Is A.J. Smith a Good GM?

[JohnC]

This discussion cannot take place without acknowledging that Lou Saban delivered two AFL Championships to Ralph Wilson.

 

Consider also that head coaches back then were often de facto GMs too, heavily involved with drafting, trades, free agents, and even negotiating contracts.

 

Saban won two league championships for the Buffalo Bills and their owner. He doesn't deserve to be on the Wall?

 

I'm sure you know my much stated position on the issue of Saban being on the Wall. He not being on the Wall says little about Saban and everything about the pettiness of the baron owner. There have been only two successful periods during the half century of Ralph's tenure as an owner, the Polian and Saban stints.

 

Booker Edgerson, a solid CB, is on the Wall. The winner of championshps, Saban, is not. The Bills are what they are because the owner is who he is.

[BillsPhan]

...The guy might have an eye for talent but has questionable management skills. If I'm a Charger fan I'd be bald from pulling my hair out

 

Really?

 

John Butler and A.J. Smith left for San Diego following the 2000 season. I don't remember the exact year Smith took over for big John after Butler passed away, so I'll just start from 2001 season and compare the two teams since then:

 

CHARGERS RECORD, 2001-2009: 88-56-0

BILLS RECORD, 2001-2009: 60-84-0

 

So if you would be bald pulling out your hair in frustration for the job Smith has done for the Chargers as their fan, what does that mean for the frustration level for you as a Bills fan?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

PS, need to fix that link as it just takes you to the SI home page

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writ...gers/index.html

[Doc]

Marty had just gotten Drew Brees to start playing well before he was fired, Brees openly stated that Marty benching him made him evaluate himself and made him a better player.

 

Think of that Charger offense if Brees had stayed in SD, or even if he hadn't and Rivers played for Martys son who is the OC of the Jets. My take is they could have conceivably won a SB by now.

 

 

Anyway, Turner didn't build anything from what I see, except open up the passing game with Rivers. The running game isn't anywhere close to the way it was under Marty, O line isn't as good, the defense isn't as good.

 

Like I said, look at the teams Turner faced in the division last season as all three had new coaches learning to do their jobs. I would have been surprised if the Chargers hadn't gone to the playoffs. That road to the SB might start getting tougher now as these new head coaches gain experience.

Here's the timeline. Brees (and Tomlinson) was drafted in 2001, when Mike Riley was HC. Marty came in 2002. Brees showed nothing his first 3 years, hence the reason the Chargers spent the 4th overall pick in 2004. Brees had a breakout season that year and the Chargers made the playoffs, and another excellent season in 2005, a non-playoff season, but he injured his shoulder in the final game of the season. Since he was an UFA, his injury seemed career-threatening, and they had Rivers, they let him walk for nothing. In 2006 the Chargers, under Rivers, made the playoffs. Marty was fired at the end of the season, when the Chargers failed to win a playoff game. Turner came in in 2007 and has led the Chargers to 3 straight playoff seasons, winning 3 games along the way. True he didn't build anything, but he got the team further than Marty.

 

 

I stated in that post that Marty had several job offers after getting fired in SD and turned them all down because he was enjoying his retirement(more then likely still upset at losing his chance with SD after posting a 14-2 record), plus he was still getting paid by the Chargers.

 

This year he must have regained interest in becoming a head coach again because he openly stated he wanted the Buffalo job.

I recall Marty saying that he had no interest in coaching again.

[thewildrabbit]

Here's the timeline. Brees (and Tomlinson) was drafted in 2001, when Mike Riley was HC. Marty came in 2002. Brees showed nothing his first 3 years, hence the reason the Chargers spent the 4th overall pick in 2004. Brees had a breakout season that year and the Chargers made the playoffs, and another excellent season in 2005, a non-playoff season, but he injured his shoulder in the final game of the season. Since he was an UFA, his injury seemed career-threatening, and they had Rivers, they let him walk for nothing. In 2006 the Chargers, under Rivers, made the playoffs. Marty was fired at the end of the season, when the Chargers failed to win a playoff game. Turner came in in 2007 and has led the Chargers to 3 straight playoff seasons, winning 3 games along the way. True he didn't build anything, but he got the team further than Marty.

 

 

I recall Marty saying that he had no interest in coaching again.

