In Case you were wondering why we drafted Spiller 9th

[CosmicBills]

I think it's hard to argue against taking the best player when you're on the clock.

In almost any other situation I'd agree. But when it's a RB, I have to disagree. RBs are the most overvalued position in the NFL.

[CosmicBills]

Not trying to be a smartass, but would you be willing to go out on a limb and tell me which players from this draft, picked after Spiller, are going to be All Pros? Heck, just tell me who's going to be on the All Rookie teams. I'll settle for that.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Nope. I can't. I'm not a draftnik. But then again, it's not my business or my job to do that. It's the people in the front office's job to do that.

 

When Nix was hired I was willing to cast aside the fact that he was an old man in a young man's job. I was willing to forget the fact that the organization made a move from within rather than going with an outside hire. I was willing to trust in their judgment because he said all the right things when he was hired.

 

The best part of heading into the draft this past year was that the Bills have so many holes there was NO way they could screw up their first pick ... unless they took a RB or DB. This team has used 4 first round picks on RBs over the past decade. FOUR. They've used FIVE high picks if you include the second round selection of Travis Henry. From Smith to Lynch it's been a revolving door position. Smith was supposed to be the RB of the future for the Bills and he had some great years. Then, while he was still in his prime they bring in Travis. The next Thurman Thomas. We ran him out of town despite his warrior heart and production in favor of Willis who was on one leg. Still, Willis was supposed to be a stud super star. And he was good. Then run out of town in favor of Lynch -- who was usurped by a talent from NFL Europe. And now, he's being run out by the next shiny new toy.

 

RBs are over valued. It's a passing league now. You can't win a championship without a marque, franchise QB. You just can't. And a franchise QB needs at least an adequate line in front of him ... the Bills have neither.

 

But what's done is done. Season is here so I'm done complaining about it. I just have very little faith that Nix being in charge is any different. This team is still in dire need of direction. And Nix isn't the one to provide it.

[CodeMonkey]

RBs are over valued. It's a passing league now. You can't win a championship without a marque, franchise QB. You just can't. And a franchise QB needs at least an adequate line in front of him ... the Bills have neither.

I'm not so sure the good ole boys agree. Being old school they may well think that a run-centric offense can be successful today. That could certainly explain their eagerness to grab Spiller as well as the seeming lack of concern over the lack of a passing game.

 

I've never met Buddy or Chan and certainly have no window into their thoughts. Just making an observation.

[K-9]

Nope. I can't. I'm not a draftnik. But then again, it's not my business or my job to do that. It's the people in the front office's job to do that.

 

When Nix was hired I was willing to cast aside the fact that he was an old man in a young man's job. I was willing to forget the fact that the organization made a move from within rather than going with an outside hire. I was willing to trust in their judgment because he said all the right things when he was hired.

 

The best part of heading into the draft this past year was that the Bills have so many holes there was NO way they could screw up their first pick ... unless they took a RB or DB. This team has used 4 first round picks on RBs over the past decade. FOUR. They've used FIVE high picks if you include the second round selection of Travis Henry. From Smith to Lynch it's been a revolving door position. Smith was supposed to be the RB of the future for the Bills and he had some great years. Then, while he was still in his prime they bring in Travis. The next Thurman Thomas. We ran him out of town despite his warrior heart and production in favor of Willis who was on one leg. Still, Willis was supposed to be a stud super star. And he was good. Then run out of town in favor of Lynch -- who was usurped by a talent from NFL Europe. And now, he's being run out by the next shiny new toy.

 

RBs are over valued. It's a passing league now. You can't win a championship without a marque, franchise QB. You just can't. And a franchise QB needs at least an adequate line in front of him ... the Bills have neither.

 

But what's done is done. Season is here so I'm done complaining about it. I just have very little faith that Nix being in charge is any different. This team is still in dire need of direction. And Nix isn't the one to provide it.

 

I respect your position that it's not your job to figure out who's going to be an All Pro or even make the All Rookie teams.

