shoretalk Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 It amazes me that, actually it don't w/ our politicians, our stadium is not on the waterfront! I truly do not understand why this was never a priority. If anyone has ever been to Chicago, Cleveland or any other damn lakeside city they would appreciate the frustration here. It is nauseating that there are historic battle ships sitting in a harbor w/ a delapitated grainmill next to them falling w/ time. Not to mention the ten other mills scattered and tainting that waterfront. Hey but some idiots in Hamburg are worried bout the wind mills. We have a gorgeous waterfront w/ nature reserve and a damn thruway along it. The old Freezer Queen plant is rotting along w/ (I believe its vacant) the cement plant, the old Fr Baker's, and many other rotting concrete eyesores. I understand the concept of cost and the damn state goverment's fiscal irresponsibility and not to mention the only reason the Bills are profitable is due to the fact that Ralph owes nothing on the stadium now but come on. They're screaming to develop the waterfront well hell.............why wouldn't you use the heart of this area to build off of?? My Sunday morning coffee frustration! The truth is ... we blew it! NY State blew it! The City could have been so much better and a catalyst rather than an eyesore if back in the debates of the Lancaster Dome with its associated family amusement park (Ed Cottrell anyone?) we would have had the courage and foresight to not run from a city but to embrace it. But, at that time there was a mentality to avoid the city for various reasons including perhaps too many hands out looking for money. Just imagine now if the Amherst campus for the State University of NY at Buffalo had been built along the waterfront next to the Bills' football stadium, which could then be utilized for UB Bulls' football and perhaps track events becoming more than a 10 day a year facility. Yes, it would have changed the landscape and ratables of Amherst (my home town) but I believe it would have energized the city and the region. But, I sure hope that we have seen the end of the days when local and state governments fund the playhouses of the rich owners and players of the National Football League. It is makes no sense to pump monies into these projects while abandoning the roads we all travel on, leave the unemployed with no opportunities to get back into the workforce, and reduce our colleges into institutions for the elite. The RALPH provides some of the best sight-lines of any stadium in the National Football League. Our tickets are at the bottom of the price scale, the drive to Orchard Park is not that bad of one, and frankly, I don't need the go-go booths of the new Dallas stadium when I go to see some football. Niagara Falls could be lifted up with a Bills' stadium ... downtown Buffalo could be lifted up ... Rochester could be .... but we still sell out almost every game, which is something that even better teams fail to do. Corporate dollars are drying up ... who will buy the seats? Who will sit in the special boxes? Tell me why ...oh why ... do we need a new stadium? I am just excited that we once again have a FOOTBALL COACH ... who wants to WIN GAMES!!! Players with potential ... and hope on the horizon for some football ... I will gladly sit out at THE RALPH on hot sunny days or snow blown freezing days because this is football ... and the BUFFALO BILLS are my football team ... and if the fans get back into it there is a real advantage to the 12th Man at the RALPH that might not happen at some cozy indoor entertainment center stadium that each WNY taxpayer would have to pay for for the rest of their lives.
shoretalk Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 I have always liked to see a dome stadium built downtown, they have the land to do it and would be a natural home field advantage. Play you can have major sporting events like the NCAA's among other things like High school and College championship games. If they would have built the casino downtown( nice try Senecas) there would have to be more shops and major Food chains would come in. We will never see it happen but Buffalo needs something downtown than bigger than a dumb Bass Pro...or Brass rookies as I like to call them. Just a note on casino's ... from an Atlantic City experience ... When the casino's came to town their primary goal was to eliminate every restaurant and entertainment venue anywhere close to where the gaming is happening. It took almost 30 years before a developer finally brought in shops that are starting to turn the city around. You still won't find many local restaurants ... the casino's wouldn't even buy ticket blocks to our minor league hockey and baseball teams that would have given them enough to survive so both teams failed. They do not contribute to local charities ... they discourage other start-up venues ... Atlantic City's Steel Pier keeps trying to be a family option but the casino's keep trying to get them to shut down their operations. The myth of the golden egg of casino's should not be believed ... all they leave is the yolk to clean up after because they are one industry that is not supportive of their local communities they are about greed because after all that is what they thrive on! The Buffalo waterfront is beautiful (if you don't look at the collapsing relic's of the past) with the marina and the naval park. So many lost dreams ... so many lost opportunities .. reading about the failure of the light rail brings back memories of the Theater District's potential ... the Tralf ... oh well, another day.