Still, look at the division...basically 3 rookie head coaches in Denver-Kansas City-Oakland. I still contend that the Chargers could have already won a super bowl or two if Marty S stays at SD.

 

 

 

 

okie, I will link the story by ESPN so you believe me.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/...anted-bills-gig

 

ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. -- Contrary to the diplomatic comments he made on his radio show, Marty Schottenheimer actually did want the Buffalo Bills head-coaching job.

 

Badly.

[Doc]

Still, look at the division...basically 3 rookie head coaches in Denver-Kansas City-Oakland. I still contend that the Chargers could have already won a super bowl or two if Marty S stays at SD.

With a 5-13 playoff record, and 0-2 with the Chargers, while Turner was 3-3, I disagree. I think that the Chargers, given all their talent and failing to reach a SB, have been a major disappointment this decade.

 

okie, I will link the story by ESPN so you believe me.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/...anted-bills-gig

 

ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. -- Contrary to the diplomatic comments he made on his radio show, Marty Schottenheimer actually did want the Buffalo Bills head-coaching job.

 

Badly.

I guess in the face of anything refuting this, I'll have to accept it. But I'd like to know what Ralph wasn't comfortable with? Was it Marty's demeanor? His playoff record? That he hadn't received many/any HC'ing offers since being fired at the end of 2006?

[Thurman#1]

If the fans wise up and stop paying for as inferior product, the stadium stops selling out, fans start wearing bags on their heads...who knows.

 

 

 

The Toronto Bills. Has a nice ring to it. The Los Angeles Bills. Nope, don't like that one.

 

But if you like the sound of either one, yeah, stop paying and buying an inferior product. Ralph's prices are the lowest in the league. A Bills game is a bargain. Haven't been in a decade (the season falls in the middle of the semester of the school where I teach, and Tokyo to Buffalo round-trip will wear you out and cost an awful lot for a football game. But I've managed to get to training camp three times and I buy Bills merchandise.

 

Keep 'em in Buffalo, Ralph!!

[Thurman#1]

I'm sure you know my much stated position on the issue of Saban being on the Wall. He not being on the Wall says little about Saban and everything about the pettiness of the baron owner. There have been only two successful periods during the half century of Ralph's tenure as an owner, the Polian and Saban stints.

 

Booker Edgerson, a solid CB, is on the Wall. The winner of championshps, Saban, is not. The Bills are what they are because the owner is who he is.

 

 

Actually, there have been several very successful stints, not just two. The Joe Cribbs years, for instance. The Wade Phillips years. One or two others. More bad or mediocre years than good, but saying there were only two times we had success is undervaluing a lot of good years.

[thewildrabbit]

The Toronto Bills. Has a nice ring to it. The Los Angeles Bills. Nope, don't like that one.

 

But if you like the sound of either one, yeah, stop paying and buying an inferior product. Ralph's prices are the lowest in the league. A Bills game is a bargain. Haven't been in a decade (the season falls in the middle of the semester of the school where I teach, and Tokyo to Buffalo round-trip will wear you out and cost an awful lot for a football game. But I've managed to get to training camp three times and I buy Bills merchandise.

 

Keep 'em in Buffalo, Ralph!!

Not to me, I'll more then likely start rooting for another team if they move away from Buffalo...

[thewildrabbit]

With a 5-13 playoff record, and 0-2 with the Chargers, while Turner was 3-3, I disagree. I think that the Chargers, given all their talent and failing to reach a SB, have been a major disappointment this decade.

 

 

I guess in the face of anything refuting this, I'll have to accept it. But I'd like to know what Ralph wasn't comfortable with? Was it Marty's demeanor? His playoff record? That he hadn't received many/any HC'ing offers since being fired at the end of 2006?

Must I link everything for you to believe me...The Ravens 2x, Falcons, Dolphins all wanted to hire Marty after he was fired from SD, I'm sure there were more that we didn't hear about. If you read thru the lines most of the Charger players as well as most of the world was shocked to see the guy get fired at SD, I know I was. I like the guy and was pulling for him and the Chargers to finally win a SB.