 

But there isn't a GM, Scout, Personnel Director, coach, or assistant that can tell me that either. Nobody can. That's the point. You can't criticize the FO for not being able to see the future. They can only go by what a player has done in college, his intelligence, and his demonstrated character. That's pretty much it. The rest is a crapshoot.

 

I wouldn't confine the job description of a GM to being "a young man's job" only. That's short-sighted. For too many reasons to list.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on RBs being over-valued. But I think we can both agree that playmakers are never over-valued. None of the RBs we've had since OJ (with apologies to TT) have shown the type of explosive playmaking ability over the course of their college careers that Spiller has demonstrated. None of them, since OJ, possess the same combination of athletic gifts, either.

 

The argument, as it has since draft day, boils down to need vs. best player available. I know which side you reside on. I will always contend that you can't go wrong taking the BPA. Picking for need results in reaches more often that not. Selecting BPA usually results in getting good players that help your team over time. Again, we got the best playmaker in the draft.

 

Like I always say, playmaker is ALWAYS a position of need.

 

I agree with you in that we need to just let the debate end. What's done is done. We can rehash once Spiller either busts or validates himself.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Alaska Darin]

I respect your position that it's not your job to figure out who's going to be an All Pro or even make the All Rookie teams.

 

But there isn't a GM, Scout, Personnel Director, coach, or assistant that can tell me that either. Nobody can. That's the point. You can't criticize the FO for not being able to see the future. They can only go by what a player has done in college, his intelligence, and his demonstrated character. That's pretty much it. The rest is a crapshoot.

 

I wouldn't confine the job description of a GM to being "a young man's job" only. That's short-sighted. For too many reasons to list.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on RBs being over-valued. But I think we can both agree that playmakers are never over-valued. None of the RBs we've had since OJ (with apologies to TT) have shown the type of explosive playmaking ability over the course of their college careers that Spiller has demonstrated. None of them, since OJ, possess the same combination of athletic gifts, either.

 

The argument, as it has since draft day, boils down to need vs. best player available. I know which side you reside on. I will always contend that you can't go wrong taking the BPA. Picking for need results in reaches more often that not. Selecting BPA usually results in getting good players that help your team over time. Again, we got the best playmaker in the draft.

 

Like I always say, playmaker is ALWAYS a position of need.

 

I agree with you in that we need to just let the debate end. What's done is done. We can rehash once Spiller either busts or validates himself.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Well said.

[CarolinaBill]

I forget, what team traded up to the 10 spot after we picked.....anybody, anybody, thats right NOBODY DID, this whole hypothetical argument about trading back requires a trade partner, which apparently didnt exist until denver came back to get tebow.

Trading back wasnt an option, Nix didnt like any of the qb's clearly, and didnt feel any of the remaining ot's were worthy of the 9 spot.

 

you may be in love with the idea that Nix is stupid because he didnt make a deal with your imaginary team to trade back, but guess what, that not reality, the reality is that nobody was willing to make the jump, and we didnt want to move in the first place, we took the most explosive/versatile playmaker in the draft and still somehow you dislike the pick, get over it, I promise you wont hate the pick when he's helping us win games.

[BillsVet]

I'm not so sure the good ole boys agree. Being old school they may well think that a run-centric offense can be successful today. That could certainly explain their eagerness to grab Spiller as well as the seeming lack of concern over the lack of a passing game.

 

I've never met Buddy or Chan and certainly have no window into their thoughts. Just making an observation.

 

I'd count the following teams as strong running teams: NYJ, BAL, JAC, MIN, and CAR. Of that group, MIN, NYJ, and BAL made the playoffs and all 3 were backed up with strong defenses.

 

I can understand Buffalo not going for Bulaga or Anthony Davis at 9 if they didn't like them. Unfortunately, they've left themselves a huge hole at OT and expecting a RB to make up for that is ridiculous. I think the lack of talent at OT is going to hurt even more this season.

[tennesseeboy]

I forget, what team traded up to the 10 spot after we picked.....anybody, anybody, thats right NOBODY DID, this whole hypothetical argument about trading back requires a trade partner, which apparently didnt exist until denver came back to get tebow.

