Revis situation is ugly

[Green Lightning]

I have said this before and will always stand on it...there is not now nor will there ever be a CB worth that kind of money. NE proved just a few years ago fielding thier 4th - 7th string CB's that you can win without a 'shutdown corner'. I have always felt that is a pure bull **** term as well. You let a WR run for 4+ seconds and he is gonna get open somehow. Andre Reed schooled Deion when they met up. did he just try to race him down the field? No, he ran crisp routes on his ass and owned him.

 

Any team can take 4 average DB's and go to a superbowl and with with a great pass rush. There are 3 cornerstones to any great franchise, QB, LT and a pass rusher off the Right side. Screw these idiot DB's thinking they are worth 14 mill or so per year.

 

If I were the Jets I would be taking trade offers right now for the idiot.

 

 

Well, short of calling him an idiot....(afterall, if the team will give you stupid money take it) I would have to agree, for the most part, with your analysis here. On Defense, I happen to think stopping the run and a pass rush ourweigh's everything else. On offense, generally the QB rules. There have been teams who win it all without a great QB but rather a strong line and running game. Bottom line, as the Giants proved a few SB's ago, even great QB's look pretty ordinary when they are on their *ss.

[DDD]

My Grandpa used to say 'want in one hand and **** in the other....see which gets full the fastest'. That is what I would tell Revis and his agent as I send them his first fine for missing manditory training camp.

 

Was your grandpa named Mickey? See quote below.

[Skoobydum]

Was your grandpa named Mickey? See quote below.

 

I cried when Mickey died, he was a great Penguin.

[Thurman#1]

Holy sh*t how I hate that argument. Do you think Revis was locked in one on one man coverage every play vrs teh same guy? Thats moronic. I remember watching the playoff Bungals/Jets game, as the announcers where washing Revis's nuts for allowing 85 to catch 1 or 2 passes all game, yet AS THEY WERE TALKING, Revis had allowed 3 catches to Coles/others.

 

Worst. Evidence. Ever.

 

Revis thinks he is hot sh*t cause ESPN cannot get his dock out of their mouths. Id rather have Mcgee/Florence/Dbrickashaw Furgeson for that money. My team would be better too.

 

 

 

Better than no evidence. Like for example, this post.

[kota]

I hope the Jets are dumb enough to give him 14 million a year. It will hamper them from resigning their own players. Corners are a dime a dozen and not worth that kind of money. The only position worth that amount of money is a QB.

[Fan in Chicago]

Good for you Revis. Stick to your guns and show the Jets who "The Man" is.

 

I think you should holdout the entire season.

 

Well, I would agree with you. But so what if he shuts down Evans ? We have .... umm.... aahh...... Nevermind - I agree with you.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

He could have reported, got his $20 mil and still got a new contract. aybe it would have taken longer, but for the most part teams do reward players who show up to camp as opposed to the Jason Peters model.

 

One is not exclusive of the other!

 

The guaranteed money he's leaving on the table is chump change compared to what he's looking for. He wasn't more than the $14M/year Asomugha gets from Oakland. It would take a year and a half, not 2, to get back that $21M.

[BillsWearPajamas]

A weakened Jets team is a easier team for the Bills to beat, go Revis!!

 

The only way the Bills beat the Jets is if the Jets entire 53 man roster holds out.

 

Other than that, Revis not being in the starting lineup will do little to help the Bills.

[Dan]

However, my beef with Revis is that after he was drafted, the Jets wanted to sign him to the standard rookie contract of 5 years. Revis held out and demanded that a 6th year be added to his rookie contract. He eventually got what he wanted. The way the contract was structured, in his 4th season (this year), his base salary would only be $1M, but by reporting to camp every day in years 2, 3, and 4, he would trigger $20 million guaranteed over his final two seasons.

 

Therefore, by holding out, he's forfeiting $21 million in guaranteed money. Additionally, the Jets would likely be more open to an extension or a reworking of his contract if he only had one season remaining after 2010. But he held out as a rookie in order to obtain that 6th year. So from the Jets perspective, they gave him what he wanted, and he has three years remaining under contract with them. He just doesn't like the bed he made for himself.

