Lack of OT's May Kill BILLS Again!

[Doc]

Come on, if the defense was so horrible, how come three teams using it have made the Super Bowl, and two have won it?

 

You can use empirical sense or you can look at the data, which shows that the Bills for three years have lost far more people to injuries than those other Cover Two teams.

 

I'm not arguing that the Bears defense has been special the past few years. They haven't had the personnel. The year they did, they were excellent and made the Super Bowl. But that's beside the point. All I said was that the Cover Two was NOT the reason we had so many injuries, because those other teams had the same defense and far fewer injuries. We led the league in guys on IR two out of the last three years and were close in the third year too.

Well, if the Tampa 2 is so great, why are only 2 teams now using it? And I never said the Tampa 2 was so horrible. But it's not an easy defense to find players for and have success, and it's been more or less figured-out, hence the almost total abandonment of it.

Up and down means you're not NFL-ready by your argument? Well then, I guess Willie Colon isn't NFL-ready.

 

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?...p;playerid=3076

 

And Damian Woody ... not NFL-ready.

 

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?...mp;playerid=451

 

Jared Gaither, who got a negative in the playoff game, must not be NFL-ready.

 

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?...p;playerid=4279

 

D'Brickashaw Ferguson, not NFL-ready.

 

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?...p;playerid=2949

 

And these are the absolute best in the league. Everybody goes up and down, with the exceptions being ONLY Joe Thomas and Jake Long. Sorry, but going up and down doesn't make you not NFL-ready. Limiting the downs to small numbers and limiting the downs to a small percentage of games is what makes you not just NFL-ready but damn good. And after the first two games, Monroe's season looked much like D'Brick's and the others. Not quite as good, but damn close.

 

Look, I want to get this down on record for everyone to see ... are you seriously saying that Eugene Monroe and Vollmer were not NFL-ready? Is that seriously what you're saying?

The bottom line is I'll need to see more before I make a determination on how how NFL ready Monroe and Vollmer were/are. Meredith had a good game at LT in the season finale last year, yet you don't consider him "NFL ready at LT."

Here's what you said first:

 

That was your entire post. Nothing was edited out.

 

There was nothing there about all these other qualifiers. You're changing your argument.

 

Now all of a sudden, certain things don't count. So what you're doing is backing down off your first position.

I've been saying all along that players selected before the Bills' turn in the 1st came up don't count, especially if they were more than a pick or two away. You might as well lament over them missing out on Williams and Okung. And last year, the plan was to go with Walker and Butler at the OT spots. Now if you want to talk about the Bills taking Maybin over Orakpo, I'd have no argument.

[Bob in STL]

No one knows how those 2 OT's, Bulaga and Anthony Davis, will fare. At the same time, rebuilding teams do not have the luxury of taking BPA as Buffalo did with Spiller. If Bell, Meredith, and Green are yielding sacks and taking bad penalties, Nix is going to take a lot of heat for not having addressed the OT position. That, and the interior OL depth is full of inexperienced types.

 

 

While I agree that nix should have done more to address OT, I am happy he picked Spliier over Bulaga and Davis.

 

Would have liked to see us trade or pick up another veteran at OT.

[BillsVet]

While I agree that nix should have done more to address OT, I am happy he picked Spliier or Bulaga and Davis.

 

Would have liked to see us trade or pick up another veteran at OT.

 

Some GM's don't make a lot of trades during the draft. So I'm not going to hammer Chix for not having done so. Top-10 picks aren't easy to trade for considering the ridiculous guaranteed money they stand to receive.

 

That said, LT and RT play make a big difference on game day, although the fantasy fans here won't admit/realize it. For all the money Buffalo saved in trading Peters and considering Wood and S. Nelson (who I both like) the replaceability factor is killing them after the fact. I think Bell is not NFL material, and Meredith is a RT candidate only. I think Buffalo can't afford to give either much more time to develop.

[Bob in STL]

Some GM's don't make a lot of trades during the draft. So I'm not going to hammer Chix for not having done so. Top-10 picks aren't easy to trade for considering the ridiculous guaranteed money they stand to receive.

 

That said, LT and RT play make a big difference on game day, although the fantasy fans here won't admit/realize it. For all the money Buffalo saved in trading Peters and considering Wood and S. Nelson (who I both like) the replaceability factor is killing them after the fact. I think Bell is not NFL material, and Meredith is a RT candidate only. I think Buffalo can't afford to give either much more time to develop.

 

While Meredith may look more like a RT he may end up the LT on our line. At least for this year.

 

I am really worried about Bell as the LT and Wang as the backup.

 

I sure hope I am missing something about Bell that Jauron, Gailey and Nix all seem to see. They know more than I do.

