BuffaloBill Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 I say the answer to the situation is simple. If you are interested in the story Jim's wife wants to expose then read the book. If not, then do not read it. To me his story and behavior are not shocking nor is it very interesting.
eball Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 So, you don't feel smarter.......Just more thought out? You think you've thought more about it than me? I doubt it......My conclusions based upon experiences put me in the agnostic camp for a long time, and then they put me in the believing camp.........You think you've thought more about it than the millions of people who have dedicated their life's work to God, in one form or another? <ahem> "Most" people are simply brought up to believe a certain way and take it for granted. So yes, I've put more thought into it than most. That's all I'm saying, and I certainly didn't single you out.
Adam Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 Usually you have to think yourself *out* of believing in God, so it ought to go without saying that an atheist/agnostic has put mucho thought into it. Typically a construct of God is established, "science and logic" are applied, and the construct is rejected. If God is objectively real, science and logic probably couldn't directly establish that fact. Science and logic are human tools to satisfy human needs (or at least psychogically felt needs). God is not contingent on human methodologies. Are you mistaking science and religion? We are back to the debate of "Did God create man in his image or did man create God in his image"
BillsPhan Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 I think you and I are closer to agreeing than you might think. Not that I believe we are arguing in anyway. But check this out. Christians are still human beings, that are flawed. Just because they found God doesn't instantly make them great orator's (I'm not suggesting you are insinuating that). But I completely know what you mean and have rolled my eyes at my fellow Christians before on their approach. And I'd admit some people would get turned off by my approach and yet my approach might be perfect for someone else, although my intentions are genuine in both instances. In the end God has to be the focus and hopefully you can look beyond human beings imperfections to find him. Furthermore, there's nothing more effective to get your point across then how you live your life, and to be an example. I tithe right? But yet I don't agree with all the financial decisions my church makes. But God wants me to tithe as an act of obedience. I've had people in my church say they aren't tithing anymore because of a couple of ding bat mistakes the people in charge of the money made. But my obligation is to God, not them. I give to God, and if God puts those people in a position to have control over the money and they do the wrong thing, that's on them. But no one is going to get me to go against God. See what I mean? Now if it gets that bad, I obviously have a decision to make about possibly switching churches. But some people will use things like this to get out of doing what God wants and blame people. When its them. I would encourage you to look beyond people and a perfect God is waiting to introduce himself to you. I agree that the conversation has taken a turn, but this is what I mean by the effect this book is going to have. It's going to get people talking. Never anything wrong with that, whether we agree or disagree. Outstanding takes. I agree that we both share a strong Faith in Jesus as our Lord and Savior, and that is of course the most important thing to agree on out here! As far as Jimbo goes, he is my all time favorite Buffalo Bill and I've been a die hard Bills fan since I went to my first game at War Memorial Stadium (the real "rock pile") in 1968, at 9 years old. I missed Sabans' first two AFL championship teams in '64 and '65, but shortly after that, I've watched every other great player perform for the Bills up to today, and Jim Kelly has my vote as the best of all of them I watched. Bruce Smith, Andre Reed, "Murderer" Simpson, Thurman Thomas, Jerry Butler....those guys may have been more naturally talented. But the leadership qualities, the amazing toughness, and the way he ran that peerless no huddle offense, are the reasons I rate Kelly above them all. So it's wonderful he's come to the Lord, don't get me wrong on that point. But I am disappointed that he was such a lousy husband to Jill all those years, especially in light of the tragic situation with Hunter they both had to endure.
woolley Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 Are you mistaking science and religion? We are back to the debate of "Did God create man in his image or did man create God in his image" No, I am not mistaking science and religion. Just saying that science is not equivalent to objective reality. Before science there was objective reality. Science is a methodology in which humans recognize and explain objective reality (as best as we can, at the time).
Adam Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 No, I am not mistaking science and religion. Just saying that science is not equivalent to objective reality. Before science there was objective reality. Science is a methodology in which humans recognize and explain objective reality (as best as we can, at the time). Interesting. But how can we objectively claim there is or isn't a god- that would seem very subjective to me
woolley Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 Interesting. But how can we objectively claim there is or isn't a god- that would seem very subjective to me Well I don't think you can. I think we can make indirect claims, but how do you attack the topic head-on? From the atheist side you have to invoke specific qualities about the idea of God and then shoot those down, right? If I was an atheist that would bug the hell out of me. From the theist side, how do you really begin asserting that a God outside of material reality can possibly exist? All you really have is deduction or an appeal to authority (Bible, Pope, etc). Personally I'm a theist. The biggest problem with theism, looking at it objectively (ha), is defining God. That's why I'm loathe to define God when discussing this with others, although I have my own ideas about God. The term "god of the gaps" is used derisively and dismissively *but damnit that's the best a theist can do*. I don't like dichotomies...but...its either Sagan's the cosmos is all there is, all there was, all there ever will be, or, it's there's more than the cosmos. The first is atheism, the second is something else. God(s) would be something outside and/or above and beyond the cosmos. The limits of science are so elementary to me that it really annoys me when so-called science types get all brash and blusterbus and talk down to other people. I appreciate the benefits of the scientific method and understand how it's made my life more comfortable, but you can understand how to repair a motorcycle and believe in God at the same time. You can understand how mitochondria work and accept Christ. You truly can. And there's no objective value in atheistic thinking anyhow. You can appreciate the benefits of science and be theistic, so who the hell cares? In the end you've got people like Richard Dawkins and Daniel Dennett in mutual admiration societies basking in their smartness own and the stupidity of believers. So what? Death is the great equalizer, a believer and an atheist can equally pass an electricity/magnetism exam, and the world will continue to be spherical whether humans believe it is or not.
crazyDingo Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 Star athlete treats his wife like crap then finds Jesus. YAWN. Substitute dogs or Buddha if you want to and it is the same story over and over. Star athlete treats his dog like crap then finds Buddha?
bbb Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 Star athlete treats his dog like crap then finds Buddha? THAT would sell some books!
