Stadium on the Waterfront

[Bills(70)]

Chicago gets it right only in terms of its location, its the true gate way to the west. It is a city that took advantage, and rightfully so, of its geological location in conjuction with the great mining and grain industries of the Central/Northern Midwest.

Companies such as Agrium and 3M ship vast amounts of resources through the area.

 

Buffalo no longer has that. You want to know what the Buffalo/Niagara region has? It has a great energy infrastructure, including but not limited to feedstock capacities for some green energy and a transmission infrastructure that hits 5 different ISO markets directly.

 

It has Niagara Falls itself, 12 million visitors annually pre-economic downturn, 8 million post-economic downturn.

It has vast Limestone and Dolimite reserves. It has access to not only 2 of the 5 great lakes, but also a vast waterway connecting the Hudson River.

It has the 4th ranked recreational hunting and fishing area's in the country (according to the JAN. 2009 Field & Stream list).

Some of the NorthEasts vast hardwood forest reserves and natural bueaty. The Marcellus Shale Natural Gas Reserves.

A 1.5 hour drive to Canada's largest city.

Some of the most spectacular winter's without the -40 degree F. temps the nation knows (ever been to Neb. or Wyo. in Jan.)

 

This area actually has a great deal to offer in Dairy production, apple and grape production and so on.

 

No, the reason this area has failed to capatilize is really simple. FAILURE OF VISION AND FAILURE TO PROPERLY IMPLEMENT THAT VISION SIMPLY DUE TO POLITICS.

 

It really is that simple.

 

PromoTheRobot is dead on correct, government is destroying this region, plain and simply put.

Pension plans, hired government workers, massive spending to secure voting blocks, it is the exact opposite of the fore fathers who conceived this nation were attempting to give us........the future generations. And do you know the really sad thing is about all of this.................

 

WE HAVE NO ONE TO BLAME BUT OURSELVES, AS CITIZENS FOR ALLOWING THIS TRAVISTY NOT ONLY TO EXIST, BUT TO ALLOW TO KEEP ON EXISTING.

 

Sad, very sad.

But once again, I digress, the Bills will leave inside of 10 years, take that to the bank.

Its a business, and I would fully understand when they do relocate. It may indeed be a sad day for WNY, but look at the other side of this, it will be a happy day for some population center who is on the up swing.

 

CHANGE IS INEVITABLE, Buffalo just happens to be a place where we will be alive as we watch it in its death throws from upper mid size to lower mid size city.

[bills1960]

Typical negative, defeatist attitude that permeates out of Buffalo....For all of you who are convinced that The Bills are outta there in the near future, you may want have a bit more hope. Iknow you might just be bracing for the worst, but the one thing people seem to always overlook is this. The "Buffalo Bills" brand is a proven commodity...simply put -It sells consistantly, over and over again. It has loyal customers who stay with this product. The NFL knows this. The NFL also knows that other certain brands do not perform as well....Like Jacksonville, The LA Raiders, The LA Rams an dso on. Just because you put a team somewhere doesnt mean it is guaranteed success. I work in pro sports. The NFL wants a team in WNY as it has proven effective for 50 + years. Quit being so damn pessimistic about the team leaving all the time. You'd be surprised to know how unlikley it is that the Bills would become a team identified for re-location. The NFL is greedy. They might make more money moving The Bills, BUT there is zero guarantee. There IS, however a guarantee that they will in WNY...Stay positive!

Well said, very well said.

[CardinalScotts]

The water front stadium idea isn't new. Back in the day the water front was mainly industry.

The redevelopment of the water front has only taken shape in the last 35 years or so as an idea into what has been implemented so far.

 

But, you hang that idea up. As sad a day as it will be I think you and many other fans need to come to the realization that the Bills will not be in Buffalo beyond at the most, a decade.

 

This area continues to shrink in population, there are much larger markets out there. The NFL hay day in Buffalo is over I'm afraid. The writing is on the wall and no politician, no local businessman is going to change this.