 

Additionally, Revis was underwhelming as a rookie (as most rookie DB's are), and started to show promise in his 2nd season. But it was only in his 3rd season, with new coach Rex Ryan's defense, that he became the "Revis Island" shut down corner. The Jets could argue that his success is a product of the pressure the front 7 puts on the QB, while Revis could argue that his presence at CB allows them to run a blitz-happy defense. Both are likely correct.

Nice post. And therein lies the problem.... Revis held out as a rookie to get the contract he currently has and now wants to throw it out in favor a new contract - only because he thinks he's the best ever. What players like Revis (and Peters and Haynsworth and...) are doing is saying the contract is worthless. They play good, get praise; they expect new contracts.

 

I know the counter argument is that teams can cut a player if he underperforms. However, that still favors the player more often than not. How much money did the Raiders have to pay Russell? How much money did we pay to Dockery and Walker? How much money has San Fran given Clements? Yes, players lose some money when they suck it up; but they most always still get the guaranteed portion of the contract.

 

What we're seeing is a growing trend of players holding teams hostage when they over perform. Would Revis sign a new contract stating that he gives all the money back if he doesn't perform as the #1 corner in the league in '10 and '11? I highly doubt it.

 

Personally, and seriously, I'd make him ride the bench and show him just how easy it is to be replaced in the NFL (for all but maybe a small handful of QBs). $1mill in '10? A small price for the message it would send.

 

The new CBA must address this kind of mess.

[Webster Guy]

Generally true. Maybe a little oversimplified but if you follow the rule you should find success. There is only one argument I would make for maybe a handful of guys-

 

 

The one thing that revis does is actually shut down the 1. A lot of shut down corners ala clements just take the 2 and allow a double to neutralize the top guy. If you can take a #1 away with one man its like having an extra guy on the field. Suddenly you can blitz every play if you want with that "extra guy" giving you an alternative the dominating DE.

 

Not a recipe I want to bank on but in rare cases may work.

Except Clements isnt even a starter in SF and was always overrated. Bills had to let him go. The Jets need Revis badly. He's complete in all aspects of the game including intimidation. I'd take him over any DB including Polamalu or Reed in a second. I hope he holds out all year. I would if they offered me less money than they're paying Braylon.

[stuckincincy]

Better than no evidence. Like for example, this post.

 

The poster you reference need not respond to a snap of your fingers and spend time digging about...

 

Revis is a decent cb, but IMO was given a lot of latitude in the games I viewed.

 

The NFL has a pecuniary interest in promoting "stars."

 

 

I think he's being stupid, or easily led. There's already a lot of $ on his table, and NYJ will sweeten things. Given the uncertainty surrounding next season, he and his handlers want to toss the dice and go for the throat. Sounds like all-or-nothing.

[Orton's Arm]

I have said this before and will always stand on it...there is not now nor will there ever be a CB worth that kind of money. NE proved just a few years ago fielding thier 4th - 7th string CB's that you can win without a 'shutdown corner'. I have always felt that is a pure bull **** term as well. You let a WR run for 4+ seconds and he is gonna get open somehow. Andre Reed schooled Deion when they met up. did he just try to race him down the field? No, he ran crisp routes on his ass and owned him.

 

Any team can take 4 average DB's and go to a superbowl and with with a great pass rush. There are 3 cornerstones to any great franchise, QB, LT and a pass rusher off the Right side. Screw these idiot DB's thinking they are worth 14 mill or so per year.

 

If I were the Jets I would be taking trade offers right now for the idiot.

I largely agree with this post. But there are a few nuances I see differently.

 

In a 3-4, there are four highly critical positions: NT, RDE, pass rushing OLB, and #1 CB. The NT is supposed to use up two defenders while being an anchor against the run. You want a guy like Ted Washington or Pat Williams there. The RDE is also supposed to be solid against the run, while being a source of a good pass rush. Bruce Smith is obviously the dream RDE, but if you can't have him you at least need a Marcellus Wiley. The perfect pass rushing OLB is a guy like Bryce Paup--a guy who knows how to get to the QB, but who also gives you versatility to stop the run or drop into coverage. A solid overall football player.