 

Let the games begin.

[mpl6876]

Some GM's don't make a lot of trades during the draft. So I'm not going to hammer Chix for not having done so. Top-10 picks aren't easy to trade for considering the ridiculous guaranteed money they stand to receive.

 

That said, LT and RT play make a big difference on game day, although the fantasy fans here won't admit/realize it. For all the money Buffalo saved in trading Peters and considering Wood and S. Nelson (who I both like) the replaceability factor is killing them after the fact. I think Bell is not NFL material, and Meredith is a RT candidate only. I think Buffalo can't afford to give either much more time to develop.

 

Great line!

[Hossage]

I'm a troll!

 

Yeah, we know.

[mpl6876]

Yeah, we know.

 

By far the rudest person here. maybe that is something you are proud of.

[Malazan]

By far the rudest person here. maybe that is something you are proud of.

 

I don't know. It's pretty close between the two of you.

[mpl6876]

I don't know. It's pretty close between the two of you.

 

I would like to think that isn't true. At first, I was pretty rude and I deserved a "tongue lashing." Boy, did I get it good. However, I believe I have vastly improved my behavior and for the most part have been very civil. I still am opinionated and say unpopular things. Perhaps, I am in the minority. However, the unprofessionalism has stopped. As a matter of fact, you have been rude to me. See below.

 

QUOTE (jeremy2020 @ Jul 30 2010, 12:52 AM)

mpl, see a psychiatrist. For you own health.

 

My response to you:

If I recall correctly your last post to me was rude and uncalled for. Yet, I was very civil with you.

 

QUOTE (jeremy2020 @ Jul 23 2010, 10:47 AM)

Here's what you fail to understand, MPL, that is what your empty, shallow shell of of an existence is left with...most people have a lot of other things going on and love the Bills regardless.

 

Also, most people understand that some situations can be addressed right now with a band aid, or you can wait until you can address the problem properly. The Bills have previously tried the method of finding a 'right now' fix and it doesn't work.

 

The best teams stick to their philosophy and don't flail their arms about. I understand that your emotional problems lead you to believe the only way a problem get resolved is to flail wildly for 'something' to happen. Something could happen, but then you're left with a band aid on a gaping wound and everyone sitting applauding like jack*sses that a good move was made and the problem is solved. Then the band aid fails to be the solution and the wound is now infected.

 

My response back to you:

 

Jeremy, your personal attacks are unwarranted and uncalled for. However, I don't take them personally.

 

Your post makes little sense with the exception of "bashing" me. I am not here to get into a pissing contest with you or anyone else.

 

I stand by my original post 100%.

 

Hope you have a nice day. No hard feelings here.

[Thurman#1]

So do predictions, which is why I said we'll need to wait and see. And the poster to whom I was responding said that Matthews got 10 sacks as a rookie, and his college career wasn't even close to Maybin's final season.

 

 

 

The poster you were responding to was me. Check post #44 and then post #62.. And I simply didn't say anything about Matthews in that post.

 

When you said that, you had replied to two of my posts and were responding to them one at a time. There was nothing about Matthews. Nothing.

[Thurman#1]

As for Meredith, we'll have to see how he does before we call him a psycho chick.

 

 

 

I didn't "call him a psycho chick." You're either misunderstanding me or being intellectually dishonest.

 

I compared him in this way, that having Meredith as the #1 LT this year over Bell is about as inviting an improvement as stepping up from dating one psych chick to dating another who is a bit less psycho.

[Thurman#1]

I've been saying all along that players selected before the Bills' turn in the 1st came up don't count, especially if they were more than a pick or two away. You might as well lament over them missing out on Williams and Okung. And last year, the plan was to go with Walker and Butler at the OT spots. Now if you want to talk about the Bills taking Maybin over Orakpo, I'd have no argument.

 

 

Let's follow this argument through from the beginning. Here's what you said first:

 

Who out of the last 2 drafts has proven to be an "NFL-ready LT?"

 

 

That was your entire post. Nothing was edited out. It was your first post in the thread.

 

 

I took your challenge and answered with a bunch of players who were NFL-ready LTs, pointing out that asking for people who have proved themselves NFL-ready from the 2010 draft was intellectually unfair, since none of them have had a chance to prove themselves yet.

 

You then said "And they were top-8 picks, which was before the Bills drafted. " (Post 61)

 

And I said "Your challenge didn't say anything about where people were drafted." (Post 68)

 

 

You replied:

 

It's implied, Thurm. If the complaint is why the Bills haven't addressed the LT spot, things need to be put in context (similar to why I asked for the 2009 and 2010 drafts, since the Bills still had Peters in 2008). OT's taken before the Bills picked in the 1st round don't count.

 

 

The thing is, with challenges, you don't get to "imply" anymore than you do with bets. If you want to make a challenge, make it. If someone steps up, you don't get to say "Oh, but I meant ..."

 

I again called your attention back to the wording of your challenge. You said:

 

 

I've been saying all along that players selected before the Bills' turn in the 1st came up don't count, especially if they were more than a pick or two away. You might as well lament over them missing out on Williams and Okung. And last year, the plan was to go with Walker and Butler at the OT spots. Now if you want to talk about the Bills taking Maybin over Orakpo, I'd have no argument.

 

No, you didn't say it all along. You didn't say it at all before or during your challenge.

 

And yeah, the plan was to go with Walker and Butler at the OT spots. It was a crappy, flawed plan from the beginning. But again, saying that is only a way to avoid dealing with the fact that you challenged us and I fulfilled your challenge.

 

Alright, I'm finished with this. You're simply not going to admit it. You say that you've "been saying all along" that ... yadda yadda yadda, but in fact, your first post said nothing whatsoever about that. It was a simple challenge:

 

Who out of the last 2 drafts has proven to be an "NFL-ready LT?"

 

That was your challenge, your complete first post of this thread. I took it and fulfilled it and you've been desperately trying not to admit it since. For future reference, the way to handle that would have been something like this ... "OK, yeah, you're right, but what I really meant was this ... and then making a new challenge which was closer to what you meant.

 

Clearly, though, at least right now, you're not capable of admitting something like this. Which is too bad.

[Thurman#1]

Well, if the Tampa 2 is so great, why are only 2 teams now using it? And I never said the Tampa 2 was so horrible. But it's not an easy defense to find players for and have success, and it's been more or less figured-out, hence the almost total abandonment of it.

 

 

 

You are so good at switching the point again and again and again. I'm not even going to bother answering what you wrote here, because this is your third chance to reply to what I said from the beginning and each time you keep missing the point. Let me put in in CAPS for you so you won't miss it again.

 

YOU SAID THAT THE TAMPA TWO "FAVORS SMALLER, QUICKER PLAYERS. WHO TEND TO GET INJURED AND/OR WORN-DOWN EASIER." I SAID HOW COME WE LED THE LEAGUE IN INJURIES BUT NONE OF THE OTHER TAMPA TWO TEAMS CAME EVEN CLOSE. Get it? Feel free to answer yet again as if I had said that the Tampa Two was the best in the world. I didn't. My point was about injuries, and I have pointed out the FACTS that the Bills were injured at much higher rates for three years straight than the other Tampa Two Teams. Check the IR.

 

 

 

 

Meredith had a good game at LT in the season finale last year, yet you don't consider him "NFL ready at LT."

 

 

So, Meredith had "a good game at LT in the season finale" against the Colts SECOND-TEAMERS, "yet don't consider him 'NFL ready at LT.'"

 

Yeah, imagine that. A whole one game against second-teamers and yet I don't think it proves him NFL ready at LT. Man, oh, man, am I unreasonable.

 

 

 

And finally, in response to this:

 

Look, I want to get this down on record for everyone to see ... are you seriously saying that Eugene Monroe and Vollmer were not NFL-ready? Is that seriously what you're saying?

 

... you say this:

 

The bottom line is I'll need to see more before I make a determination on how how NFL ready Monroe and Vollmer were/are.

 

 

 

 

Talk about twisting like a worm on a hook trying to defend a lost argument. I asked you once and for all if Monroe and Vollmer were NFL-ready, because it's extremely clear that they are and you have been trying to deny it without actually using the words. But your reply made even less sense than simply denying that they were NFL-ready.

 

You say you need to see more? To decide if they were NFL-ready? I have to admit, you cracked me up with that response. You can watch for the next twenty seasons and you will never find out more info about whether or not they were NFL-ready. The info about whether guys were NFL-ready comes in the first year. Not the second. Not the eighth. The first.

 

A lot of times here you make very reasonable arguments. But it's extremely clear from the fact that you're still trying to make this argument that you can't admit that you're wrong. It's put you in an impossible situation.

 

These two guys were NFL-ready, and everyone out there knows it, particularly about Vollmer. It's hard to imagine it being more obvious. Having you say this in public is all I need. Hilarious stuff.

 

My work here is done.

[Doc]

The poster you were responding to was me. Check post #44 and then post #62.. And I simply didn't say anything about Matthews in that post.

 

When you said that, you had replied to two of my posts and were responding to them one at a time. There was nothing about Matthews. Nothing.