Trading back wasnt an option, Nix didnt like any of the qb's clearly, and didnt feel any of the remaining ot's were worthy of the 9 spot.

 

you may be in love with the idea that Nix is stupid because he didnt make a deal with your imaginary team to trade back, but guess what, that not reality, the reality is that nobody was willing to make the jump, and we didnt want to move in the first place, we took the most explosive/versatile playmaker in the draft and still somehow you dislike the pick, get over it, I promise you wont hate the pick when he's helping us win games.

no no no....I think Nix is stupid because he failed to fix the most glaring hole on the team. Offensive tackle. I don't care if he drafted two, traded up for two, traded down for two, used free agency to get two or if he friggin cloned them from tackle from past years. He's stupid for not addressing this need now.

 

He'll do it next year? He'll have more holes next year. This isn't 1990. Your stars aren't going to stay unless there is a real turn around. Come to think of it..he's stupid for not realizing that fact either.

[CosmicBills]

I'm not so sure the good ole boys agree. Being old school they may well think that a run-centric offense can be successful today. That could certainly explain their eagerness to grab Spiller as well as the seeming lack of concern over the lack of a passing game.

 

I've never met Buddy or Chan and certainly have no window into their thoughts. Just making an observation.

I agree with you. And that's my point. That line of thinking is flat wrong. And if they're trying to mold the team with that plan in mind, it's going to take another rebuilding phase and a new GM to come in and right the ship before this team can become a serious championship contender.

[CosmicBills]

I respect your position that it's not your job to figure out who's going to be an All Pro or even make the All Rookie teams.

 

But there isn't a GM, Scout, Personnel Director, coach, or assistant that can tell me that either. Nobody can. That's the point. You can't criticize the FO for not being able to see the future. They can only go by what a player has done in college, his intelligence, and his demonstrated character. That's pretty much it. The rest is a crapshoot.

 

I wouldn't confine the job description of a GM to being "a young man's job" only. That's short-sighted. For too many reasons to list.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on RBs being over-valued. But I think we can both agree that playmakers are never over-valued. None of the RBs we've had since OJ (with apologies to TT) have shown the type of explosive playmaking ability over the course of their college careers that Spiller has demonstrated. None of them, since OJ, possess the same combination of athletic gifts, either.

 

The argument, as it has since draft day, boils down to need vs. best player available. I know which side you reside on. I will always contend that you can't go wrong taking the BPA. Picking for need results in reaches more often that not. Selecting BPA usually results in getting good players that help your team over time. Again, we got the best playmaker in the draft.

 

Like I always say, playmaker is ALWAYS a position of need.

 

I agree with you in that we need to just let the debate end. What's done is done. We can rehash once Spiller either busts or validates himself.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Well said. And, let me say one thing about the last thing you wrote, I'm ROOTING for Spiller to be a huge hit. I'm not someone who roots to be right over the good of the team they love. You know?

 

Also, just a finer point -- I didn't mean to imply that only young GMs can succeed. That's clearly not true. But when you're starting what is potentially a 3 year rebuilding process (these holes can't be filled in one off season), I'd prefer to have the job be done by someone who won't be damn near 75 when it's done. That's all I meant by that.

[CosmicBills]

I forget, what team traded up to the 10 spot after we picked.....anybody, anybody, thats right NOBODY DID, this whole hypothetical argument about trading back requires a trade partner, which apparently didnt exist until denver came back to get tebow.

Trading back wasnt an option, Nix didnt like any of the qb's clearly, and didnt feel any of the remaining ot's were worthy of the 9 spot.

 

you may be in love with the idea that Nix is stupid because he didnt make a deal with your imaginary team to trade back, but guess what, that not reality, the reality is that nobody was willing to make the jump, and we didnt want to move in the first place, we took the most explosive/versatile playmaker in the draft and still somehow you dislike the pick, get over it, I promise you wont hate the pick when he's helping us win games.

First, you're just flat out wrong in your assumption that there was no movement to be had in the draft. There were PLENTY. Denver traded the 11 to SF for the 13, Miami traded back from 12th, Denver traded back AGAIN from 13 to 24 ... etc etc. There were moves to be made.

