think QBs get too much credit for wins and too much blame for losses.

 

Its actually a little more reasonable for QBs since they do handle the ball on virtually all offensive plays, but they simply can be very important but rarely are all important to a games outcome.

 

This being said, I can see why a real watcher with some knowledge saw something special in TEs play such that he publicly and personally put his rep on the line talking TE up. Yes the early part of the 2008 season were among the worst in the league, but having seen the worst in the league beat the best in the league every pro game is a pro game and every win is a win.

 

With the team on a roll and actually the weak competition covering up the poor offensive scheming which has always been part of the Jauron MO, my subjective view of the young Edward was that he was a very good athlete, with a good head on his shoulders who showed an understanding of the game in terms of throwing tight passes and making good quick decisions. Even better, Edwards showed more mobility and running ability than I was led to believe in his early write-ups.

 

However, before we get too creamy about this, I do not think that Edwards is the franchise QB the Bills want to and will hitch their wagon to.

 

This is not because I think Edwards is a bad player (I think he is good and still young). The problem is that in his fairly brief time he meets my objective criteria for being labeled injury prone.

 

I lay this label on a player who misses PT three separate times in 2 seasons of play for three different injuries (An injury prone player to me is not a player with a recurring nagging injury such as Jimbo who always had bursa sac issues with this recurring injury. Rob Johnson was the classic injury prone player who every time he got his something else would get strained or fractured.

 

In his first two seasons TE missed significant PT with:

 

1. Out during his first season with a wrist injury

2. Missed significant practice time which was a critical need of his with an unspecified injury (which Jauron pointedly said was not his wrist) in his second season/

3. Got literally knocked out with a serious concussion

 

I like Edwards skills when he plays. I think many on this board were too harsh on him for the most part due to fans and the local media feeding the whiny voices among fans demanding that their QB replicate their memory of the achievements of HOF Jim Kelly. This fantasy memory is further stoked by 10 years without a playoff. Ironically, Edwards himself also stoked this expectation by playing so well upon his emergence into the NFL.

 

If Edwards had started more slowly (like being on the PS his first year, been the disaster QB his second year, and then earned the back-up role his third year to finally win the starter slot he now occupies folks might have reasonably wanted it to be quicker but would argue it was fine. Instead, when it turned out to be the case that in his second season he needed some work to become a more complete player (well duh).

 

I think after 3 seasons the conventional wisdom actually can kick in now and folks might only now reasonably conclude whether he is a bust, franchise, or a work in progress.

 

In terms of quality of work I think it is clear he is a work in progress. I am happy to skip him to go with a better candidate. However, neither Fitzy or Brohm has shown anything in real games that demands that they play and in the absence of clear alternative Edwards is correctly the man (for now).

 

The nice thing about this is that it seems to be a good way to go about developing the initially highly touted Brohm who got passed over big time in GB.

 

A lack of confidence seems to be a central issue for him, and the good news is that Gailey is not going to let the team (driven by Ralph who started the stupid QN judgment when he blew an assessment of how much Jimbo had left to the extent he made a handshake deal with Kelly to reward him in his next contract (I have always wondered whether part of the outrageous delay in putting Mr. Ralph in the HOF was because he publicly cheated his team owner partners by flagrantly ignoring the salary cap with the handshake agreement- At any rate Gailey is breaking the Mr. Ralph led habit of simply giving the QB job to a player who has not earned in on the field).

 

If Brohm is actually going to be a franchise QB he will take the job from Edwards in this fair competition. If he does not take it with his performance he does not deserve it anyway.

 

The final irony in this for me is that though I like his play I doubt that Edwards will get or deserves the starter job because he is injury prone. Yet, he is a youngster and the proof will be in the reality of whether he is actually injury prone or not.

[reddogblitz]

However, neither Fitzy or Brohm has shown anything in real games that demands that they play and in the absence of clear alternative Edwards is correctly the man (for now).

Come on man, you're killin' me on this one. Fitz hasn't "shown anything in real games that demands that he play".

 

What did Fitz show us last year? On a team that went 1-6 in games he was not the leading passer, when he was leading passer the team went 5-4. 2-2 in the division. Projected over a 16 game season, that's 9-7. You know, the same record the Jets had last year.

 

He set 2 Buffalo Bills franchise records. Longest TD pass (98 yards) and longest run for a TD from scrimmage by a QB (31 yards). He played well in a blizzard. The guy didn't even look cold. I haven't seen that kind of production at QB at the Ralph in a blizzard since the Flutie vs. Bledsoe shootout in 2000 I'm thinking it was.

 

He beat the Fish at home with a monster 4th quarter crunch time performance including a perfectly thrown 51 yard TD pass to TO on an audible. We were losing going into the 4th quarter 14 - 7 and ended up winning 31-14. This was against the same team that trounced a Trent Edwards led Bills team 38 - 10.

 

What did Trent and Brohm do again to deserve the nod over Fitz?