Dragonborn10 Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 What a joke! Cheats on his wife for years likely while she was at home caring for their terminally ill son and seeks forgivenss after finding Jesus. Only in America can people be dumb enough to fall for that line of crap. Why is it these women fall for this bull ****? Kudos to Elin Woods for taking the money and telling Tiger to get lost.
bisonbrigade Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone doesn't admit it. He asked for forgiveness from his wife Jill and she gave it. He asked from his Lord and savior Jesus and he forgave him also. Who are you to judge. You have sinned just as much as Kelly did. Have you asked forgiveness form Jesus.
Guest three3 Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 the ignorance in this thread is of epic proportions. how can anyone be surprised that athletes cheat? the real surprise is that they get married in the first place. look, there's a lot of dirt on kelly, he's no saint. and asking the lord for forgiveness? really, you people still believe in that fairy tale?
bisonbrigade Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 (edited) the ignorance in this thread is of epic proportions. how can anyone be surprised that athletes cheat? the real surprise is that they get married in the first place. look, there's a lot of dirt on kelly, he's no saint. and asking the lord for forgiveness? really, you people still believe in that fairy tale? I believe in Jesus. Ask the people of Haiti, Japan and Chili. The worlds eye's will be opened soon. So will yours my friend. Edited March 30, 2011 by bisonbrigade
Guest three3 Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 I believe in Jesus. Ask the people of Haiti, Japan and Chili. The worlds eye's will be opened soon. So will yours my friend. lol. i really did. i laughed out loud
1billsnut Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 (edited) It doesn't matter if you are an athlete or anyone else...if you have sinned (like we all have), all that we can do is ask Jesus for forgiveness. If you have ever had a point in your life where you had to ask Jesus for forgiveness, to help you forgive, or deal with any other life problems that you are having, then I think that you have to love where Kelly is at. You cant fully be saved unless you are at your lowest point, and if JK truly aked for forgiveness, and is following the Lords word then I'm sure that he is a much better/happier person. I'm also quite sure that he doesn't care what what our opinion of him is. I think that it is great that he was able to change his life, and that he is very luck to have a wife to stick by him. If we could all be this lucky I'm sure we would all be very thankful. Edited March 30, 2011 by 1billsnut
Chandemonium Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 I believe in Jesus. Ask the people of Haiti, Japan and Chili. The worlds eye's will be opened soon. So will yours my friend. What's a suburb on the westside of Rochester have to do with Haiti or Japan?
TC in St. Louis Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 I started going to a real church a couple years ago, and it's done a lot for me and my family. If you're a Christian, you believe that it's a very simple thing. Your time here on Earth is brief, and when you're done you can either go up or down. It's easy to go up. Just believe. That's it. It's that simple. My next door neighbor died last week. He was 52. When he was in the hospital in a coma, I felt compelled to go in there and see if he was right with God. His family was not sure. We prayed for him, because we'd like to see him again some day. I hope that helped him. He was a good neighbor. This has nothing to do with football, except that a lot of people believe that God gives people like Jim Kelly the talent to do what he does. Some people might believe that now Jim's gift is to share his faith with the world. I should mention that the church I attend is the one that Kurt Warner was going to when he led the Rams to the Super Bowl title, and Kurt used that platform to share his faith in God. Is that weird or what? From grocery store bagger to Super Bowl MVP. To praise God. Maybe one person reading this might just think about what a gift it is to wake up in the morning, and maybe you will be moved to do something spiritual. To the cynics, I hope you find your way to a great life. I hope so. Go Bills.
White Linen Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 I started going to a real church a couple years ago, and it's done a lot for me and my family. If you're a Christian, you believe that it's a very simple thing. Your time here on Earth is brief, and when you're done you can either go up or down. It's easy to go up. Just believe. That's it. It's that simple. My next door neighbor died last week. He was 52. When he was in the hospital in a coma, I felt compelled to go in there and see if he was right with God. His family was not sure. We prayed for him, because we'd like to see him again some day. I hope that helped him. He was a good neighbor. This has nothing to do with football, except that a lot of people believe that God gives people like Jim Kelly the talent to do what he does. Some people might believe that now Jim's gift is to share his faith with the world. I should mention that the church I attend is the one that Kurt Warner was going to when he led the Rams to the Super Bowl title, and Kurt used that platform to share his faith in God. Is that weird or what? From grocery store bagger to Super Bowl MVP. To praise God. Maybe one person reading this might just think about what a gift it is to wake up in the morning, and maybe you will be moved to do something spiritual. To the cynics, I hope you find your way to a great life. I hope so. Go Bills. Nicely said.
Dragonborn10 Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 lol. i really did. i laughed out loud I'm still laughing. Again what amazes me is why the women stay? And I agree why do they bother getting married? Athletes/actors/singers why get married? No one cares if you have a kid out of wedlock. Why give up millions to get married?
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