 

But really you're just missing my real point and honing in on the wrong thing. The point is they didn't TRY to make a trade. They picked Spiller right away without even looking. I'd be totally fine with them taking Spiller if they tried and failed to move back. But they didn't.

 

And that's what's alarming. Because of what THAT shows about their thought process on how to build a team in the modern NFL. You don't do it with RBs. Not when you have huge holes at far more important positions.

[CosmicBills]

I'd count the following teams as strong running teams: NYJ, BAL, JAC, MIN, and CAR. Of that group, MIN, NYJ, and BAL made the playoffs and all 3 were backed up with strong defenses.

 

I can understand Buffalo not going for Bulaga or Anthony Davis at 9 if they didn't like them. Unfortunately, they've left themselves a huge hole at OT and expecting a RB to make up for that is ridiculous. I think the lack of talent at OT is going to hurt even more this season.

And none of those teams won the Super Bowl.

 

In the past decade no team has won the Super Bowl without a Franchise QB. None.

 

I'm not talking about getting to the playoffs. Yes, a good running game and no QB can get you 9 wins, maybe 10 and if you get hot you can make a run in the playoffs. But in order to with CHAMPIONSHIPS, you need to have that key component.

[OCinBuffalo]

I just like to see a guy that fakes out his own WRs, never mind the DBs, because he's in the defensive backfield, because he broke the LBs ankles, because he switched fields after the play was going nowhere.

 

Somehow, that's a guy I want on my team.

[CarolinaBill]

And none of those teams won the Super Bowl.

 

In the past decade no team has won the Super Bowl without a Franchise QB. None.

I'm not talking about getting to the playoffs. Yes, a good running game and no QB can get you 9 wins, maybe 10 and if you get hot you can make a run in the playoffs. But in order to with CHAMPIONSHIPS, you need to have that key component.

ravens, bucs

[CosmicBills]

ravens, bucs

Both had franchise type QBs.

 

The Ravens won in 2001 (9 years ago, so on the bubble of what we're really talking about) but Dilfer was a probowl QB who played on a run first, defensive team. And yes, they won. But he's still better than any of the QBs on the Bills roster since Bledsoe left.

 

The Bucs won in 97, that's 13 years ago! 13!!! The game has changed. Which is my point. But, still, the Bucs had Johnson -- another probowl, franchise type QB.

[mpl6876]

ravens, bucs

 

What kind of offensive line did those teams have. Were they comparable to our current OL? Answer No not even close.

[CarolinaBill]

Both had franchise type QBs.

 

The Ravens won in 2001 (9 years ago, so on the bubble of what we're really talking about) but Dilfer was a probowl QB who played on a run first, defensive team. And yes, they won. But he's still better than any of the QBs on the Bills roster since Bledsoe left.

 

The Bucs won in 97, that's 13 years ago! 13!!! The game has changed. Which is my point. But, still, the Bucs had Johnson -- another probowl, franchise type QB.

bucs won in 2002 boss, and brad johnson was never mistaken as a franchise qb, neither was dilfer for that matter.

 

as for MPL: the ravens had ogden, and no other names to speak of, the bucs had a decent line INCLUDING CORNELL GREEN.

[MaineMoxie]

Dude is one FAST mofo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFcecMcS6bA

 

Yeah. I don't know about all these other dudes in this thread, but I just don't get tired of watching Spiller run. That one play against BC where he caught a pass near sidelines, surrounded by BC players, and somehow deked his way out for a TD was just unreal.

[mpl6876]

bucs won in 2002 boss, and brad johnson was never mistaken as a franchise qb, neither was dilfer for that matter

 

Bill what about their offensive lines?

[mpl6876]

Yeah. I don't know about all these other dudes in this thread, but I just don't get tired of watching Spiller run. That one play against BC where he caught a pass near sidelines, surrounded by BC players, and somehow deked his way out for a TD was just unreal.

 

Can he make the next move and do it in the NFL. I would say that Reggie Bush hasn't really lived up to his billing coming out of college. Not sure if that's a valid comparison but it seems fitting.