The Auto Bailout

[DC Tom]

Detroit is dead and is never coming back.

 

Yes, we know. Because of the illiterate blacks. You've explained it before.

[Alaska Darin]

Detroit is dead and is never coming back.

Not really the point but thanks for your typical "nothing" input.

[Rob's House]

yeah you know what people should make right? My father did fairly well when he worked at GM, he also picked up as much OT as he could to help his family. I didn't know one line person that made $70k right off the bat without busting their butt with OT.

I realize the concept of supply and demand is over your head, but in most sectors of the economy the price of unskilled labor is much lower than that of the GM employees who get an artificially high wage, largely at consumer and now taxpayer expense, due to the tight grip of the union.

[OCinBuffalo]

yeah you know what people should make right? My father did fairly well when he worked at GM, he also picked up as much OT as he could to help his family. I didn't know one line person that made $70k right off the bat without busting their butt with OT.

You do understand that this has nothing to do with your dad, who for all I know is the greatest autoworker of all time, right?

 

You do understand that the mere concept of an autoworker making $70k is THE REASON manufacturing is rapidly leaving this country, right?

 

Somehow, somebody decided that autoworkers? with no college, no grad school, half ass high school, should be making more then teachers? accountants? anybody?

 

That same somebody has been oblivious to the fact that it's no longer 1950-1965, and the rest of the world's factories aren't completely f'ed. That somebody seems to also be unaware that a whole lot of people in this world can handle the autoworking gig, because it's not that hard to learn, and they are willing to work for $15k a year.

 

Yeah, that somebody is an idiot, and instead of being happy with getting his workers $40k, he decided to push it, and in a few years? ALL of his workers will make $0, and so will he.

 

I heard his name is U. I. Nion.

[3rdnlng]

You do understand that the mere concept of an autoworker making $70k is THE REASON manufacturing is rapidly leaving this country, right?

 

Somehow, somebody decided that autoworkers? with no college, no grad school, half ass high school, should be making more then teachers? accountants? anybody?

 

Yeah, that somebody is an idiot, and instead of being happy with getting his workers $40k, he decided to push it, and in a few years? ALL of his workers will make $0, and so will he.

 

I heard his name is U. I. Nion.

 

Many years ago I was in management at a manufacturing company. The union was offered early negotiations on a new contract with any increases being given out at the time the contract was signed. They couldn't come to an agreement and it was apparent that it wasn't the local union that was the stumbling block. It was the national that was pushing for control of the pension. After 6 weeks of a strike a deal was struck that gave across the board something like a 1% raise but gave control of the pension contributions to the union. So, six weeks of no wages, a one percent raise and a pension that ended up being not as good as what had previously been in place is what they got. I know this is anectdotal but yah, unions are out for the good of their members. BTW, we kept the plant open and with some innovative approaches we were able to run fairly efficiently. We incorporated some of those ideas into new work rules down the road.

[KD in CA]

You do understand that the mere concept of an autoworker making $70k is THE REASON manufacturing is rapidly leaving this country, right?

 

Sadly, he has no understanding of that. Instead of macro economics, the union teaches its members "Just keep grabbing as much as possible and when things go wrong, blame 'Wall Street' or the 'CEO's comp'".

[Dave_In_Norfolk]

So big government buys up a bunch of companies with our money to allow gargantuan corporations to survive at the expense of small business, and you hold this up as a great success? I thought you guys were all about small business and fought against the concentration of power and wealth in a few big entities.

 

In a free market, those companies go under, the valuable assets are bought up by other companies who can use them more efficiently, the whole system becomes better for it, and the government doesn't stick the rest of the population with the bill. But according to you the role of government isn't the protection of freedoms but rather to protect big business from market forces.

 

P.S. You might want to tell Gibbs and the rest of the blind obedient sheep that Ford is doing quite well. How much did they get again?

 

So basically I'm right, but you hate that so you just make up some total crap you pulled out of your favorite place and polute my thread with it.

 

*Of course the crap is gobbled up greedily by the right wing lemmings, but that's to be expected

[Dave_In_Norfolk]

A hundred years ago most middle class families had a piano in their living room. The piano industry in this country had a niche something approaching the auto industry today. Was government wrong to let the industry die? Were all those lost jobs bad for America in the long run?

 

Or what about the commercial shipbuilding industry? It was once a significant part of our industrial base, but disappeared 1960-80. Should we have been keeping those companies afloat these past decades?

 

There used to be alot of people employed as elevator operators, switchboard operators, and in typing pools. People depended on those jobs. Question: should the government do something to bring them back?

