John Cocktosten Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 The first BIG MISTAKE was assuming that Schobel was coming back. Buddy expected to get one more productive year out of Schobel as the teams primary pass rusher. Well that's not going to happen. The second BIG MISTAKE was not having a backup plan and drafting a legit pass rusher. In the 1st round he passed on legit pass rushers like Morgan, Graham, Pierre Paul. In the 2nd round he passed on Kindle. In the later rounds, he passed on Griffen, Norwood and Sapp. Am I saying that all of them will be All Pros, NO! But they would've all contributed this year and the majority of them are better than anyone the Bills have at OLB. When you look at the great 3-4's, it's all about the NT and the OLB's. Over the years, tandems like Woodley and Harrison and Timmons (Dominated the Cards Oline in the SB), Phillips and Merriman , Ware and Spencer, Porter and Taylor, Vrable and McGinest dominated opposing offensive lines and disrupted passing games. Even teams who run a 4-3 understand that the NFL is a passing league and you need great pass rushers to get anywhere. The last 3 Super Bowls were played by teams who have Freeney/Mathis, Will Smith, Harrison/Wodley, Tuck/Mathias K/Osi/Strahan (And they just drafted Pierre Paul). Look at what Allen and Edwards do in Minny!!!!! Or the difference guys like Mathews and Dumerville make on their teams. So what did Buddy do to improve what I think is the 2nd most important position (pass rusher wherever it comes from) in the NFL today? NOTHING! And now the Bills best pass rusher over the last decade is sick of the ineptitude that the Bills show year after year and says "no thanks" to 6 mill. Good job Buddy! The Bills may not have anyone to rush the QB but they do have 3 solid RB's!! (And a terrible O-line to boot!) Isn't the NFL a passing league!?!?! Wouldn't it make sense to load up on pass rushers the way the Steelers do every year? Way to count on the dynamic duo of Maybin and Kelsay. Brady, Henne and Sanchez thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kota Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 How much coffee have you had today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Wouldn't have picked any of those 1st round guys in the 9 slot. And don't even mention trade down because a team can't just magically do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 What? How do you figure Nix expected Schobel to return? He expected him to STAY retired, and then Schobel changed his mind. As for drafting a pass rusher, the Bills did that...last year. Next! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Buddy expected to get one more productive year out of Schobel as the teams primary pass rusher. You have nothing but the little men talking inside your head to base that on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kota Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 YOu really need to step back to reality. You are upset because Spiller isn't signed so you feel he was a waste of a draft pick. The bills did consider Schobel not coming back by bringing in Torbor and drafting Batten. They are both OLB. No matter what you feel about Maybin he was a 1st round pick last year and needs to be given a opportunity to prove if he is a bust or not. I don't understand why everyone is upset about Schobel not coming back. There is a decent amount of talent at the OLB position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 #1- i don't think that Nix expected Schoebel back at all. sure they played the dance. but, everyone knows that schoebel wants to play in texas near his home. he either was going to get released by buffalo or retire. schoebel held the cards. #2- the bills literally have needs at every single position......they must draft best available...period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cocktosten Posted August 4, 2010 Author Share Posted August 4, 2010 What? How do you figure Nix expected Schobel to return? He expected him to STAY retired, and then Schobel changed his mind. As for drafting a pass rusher, the Bills did that...last year. Next! All you're doing is proving my point Doc. If he expected Schobel to retire, why didn't he replace him with anyone who can provide pass rush! Drafting Maybin did nothing to improve the pass rush. Even if he plays well this year, how well will he play? So you're fine with Kelsay and Mitchell at the other spot? The Colts drafted Jerry Hughes in the 1st round when they have Freeney/Mathis. The Steelers drafted Wordlis in the 2nd and Gibson in the 4th when they have Harrison/Woodley/Timmons. The Giants drafted Paul in the 1st when they have Osi/Kiwanuka/Tucker. Get it now? Next! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkAF43 Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 All you're doing is proving my point Doc. If he expected Schobel to retire, why didn't he replace him with anyone who can provide pass rush! Drafting Maybin did nothing to improve the pass rush. Even if he plays well this year, how well will he play? So you're fine with Kelsay and Mitchell at the other spot? The Colts drafted Jerry Hughes in the 1st round when they have Freeney/Mathis. The Steelers drafted Wordlis in the 2nd and Gibson in the 4th when they have Harrison/Woodley/Timmons. The Giants drafted Paul in the 1st when they have Osi/Kiwanuka/Tucker. Get it now? Next! We had other needs at the time, it wasn't a priority to get a pass rusher.. The examples you have are of good teams, who weren't trying or needing to fill multiple holes. It is totally different drafting from a position of luxury, instead of need Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills in va Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 