Official Mad Men Season 4 thread

[bbb]

It even had a famous soap opera star as the announcer at the clio's.

 

Who was it? If it wasn't Susan Lucci, I'm sure I don't know the person.

[Peace]

Who was it? If it wasn't Susan Lucci, I'm sure I don't know the person.

 

My wife knew who it was from her teenage soap watching days. Some actor from Days of Our Lives. "Victor," a bad guy. Probably has had to act out having amnesia at least 5 times.

[Buftex]

Actually, Jason Whitlock tweeted that theory a a week or two ago (and said all credit goes to his buddy who came up with a month or so ago).......It does seem to make sense.

I really liked this episode. It seemed unrealistic to me for the first three seasons that there could be such much heavy and hard drinking and no consequences.........Now, you're seeing blackouts and other realistic effects of hard hard drinking.

 

But, I did think the Roger Honda thing was way out of character. And, actually I was thinking that his humor does not seem as sharp as it did the first three seasons. (Well, except for when he was doing the Bob Newhart type phone call with the Lucky Strike guy and mentioned horse racing as an option for advertising. He gets an earfull and then says No, it's the jockey that is smoking)

 

 

Yes, I agree on that point. But, I just kind of thought this episode was not as subtle as the show normally is. I can't put my finger on it. I didn't hate everything about it, but for some reason, whenever they do "flashback" things, they never seem to work so well, for me. Don Draper/Dick Whitman just doesn't really seem to make any sense sometimes. I always thought it would be cool if they explored (or moreover explained) how clumsy farmboy, Dick Whitman, transformed himself into this sort of suave, daper, worldly guy...this episode touched on it, but still didn't explain anything. How would someone with Whitman's background discover, or realize that he has a knack for sophisticated advertising. How would Whitman develop this uncanny talent for tapping into the conscience of society?

 

As for the incest bit, my girlfriend first mentioned it, and the more we talked about it, it made sense. I didn't realize Jason Whitlock (the sports writer Jason Whitlock?) had tweeted it!! It just makes sense. Her anxiety attacks earlier in the series, the daughters fear and adoration of Gene, and then there was the obvious scene, last season, where the senile Gene came on to his daughter, mistaking her for his deceased wife...

[bbb]

Yes, I agree on that point. But, I just kind of thought this episode was not as subtle as the show normally is. I can't put my finger on it. I didn't hate everything about it, but for some reason, whenever they do "flashback" things, they never seem to work so well, for me. Don Draper/Dick Whitman just doesn't really seem to make any sense sometimes. I always thought it would be cool if they explored (or moreover explained) how clumsy farmboy, Dick Whitman, transformed himself into this sort of suave, daper, worldly guy...this episode touched on it, but still didn't explain anything. How would someone with Whitman's background discover, or realize that he has a knack for sophisticated advertising. How would Whitman develop this uncanny talent for tapping into the conscience of society?

 

As for the incest bit, my girlfriend first mentioned it, and the more we talked about it, it made sense. I didn't realize Jason Whitlock (the sports writer Jason Whitlock?) had tweeted it!! It just makes sense. Her anxiety attacks earlier in the series, the daughters fear and adoration of Gene, and then there was the obvious scene, last season, where the senile Gene came on to his daughter, mistaking her for his deceased wife...

 

Yup, that Jason Whitlock. He's buddies with Bill Simmons and they both are big fans (and for my money, the two most interesting reads in sports right now - although Simmons should edit down his columns). I totally forgot about Gene coming onto Betty when thinking about this. The whole thing does seem to be adding up to that (but I have to you guys credit - it never even entered my mind.)

 

To me, the how did farmboy "soft" Dick Whitman turn into Don Draper, playboy genius, is the question of the series. Logically, it makes no sense at all. But, I actually love the flashbacks myself because getting the history of the characters really makes the show for me. They've answered a lot of questions like that so far, and I have to think they are going to show how Dick turned into Don (and not just in name) and how he landed Betty, as well.