 

There is a reason companies fail and sectors disappear: they no longer fill an economic need. If they did, they could charge enough to stay healthy.

HA HA HA!!! Yes, because automobiles are out of fashion these days!!!

 

 

Same with the banks, let them die too?

 

 

You guys are great for a laugh!

[DC Tom]

HA HA HA!!! Yes, because automobiles are out of fashion these days!!!

 

 

Same with the banks, let them die too?

 

 

You guys are great for a laugh!

 

Somebody please explain to Dave the concept of a "market".

[3rdnlng]

Somebody please explain to Dave the concept of a "market".

 

 

I'll try to explain it in terms he might be able to understand. Dave, a market is where your mommy goes to get your bread and balogna in order to pack your lunch for school.

[finknottle]

HA HA HA!!! Yes, because automobiles are out of fashion these days!!!

 

If automobiles - made here, for the prices they charge - are so fashionable, then why did they need a bailout? People need cars, sure. But do they need American cars? Nope. Plenty of better, cheaper alternatives. People vote with their wallets.

[Rob's House]

So basically I'm right, but you hate that so you just make up some total crap you pulled out of your favorite place and polute my thread with it.

 

*Of course the crap is gobbled up greedily by the right wing lemmings, but that's to be expected

 

I'm not sure how you raped logic sufficiently to extrapolate this conclusion from what was written, but all I can see here is that you are economically illiterate and too simple to understand the underlying forces. But why let you're complete ignorance of the issue get in the way of your rant? I mean, cheerleaders don't really have to know the rules of the game.

[OCinBuffalo]

Somebody please explain to Dave the concept of a "market".

More quantitative evidence that they simply don't know the material. I wonder if Dave is blissful in his ignorance?

[Alaska Darin]

More quantitative evidence that they simply don't know the material. I wonder if Dave is blissful in his ignorance?

More like "bitchful".

[UConn James]

Treasury: U.S. to lose $25 billion on auto bailout

 

The Treasury Department says in a new report the government expects to lose more than $25 billion on the $85 billion auto bailout. That's 15 percent higher than its previous forecast.

 

In a monthly report sent to Congress on Friday, the Obama administration boosted its forecast of expected losses by more than $3.3 billion to almost $25.1 billion, up from $21.7 billion in the last quarterly update.

 

The report may still underestimate the losses.

 

 

Obummer and Dave in Nor-!@#$ said it's a success.

 

And by their definition...

 

It's even MORE successful now!!!

Edited August 14, 2012 by UConn James

[WorldTraveller]

If I were the Romney campaign, I'd hit them on these losses to the taxpayers, Delphi and the argument of favoring Union households/Democratic constituencies while trampling private sector workers.

[Adam]

Did you see the video of Obama driving the new Volt a whole three feet? That was pretty funny. Reminded me of Michael Keaton at the end of "Gung Ho," wiping down a windshield that didn't exist to make it look like another high quality car is coming off the line.

 

 

"Gentlemen. I'm going home in my new car."

Please clarify on the Volt? You don't like it? I could continue, but I'd prefer not to put words in your mouth on the topic.

[IDBillzFan]

Please clarify on the Volt? You don't like it? I could continue, but I'd prefer not to put words in your mouth on the topic.

 

No, no, I love the Volt. All 27 of them.

 

My issue wasn't with the Volt, but what it represented in the way the president and media were/are trying to push the idea that the only way to save the auto industry and ourselves from oil dependency was to take it over and hand a large chunk of it to the unions while paying for it with taxpayer dollars.

 

Now add in the fact that they in order to justify the laundering of taxpayer funds to WH friends/unions, they have them make a car that no one wants, and then take a photo of the president driving one a whole three feet while trying to convince us all is well.

[truth on hold]

Wheels of auto bailout were already set in

Motion under bush. Just like the wall street bailouts. Complete transparent partisan BS that will backfire if repubs go hard down that path. Just opens the door for BO to revisit the mess he inherited. Where he's vulnerable is the borrow from China and give money to the states program that was all his doing. It was pitched as a stimulus program when it can be reviewed as a political favor / adding to fed deficit/ example of poor understanding of economics that merely delayed cities and states having to come to terms with their own bloated budgets.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack

[WorldTraveller]

No, you don't fully concede this battle. That would be political malpractice, what you do as a strategist is you attempt to rebut this advantage he has and peel back a few votes. That's smart politics, specially considering that the majority of Americans are against the concept of "bailouts" and favoritism for unions.