 

The fourth player you need for a 3-4 to be successful is a good shutdown CB. An Antoine Winfield. With a guy like that, you can put him in one-on-one coverage against the opponent's best WR, and know that you'll be okay. The #1 WR will probably catch a pass here or there, but over the course of the game he's going to be kept under control. The fact that you can get away with covering their #1 with just one guy frees up an extra guy for your defense.

 

One of the main themes of the 3-4 is to free up as many players as possible. Each defender thus freed up becomes a source of unpredictability. You can rush your three down linemen + one LB, for example. Even with that, the other team won't necessarily know which LB is going to rush. So that's unpredictability right there, even without blitzing! But if you can add in a second rushing LB, that will make your pass rush even tougher for the other team's offense to handle. A shutdown CB gives you the flexibility to rush that extra man, instead of having to use that defender to double cover the other team's #1 WR.

[stuckincincy]

I largely agree with this post. But there are a few nuances I see differently.

 

In a 3-4, there are four highly critical positions: NT, RDE, pass rushing OLB, and #1 CB. The NT is supposed to use up two defenders while being an anchor against the run. You want a guy like Ted Washington or Pat Williams there. The RDE is also supposed to be solid against the run, while being a source of a good pass rush. Bruce Smith is obviously the dream RDE, but if you can't have him you at least need a Marcellus Wiley. The perfect pass rushing OLB is a guy like Bryce Paup--a guy who knows how to get to the QB, but who also gives you versatility to stop the run or drop into coverage. A solid overall football player.

 

The fourth player you need for a 3-4 to be successful is a good shutdown CB. An Antoine Winfield. With a guy like that, you can put him in one-on-one coverage against the opponent's best WR, and know that you'll be okay. The #1 WR will probably catch a pass here or there, but over the course of the game he's going to be kept under control. The fact that you can get away with covering their #1 with just one guy frees up an extra guy for your defense.

 

One of the main themes of the 3-4 is to free up as many players as possible. Each defender thus freed up becomes a source of unpredictability. You can rush your three down linemen + one LB, for example. Even with that, the other team won't necessarily know which LB is going to rush. So that's unpredictability right there, even without blitzing! But if you can add in a second rushing LB, that will make your pass rush even tougher for the other team's offense to handle. A shutdown CB gives you the flexibility to rush that extra man, instead of having to use that defender to double cover the other team's #1 WR.

 

Another main theme of a 3-4 is having cbs be very physical at the LOS

[stuckincincy]

I largely agree with this post. But there are a few nuances I see differently.

 

In a 3-4, there are four highly critical positions: NT, RDE, pass rushing OLB, and #1 CB. The NT is supposed to use up two defenders while being an anchor against the run. You want a guy like Ted Washington or Pat Williams there. The RDE is also supposed to be solid against the run, while being a source of a good pass rush. Bruce Smith is obviously the dream RDE, but if you can't have him you at least need a Marcellus Wiley. The perfect pass rushing OLB is a guy like Bryce Paup--a guy who knows how to get to the QB, but who also gives you versatility to stop the run or drop into coverage. A solid overall football player.

 

The fourth player you need for a 3-4 to be successful is a good shutdown CB. An Antoine Winfield. With a guy like that, you can put him in one-on-one coverage against the opponent's best WR, and know that you'll be okay. The #1 WR will probably catch a pass here or there, but over the course of the game he's going to be kept under control. The fact that you can get away with covering their #1 with just one guy frees up an extra guy for your defense.

 

One of the main themes of the 3-4 is to free up as many players as possible. Each defender thus freed up becomes a source of unpredictability. You can rush your three down linemen + one LB, for example. Even with that, the other team won't necessarily know which LB is going to rush. So that's unpredictability right there, even without blitzing! But if you can add in a second rushing LB, that will make your pass rush even tougher for the other team's offense to handle. A shutdown CB gives you the flexibility to rush that extra man, instead of having to use that defender to double cover the other team's #1 WR.