[Buftex]

Wow...great episode tonight. Don and Peggy have a very interesting relationship. Fantastic acting all the way around. Don Drapers descent takes another tumble...

[HopsGuy]

Wow...great episode tonight. Don and Peggy have a very interesting relationship. Fantastic acting all the way around. Don Drapers descent takes another tumble...

 

Wondering if this is supposed to represent "rock bottom" for Don. Anna passes, so now he's opening up a bit about his past to Peggy. He tries to punch out Duck but misses badly and then ends up saying "uncle". That's the parallel with the Clay-Liston fight (sort of). He avoided going out with Roger, but still ended up puking & crashing on his couch. I know he probably still has the potential for further decent, but the guy really needs a break.

 

For once, Roger didn't get the line of the episode. I say it's a tie between Trudy saying she wants "a rare steak and see those two men pound each other" and Mrs. Blankenship's racist remark.

 

The scene where the receptionist is impressed how far Peggy has gone at just 26 makes Peggy feel good for about 30 seconds before Trudy says that 26 is still young knocks her back down. Peggy needs something good to happen for her, too.

 

The revelation that Roger once had an affair with Mrs. Blankenship and Bert's lack of cajones make it quite an episode despite nothing about Betty & the kids or much else going on in the office. Talked about Freddy, but we didn't even see him.

[Buftex]

Wondering if this is supposed to represent "rock bottom" for Don. Anna passes, so now he's opening up a bit about his past to Peggy. He tries to punch out Duck but misses badly and then ends up saying "uncle". That's the parallel with the Clay-Liston fight (sort of). He avoided going out with Roger, but still ended up puking & crashing on his couch. I know he probably still has the potential for further decent, but the guy really needs a break.

 

For once, Roger didn't get the line of the episode. I say it's a tie between Trudy saying she wants "a rare steak and see those two men pound each other" and Mrs. Blankenship's racist remark.

 

The scene where the receptionist is impressed how far Peggy has gone at just 26 makes Peggy feel good for about 30 seconds before Trudy says that 26 is still young knocks her back down. Peggy needs something good to happen for her, too.

 

The revelation that Roger once had an affair with Mrs. Blankenship and Bert's lack of cajones make it quite an episode despite nothing about Betty & the kids or much else going on in the office. Talked about Freddy, but we didn't even see him.

 

I think this episode was really, solely, to explore the unique relationship that Don and Peggy have. Draper said it very early on in the series, that he saw a lot of himself in Peggy. When Draper was still Dick Whitman, he was a yoakal, who had fallen off the turnip truck, and he lied and badgered his way into the life he has now...a life that others seem to envy, for its' surface lustre. Peggy is smart, like Don/Dick, and has good instincts, but, she is still naive, and a lot more honest.

 

If you are a big fan of The Sopranos, you can definitely see the story telling influence it has on Mad Men. This was one of those "bottle shows" where it seems like it is hopping along, but then just stays with one thing for the bulk of the episode. In this case, it was Don/Peggy. I am glad they didn't have them consumate anything...that would have ruined it. Lesser shows, I think, wouldn't have been able to resist the temptation.

 

As for Betty and family, I really don't see how they can really work her back into the story all that much, unless it revolves around issues with the children. Matt Weiner said, in all the pre-season hoopla, that the show tries to reflect real life, as much as possible, and, just as in real life, people come and go. He warned that people might be disappointed that they might not see much of their favorite characters, because the palat of the show had changed. At the time, it seemed like he was talking about the extraneous characters from the office...but maybe it was Betty... I can't see any realistic way that she ends up reuniting with Don.

 

Anyways, great episode. I love the show "Breaking Bad" as well, and I can't argue with Bryan Cranston winning the Emmy for best actor, but Jon Hamm does excellent work too. I didn't see it, but I heard that Hamm seemed visibly annoyed during the Emmy's when he lost out to Cranston, again.

[HopsGuy]

I think this episode was really, solely, to explore the unique relationship that Don and Peggy have. Draper said it very early on in the series, that he saw a lot of himself in Peggy. When Draper was still Dick Whitman, he was a yoakal, who had fallen off the turnip truck, and he lied and badgered his way into the life he has now...a life that others seem to envy, for its' surface lustre. Peggy is smart, like Don/Dick, and has good instincts, but, she is still naive, and a lot more honest.

 

If you are a big fan of The Sopranos, you can definitely see the story telling influence it has on Mad Men. This was one of those "bottle shows" where it seems like it is hopping along, but then just stays with one thing for the bulk of the episode. In this case, it was Don/Peggy. I am glad they didn't have them consumate anything...that would have ruined it. Lesser shows, I think, wouldn't have been able to resist the temptation.

 

As for Betty and family, I really don't see how they can really work her back into the story all that much, unless it revolves around issues with the children. Matt Weiner said, in all the pre-season hoopla, that the show tries to reflect real life, as much as possible, and, just as in real life, people come and go. He warned that people might be disappointed that they might not see much of their favorite characters, because the palat of the show had changed. At the time, it seemed like he was talking about the extraneous characters from the office...but maybe it was Betty... I can't see any realistic way that she ends up reuniting with Don.

 

Anyways, great episode. I love the show "Breaking Bad" as well, and I can't argue with Bryan Cranston winning the Emmy for best actor, but Jon Hamm does excellent work too. I didn't see it, but I heard that Hamm seemed visibly annoyed during the Emmy's when he lost out to Cranston, again.

 

Yup, I definitely see that "hey, life changes, people move on" feel that was on the Sopranos. I'm still a bit miffed that there was nothing between the red-haired tennis pro and Adrianna.

 

I still feel that we'll see some of Betty if only to further develop Sally. The actress that portrays Sally is so good, I'd think Weiner would be aching to explore that character. But you're right in that this was an episode to solidify that Don/Betty storyline.

 

Over the last few months I've dedicated my free time to catching up on some of these shows that have gotten such critical acclaim while I've been watching the Sabres/Phillies over the last few years. I'm up to speed on "Mad Men" and "Breaking Bad". Both are excellent in every way (acting, writing, cinematography, music, etc). Now I'm going through "Weeds". Weird with the parallels with "Breaking Bad" (normal people in the world of illegal drugs, DEA). I just started Season 3, so there's a long way to go. Next up: Dexter.

[KD in CA]

Fascinating episode. The Don-Peggy relationship is the cornerstone of the series and it was great to devote a whole episode to it.

 

I noticed a whole 'A Star is Born' type of comparison between the two of them as the setting gets into the meat of the 60s; Don is on the start of his downslope, still clinging to the old world ideas while he drinks himself to oblivion and embarrassment. He's wrong about Ali/Liston, he's wrong about Namath's appeal (the commercial Peggy and the guys acted out was terrific). Meanwhile, Peggy is the rising star who gets the new popular culture -- she has continued to break away from her mother's old world ways and is growing and evolving with the world around her. I see a future where Don is ever more reliant on Peggy to remain a top notch producer. It will be interesting to see which of them realizes it first.

 

Obviously Anna's death is a huge blow and pretty much completes the destruction of his old life. But both he and Peggy (she after the phone call, he the next morning holding her hand) seem to realize that she is the closest thing to Anna he has now.

 

And of course Don continues to realize how many enemies he's made along the way (Duck, Peggy's Mom, etc.).

[Buftex]

Yup, I definitely see that "hey, life changes, people move on" feel that was on the Sopranos. I'm still a bit miffed that there was nothing between the red-haired tennis pro and Adrianna.

 

I still feel that we'll see some of Betty if only to further develop Sally. The actress that portrays Sally is so good, I'd think Weiner would be aching to explore that character. But you're right in that this was an episode to solidify that Don/Betty storyline.

 

Over the last few months I've dedicated my free time to catching up on some of these shows that have gotten such critical acclaim while I've been watching the Sabres/Phillies over the last few years. I'm up to speed on "Mad Men" and "Breaking Bad". Both are excellent in every way (acting, writing, cinematography, music, etc). Now I'm going through "Weeds". Weird with the parallels with "Breaking Bad" (normal people in the world of illegal drugs, DEA). I just started Season 3, so there's a long way to go. Next up: Dexter.

 

Well, Weeds is an uneven show, but I have to tell you, a lot of people I know, who watched it, gave up during the 5th season. I thought the 5th season was the show's best, personally. It gets very dark. If they could just get rid of Kevin Nealon and Elizabeth Perkins characters/storylines, I would like it even more. I think it is kind of a "crime" that Mary Louis Parker hasn't even been nominated for her work on Weeds. She is not only a complete babe, in a real kind of way, but she is perfect in that role. I have always liked her more than the movies she has been in.

 

As for "Dexter", I do like it, but not as much as I used to. I still watch, but, I tend to like things that, while unusual or "crazy", I could actually fathom happening. "Dexter" is a little too comic-booky for my usual taste, but I do like it. I loved the first and second seasons...but I don't find myself getting as jazzed about it as I used to.

 

If you want some good comedy (and there are only 6 half hour episodes) you should also watch HBO's "Eastbound and Down"...not normally my kind of thing, but the acting, and characters are awesome. I laugh my ass off for about 26 minutes straight whenever I watch it.

Edited September 7, 2010 by Buftex

[Peace]

I second the Weeds critique. I gave up a few seasons ago. It can't decide whether to be a comedy or a drama. It can do either one but when it tries to do both (always), it fails. Mary Louise Parker is pretty hot but her blank doe-eyed/always harrowed look gets old.

[HopsGuy]

Well, Weeds is an uneven show, but I have to tell you, a lot of people I know, who watched it, gave up during the 5th season. I thought the 5th season was the show's best, personally. It gets very dark. If they could just get rid of Kevin Nealon and Elizabeth Perkins characters/storylines, I would like it even more. I think it is kind of a "crime" that Mary Louis Parker hasn't even been nominated for her work on Weeds. She is not only a complete babe, in a real kind of way, but she is perfect in that role. I have always liked her more than the movies she has been in.

 

As for "Dexter", I do like it, but not as much as I used to. I still watch, but, I tend to like things that, while unusual or "crazy", I could actually fathom happening. "Dexter" is a little too comic-booky for my usual taste, but I do like it. I loved the first and second seasons...but I don't find myself getting as jazzed about it as I used to.

 

If you want some good comedy (and there are only 6 half hour episodes) you should also watch HBO's "Eastbound and Down"...not normally my kind of thing, but the acting, and characters are awesome. I laugh my ass off for about 26 minutes straight whenever I watch it.

 

I really liked MLP's work on "The West Wing" but Sorkin's writing tends to elevate anyone's acting so you never really know how good the person is. (Where have you gone Janel Moloney?)

 

I've seen EB&D from the beginning. Danny McBride has somehow mastered the ability to personalize a boorish cartoon character. I'm looking forward to the season premiere in a few weeks. "Honey, I love you. I think you're a great girl, but you have clothes like a f&^king d(&%head."

 

We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion of Don Draper's smoking/drinking/womanizing.

[bbb]

We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion of Don Draper's smoking/drinking/womanizing.

 

I thought the episode was really excellent. I'm pretty fascinated by the drinking aspect of it.......As much as the episode was about Don and Peggy's relationship, I also thought it was about booze's relationship with Madison Avenue. There was a lot of hard drinking in the previous seasons, and as I've said, it seemed to mostly not have a downside.

 

Now, there seems to be different people at different places as problem drinkers, if not alcoholics. Duck is off the wagon, and circling the drain. Roger can't stand the thought of not drinking in his dinner meeting with the two AA guys. (I didn't quite follow that - not sure why he couldn't just drink and them not drink). But, he clearly needs to have alcohol and you can see how he and Don came together because of booze and it's their connection now.........And, Don isn't quite circling the drain, but he's getting close and it's clear that his drinking is more and more of a problem - blackouts, etc.

[HopsGuy]

This Week in Mad Men #7

 

I guess I'll need to go back and watch this again. This round-table discussion calls this episode among the top 3 in series history. Mike Wilbon said that it was the best piece of dramatic television he had ever seen. That's pretty glowing.

[bbb]

This Week in Mad Men #7

 

I guess I'll need to go back and watch this again. This round-table discussion calls this episode among the top 3 in series history. Mike Wilbon said that it was the best piece of dramatic television he had ever seen. That's pretty glowing.

 

I would say top three in series history for sure........I wouldn't go quite as far as Wilbon - my top ones are the 50th anniversary of St. Eligus on St. Elsewhere, where Edward Hermann plays the priest who founded the hospital, and the episodes of NYPD Blue after Sipowitz' son get killed, he falls off the wagon, etc.

[HopsGuy]

I would say top three in series history for sure........I wouldn't go quite as far as Wilbon - my top ones are the 50th anniversary of St. Eligus on St. Elsewhere, where Edward Hermann plays the priest who founded the hospital, and the episodes of NYPD Blue after Sipowitz' son get killed, he falls off the wagon, etc.

 

NYPD Blue always left me shaking my head about how much better it was than anything else on at the time. If I had to point to one episode that sticks with me, I'd say when Bobby Simone died. The flashes to the pigeon guy were memorable.

 

I make no secret of my admiration of all things Sorkin. The end of "The Two Cathedrals" is just about the best dramatic TV I can remember.

 

Bartlet in the National Cathedral

 

(You have to have seen the entire episode to get the context of the final 10 seconds)

 

Then there's the

. Edited September 10, 2010 by HopsGuy

[HopsGuy]

So Don is getting it together and cutting down on the booze. Bethany looks at Betty and thinks "Yeah, that's me." Don sees the same thing, so he sets his sights on Faye (after a nice cab ride). Henry sees the need to get Draper out of his life, calls Don who thinks the same thing and the boxes end up in the dumpster. Don is morphing back into Dick.

 

Peggy is joining the women's liberation movement (in her own way). Joan sees her power waning as she loses control over both her marriage and the office.

 

And... the Rolling Stones make some more money in royalties (and there's no music over the closing credits).

 

Next week: the return of the Life girl.

[bbb]

I was a big West Wing fan, too, although I didn't watch it all the way to the end because it was just a little too slick-talking and left leaning for my taste. But, no doubt it was super high quality, and I remember that Two Cathedrals episode well. It was great to see that again.

 

I'm very interested in seeing how Don's cutting down on the drinking is going to go. I think it's the first time I've seen him drink beer, instead of the hard stuff.

 

I thought that that Satisfaction scene was very cool! (And, didn't understand the no music at the end).

 

Henry seems like more of a dick than I thought, but I guess if you start off by coming onto somebody's pregnant wife, you've already set the groundwork for that.

[ofiba]

Bethany looks at Betty and thinks "Yeah, that's me."

 

I took that part a little differently. I thought up until that point she looked at Don as someone pretty pathetic. As soon as she saw Betty, she instantly thought more highly of him. It sort of reminded me of the Seinfeld episode where George carried around a picture of a beautiful girl and told girls she was his ex-girlfriend so they would be more attracted to him.

 

I could be wrong though.

[KD in CA]

So Don is getting it together and cutting down on the booze. Bethany looks at Betty and thinks "Yeah, that's me."

I was thinking the exact opposite....Betty was thinking "that's the fresh, young me." But despite her tantraum, there seems to be a little thaw in Betty.

 

 

Peggy is joining the women's liberation movement (in her own way). Joan sees her power waning as she loses control over both her marriage and the office.

Interesting as they portray the first strings of backlash against sexism and harassment.