PromoTheRobot Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 Stadiums and arenas generally do not spur development. How long has HSBC been at the end of Main Street? How many businesses did it draw? Now that Buffalo has 8 acres of empty land you could build a new stadium there. Just don't expect any economic windfall. PTR
BuffaloATL Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 Waterfront stadium sucks. 9-10 times a year it is used. After that how does it attract any one? Drive by the Ralph today and see what is happening. Nothing. +1. Most cities that put their football stadiums in downtown, the area is a crime haven the 355 days/year it's not used. Waterfronts and downtowns need continous activity, not something that gets used sparingly. I was in Buffalo last weekend. Stayed at the new Embassy Suites downtown, drove around and looked at all the new things happening (new Frank Lloyd Wright house was built, Deleware and Elmwood look GREAT after not seeing them for 10 years, the naval yard has some great additions, new buildings going up near city hall). Sure things aren't happening at light speed, but things are moving in a good direction. A football stadium would just kill the area around it. Keep it in the 'burbs with surface parking and tailgating.
PromoTheRobot Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 +1. Most cities that put their football stadiums in downtown, the area is a crime haven the 355 days/year it's not used. Waterfronts and downtowns need continous activity, not something that gets used sparingly. I was in Buffalo last weekend. Stayed at the new Embassy Suites downtown, drove around and looked at all the new things happening (new Frank Lloyd Wright house was built, Deleware and Elmwood look GREAT after not seeing them for 10 years, the naval yard has some great additions, new buildings going up near city hall). Sure things aren't happening at light speed, but things are moving in a good direction. A football stadium would just kill the area around it. Keep it in the 'burbs with surface parking and tailgating. I've advocated putting it in the Falls and make it part of a hotel/convention/entertainment complex. PTR
BuffaloATL Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 I've advocated putting it in the Falls and make it part of a hotel/convention/entertainment complex. PTR That's crossed my mind as well. Even though, in general, I lean towards that being a bad use of land because of what COULD be there instead, unlike downtown Buffalo I feel like Niagara Falls is a lost cause and we should put whatever we can there! I used to work for a company trying to redevelop downtown NF and wow. Wow, what a mess.
PromoTheRobot Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 That's crossed my mind as well. Even though, in general, I lean towards that being a bad use of land because of what COULD be there instead, unlike downtown Buffalo I feel like Niagara Falls is a lost cause and we should put whatever we can there! I used to work for a company trying to redevelop downtown NF and wow. Wow, what a mess. My thinking is that you have a world-famous natural wonder to build on. Yes the USA side of the Falls is a clusterf**k. But if you developed a complex with an NFL team as the anchor you could at least make it attractive on game days. Plus you could draw other large events like an NCAA Final Four, even a Super Bowl. The worst thing is the border. If it wasn't such a hassles crossing the border you could connect with some of the Canadian-side attractions. PTR
BuffaloATL Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 My thinking is that you have a world-famous natural wonder to build on. Yes the USA side of the Falls is a clusterf**k. But if you developed a complex with an NFL team as the anchor you could at least make it attractive on game days. Plus you could draw other large events like an NCAA Final Four, even a Super Bowl. The worst thing is the border. If it wasn't such a hassles crossing the border you could connect with some of the Canadian-side attractions. PTR Plus, when whatever network is airing the Bills game that week has to take their token shot of the Falls, they'd be right there! Seriously though, I have no problem with the Falls idea. So long as they're not called the Niagara Bills like someone previoulsy suggested. That's just dumb.
weehawk Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 The future of football in WNY does not lie with the Bills. A new stadium for them is simply not in the cards and we should get off that topic. NY only builds new stadiums for NYC, not for Buffalo. No one with enough money is going to build a privately-financed stadium in a depressed area of the country that has no real hopes for recovery. Let's talk about a more realistic future. The Bills leave at some point soon (foregone in my opinion), UB enters the Big East, and RWS stadium becomes home to a Division I-A college team with built-in rivalries with Syracuse and Pitt. Dont bother replying that we have the best fans that fill the stadium week after week, blah, blah. A $52 avg ticket price is not going to keep them here. Only big business and corporate money will do it. Things that Buffalo lacks and is not going to obtain.