 

Fitz is a leader and Trent and Brohm aren't. You can't coach that. Either you got it or you don't. HOF QB Roger Staubach says leadership is a QBs most important job. He knows a little about QBs and leadership!

 

Fitz may not be pretty and he does have accuracy issues. But really, he's the best we got. When he plays, we win more than we lose and to paraphrase HOF Vince Lombardi, winning isn't the most important thing, it's the only thing.

 

Why can't we just play the guy that gives us the best chance to win right now and worry about the future next year? We got to turn this thing around. This is our 6th year of "rebuilding". I can't believe so many of you are content with this and want to "rebuild" for another 3 years before we start winning.

[mpl6876]

Come on man, you're killin' me on this one. Fitz hasn't "shown anything in real games that demands that he play".

 

What did Fitz show us last year? On a team that went 1-6 in games he was not the leading passer, when he was leading passer the team went 5-4. 2-2 in the division. Projected over a 16 game season, that's 9-7. You know, the same record the Jets had last year.

 

He set 2 Buffalo Bills franchise records. Longest TD pass (98 yards) and longest run for a TD from scrimmage by a QB (31 yards). He played well in a blizzard. The guy didn't even look cold. I haven't seen that kind of production at QB at the Ralph in a blizzard since the Flutie vs. Bledsoe shootout in 2000 I'm thinking it was.

 

He beat the Fish at home with a monster 4th quarter crunch time performance including a perfectly thrown 51 yard TD pass to TO on an audible. We were losing going into the 4th quarter 14 - 7 and ended up winning 31-14. This was against the same team that trounced a Trent Edwards led Bills team 38 - 10.

 

What did Trent and Brohm do again to deserve the nod over Fitz?

 

Fitz is a leader and Trent and Brohm aren't. You can't coach that. Either you got it or you don't. HOF QB Roger Staubach says leadership is a QBs most important job. He knows a little about QBs and leadership!

 

Fitz may not be pretty and he does have accuracy issues. But really, he's the best we got. When he plays, we win more than we lose and to paraphrase HOF Vince Lombardi, winning isn't the most important thing, it's the only thing.

 

Why can't we just play the guy that gives us the best chance to win right now and worry about the future next year? We got to turn this thing around. This is our 6th year of "rebuilding". I can't believe so many of you are content with this and want to "rebuild" for another 3 years before we start winning.

 

Very very interesting statements. I too want to win now and I am sick and tired of "rebuilding. That is why I wanted the Bills to make some moves at the QB position and LT position via free agency." Also, I have questioned only others on whey they don't hold the FO accountable. So, I hear what your saying.

 

IMO, we have so many holes that a "win right now philosophy cannot be achieved." As difficult as it may be, I am hoping that Nix/Gailey have a plan and execute it within a couple of years. By year 3, I am hoping they have most of the pieces in place to make a serious run for the Lombardi Trophy. Because of past optimism and the scares I bear, I have my serious doubts. We will all have to wait and see.

[Risin]

This is Trent's year, we HAVE to see what he has, with a competent coach. One thing we all should agree on is that Chan can make chicken salad out of chicken BLEEP, when it comes to the QB position. (Jay Fiedler, Kordell Stewart and Tyler Thigpen off the top of my head)

 

Where them 3 differ from Trent, is that they're not made out of china. Worst case scenario for Bills fans, Trent looks solid, but misses 4+ games to injury. At what point do we agree, but more importantly the coaches/front office agree, that this guy can't be a starter because he can't stay healthy? He has been injured almost every season (even in high school) and you can cry all you want about Stanford's O-line, but his backups never had a problem staying healthy while Trent was nursing an injury.

 

In my opinion, the QB to lead us to the playoffs is still in college or on another NFL roster, at the moment. I think Trent is a good backup, but below average starter in this league. He is the best we have by a mile, excluding Levi Brown's potential, because he is an unknown. ( altho history says most 7th rounders won't be elite QB's ) I'm no scout/coach/GM, and there has to be a reason we didn't try and upgrade at QB this season. That tells me that they think Trent can be a solid starter in this league, and they are going to give him every chance. The key to Trent's success is staying healthy, and playing the position at a relatively high level. We've seen him do it, but the key to being a good NFL QB is doing it consistently, and that we haven't seen from him.

 

For now we can blame the dysfunction of the past regime, but Trent really needs to pickup his level of play this season.

[FreakPop]

This is Trent's year, we HAVE to see what he has, with a competent coach. One thing we all should agree on is that Chan can make chicken salad out of chicken BLEEP, when it comes to the QB position. (Jay Fiedler, Kordell Stewart and Tyler Thigpen off the top of my head)

 

 

For now we can blame the dysfunction of the past regime, but Trent really needs to pickup his level of play this season.

 

 

Even though the past coaching staff was horrid, there still should have been glimpses of Trent being functional. Save for a 4 game stretch against weak teams he has not been able to show that. Could the same not be said for JP and the coaches he had? It could be, but most everyone was in agreement that JP was still going to be bad regardless of the coaches he had. Trent is following the same path.