 

 

It's always a roll of the dice...

 

http://football.calsci.com/DefensiveLine3.html

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

Nice post. And therein lies the problem.... Revis held out as a rookie to get the contract he currently has and now wants to throw it out in favor a new contract - only because he thinks he's the best ever. What players like Revis (and Peters and Haynsworth and...) are doing is saying the contract is worthless. They play good, get praise; they expect new contracts.

 

I know the counter argument is that teams can cut a player if he underperforms. However, that still favors the player more often than not. How much money did the Raiders have to pay Russell? How much money did we pay to Dockery and Walker? How much money has San Fran given Clements? Yes, players lose some money when they suck it up; but they most always still get the guaranteed portion of the contract.

 

What we're seeing is a growing trend of players holding teams hostage when they over perform. Would Revis sign a new contract stating that he gives all the money back if he doesn't perform as the #1 corner in the league in '10 and '11? I highly doubt it.

 

Personally, and seriously, I'd make him ride the bench and show him just how easy it is to be replaced in the NFL (for all but maybe a small handful of QBs). $1mill in '10? A small price for the message it would send.

 

The new CBA must address this kind of mess.

 

i like the ride the bench scenario.

 

i think some fans see the negotiations as one-sided in favor of ownership. revis has to do what's right for him, etc etc. i see that logic, given the violence of the game, but also see the risk the team takes in awarding large guaranteed contracts to players under the theory of "Look what I did last year!".

 

Revis plays in aggressive, attack-oriented defense run by a coach with a defense-oriented mindset. The significant question for me would be---did the player make the defense or did the defense make the player? i'd think there's a high probability that it's somewhere in the middle. So, there's potential risk and reward for both parties.

 

I'm also of the mind that it is not, nor will it ever be a straight line transaction between "You were the undisputed best at your position last year, thus you should be paid the most". Too many factors---other players to consider, injuries that can cut a career short, the attitude of the player, the general condition of the team as a whole, etc.

 

One thing is clear to me---while the jets have been angling for a Super Bowl run this year, there are a lot of moving parts that could crash down around them. Charismatic coach (and there is a fine line between charisma and crazy), talent-laden team, many new faces, some old jets locker room heros shown the door... This is the type of problem than can impact the team negatively and that's allllllll good for Buffalo fans.

[stuckincincy]

One thing is clear to me---while the jets have been angling for a Super Bowl run this year, there are a lot of moving parts that could crash down around them. Charismatic coach (and there is a fine line between charisma and crazy), talent-laden team, many new faces, some old jets locker room heros shown the door... This is the type of problem than can impact the team negatively and that's allllllll good for Buffalo fans.

 

Last season, the Jets got into the playoffs thanks to one club that traditionally lays down once they have their spot sewn up, and a win against a team dripping with defensive injuries and an idiot HC and OC and a touted qb that has stunk for various reasons, and got to face the same jerks in the 1st round.

[Thoner7]

Better than no evidence. Like for example, this post.

 

You provided no evidence. You showed the stats of WRs on team the Jets played. Revis didnt have one on one man coverage agains tthose recievers 100% of the time. In fact, I bet he had one on one man coverage agaisnt those recievers less than 50% of the time, so why do those stat relate to Revis?

 

The poster you reference need not respond to a snap of your fingers and spend time digging about...

 

Revis is a decent cb, but IMO was given a lot of latitude in the games I viewed.

 

The NFL has a pecuniary interest in promoting "stars."

 

I think he's being stupid, or easily led. There's already a lot of $ on his table, and NYJ will sweeten things. Given the uncertainty surrounding next season, he and his handlers want to toss the dice and go for the throat. Sounds like all-or-nothing.

 

Thats my point and I agree 100% Revis is not much - if at all - better than McGee, McGee just doesnt have a top notch pass rush, or get the ESPN headlines.