What? How do you figure Nix expected Schobel to return? He expected him to STAY retired, and then Schobel changed his mind. As for drafting a pass rusher, the Bills did that...last year. Next! Yeah unfortunately they picked the WRONG one! Next Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabe Northern Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 The first BIG MISTAKE was assuming that Schobel was coming back. Buddy expected to get one more productive year out of Schobel as the teams primary pass rusher. Well that's not going to happen. If this were true, the Bills would have been relived to hear he was looking for housing in WNY and likely to come back. Instead, they reacted to the news by informing him that he was no longer in their plans. This is the issue people need to come to terms with. When it seemed like he was going to retire, the word out of OBD was "take as much time as you need. We'd love to have you." As soon as it seemed like he was coming back, it was Nix on the phone telling him to stay the hell away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Man Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 The first BIG MISTAKE was assuming that Schobel was coming back. Buddy expected to get one more productive year out of Schobel as the teams primary pass rusher. Well that's not going to happen. The second BIG MISTAKE was not having a backup plan and drafting a legit pass rusher. In the 1st round he passed on legit pass rushers like Morgan, Graham, Pierre Paul. In the 2nd round he passed on Kindle. In the later rounds, he passed on Griffen, Norwood and Sapp. Am I saying that all of them will be All Pros, NO! But they would've all contributed this year and the majority of them are better than anyone the Bills have at OLB. When you look at the great 3-4's, it's all about the NT and the OLB's. Over the years, tandems like Woodley and Harrison and Timmons (Dominated the Cards Oline in the SB), Phillips and Merriman , Ware and Spencer, Porter and Taylor, Vrable and McGinest dominated opposing offensive lines and disrupted passing games. Even teams who run a 4-3 understand that the NFL is a passing league and you need great pass rushers to get anywhere. The last 3 Super Bowls were played by teams who have Freeney/Mathis, Will Smith, Harrison/Wodley, Tuck/Mathias K/Osi/Strahan (And they just drafted Pierre Paul). Look at what Allen and Edwards do in Minny!!!!! Or the difference guys like Mathews and Dumerville make on their teams. So what did Buddy do to improve what I think is the 2nd most important position (pass rusher wherever it comes from) in the NFL today? NOTHING! And now the Bills best pass rusher over the last decade is sick of the ineptitude that the Bills show year after year and says "no thanks" to 6 mill. Good job Buddy! The Bills may not have anyone to rush the QB but they do have 3 solid RB's!! (And a terrible O-line to boot!) Isn't the NFL a passing league!?!?! Wouldn't it make sense to load up on pass rushers the way the Steelers do every year? Way to count on the dynamic duo of Maybin and Kelsay. Brady, Henne and Sanchez thank you! Your mistake is assuming that Nix was thinking he could fix the Bills in one off-season. It is going to take more than one draft to clean up the previous regime's mess and get a winner assembled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 All you're doing is proving my point Doc. If he expected Schobel to retire, why didn't he replace him with anyone who can provide pass rush! Drafting Maybin did nothing to improve the pass rush. Even if he plays well this year, how well will he play? So you're fine with Kelsay and Mitchell at the other spot? The Colts drafted Jerry Hughes in the 1st round when they have Freeney/Mathis. The Steelers drafted Wordlis in the 2nd and Gibson in the 4th when they have Harrison/Woodley/Timmons. The Giants drafted Paul in the 1st when they have Osi/Kiwanuka/Tucker. Get it now? Next! Schobel wasn't going to play 3-4 DE. If he played, it would have been at 3-4 OLB. That's where the Bills moved Maybin (and all the other 4-3 DE's they had) after his rookie season at 4-3 DE didn't workout so well. Morgan isn't a 3-4 DE. Get it now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cocktosten Posted August 4, 2010 Author Share Posted August 4, 2010 You have nothing but the little men talking inside your head to base that on... Before we start an insult-fest, let's look at the facts. The Bills never said that they expected Schobel to retire. Not around the draft and not after. Even now, no one in the FO said that they thought he would retire up until a couple of days ago. There were many on this board that felt he was coming back as well for whatever that's worth. So it looks like hindsight is 20/20 for you guys, but the Bills look like they were caught with their pant down now that he's a gone. Finally, to say thet addressed the pass rush in the draft last year is ludicrous. Maybin may not be a bust YET(I think he will), but who else is there? Danny Batten!?!? Torbor!?!? You're joking right?!?! I'm hardly upset witht the Spiller pick. I watched him throughout college a million times and I think he is a GREAT talent. I'm not sure he'll be able to stay healthy on a consistant basis. But there WERE guys there who could've helped this team especially since they have two very good RB's already. They also passed on any legit OLB's until the 5th round when they drafted Batten...another small school project. Who leads the team in sacks and how many do you expect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cocktosten Posted August 4, 2010 Author Share Posted August 4, 2010 We had other needs at the time, it wasn't a priority to get a pass rusher.. The examples you have are of good teams, who weren't trying