PromoTheRobot Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 The future of football in WNY does not lie with the Bills. A new stadium for them is simply not in the cards and we should get off that topic. NY only builds new stadiums for NYC, not for Buffalo. No one with enough money is going to build a privately-financed stadium in a depressed area of the country that has no real hopes for recovery. Let's talk about a more realistic future. The Bills leave at some point soon (foregone in my opinion), UB enters the Big East, and RWS stadium becomes home to a Division I-A college team with built-in rivalries with Syracuse and Pitt. Dont bother replying that we have the best fans that fill the stadium week after week, blah, blah. A $52 avg ticket price is not going to keep them here. Only big business and corporate money will do it. Things that Buffalo lacks and is not going to obtain. Thanks for the UB plug but even with a $90 season ticket (see my sig) the Bulls are not filling their 30K seat stadium yet. Plus a Big East invite is still a pipe dream at this point. PTR
BuffaloWest Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 The water front stadium idea isn't new. Back in the day the water front was mainly industry.The redevelopment of the water front has only taken shape in the last 35 years or so as an idea into what has been implemented so far. But, you hang that idea up. As sad a day as it will be I think you and many other fans need to come to the realization that the Bills will not be in Buffalo beyond at the most, a decade. This area continues to shrink in population, there are much larger markets out there. The NFL hay day in Buffalo is over I'm afraid. The writing is on the wall and no politician, no local businessman is going to change this. So, to sum it up, why even consider a water front stadium when the team won't be here to play in it anyways.
MarkyMannn Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 Rather than taking hundreds of millions of $$$$$$$$$$ and putting it into a stadium or now dead Bass Pro, I would rather funnel it to a Toyota and start assembling Corollas here. That's just an example Any of these projects and their spin off restaurants and retail don't pay %$#&
BuffaloWest Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 Typical negative, defeatist attitude that permeates out of Buffalo....For all of you who are convinced that The Bills are outta there in the near future, you may want have a bit more hope. Iknow you might just be bracing for the worst, but the one thing people seem to always overlook is this. The "Buffalo Bills" brand is a proven commodity...simply put -It sells consistantly, over and over again. It has loyal customers who stay with this product. The NFL knows this. The NFL also knows that other certain brands do not perform as well....Like Jacksonville, The LA Raiders, The LA Rams an dso on. Just because you put a team somewhere doesnt mean it is guaranteed success. I work in pro sports. The NFL wants a team in WNY as it has proven effective for 50 + years. Quit being so damn pessimistic about the team leaving all the time. You'd be surprised to know how unlikley it is that the Bills would become a team identified for re-location. The NFL is greedy. They might make more money moving The Bills, BUT there is zero guarantee. There IS, however a guarantee that they will in WNY...Stay positive!
weehawk Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 Yes, it's a pipe dream now, but mainly because of the Bills. I'm sure that the politicos, UB alumni, and the Big East would get behind an effort to make UB a Div 1a program if the Bills were to leave. UB has problems filling a 30k stadium because they suck (no offense) and because of the Bills. If they go to Div 1a, they will attract much better quality players. If they can avg ~50k a game, that would keep RWS generating money and keep it from being a huge drain as a empty building. If the Bills are gone, do you think UB would have a hard time selling 50k tickets in Div 1a? I dont, since most people go to RWS for the party and not for quality football. Thanks for the UB plug but even with a $90 season ticket (see my sig) the Bulls are not filling their 30K seat stadium yet. Plus a Big East invite is still a pipe dream at this point. PTR
PromoTheRobot Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 Yes, it's a pipe dream now, but mainly because of the Bills. I'm sure that the politicos, UB alumni, and the Big East would get behind an effort to make UB a Div 1a program if the Bills were to leave. UB has problems filling a 30k stadium because they suck (no offense) and because of the Bills. If they go to Div 1a, they will attract much better quality players. If they can avg ~50k a game, that would keep RWS generating money and keep it from being a huge drain as a empty building. If the Bills are gone, do you think UB would have a hard time selling 50k tickets in Div 1a? I dont, since most people go to RWS for the party and not for quality football. Maybe you were in a coma in 2008. PTR
weehawk Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 I've been watching UB since the 60s. One good season does not make up for decades of utter futility. '08 was fun, but UB is still pretty bad. Maybe you were in a coma in 2008. PTR
PromoTheRobot Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 I've been watching UB since the 60s. One good season does not make up for decades of utter futility. '08 was fun, but UB is still pretty bad. 5-7 is not 1-11. UB Football has hopefully left those days behind. They are rebuilding this season so I don't know what to expect but at least they hired a coach with a strong pedigree in Quinn. PTR
ChasBB Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 The region has NO VISION. What the hell is up with no buffer between the Niagara River and the 290 for a mile or two stretch. Let's ruin the natural beauty of the Niagara River with an expressway. The politicians are stupid and greedy and have been for many, many decades. The water front all the way from Hamburg to Niagara Falls is a joke with one or two small exceptions. The water front is the key to future success and it is being squandered.
Leonidas Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 What is the obsession with a new stadium? Seven games a year are played at the Ralph and I think it's one of the best places to see a game. Who cares if it's not new and fancy? It's also not a billion dollars. The problem with people in this country is that they assume bigger/newer = better. Gillette Stadium isn't half as great to watch a game as Foxboro was. Same with Citi Field and Shea Stadium. Relax, people.
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