My bad. I was thinking of another thread where the poster compared the Bills to the Packers and said, like you, that the Packers were better set-up for the switch. But I disagree with you both.

[mpl6876]

My bad. I was thinking of another thread where the poster compared the Bills to the Packers and said, like you, that the Packers were better set-up for the switch. But I disagree with you both.

 

That's the best you can do Doc? Very disappointing...

[Cereal]

Not to get in the way of the ....discussion..... above, but these few paragraphs from Chris Brown's practice notes Monday really startle me with respect to O-line depth:

 

Demetrius Bell was again used sparingly in 11-on-11 work in the evening practice after not participating in the morning session. Most of the time however, Jamon Meredith was practicing with the first unit on the blind side.

 

With Eric Wood getting the night practice off, Andre Ramsey was plugged in at right guard with the first unit.

 

The second offensive line from left to right looked like this on Monday night. Kirk Chambers, Nick Hennessey, Sean Allen, Jason Watkins, Kyle Calloway.

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-3...e0-b8dfda2641cb

 

People on here seem to be raving about the new strength and conditioning coach, but you're GOING to have injuries and if/when we do...... well, see the title of this thread.

[tennesseeboy]

We're rebuilding. Buddy can't say it, but he doesn't care about this year. If we still suck in 2012, then yeah, think about firing him.

You don't go about rebuilding by getting worse. We are worse than we were at the close of last season. worse in receivers, worse on the O-line in starters and depth and worse on defense. I don't see that as a good start.

[bills in va]

NOT TO BEAT A DEAD HORSE........BUT.

 

ED WANG GOES DOWN AND OUT FOR "AN EXTENDED AMOUNT OF TIME, MAYBE SURGERY!

 

Now with my original post I said Nix has not done enough. It appears that our tackles are getting manhandled in practice.

Now Wang goes down and may need surgery. My point will be validated as the worst takle situation in the NFL just got worse..if that's even possible.

 

Everyone on this board who disagreed with me and thought that we were fine with our OT's, be man enough to admit that you were wrong. We are in serious trouble-AGAIN regarding our OT situation and Nix has done nothing to better it.

 

I've never argued that Spiller has awesome potential, but it was still a luxury. the 49's got it right when they took 2 first round OLmen this year, we should have taken at least 1 first rounder. I thought we should have traded down and took an OT, got an extra pick and took another.

[Bob in STL]

NOT TO BEAT A DEAD HORSE........BUT.

 

ED WANG GOES DOWN AND OUT FOR "AN EXTENDED AMOUNT OF TIME, MAYBE SURGERY!

 

Now with my original post I said Nix has not done enough. It appears that our tackles are getting manhandled in practice.

Now Wang goes down and may need surgery. My point will be validated as the worst takle situation in the NFL just got worse..if that's even possible.

 

Everyone on this board who disagreed with me and thought that we were fine with our OT's, be man enough to admit that you were wrong. We are in serious trouble-AGAIN regarding our OT situation and Nix has done nothing to better it.

 

I've never argued that Spiller has awesome potential, but it was still a luxury. the 49's got it right when they took 2 first round OLmen this year, we should have taken at least 1 first rounder. I thought we should have traded down and took an OT, got an extra pick and took another.

 

The dead horse is still kicking.

 

Like I said before, how can anyone be comfortable with this group? Bell, Meredith, Green, Chambers and Wang. Yuck!

 

When I read reports that our DE's are dominating them in practice I worry.

 

Yes, Nix should have done more.

[Doc]

Let's follow this argument through from the beginning. Here's what you said first:

My argument required you to factor-in the Bills' situation, Thurm. I'm sorry if I was asking too much of you. For example, I asked you for "proven NFL ready LT's from the past 2 drafts," which was admittedly a loaded question since the rookies haven't proven themselves. You gave me LT's from the 2008 draft, when the Bills still had Peters on the roster.

 

As for players being picked before the Bills get a chance at them, your beef is that the Bills haven't addressed the LT spot. How can they address a spot with a player if that player is already gone? Now if you are saying that they should have traded up 4 spots for Monroe last year, much less higher for the Smiths (neither of whom played LT last year), that's a different argument entirely. And your claim that Monroe's last few games prove he was "NFL ready" is weak at best (and reminiscent of the "Butler and Incognito were the Bills' best OL based on 2-3 games of work), while again Vollmer received a ton of help (that's from watching him, not reading it off of pff). So at best you have 2 LT's in 2009 who showed they might be NFL ready, and one was taken 3 spots before the Bills first drafted, and we're still waiting on the 2010 rookies to prove themselves. The point being, I wouldn't exactly rail on the Bills for failing to address the LT position last year, or even this year, just yet.