 

Ravens | Team talks with M. Schottenheimer

 

Sat, 12 Jan 2008 01:29:22 -0500

 

Harvey Fialkov, of the South Florida Sun-Sentinel, reports the Baltimore Ravens have talked with former San Diego Chargers head coach Marty Schottenheimer about their head coaching vacancy, according to Schottenheimer's agent.

 

 

Read more: http://www.kffl.com/player/1980/nfl#ixzz0vY1MD4Hp

 

 

How many games did John Elway win and how many times did he lose the Super Bowl before he hooked up with the right coach and eventually won 2 SB's, sometimes all it takes is the right chemistry.

 

 

The way I see it Marty has a terrific winning record and has a penchant for rebuilding bad teams into playoff teams. Like Thurman stated in an eariler post that perhaps his teams simply over achieved getting to the playoffs as the guy is a supreme motivator, with the right assistants he could easily win a SB IMHO.

[billsfan_34]

I think you will see losing Nix was hard on SD. Good for us though.

 

PTR

Just like losing Pioli is proving to be hard on New England. Since he has been gone that team has slowly been eroding. I think Nix was the mastermind behind the Chargers success.

[JohnC]

Actually, there have been several very successful stints, not just two. The Joe Cribbs years, for instance. The Wade Phillips years. One or two others. More bad or mediocre years than good, but saying there were only two times we had success is undervaluing a lot of good years.

 

How many titles during the period of time you make reference to? I'm not disputing your good point? Just curious?

[Doc]

Must I link everything for you to believe me...The Ravens 2x, Falcons, Dolphins all wanted to hire Marty after he was fired from SD, I'm sure there were more that we didn't hear about. If you read thru the lines most of the Charger players as well as most of the world was shocked to see the guy get fired at SD, I know I was. I like the guy and was pulling for him and the Chargers to finally win a SB.

 

Ravens | Team talks with M. Schottenheimer

 

Sat, 12 Jan 2008 01:29:22 -0500

 

Harvey Fialkov, of the South Florida Sun-Sentinel, reports the Baltimore Ravens have talked with former San Diego Chargers head coach Marty Schottenheimer about their head coaching vacancy, according to Schottenheimer's agent.

 

 

Read more: http://www.kffl.com/player/1980/nfl#ixzz0vY1MD4Hp

 

 

How many games did John Elway win and how many times did he lose the Super Bowl before he hooked up with the right coach and eventually won 2 SB's, sometimes all it takes is the right chemistry.

 

 

The way I see it Marty has a terrific winning record and has a penchant for rebuilding bad teams into playoff teams. Like Thurman stated in an eariler post that perhaps his teams simply over achieved getting to the playoffs as the guy is a supreme motivator, with the right assistants he could easily win a SB IMHO.

Okay, I believe you. Perhaps Ralph wasn't comfortable that he was interviewed for those jobs, but not hired? I don't know. I think it's odd that he hasn't been hired since being fired at the end of 2006. And I doubt he was waiting all along for the Bills' HC'ing gig. But his playoff futility pretty much speaks for itself.

[thewildrabbit]

Okay, I believe you. Perhaps Ralph wasn't comfortable that he was interviewed for those jobs, but not hired? I don't know. I think it's odd that he hasn't been hired since being fired at the end of 2006. And I doubt he was waiting all along for the Bills' HC'ing gig. But his playoff futility pretty much speaks for itself.

He turned down the jobs offered to him, and told them he didn't care to coach ever again as he stated he was enjoying his retirement. My guess is that he was still upset the way the Chargers and SJ Smith treated him and just wanted time away form the game.

 

I'll bet he regained his desire to coach again after being idle for so long, Dick Vermiel returned after a long time away from coaching to win a SB, heck even Marv Levy wanted to coach the Bills again.

 

His playoff record does stink, but then it sure would be nice to even see the Bills in the playoffs again... or even finish a season with a winning record.

[Doc]

He turned down the jobs offered to him, and told them he didn't care to coach ever again as he stated he was enjoying his retirement. My guess is that he was still upset the way the Chargers and SJ Smith treated him and just wanted time away form the game.

 

I'll bet he regained his desire to coach again after being idle for so long, Dick Vermiel returned after a long time away from coaching to win a SB, heck even Marv Levy wanted to coach the Bills again.

 

His playoff record does stink, but then it sure would be nice to even see the Bills in the playoffs again... or even finish a season with a winning record.

True.