 

So, to sum it up, why even consider a water front stadium when the team won't be here to play in it anyways.

 

Not sure where you work or live but the Bills aren't going anywhere this has been discussed

[bills1960]

The Bills are a money maker every year. We sold a team record amount of season tickets last year after three straight 7-9 seasons and finished tenth in average tickets sold per game. I don't think a team like the Jaguars, Panthers or Raiders could do that. The Bills have made money from the day they were created and that is all that matters to the NFL. As for the stadium debate, i think a new stadium would be great for the city and the team's image but not necessarily on the waterfront.

[joemac]

Chicago gets it right only in terms of its location, its the true gate way to the west. It is a city that took advantage, and rightfully so, of its geological location in conjuction with the great mining and grain industries of the Central/Northern Midwest.

Companies such as Agrium and 3M ship vast amounts of resources through the area.

 

Buffalo no longer has that. You want to know what the Buffalo/Niagara region has? It has a great energy infrastructure, including but not limited to feedstock capacities for some green energy and a transmission infrastructure that hits 5 different ISO markets directly.

 

It has Niagara Falls itself, 12 million visitors annually pre-economic downturn, 8 million post-economic downturn.

It has vast Limestone and Dolimite reserves. It has access to not only 2 of the 5 great lakes, but also a vast waterway connecting the Hudson River.

It has the 4th ranked recreational hunting and fishing area's in the country (according to the JAN. 2009 Field & Stream list).

Some of the NorthEasts vast hardwood forest reserves and natural bueaty. The Marcellus Shale Natural Gas Reserves.

A 1.5 hour drive to Canada's largest city.

Some of the most spectacular winter's without the -40 degree F. temps the nation knows (ever been to Neb. or Wyo. in Jan.)

 

This area actually has a great deal to offer in Dairy production, apple and grape production and so on.

 

No, the reason this area has failed to capatilize is really simple. FAILURE OF VISION AND FAILURE TO PROPERLY IMPLEMENT THAT VISION SIMPLY DUE TO POLITICS.

 

It really is that simple.

 

PromoTheRobot is dead on correct, government is destroying this region, plain and simply put.

Pension plans, hired government workers, massive spending to secure voting blocks, it is the exact opposite of the fore fathers who conceived this nation were attempting to give us........the future generations. And do you know the really sad thing is about all of this.................

 

WE HAVE NO ONE TO BLAME BUT OURSELVES, AS CITIZENS FOR ALLOWING THIS TRAVISTY NOT ONLY TO EXIST, BUT TO ALLOW TO KEEP ON EXISTING.

 

Sad, very sad.

But once again, I digress, the Bills will leave inside of 10 years, take that to the bank.

Its a business, and I would fully understand when they do relocate. It may indeed be a sad day for WNY, but look at the other side of this, it will be a happy day for some population center who is on the up swing.

 

CHANGE IS INEVITABLE, Buffalo just happens to be a place where we will be alive as we watch it in its death throws from upper mid size to lower mid size city.

If Government was solely responsible for destroying the region, Canada and Toronto would be right there with Buffalo. High taxes, government run health care etc, but when you look at Toronto and the surrounding region they seem to be doing fine and they even seem to like their health care.

 

I have lived around the country and the biggest problem with all of Western NY, is the lack of vision for the future. The heavy industry has dried up and instead of looking for new businesses, Buffalo seems to sit around waiting for a savior to come in. The ones who have, have been snake oil salesman, such as John Rigas.

 

Set aside the negativity and reluctance to do anything, find your strength and move forward. I live in Rochester and watched the fast ferry fiasco and decided it was time to get up and say something, I did and my advice is to get out and go to some community meetings, go to whatever political party suits fancy, get involved. Get involved if you don't like what is happening, it will be frustrating as hell but it is the only way to make a real difference.