or needing to fill multiple holes. It is totally different drafting from a position of luxury, instead of need Or those succesful teams know that having pass rushers is the most important thing after having a solid QB. And by your logic, isn't Spiller a luxury? I mean, FJ and Marshawn are good RB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cage Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 YOu really need to step back to reality. You are upset because Spiller isn't signed so you feel he was a waste of a draft pick. The bills did consider Schobel not coming back by bringing in Torbor and drafting Batten. They are both OLB. No matter what you feel about Maybin he was a 1st round pick last year and needs to be given a opportunity to prove if he is a bust or not. I don't understand why everyone is upset about Schobel not coming back. There is a decent amount of talent at the OLB position. Agree completely,... Maybin can't just be dismissed based on last year. We have to see what he has... The other thing about Schobel is that I've had doubts about his ability to transition to OLB in the first place. Why would it have made sense to switch him to an un-natural position, for one year. I think we would have been screaming about what boneheaded move that was by week 4. Also, like it or not, we're on a 2-3 year plan, Schobel shouldn't have been retained for the exact same reason that TO wasn't. We need to see what the young guys who have a shot at being the core of this team for the next 4-6 year have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 The first BIG MISTAKE was assuming that Schobel was coming back. Buddy expected to get one more productive year out of Schobel as the teams primary pass rusher. Well that's not going to happen. The second BIG MISTAKE was not having a backup plan and drafting a legit pass rusher. In the 1st round he passed on legit pass rushers like Morgan, Graham, Pierre Paul. In the 2nd round he passed on Kindle. In the later rounds, he passed on Griffen, Norwood and Sapp. Am I saying that all of them will be All Pros, NO! But they would've all contributed this year and the majority of them are better than anyone the Bills have at OLB. When you look at the great 3-4's, it's all about the NT and the OLB's. Over the years, tandems like Woodley and Harrison and Timmons (Dominated the Cards Oline in the SB), Phillips and Merriman , Ware and Spencer, Porter and Taylor, Vrable and McGinest dominated opposing offensive lines and disrupted passing games. Even teams who run a 4-3 understand that the NFL is a passing league and you need great pass rushers to get anywhere. The last 3 Super Bowls were played by teams who have Freeney/Mathis, Will Smith, Harrison/Wodley, Tuck/Mathias K/Osi/Strahan (And they just drafted Pierre Paul). Look at what Allen and Edwards do in Minny!!!!! Or the difference guys like Mathews and Dumerville make on their teams. So what did Buddy do to improve what I think is the 2nd most important position (pass rusher wherever it comes from) in the NFL today? NOTHING! And now the Bills best pass rusher over the last decade is sick of the ineptitude that the Bills show year after year and says "no thanks" to 6 mill. Good job Buddy! The Bills may not have anyone to rush the QB but they do have 3 solid RB's!! (And a terrible O-line to boot!) Isn't the NFL a passing league!?!?! Wouldn't it make sense to load up on pass rushers the way the Steelers do every year? Way to count on the dynamic duo of Maybin and Kelsay. Brady, Henne and Sanchez thank you! Schobel screwed the Bills, not Buddy Nix. And we drafted the biggest play-maker on the board. The only thing I see in your post that I agree with is "Good job, Buddy!" I think he's doing just fine, myself. And if I had a Shobel jersey, I'd throw it away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Your mistake is assuming that Nix was thinking he could fix the Bills in one off-season. It is going to take more than one draft to clean up the previous regime's mess and get a winner assembled. What he said. I don't think Nix assumed Schobel was coming back, and there is only so much you can do with the draft picks you have, your team needs, and who is available when you pick. I think they needed to see what they have in Maybin this year before spending another high draft pick on his replacement. I think Nix is doing what he needs to do to rebuild the team, knowing that it won't all happen in one year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cocktosten Posted August 4, 2010 Author Share Posted August 4, 2010 Schobel wasn't going to play 3-4 DE. If he played, it would have been at 3-4 OLB. That's where the Bills moved Maybin (and all the other 4-3 DE's they had) after his rookie season at 4-3 DE didn't workout so well. Morgan isn't a 3-4 DE. Get it now? NO SH*T SHIRLOCK! Just like Jason Taylor, Calvin Pace, Elvis Dumerville, Willie McGinest, Terelle Suggs and Mike Vrable all played with their hands on the ground to start their careers in the NFL. Morgan would've played OLB on this team too! Try slowing down when you read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 - You expect players to honor their contracts - Nix babied Schrobel in a attempt to get him back by not fining him or badmouthing him in the media - We did in fact take a pretty good prospect in the 3rd round in Alex Carrington - Pass rush in a 3-4 defense comes from your linebackers....it is the job of the down linemen to hold up blockers - We went to a 3-4 and needed a legit NT......Troupe was the pick there and everyone says he is looking very good - CJ Spiller might have been the best playmaker in the draft and was worth the value at the 9th pick.....cant fault them there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts