Stadium on the Waterfront

[Motel_Sandwich]

Maybe they can build it right beside the Bass pro shops store...

[buffalobillsfootball]

Beggars can't be choosers but... if we ever remodel Ralph Wilson Stadium - I really hope we don't go with the reno-route like the Kansas City Chiefs. And if we do - I hope we do a much better job with the design:

 

Kansas City Chiefs - Stadium - 1

 

Kansas City Chiefs - Stadium - 2

 

Kansas City Chiefs - Stadium - 3

 

Kansas City Chiefs - Stadium - 4

 

But the architects who designed Kansas City's "retro" remodel (HOK/Populous) have done some pretty cool stuff:

 

Helps Buffalo's fetish with cable stayed bridges - how about a cable stayed stadium?

 

Another cool view

 

I do think Paul Brown Stadium would like nice on our Waterfront

[tonyjustbcuz]

Agree, new stadium would be a great catalyst in developing the waterfront, but for so many reasons (mostly cost) do not see it happening.

 

 

Agree with both of you! When I left for the Navy July 6, 1983 I remember leaving the Buffalo Meps at the Federal Building downtown. My recruiter was driving us along the skyway and on the radio there was a talk show. The host and guest were talking about building a "New Peace Bridge". I retired in 2003 after 20 years and have been retired another 7 years and they are talking about the plans and building a "New Peace Bridge" !!! Is there something in the water that keeps us from getting things done in this city? Not only would there be a better feeling in Buffalo if we really made something special of our waterfront, but there would be more things for the people who live here to do, more (or some) tourists that actually might want to come here! We may be able to draw more quality players (and coaches!) to play for our sports teams if we developed our waterfront, knocked down some old mills & buildings and revitalized the entire city & infrastructure. Yes, this would cost a great deal of money, but this would mean additional jobs, a higher ratio of buildings and condos that are rented out with less vacancies. The same would go for hotels, the buses would be busier, the restaurants fuller, and it would feed a chain reaction and create jobs.

Anyways, a New NFL Stadium might put us back on the map again...and if it's a dome we may even have a Superbowl game right in Buffalo!!!! Could you imagine?? the impact?? I guess you have visualize if it is to even be a possiblity! Well I enjoyed the topic...we might even be able to get a NBA Team once again with all this positive revitalization becoming a reality? A pro-baseball team one-day. We are only limited by our dreams and the only risk is that it doesn't work out, and we're still no worse off as our State can't even pass a budge, and is practically bankrupt.

[ExiledInIllinois]

One if ny favorite Love Canal stories is how back in the day after the Feds settled with Lois Gibbs and the Love Canal homeowners for participating in the pollution of their homes and lying about it, they attempted to set up new housing projects on the "reclaimed" land.

 

They dubbed the new town Sunshine City as they attempted once again to lie to people and get them to part with their nickels to buy cheap homes because they were on land that might kill them and their families if EPA had not gotten the clean-up right as they hired the low-bidder to do the work by law.

 

This choosing of names without regard to reality is typical of the way that government sends the tax dollars of the middle class to big bucks to big business to do stuff.

 

The argument which some seem to have as to whether big government or big business is the problem seems to ignore the fact that these two operations are the same thing. The free market and big government are not two warring approaches they actually are parts of the same thing with the middle and lower classes being the victims.

 

In Buffalo to see this one need only go to the City's Waterfront school. This public school is nestled downtown near City Hall. I discovered the interesting thing to me about it when I was late for a meeting there one evening and had to walk around the entire building looking for an entrance.

 

It was then I discovered that unless there had been a rainstorm which left puddles the night before, one could not see a drop of water from Buffalo's Watefront School.

 

If one was more interested in accuracy rather than advertising (which the folks who tried to sell Love Canal as Sunshine City clearly were not then they should have named this the Highway Front school. It actually is nestled in the midst of the I-190, the Rt. 5 Skyway (a wonderful way to get to the now closed steel mills), and other byways and highways which mar the downtown area.

 

I am told (and have heard no examples to refute this) that Buffalo is the largest city in America on an Ocean or a Great Lake which does not have a public beach for swimming. This is an economic and community development travesty and I think provides a stark example of why the area has such economic problems.

 

The founding fathers (and yes they were all fathers back in the day) made a series of choices which used the natural resources of the area to promote individual private businesses rather than to promote public spaces and the broader public benefit.