[Hplarrm]

Interesting to me to see the comparison between Buffalo and Chicago. I grew up in Chicago spending my first 18 years there before escaping to an Ivy League school where I met my lovely wife and after an intervening decade in DC where I did some fun work we came back to her hometown of Buffalo.

 

Though it may be much to the dismay of the doomsayers on the TSW this turned out to be unequivocally the correct move to make. Like every place else I have ever visited (which is quite a few places since my trade involved a lot of travel and I actually have been to as I remember specific incidents in 46 of the 50 states). The general rule I find is that happy people are happy just about anywhere and sad people are sad just about anywhere.

 

There generally is a glass half empty or glass half full anywhere and folks commentaries seem to say a lot more about their judgments which they make about whether to view things optimistically or pessimistically. While blind optimism or blind pessimism are equally blind. There really is a middle ground of optimistic realism which tends to hold the folks I know and like being with in good stead.

 

All that being said, while Buffalo and Chicago have much in common (both call it pop and not soda, the Great Lakes, city with big shoulders and ethnic feel and division were quite familiar to me when I moved to Buffalo) but there also are real differences.

 

To me the major economic difference seemed o be based on decisions made by the city fathers at the turn of the last century. Buffalo made an economic decision to sell off its water front to private businesses who used the water resource to build large steel mills, auto plants, industries and other manufacturing facilities. There was a lot of money to be made and Buffaloanians made it.

 

Chicago on the other hand actually held most of its waterfront in public hands. There obviously are nodes of development (and an area known as the Magnificent Mile houses waterfront hotels, stores, etc) on the waterfront, but for the most part it is public lands with public access in the form of beaches.

 

Buffalos made out like a bandit for a while, but as it happens plants age and close down and today the Buffalo waterfront is for the most part left with the shells of closed factories, toxic wastes which make the old steel land uninhabitable and the legacy of robber barons who have long ago taken the money to various villas and the jobs to cheaper sources of labor.

 

Chicago on the other hand though it held its waterfront for public access is no economic backwater. Industry and retail are merely backed off of the waterfront by a block or a few hundred yards and the area prospered.

 

Personally, I am quite happy that Bass Pro ain't coming because they actually had negotiated what appears to me what likely would have been an illegal gift of public dollars to a private concern for the $35 million Bass Pro had apparently gotten the City to give up.

 

What should the City of Buffalo and the greater region do?

 

Well, to me it starts with a commitment of the principle of public money for public things.

 

The City of Buffalo should invest the millions of our collective tax # (the $35 million gift to Bass Pro is an indicator that even our poor town there are $ around) and this should be done as it is the way to build business.

 

Businesses come where there are customers to sell things to.

 

Industries relocate in places where their workers are happy to live and work. If Buffalo can make life a good place to live then people will want to live there and businesses will follow.

 

Perhaps the typical American would not want to live in a scary urban place. Regrettable but fine. Like Toronto, Buffalo should open its town to immigrants. They may be funny colors coming from asia, south america, the mideast or wherever, but all of their money is green.

 

Immigrants built this town once before and my guess is that they could build it again. If AZ wants to arrest and harass them we should welcome them.

 

The business rule is buy low and sell high. As depressed as Buffalo and even more so Niagara Falls are it does not get any lower than this economically. We at the bottom of the barrel can compete economically in terms of low price (even any taxation amount which can be higher here is actually chump change compared to the cheaper priced housing advantage.

 

Good riddance to Bass Pro and use public dollars to build more nice parks. Like leeches good businesses will pop up in areas near enough to attractive public spaces to sell stuff to users and visitors of these public spaces.

 

 

 

Chicago gets it right only in terms of its location, its the true gate way to the west. It is a city that took advantage, and rightfully so, of its geological location in conjuction with the great mining and grain industries of the Central/Northern Midwest.

Companies such as Agrium and 3M ship vast amounts of resources through the area.

 

Buffalo no longer has that. You want to know what the Buffalo/Niagara region has? It has a great energy infrastructure, including but not limited to feedstock capacities for some green energy and a transmission infrastructure that hits 5 different ISO markets directly.

