Stadium on the Waterfront

[PromoTheRobot]

What is the obsession with a new stadium? Seven games a year are played at the Ralph and I think it's one of the best places to see a game. Who cares if it's not new and fancy? It's also not a billion dollars. The problem with people in this country is that they assume bigger/newer = better. Gillette Stadium isn't half as great to watch a game as Foxboro was. Same with Citi Field and Shea Stadium. Relax, people.

Uhhh...the old Foxboro stadium was an overgrown high school schitthole stadium. Gillette is really a million times better.

 

PTR

[Chalkie Gerzowski]

The NFL wants a team in WNY

 

 

linkage please.

 

waterfront stadium? ugh... that thing would sit there vacant for 350 days of the year. let it sit vacant on the Orchard Park / Hamburg border.

[weehawk]

I'm pulling for them all the way. This all started with me stating that I think they are the future of football in Buffalo. I'm a fan. Go Bulls!

 

 

 

 

5-7 is not 1-11. UB Football has hopefully left those days behind. They are rebuilding this season so I don't know what to expect but at least they hired a coach with a strong pedigree in Quinn.

 

PTR

[Leonidas]

Uhhh...the old Foxboro stadium was an overgrown high school schitthole stadium. Gillette is really a million times better.

 

PTR

 

Sorry, but you're wrong here. There were no bad views at Foxboro. Trying to watch a game or a concert from the upper level at Gillette is horrible. Maybe not enough amenities but I'd trade that in for lower prices and better views any day.

[The Senator]

Uhhh...the old Foxboro stadium was an overgrown high school schitthole stadium. Gillette is really a million times better.

 

PTR

Actually, PTR, it wasn't all that bad - save for the unpaved, crater-filled parking lots. In fact, the same firm (HNTB) designed both RWS (nee Rich) and Foxboro (nee Schaefer) stadia - the difference being that Schaefer was a bare-bones structure that seemed very much like a 65% completed Rich Stadium...

 

"In traditional Billy Sullivan fashion, the owner built the stadium at a bare minimum of cost, skimping and cutting corners in every phase of design. Sullivan was reportedly irate when the initial estimate of $6.9 million was overrun by $200,000 (or just less than the cost of a bottled water at Yankee Stadium)."

 

Link - Schaefer Stadium and The Great Flush

 

(Older fans will recall a similar 'flushing' problem in the early days of Rich Stadium - not with overflowing toilets and troughs, but with the water pressure practically disappearing in the town of OP at half-time )

[PromoTheRobot]

Actually, PTR, it wasn't all that bad - save for the unpaved, crater-filled parking lots. In fact, the same firm (HNTB) designed both RWS (nee Rich) and Foxboro (nee Schaefer) stadia - the difference being that Schaefer was a bare-bones structure that seemed very much like a 65% completed Rich Stadium...

 

"In traditional Billy Sullivan fashion, the owner built the stadium at a bare minimum of cost, skimping and cutting corners in every phase of design. Sullivan was reportedly irate when the initial estimate of $6.9 million was overrun by $200,000 (or just less than the cost of a bottled water at Yankee Stadium)."

 

Link - Schaefer Stadium and The Great Flush

 

(Older fans will recall a similar 'flushing' problem in the early days of Rich Stadium - not with overflowing toilets and troughs, but with the water pressure practically disappearing in the town of OP at half-time )

If by "not that bad" you mean you could see the field, then I'll agree. But by any other measure it was an overgrown high school stadium.

 

PTR

[Leonidas]

If by "not that bad" you mean you could see the field, then I'll agree. But by any other measure it was an overgrown high school stadium.

 

What other ways, exactly? What's more important than the views? Who gives a **** about concessions and bathroom facilities??

[Haven Moses]

Lackawanna.

 

Build a complex like Arizona with shops, offices, etc all around it on the old steelplant site. Figure a way to build some offices into the stadium so that conference rooms can double as skyboxes.

[PromoTheRobot]

What other ways, exactly? What's more important than the views? Who gives a **** about concessions and bathroom facilities??

Right. At Foxboro you had the choice of pissing in your empty beer cup or over the rear of the upper deck.

 

PTR

[nostyle126]

Football stadiums do NOT belong in a downtown, let alone along valuable waterfront property. You only get EIGHT marquee events there every year (the NFL team's eight home games) and a few other events. The rest of the year the stadium is sitting there USELESS and EMPTY, devoid of street life and surrounded by SEAS of SURFACE LOTS.

 

The stadium is fine where it is.

[Red]

It amazes me that, actually it don't w/ our politicians, our stadium is not on the waterfront! I truly do not understand why this was never a priority. If anyone has ever been to Chicago, Cleveland or any other damn lakeside city they would appreciate the frustration here. It is nauseating that there are historic battle ships sitting in a harbor w/ a delapitated grainmill next to them falling w/ time. Not to mention the ten other mills scattered and tainting that waterfront. Hey but some idiots in Hamburg are worried bout the wind mills. We have a gorgeous waterfront w/ nature reserve and a damn thruway along it. The old Freezer Queen plant is rotting along w/ (I believe its vacant) the cement plant, the old Fr Baker's, and many other rotting concrete eyesores. I understand the concept of cost and the damn state goverment's fiscal irresponsibility and not to mention the only reason the Bills are profitable is due to the fact that Ralph owes nothing on the stadium now but come on. They're screaming to develop the waterfront well hell.............why wouldn't you use the heart of this area to build off of?? My Sunday morning coffee frustration!