 

It as best as I can judge was this slavish devotion to the individual and the allegedly free market (ain't nuthin free in this world) which is the basis for the economic wasteland in WNY today.

 

Businesses and the free market are something which the body politic should support if only because in a society based on checks and balances, it is competition which kills off bad ideas and rewards good one. This is good.

 

However, though business and the free market must be supported, it is fatal to depend on them as the primary or sole force for creating a good world as without the checks and balances provided by a governmental system the winners in a free market can exercise that freedom to destroy the market and take the wealth created and head for greener pastures. The fatal flaw of the free market is that it can make the jump quickly from the golden rule being do unto others as you would have them do unto you as it simply being he who has the gold rules.

 

Being human this concentrated power (which apparently was known at the 18 in Buffalo's critical decision making days, were the 18 older white guys one had to suck up to in order to get something done.

 

As best as I can tell it was these 18 old whit guys who ran things and made a series of decisions which promoted their own individual benefit such as using public dollars to build the UB campus in Amherst and power down the Buffalo based UB HQ, to capture a big chunk of public dollars to build the light rail system (and then to block completion of that system to the suburbs and Niagara Falls rendering the initial investment pretty meaningless).

 

To make matters worse, the powers that be decided to build the light rail system in a manner which totally destroyed the ability to do commerce in downtown Buffalo by ripping up and closing off streets which accelerated the rush of businesses out to the government subsidized building of roads, sewers, and other desired public benefits in Amherst and the suburbs.

 

It really is quite impressive what the powers that be wrought. Amusingly, the wealthy powers that be now lay the blame for mistakes that it choose and profited from on labor unions, the poor, and a government that the wealthy did and still do control (if someone wants to argue that instead it was the poor who controlled the government and made a series of bad decisions please feel free).

 

I know some folks want to claim its location that did Buffalo lo, but even if one wants to subscribe to this theory, it also needs to acknowledge that the location even with its problems of the St. Lawrence Seaway eliminating a lot of the early 20th century economic benefit, that the area has also suffered from a series of decisions (which I am sorry it is hard to blame on the poor or public institutions, or unions because they were not in control of the decision-making apparatus.

 

The problem is that even given some bad location breaks, that the wealthy folks who for the most part ran things simply made a series of judgments which allowed them as individuals to take their money and run rather than stay and be a part of the community.

 

Trying to blame the unions, people of color, or poor folks that moved in to try to run things after the wealthy made a bunch of bad decisions and then headed off for nicer weather leaving the wreckage they created and profited from is actually both funny and oathetic

 

 

AWESOME post! Notice the red.

[PromoTheRobot]

The founding fathers (and yes they were all fathers back in the day) made a series of choices which used the natural resources of the area to promote individual private businesses rather than to promote public spaces and the broader public benefit.

 

Then why did towns and cities create public spaces like squares, parks and beaches?

 

PTR

[Phil Hansen Forever]

Waterfront stadium sucks. 9-10 times a year it is used. After that how does it attract any one? Drive by the Ralph today and see what is happening. Nothing.

 

However, if you made it a open/dome stadium you could use it for concerts, and hotel complex's much like Mall of America in MN. Turn it into something that has multipurpose, and it becomes usable and cost effective.

[JOHNNYFAIRPLAY]

who is going to use the stadium -

 

after the new owner moves the team out of town to a location with corporate base that can afford luxury boxes?

 

Maybe its yet another incentive to keep the team in Buff...? Not to mention the previously mentioned points...soccer, lacrosse, local colleges/high schools, events, etc.

 

In my opinion, its a good way to stack artillery for "reasons the Bills should remain in Buffalo"

 

Granted a stadium is not a great reason...but it will give taxpayers something to 1. Be proud of and 2. Get a renewed sense of ownership and loyalty to this team.

[Marv's Neighbor]

Right on. Cleveland also underutilizes its waterfront, the problem is we have a freaking airport occupying most of our prime lakefront. People are trying to move it, the problem is they'd have to pay the US govt a ton of money to move it/shut it down. The recent Continental/United merger may end Cleveland Hopkins' status as a hub airport and reduce airline traffic, ironically it might allow airtraffic from the lakefront to be redirected to Hopkins and free up the land for the city to develop

 

Buffalo would help themselves tremendously putting more effort into their waterfront. As much as people complain/degrade cities like Cleveland and Buffalo, it always amazes me they fail to maximize their most valuable asset, the lakefront. At least Chicago gets it right.