 

It has Niagara Falls itself, 12 million visitors annually pre-economic downturn, 8 million post-economic downturn.

It has vast Limestone and Dolimite reserves. It has access to not only 2 of the 5 great lakes, but also a vast waterway connecting the Hudson River.

It has the 4th ranked recreational hunting and fishing area's in the country (according to the JAN. 2009 Field & Stream list).

Some of the NorthEasts vast hardwood forest reserves and natural bueaty. The Marcellus Shale Natural Gas Reserves.

A 1.5 hour drive to Canada's largest city.

Some of the most spectacular winter's without the -40 degree F. temps the nation knows (ever been to Neb. or Wyo. in Jan.)

 

This area actually has a great deal to offer in Dairy production, apple and grape production and so on.

 

No, the reason this area has failed to capatilize is really simple. FAILURE OF VISION AND FAILURE TO PROPERLY IMPLEMENT THAT VISION SIMPLY DUE TO POLITICS.

 

It really is that simple.

 

PromoTheRobot is dead on correct, government is destroying this region, plain and simply put.

Pension plans, hired government workers, massive spending to secure voting blocks, it is the exact opposite of the fore fathers who conceived this nation were attempting to give us........the future generations. And do you know the really sad thing is about all of this.................

 

WE HAVE NO ONE TO BLAME BUT OURSELVES, AS CITIZENS FOR ALLOWING THIS TRAVISTY NOT ONLY TO EXIST, BUT TO ALLOW TO KEEP ON EXISTING.

 

Sad, very sad.

But once again, I digress, the Bills will leave inside of 10 years, take that to the bank.

Its a business, and I would fully understand when they do relocate. It may indeed be a sad day for WNY, but look at the other side of this, it will be a happy day for some population center who is on the up swing.

 

CHANGE IS INEVITABLE, Buffalo just happens to be a place where we will be alive as we watch it in its death throws from upper mid size to lower mid size city.

[purple haze]

Typical negative, defeatist attitude that permeates out of Buffalo....For all of you who are convinced that The Bills are outta there in the near future, you may want have a bit more hope. Iknow you might just be bracing for the worst, but the one thing people seem to always overlook is this. The "Buffalo Bills" brand is a proven commodity...simply put -It sells consistantly, over and over again. It has loyal customers who stay with this product. The NFL knows this. The NFL also knows that other certain brands do not perform as well....Like Jacksonville, The LA Raiders, The LA Rams an dso on. Just because you put a team somewhere doesnt mean it is guaranteed success. I work in pro sports. The NFL wants a team in WNY as it has proven effective for 50 + years. Quit being so damn pessimistic about the team leaving all the time. You'd be surprised to know how unlikley it is that the Bills would become a team identified for re-location. The NFL is greedy. They might make more money moving The Bills, BUT there is zero guarantee. There IS, however a guarantee that they will in WNY...Stay positive!

 

Buffalo's biggest problem. Pessimism. Not without good cause based on corrupt to incompetent politicians etc. But it's on a whole new level now. For all of the negative city development hiccups the Bills could have been moved years ago. They aren't going anywhere.

[nick in* england]

Concerts, soccer, lacrosse, local college and even high school sports. It's about showing the rest of the country your best attribute....the waterfront. A properly placed stadium makes the city look better. Look at Pittsburgh!

EXACTLY - look at Pittsburgh. It's a thing of beauty!

[nick in* england]

A waterfront stadium would do wonders for Buffalo. If ever a city needed to restart is beating heart is was Buffalo.

 

I'm an out of towner (obviously) and I am totally besotted with the City of Buffalo - the boonies, not so much. Buffalo has a wealth of fantastic architecture, magnificent buildings that just have no life to them anymore. That's mainly because the spread of the city has dragged commerce away from the centre like too many American cities. Downtown feels hollow and soulless... And it shouldn't.