 

 

I completely agree with this. The City has extra money now since Bass Pro played the typical immature high school beeyatch and teased Buffalo to death only to play hard to get and quasi-interested when push came to shove, that we could finally turn downtown into something great.

 

Last time I checked, they are called the Buffalo Bills, and not the Orchard Park Bills.

 

I love the idea of having the Bills right where those brown fields are directly South of downtown. There is enough space to bulldoze it all for parking, a practice house, and a stadium.

 

I just love this idea! It couldn't cost that much to demolish that whole section. Get us a newer stadium, more centralized to business in WNY and Ontario, more accessible, and how about the flow of traffic and business into Buffalo before and after games? Traffic could be backed up, you're hungry, so why not go to a Buffalo pub or restaurant after a game instead of sitting in an Orchard Park parking lot freezing your rump off while waiting for your turn to get out of the lot?

 

People could head out to the waterfront to eat, do something, shop...whatever. Keeping the money in Buffalo. Success begets success.

 

Urban sprawl hardly is the answer to healing an area. Condensing services, entertainment, transportation, games, etc into one hub is exactly what WNY needs. Not 20 small districts all vying for the same buck.

 

Bring the Bills to the Buffalo waterfront!

 

Then we can try to figure out how to get UB there too, as an Amherst campus is just plain assinine.

[Leonidas]

Right. At Foxboro you had the choice of pissing in your empty beer cup or over the rear of the upper deck.

 

Jesus, are you a woman? Who cares what the bathrooms were like?? It's not like it's all upper-tier porcelain now...

[Red]

Football stadiums do NOT belong in a downtown, let alone along valuable waterfront property. You only get EIGHT marquee events there every year (the NFL team's eight home games) and a few other events. The rest of the year the stadium is sitting there USELESS and EMPTY, devoid of street life and surrounded by SEAS of SURFACE LOTS.

 

The stadium is fine where it is.

 

And the Bills couldn't attract and market major outdoor music concerts during the summer months?

[Red]

The NFL wants a team in WNY

 

 

linkage please.

 

waterfront stadium? ugh... that thing would sit there vacant for 350 days of the year. let it sit vacant on the Orchard Park / Hamburg border.

 

Again, why?

 

Do you mean that a major musical event or concert could not work in Buffalo, in the summer, outdoors?

 

You're telling me that a Bon Jovi, The Who, Metallica, Black Eyed Peas, Dave Matthews, and on and on and on would see not value in selling out perhaps a 60,000 seat stadium (since a portion would probably be blocked off) over a 15,000 seat HSBC arena?

 

Move the Bills to their parent City.

 

One of the problems with WNY is that it has too much sprawl. UB should not be in Amherst. UB should have one mega campus, on the waterfront (as was originally approved and planned, BTW). WNY needs to consolidate its benefits in order to maximize its return on its product. Building UB on the waterfront would immediately place thousands of college students with money to spend in the City. They have to eat, want to shop, and will need transportation to get there. Restaurants, retail shops, entertainment...all would blossom.

 

Same thing with the Bills. One of the biggest complaints about going downtown is that there is nothing to do once you get there. Well, going to downtown to see a Bills game could not become a big event for the City. People will want to eat. I'd rather eat at Duff's or Pearl Street than sit in a freezing cold while my buddy burns my burger. Not to take away from tailgating, but you would now have a choice, and that may help to bring more families to football. Restaurants would offer pre- and post game specials. Transportation would be provided by the City at a reasonable price. People may want to then spend more of their money either in the City or at the Fieldhouse, keeping more money where it belongs: in Buffalo.

 

How long do you want to sit and stare and the nothing that is South of Buffalo? How many decades do want it to continue? I can tell you now, nothing is coming in there anytime soon, bro. And the region can't keep playing the Democrat line and waiting for Government hand-outs, either. The City, and more importantly the region needs to start standing up for itself and acting in its own best interest.

 

Keeping the BUFFALO Bills in Orchard Park accomplishes neither.

[jo39416]

Football stadiums do NOT belong in a downtown, let alone along valuable waterfront property. You only get EIGHT marquee events there every year (the NFL team's eight home games) and a few other events. The rest of the year the stadium is sitting there USELESS and EMPTY, devoid of street life and surrounded by SEAS of SURFACE LOTS.

 

The stadium is fine where it is.

 

IMHO not totally accurate. First, its generally 10 events when you include preseason (Granted who knows what’s going to happen with the Toronto situation.) Second, a sliding dome would allow the option of holding more events, such as the NCAA tournament.