Cleveland needs to speak to Mayor Dailey in Chicago. He closed Meigs Field, illegally, and dared anybody to make him re-open it. So far, it's still a park!

[yungmack]

It amazes me that, actually it don't w/ our politicians, our stadium is not on the waterfront! I truly do not understand why this was never a priority. If anyone has ever been to Chicago, Cleveland or any other damn lakeside city they would appreciate the frustration here. It is nauseating that there are historic battle ships sitting in a harbor w/ a delapitated grainmill next to them falling w/ time. Not to mention the ten other mills scattered and tainting that waterfront. Hey but some idiots in Hamburg are worried bout the wind mills. We have a gorgeous waterfront w/ nature reserve and a damn thruway along it. The old Freezer Queen plant is rotting along w/ (I believe its vacant) the cement plant, the old Fr Baker's, and many other rotting concrete eyesores. I understand the concept of cost and the damn state goverment's fiscal irresponsibility and not to mention the only reason the Bills are profitable is due to the fact that Ralph owes nothing on the stadium now but come on. They're screaming to develop the waterfront well hell.............why wouldn't you use the heart of this area to build off of?? My Sunday morning coffee frustration!

Very on the money assessment.

 

One of the worst things ever done to the city was Main Place, which not only caused many historic buildings to be destroyed, it was/is an eyesore that makes all of downtown look awkward, out of balance and in no way welcoming. And that idiotic trolley that accomplishes virtually nothing sure doesn't help.

 

Most of the degradation to the core of the city was done or begun in the '50s when Urban Renewal was all the rage. Cities all over the country were ripped apart, highways cut through their hearts, new and often ugly buildings were erected, and on and on. That's one reason Buffalo has the Skyway, and Fr. Baker Bridge, and freakin' freeways in the worst places. And why so many of the old brick and stone buildings (which would now be worth a fortune) were leveled.

 

The waterfront is a mess, and probably can't be changed. I'm thinking of the decisions to, first, put low income housing right on the lake and river, instead of going the other way and making the whole waterfront the focus of more upscale development. And, second, the lack of money to buy out private interests. Third, there seems no real vision among the political and social leaders for the waterfront. Look at what other cities have done (think of Boston, and Baltimore, and Chicago and even Milwaukee).

 

As to a stadium on the waterfront, I think that would be an awful mistake for reasons I won't go into here. But I wonder if you know that the current stadium was supposed to be in Lancaster? That made much more sense than Orchard Park (closer to Rochester for one thing, and easier to get to from Ontario) but the locals got up in arms about it. And did you know that the stadium originally planned for the Bills was a dome? That got defeated because of costs. But it did finally get built...in New Orleans. Yep, that's the stadium originally designed for the Bills. Or so I've been told.

[Red]

Give them 10 concerts. We're now up to, say 20 events a year. There are 365 days in a year. That leaves 345 days of NOTHING GOING ON at a MASSIVE stadium surrounded by SURFACE LOTS. Stadiums are out of place when built in the urban core. They are suburban in nature.

 

I also think you guys underestimate how expensive it would be to build a new stadium in general, let alone in the brownfields that were recommended. Those are potentially toxic sites that would require very extensive remediation before the land can be used.

 

$$$

 

Your math is way off.

 

The concerts are for the summer months. June-August. Bills will be there August-December. That's a solid 7 months per year.

 

Now the only issue is Jan-May, but most stadiums are empty during these months.

[Red]

The stadium might have been viable if the UB Amherst campus had also been built there. The land around the stadium would have been occupied by a very large university, with saturday college games and sunday pro games. The biggest mistake was made back in the late 60's with the decision to go to the Amherst site for the campus. It effectively doomed the City of Buffalo downtown. Maybe the worst mistake Buffalo ever made...well, after trading LaMonica.

 

Thank you.

 

And when you read the empty political decision by boneheads in Albany to place UB in Amherst, when it was all voted, approved, and designed to go on the waterfront...it confirms the horrific representation NY has had for decades.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Cleveland needs to speak to Mayor Dailey in Chicago. He closed Meigs Field, illegally, and dared anybody to make him re-open it. So far, it's still a park!