 

You get a tiny bit of THAT feeling when you pull off the freeway and see Dunn Tire Park - like you get in Pittsburgh. You could get LOTS of THAT feeling with a waterfront stadium. Buffalo's skyline is already fantastic - a stadium added to it would make it really striking...

 

A waterfront Stadium complex with associated retail and accommodation would transform downtown. You'd have your Hockey Arena, Baseball stadium and Football Stadium all in a couple of blocks - you'd attract more and more people downtown, breating life and colour into a town that is dying unneccessarily. You already have a metro system to connect a vibrant student population in the north to downtown. The airport easily serves downtown. You have a good rail service that stops right in the heart of downtown.

 

We should be celebrating our beautiful city, not cyring about the old steel industry days and dwindling population.

[Griswold]

Politicians.

 

Unions.

 

Pessimism.

 

Taxes.

 

That about sums up the problems.

[K Gun Special]

Politicians.

 

Unions.

 

Pessimism.

 

Taxes.

 

That about sums up the problems.

 

 

 

empty talking points.

[Bills(70)]

A waterfront stadium would do wonders for Buffalo. If ever a city needed to restart is beating heart is was Buffalo.

 

I'm an out of towner (obviously) and I am totally besotted with the City of Buffalo - the boonies, not so much. Buffalo has a wealth of fantastic architecture, magnificent buildings that just have no life to them anymore. That's mainly because the spread of the city has dragged commerce away from the centre like too many American cities. Downtown feels hollow and soulless... And it shouldn't.

 

You get a tiny bit of THAT feeling when you pull off the freeway and see Dunn Tire Park - like you get in Pittsburgh. You could get LOTS of THAT feeling with a waterfront stadium. Buffalo's skyline is already fantastic - a stadium added to it would make it really striking...

 

A waterfront Stadium complex with associated retail and accommodation would transform downtown. You'd have your Hockey Arena, Baseball stadium and Football Stadium all in a couple of blocks - you'd attract more and more people downtown, breating life and colour into a town that is dying unneccessarily. You already have a metro system to connect a vibrant student population in the north to downtown. The airport easily serves downtown. You have a good rail service that stops right in the heart of downtown.

 

We should be celebrating our beautiful city, not cyring about the old steel industry days and dwindling population.

I agree with you.

And I agree with the individual who posted on Chicago and Buffalo and its chosen paths by the (I call them regional fathers, not city, because i reality, their decisions affect a 6 county area) leaders of the region at the turn of the century, and then those that held these positions in the late 60's early 70's.

And I also agree that its not to late, it can be changed, but not by public money, not in these economic times.

A new waterfront stadium would in fact, do wonders for the downtown area, but so to would commercial buildings and more importantly, a manufacturing base and a real drive to entice small business back to the area.

But the most important thing I have seen posted here, was the person who stated that driving population back to the area is the key, that drives commerce in the area.

 

A whole lot of great input and passion from western New Yorkers, and I love to see it.

My company, Eninthal, LLC, is a renewable energy company and I, like many other businessmen in the area, have vision, unfortunately, its who you know and blow that makes the real difference here.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Interesting to me to see the comparison between Buffalo and Chicago. I grew up in Chicago spending my first 18 years there before escaping to an Ivy League school where I met my lovely wife and after an intervening decade in DC where I did some fun work we came back to her hometown of Buffalo.

 

Though it may be much to the dismay of the doomsayers on the TSW this turned out to be unequivocally the correct move to make. Like every place else I have ever visited (which is quite a few places since my trade involved a lot of travel and I actually have been to as I remember specific incidents in 46 of the 50 states). The general rule I find is that happy people are happy just about anywhere and sad people are sad just about anywhere.

 

There generally is a glass half empty or glass half full anywhere and folks commentaries seem to say a lot more about their judgments which they make about whether to view things optimistically or pessimistically. While blind optimism or blind pessimism are equally blind. There really is a middle ground of optimistic realism which tends to hold the folks I know and like being with in good stead.