 

Your point remains that a large portion of the year it remains empty, which is true. But you forget about corporate events, conferences, etc. that could potentially be held at the new stadium. I live in Charlotte, which has a downtown stadium, and the firm I work for holds our annual meeting at the stadium every year. Additionally, the Lions stadium actually has office space overlooking the field (would not be a huge fan of this.)

 

The surface lot problem should not be a problem due to all the surface lots that exist for the working population that parks downtown every day. Since NFL games are played on Sunday, you generally don’t have to compete for parking space.

 

Finally, NFL stadiums tend to liven up parts the areas they go into. Take for example the Charlotte stadium. Within 4 years of the stadium going in real estate prices increased nearly 25% due to people moving into the area who wanted to walk to the NFL games. New restaurants, bars and local amenities soon followed.

[Bills(70)]

Typical negative, defeatist attitude that permeates out of Buffalo....For all of you who are convinced that The Bills are outta there in the near future, you may want have a bit more hope. Iknow you might just be bracing for the worst, but the one thing people seem to always overlook is this. The "Buffalo Bills" brand is a proven commodity...simply put -It sells consistantly, over and over again. It has loyal customers who stay with this product. The NFL knows this. The NFL also knows that other certain brands do not perform as well....Like Jacksonville, The LA Raiders, The LA Rams an dso on. Just because you put a team somewhere doesnt mean it is guaranteed success. I work in pro sports. The NFL wants a team in WNY as it has proven effective for 50 + years. Quit being so damn pessimistic about the team leaving all the time. You'd be surprised to know how unlikley it is that the Bills would become a team identified for re-location. The NFL is greedy. They might make more money moving The Bills, BUT there is zero guarantee. There IS, however a guarantee that they will in WNY...Stay positive!

Ok, took me awhile to get back to this thread, but, I've read through it. Since you responded to my abbreviated response, let me respond to your optimism, which, is part of what is needed here in Buffalo by the way.

 

Ok, I'll start with this. My company and our staff have looked at Buffalo on the infrastructure side, energy, commercial and civil engineering. Here is where you are going to run into your first problems.

1. New York Politics, I won't go into detail, but I've experienced what is expected at the state and local levels, they are some hefty hurdles.

2. Location, Location, Location. Buffalo is located close enough to New York City and Toronto as well as surrounding other regional cities such as Cleveland, Pittsburg..etc..etc. that is should be able to take advantage of Niagara Falls as a world wide destination, but there in lay the problem. Buffalo is not Niagara Falls and the city of Niagara Falls really has no incentive nor desire to be tied to Buffalo. It would much rather garner its own identity.

3. Anchor Industries, Buffalo's are gone for the most part and nothing has come in to take their place.

4. Quality of Life as a draw for industry to return, not with New York State taxes and specifically the Western New York Region, this is actually a killer for the area as a sales pitch. For example, Niagara County is the highest taxed county in the nation per capita, thats not good.

 

And the list can go on, but the point is, there is a reason young people leave this area, the elderly and those few that have the salaries via the remaining (albiet, small) job market are left to pay an ever increasing and expanding taxation problem that is beyond an "ISSUE", its flat out in crises mode for this region.

Development is near stagnant as is economic growth, but has been for a number of decades now.

 

These are not negative thoughts, they are the reality of the region and merely a handful, the list will get alot longer than what I have mentioned. Oh sure, there is innovative ways to spur growth and lower taxes, but we won't see the benefits in our lifetime, so why should those of us who remain see any incentive to fight a rigid system that feeds off of us and does so without so much as a thought in the world as to the future of the region?

 

A waterfront Stadium? Not in my lifetime, and my 2 kids have already left the area.

The Bills won't be far behind. It will be a business decision and as a businessman, its a smart move for the new owners of the team. I hold no ill will when that decision comes.

Change is inevitable, its not so much "if" we embrace it, but how. This area will in all reality be no different without the Bills here, it will continue its decline until it reaches its own "Rock Bottom".

 

Like I said, these are negativities, these are realities.

[PromoTheRobot]

When "Government" is your largest employer, you're in trouble.

 

PTR

[trolls_r_us]

I cannot even imagine how depressing it would be around here if the Bills left....

 

As it is, we are struggling to get by here job-wise but we have family/friends around and we're both big Buffalo sports fans

 

But as dumb as it might sound to some, if the Bills left, I think we would too. The collective regional pity party would be too much to take.

[ExiledInIllinois]

At least Chicago gets it right.

 

That is because from the get-go, Daniel Burnham's plan was to separate industry from the green spaces. Putting a stadium in BFLO's waterfront would be like putting a stadium in Gary (Buffington harbor)...

 

Anyway... Where are they going to put it in BFLO?... You have interstate (I-190) hogging up the whole area. I know this is going to be hard to believe, but BFLO really doesn't have any MUCH ACCESSIBLE waterfront... That is truly sad!!

 

Chicago is still geographically relevant... What made it from the start is still in play today.

[ExiledInIllinois]

When "Government" is your largest employer, you're in trouble.

 

PTR

 

When one of the biggest owner's of land in the city is the not-for-profit, tax exempt, Catholic Church... Your in bigger trouble!