[theranter]

You can win without a shutdown corner? Agreed, and the Pats*, as you say, are a good example. All you need are Bill Belichick and a Bill Belichick defense. Extremely good CBs help a defense out tremendously. No, on average, they're not quite as important as pass rushers, but if you can take their best reciever out of the game ...? With no help?

 

Also, take a look at this list of the #1 CBs on the three Pats* Super Bowl winning teams:

 

2001 Pats* #1 CB Ty Law

2003 Pats* #1 CB Ty Law

2004 Pats* #1 CB Ty Law, but he was injured about halfway through the season, 2nd year-man Asante Samuel played for the second half of that season.

 

Asante was a new guy and Belichick looked like a genius. But when everyone realized that Asante was a terrific CB, that 2004 miracle was a lot less impressive.

 

----------

 

No such thing as a shutdown corner? Check last year's statlines for the guys Revis covered:

 

Andre Johnson 4 catches for 35 yards 0 TDs

Randy Moss 4/24, 0

Justin Gage 4/37, 0

Marques Colston 2/33, 0

Ted Ginn Jr. 3/57, 1

Terrell Owens 3/13, 0

Louis Murphy 4/58, 0

Ted Ginn, Jr. 0/0, 0

Mike Sims-Walker 3/49, 1

Randy Moss 5/49, 1

Steve Smith (Panthers) 1/5, 0

Terrell Owens 3/31, 0

Kellen Winslow 3/33, 0

Roddy White 4/33, 0

Reggie Wayne 3/33, 0

Chad Ochocinco 0/0, 0

 

Totals 47/483, 3 TDs. Revis's guys averaged 30 yards per game.

 

Six INTs, 3 TDs allowed. How good is that?

 

Conclusions. That is freaking insane. Darrelle Revis is a shutdown corner.

 

----------

 

Andre schooled Deion?

 

I've done a bit of research and teams with Deion on the roster played teams with Andre on the roster exactly twice. Here are Andre's stats for each game:

 

11/22/92 vs. Atlanta 4/70, 1TD

 

09/22/96 vs. Dallas 5/36 0TDs

 

Forgive me, I don't see the schooling there. And I don't even know whether Deion was covering Andre in those games. Not a lot of support for your argument here.

 

 

zzzzziiiiinnnnnnngggggg!!!!!!!!!!

 

ouch!

 

PS- I don't remember mr. indescructable (andre) ever getting the best of deon either, but di you check the superbowls?

 

 

 

GO BILLS!

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

Last season, the Jets got into the playoffs thanks to one club that traditionally lays down once they have their spot sewn up, and a win against a team dripping with defensive injuries and an idiot HC and OC and a touted qb that has stunk for various reasons, and got to face the same jerks in the 1st round.

 

 

all true. but, the way it played out, they caught fire (and the breaks you mentioned above) at the right time and it went the way it did. looks to me like they retooled for a run this year.

[NoSaint]

all true. but, the way it played out, they caught fire (and the breaks you mentioned above) at the right time and it went the way it did. looks to me like they retooled for a run this year.

 

 

i wouldnt call what they did catching fire. they beat some suspect teams -- a win is a win, but none of them were truly impressive, benchmark victories to point to.

 

indy -- reserves

cincy -- when was the last playoff win??

SD -- what was there last clutch win??

 

when you dig into their season they are a lot less impressive then espn anchors would lead us to believe. they lost a lot of winnable games (we all saw some)

 

and for re-tooling

 

id rather:

 

thomas jones then shonn at #1

shonn then LT for #2

washington over mcknight at #3

faneca of Ducasse (atleast for a one year run) seems like a downgrade

 

 

cromartie is the one that GAVE them that SD game by playing soft

revis is sitting still

Holmes is missing 4 games, and a distraction waiting to happen

braylon is a headcase at WR

sanchez put up nothing of note last year, didnt lose a ton of games but certainly didnt win many, will he improve?

 

thats a lot of question marks for a "SB favorite" as they have been anointed in bristol, especially for a decidely average to slightly above average team last year.