 

All that being said, while Buffalo and Chicago have much in common (both call it pop and not soda, the Great Lakes, city with big shoulders and ethnic feel and division were quite familiar to me when I moved to Buffalo) but there also are real differences.

 

To me the major economic difference seemed o be based on decisions made by the city fathers at the turn of the last century. Buffalo made an economic decision to sell off its water front to private businesses who used the water resource to build large steel mills, auto plants, industries and other manufacturing facilities. There was a lot of money to be made and Buffaloanians made it.

 

Chicago on the other hand actually held most of its waterfront in public hands. There obviously are nodes of development (and an area known as the Magnificent Mile houses waterfront hotels, stores, etc) on the waterfront, but for the most part it is public lands with public access in the form of beaches.

 

Buffalos made out like a bandit for a while, but as it happens plants age and close down and today the Buffalo waterfront is for the most part left with the shells of closed factories, toxic wastes which make the old steel land uninhabitable and the legacy of robber barons who have long ago taken the money to various villas and the jobs to cheaper sources of labor.

 

Chicago on the other hand though it held its waterfront for public access is no economic backwater. Industry and retail are merely backed off of the waterfront by a block or a few hundred yards and the area prospered.

 

Personally, I am quite happy that Bass Pro ain't coming because they actually had negotiated what appears to me what likely would have been an illegal gift of public dollars to a private concern for the $35 million Bass Pro had apparently gotten the City to give up.

 

What should the City of Buffalo and the greater region do?

 

Well, to me it starts with a commitment of the principle of public money for public things.

 

The City of Buffalo should invest the millions of our collective tax # (the $35 million gift to Bass Pro is an indicator that even our poor town there are $ around) and this should be done as it is the way to build business.

 

Businesses come where there are customers to sell things to.

 

Industries relocate in places where their workers are happy to live and work. If Buffalo can make life a good place to live then people will want to live there and businesses will follow.

 

Perhaps the typical American would not want to live in a scary urban place. Regrettable but fine. Like Toronto, Buffalo should open its town to immigrants. They may be funny colors coming from asia, south america, the mideast or wherever, but all of their money is green.

 

Immigrants built this town once before and my guess is that they could build it again. If AZ wants to arrest and harass them we should welcome them.

 

The business rule is buy low and sell high. As depressed as Buffalo and even more so Niagara Falls are it does not get any lower than this economically. We at the bottom of the barrel can compete economically in terms of low price (even any taxation amount which can be higher here is actually chump change compared to the cheaper priced housing advantage.

 

Good riddance to Bass Pro and use public dollars to build more nice parks. Like leeches good businesses will pop up in areas near enough to attractive public spaces to sell stuff to users and visitors of these public spaces.

 

Explain your new handle name.

 

To sum it up plain and simple... What put CHI in play at the start is still in play today. BFLO didn't fair too well, they have been made geographically irrelevant (demise of the Erie Canal and the building of the Seaway)... Onto the Seaway, you see it happening all around the Great Lakes, it just took time. What killed BFLO opened TOR to the world. Chicago still has it's back door open (and very cost effectively) to the world's waterborne commerce (the canals).

 

Again.. It is all about location, location, location.

 

Name one major city that has been made as geographically irrelevant as BFLO and I can debunk that argument. Just maybe the other AMERICAN Great Lakes cities, but not as worse as BFLO. BFLO is a dead end, and was never a base of anything... Its economy was always controlled by outside sources based at distant HQ's.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Hplarrm... What I meant at first is... You are Pyrite Gal, (what was that handle during the Mularky/Williams era) Yvel Vram, etc.. etc...

 

??

[zow2]

If Buffalo ever did build a waterfront stadium, they would have to spend the gazillions of dollars for a retractable dome. You need that stadium to host more than 9 football games in the cold months.