 

I said it more than once, Trents throwing mechanics will NOT allow him to be a good QB at the NFL level, serviceable, maybe, but to excel and be good no way. Then you throw in his other deficiencies like, mentality, fragile, non leader, benched by 2 other coaches and he should not even be considered as starting material.

 

With Chan and his clan seeming to be giving Trent the nod so far, I have to wonder about their competence level. If Trent were to be the starter, IMO he would be replaced before the midpoint of the season and then we all get to play the musical QB game again and the what if game again, especially if Fitz(Brohm, Levi) were able to come in and be 5-4 again like last year. I'm sick of the piss poor decision making going on at 1 Bills Dr.

[show_me_the_baby]

The bottom line I get from all of the camp reports is:

 

1. Pass defense looks great- QBs still suck??

2. Pass rush impressive- O-Line still horrible??

3. Running game looking good- Run defense still poor??

 

+1

 

thats why Im interested in seeing this preseason game. Contrary to what some think, preseason games are very important due to the fact that you are trying to evaluate talent. In our case, we can all evaluate the team and Nix/Gailey by closely watching the preseason games, individual performances and matchups etc.

[thewildrabbit]

Why do the QB's in camp wear red jersey's... they basically play "touch football" because the team doesn't want their own players whacking them and getting injured.

 

So far Edwards or any Bills QB is going to look good in camp because he/ they are only getting touched...and not hit, hammered, pounded on or concussed.

 

 

 

So in reality we will need to see how the QB's will perform in those pre season games, and also see how that O line performs before we can make a fair assessment of how the offense will do this season.

 

Will the protections be good... will the rookie RB learn all his blocking assignments?

 

Will the QB have time to throw... will the receivers get open, and will the QB be able to find them?

 

Will the new scheme allow the team to run and pass the ball more effectively and score?

 

 

Friday the 13th, 7:30 PM at Washington

[LGB]

Why do the QB's in camp wear red jersey's... they basically play "touch football" because the team doesn't want their own players whacking them and getting injured.

 

So far Edwards or any Bills QB is going to look good in camp because he/ they are only getting touched...and not hit, hammered, pounded on or concussed.

 

 

 

So in reality we will need to see how the QB's will perform in those pre season games, and also see how that O line performs before we can make a fair assessment of how the offense will do this season.

 

Will the protections be good... will the rookie RB learn all his blocking assignments?

 

Will the QB have time to throw... will the receivers get open, and will the QB be able to find them?

 

Will the new scheme allow the team to run and pass the ball more effectively and score?

 

 

Friday the 13th, 7:30 PM at Washington

Even more noticeable in camp has been the no-nonsense attitude and sense of grit/hard work that the new staff has been working to install.

 

I agree completely about how TE might look good - without the worry of getting another concussion in training camp and that the big question will be protection...but it is hard to billieve that this will be a one year fix of all the aliments that this team has suffered under DJ.

[jethro_tull]

The Roch. D & C correspondent embedded at SJF has repeatedly mentioned how non-existent the passing game is. His take is that all three top Bills QBs are equal. The observation is that the passing game (long and short) is anemic from equal measures of passer inaccuracy, defensive pressure and receivers that are not capable of getting open.

[Rockinon]

I'm curious: Can somebody tell me why this year's camp is different from Jauron's? Specifics please (besides they're wearing pads). thanks

TE is actually throwing down field and connecting. Roscoe Parish is actually catching balls in the middle of the field. The Offensive line is blocking well for our RBs. The team is spending a lot of time in redzone work. The overall camp workouts are more aggressive.

[Rockinon]

The bottom line I get from all of the camp reports is:

 

1. Pass defense looks great- QBs still suck??

2. Pass rush impressive- O-Line still horrible??

3. Running game looking good- Run defense still poor??

Guess your going to have to wait and see. Isn't this fun?

[Rockinon]

Guys and gals, any assessment of Edwards over his first three seasons must also include acceptance of the fact he received pathetic coaching. I share frustrations expressed over "Trentative" but also firmly believe he deserves this chance under a coaching staff that actually understands how to coach offensive football.

 

I will reserve final judgment of Edwards until the bullets are flying for real this season.

Well put, and I agree.

[Rockinon]

Typical pessimist yes,

 

I suppose Troll is in the eye of the beholder, myself personally, I don't see it.

Also a good post. Both sides of the coin have different opinions. Both sides could stand to learn a little tolerance. And the fun continues.

[Rockinon]

Some of the things that could be done is to commit to the run, stop the run and actually run the ball. As like anything, passing offenses take time to develop..You keep the confidence of the team up by running the ball. Look at what they did with Sanchez last year....They ran the ball and stopped the run....By end of the season, Sanchez had figured out how to play the smart game.

Not a bad analogy, but I would never use the Jets as a positive example in any way shape or form.