Also, location is a problem. They can't build a stadium in the midst of ghetto neighborhoods (sorry to offend anyone) or ramshackle grain mills. They would have to built an entertainment district around it that would invite people to walk around before and after hours...to dine, go clubbing, shop, museums etc... Baltimore has two nice urban stadiums just by their inner harbor. They did a great job. I suppose the revitalization of the Erie Canal is a good start for B-Lo but where's the land over there?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

We should be celebrating our beautiful city, not cyring about the old steel industry days and dwindling population.

 

I'm sure there must be an analogue there in Britain. Liverpool, maybe?

[nostyle126]

And the Bills couldn't attract and market major outdoor music concerts during the summer months?

Give them 10 concerts. We're now up to, say 20 events a year. There are 365 days in a year. That leaves 345 days of NOTHING GOING ON at a MASSIVE stadium surrounded by SURFACE LOTS. Stadiums are out of place when built in the urban core. They are suburban in nature.

 

I also think you guys underestimate how expensive it would be to build a new stadium in general, let alone in the brownfields that were recommended. Those are potentially toxic sites that would require very extensive remediation before the land can be used.

 

$$$

[nostyle126]

IMHO not totally accurate. First, its generally 10 events when you include preseason (Granted who knows what’s going to happen with the Toronto situation.) Second, a sliding dome would allow the option of holding more events, such as the NCAA tournament.

 

Your point remains that a large portion of the year it remains empty, which is true. But you forget about corporate events, conferences, etc. that could potentially be held at the new stadium. I live in Charlotte, which has a downtown stadium, and the firm I work for holds our annual meeting at the stadium every year. Additionally, the Lions stadium actually has office space overlooking the field (would not be a huge fan of this.)

 

The surface lot problem should not be a problem due to all the surface lots that exist for the working population that parks downtown every day. Since NFL games are played on Sunday, you generally don’t have to compete for parking space.

 

Finally, NFL stadiums tend to liven up parts the areas they go into. Take for example the Charlotte stadium. Within 4 years of the stadium going in real estate prices increased nearly 25% due to people moving into the area who wanted to walk to the NFL games. New restaurants, bars and local amenities soon followed.

You live in Charlotte. So do I. So go take a look at Third Ward. The whole area around Panther's Stadium is a DEAD ZONE. There is NOTHINGNESS for many city blocks in all directions. You need to walk 5 blocks north to reach development...3 blocks east. and NONE of those developments sprouted from the stadium. They were built to be near the CBD (such as the Wachovia Cultural Campus), not because of the "hustle and bustle" created by the stadium.

 

For those of you that don't live in Charlotte, Google map it. The area around the stadium is DEAD LAND. That would be our waterfont if we did the same thing in Buffalo. Enjoy.

[tennesseeboy]

The stadium might have been viable if the UB Amherst campus had also been built there. The land around the stadium would have been occupied by a very large university, with saturday college games and sunday pro games. The biggest mistake was made back in the late 60's with the decision to go to the Amherst site for the campus. It effectively doomed the City of Buffalo downtown. Maybe the worst mistake Buffalo ever made...well, after trading LaMonica.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I'm sure there must be an analogue there in Britain. Liverpool, maybe?

 

Liverpool's waterfront is open to the world... BFLO's is a 6 month (and that is being nice and stretching it!) waterfront that is on a dead-end. BFLO is and old "break-in-bulk" point that has become irrelevant. Geograhically, given the size of the city, a city absolutely does not belong in that location today. I hate to sound so doom and gloom, but even its physical, natural elements that made it a jewel location has abandoned it. Even PITT is more geographically blessed. Name one big town that has been geographically abandoned as bad as BFLO?

 

Back to the waterfront... It is really only useable from mid-May to mid-September. How do they throttle such a big city down to a simple summer vacation destination? It has too many issues physically (brown fields).

 

Again.. Sorry to be so doom and gloom... Who wants to make a soft right down the lake or a hard left after going up the lake. BFLO passed the torch to TOR when the Seaway was opened, everything else is just scapegoating.

 

Don't get me wrong... I still love the area and would do anything to bring it up to some sort of present dignity... I just don't see how!