Benefit of the doubt for Nix / Gailey

[Dr. K]

If you think that giving someone the benefit of the doubt means having unconditional support for every decision made and that you aren't giving someone the benefit of the doubt unless you think they will make the playoffs their first year, then you're right, I'm not giving them the benefit of that much doubt.

 

Again, say what you like. You're pretty clearly wrong from where I sit, but whatever.

 

 

Where did I say you had to give them unconditional support? Where did I say that you had to say they would make the playoffs?

 

In my understanding, giving someone the benefit of the doubt means that, in cases where there is ambiguity about which course of action or decision was the right one, you reserve judgment and let events sort out who was right.

 

In general I have respected your posts because you make reasonable arguments, and I still believe you could easily be right. But in this case you are creating a straw man version of me to knock down.

 

Enough. More than enough.

[Dr. K]

I can't speak for Thurm but I will speak for myself. I gave Nix and Gailey the benefit of the doubt. However, when they failed to adequately address the QB and OL positions , hired a running back coach as an OC , and a suspect DC they lost their credibility with me.

 

Okay, fine. You are no longer giving them the benefit of the doubt. You have made your judgment about them, and that judgment is that they screwed up. I have no problem with that, as long as you don't claim, as Thurman#1 did, that he was still giving them the benefit of the doubt.

 

I assume (it's been obvious from your posts for a long time already) that you won't be convinced they know what they are doing until the team starts winning, and does it consistently for a long time. That's a reasonable position.

 

You go into the season expecting 3 or 4 wins or something like that. Enjoy yourself.

[spartacus]

On to another point, you continually reference modkins and edwards as being bad selections for OC/DC. Specifically Modkins B/c he hasn't been an OC before. First of all, everybody has to start somewhere, and this is a good way to start, think of him as the asst oc/RB specialist.

 

so again, who would you have liked to see brought in?

 

Gailey would have been a good hire as the OC-

 

 

under a real HC>

 

Pretty ironic that a team without a OC in 2009 did not think Gailey was good enough to replace Turk at the last minute - but now he's a genius.

 

Tough to be a genius when you don't think you need OTs to run an offense.

[mpl6876]

so 8 games for bell and 4-5 for meredith in last yrs offense, with all those bums surrounding them is enough tape? No, I don't think so, also, you keep saying these guys aren't talented, I don't buy that for a second,. Green yes, but not untalented.

 

so, you don't like who we have, question, who did you want?

Unacceptable answers include, Gaither, Flozelll and Mcneill.

 

On to another point, you continually reference modkins and edwards as being bad selections for OC/DC. Specifically Modkins B/c he hasn't been an OC before. First of all, everybody has to start somewhere, and this is a good way to start, think of him as the asst oc/RB specialist.

 

so again, who would you have liked to see brought in?

 

as far as my argument being weak, well, to each his own, I tend to think its more just the honest truth. I fail to see the point in cleaning house only to realize you threw away several turd covered diamonds. And I bet Chan is thinking along those lines too.

 

Bill, I would like to disagree to disagree. I am trying not to force my opinion on others. Neither one of us are going to sway in our viewpoints. I hope you are truly right.

[Dan]

I have mixed feelings when talking badly about Ralph. He is a pioneer owner going back to the old AFL days. He has done a lot of good for Buffalo. I think he has a great chance to go into the hall of fame. However, it is time for Ralph to pass the reins. He is too old and no longer able to make sound decisions. It reminds me of the Lions and old man Ford. Now, his son or grandson has taken over and the Lions seem to be on the right track. But old man Ford stuck with the incompetent Matt Millin and he set that franchise back years and years.

 

Ralph it is time to hand over the reins. Question is who? and will they remain in Buffalo?

No way Ralph ever makes the HOF. He's too old and the Bills are too bad. If he hasn't made it by now, he never will.

 

[BillsPhan]

...Cowher was a good coach, but he was also with the Steelers for at least 15 years and won only 1 superbowl....

 

That's why people (including me) were hoping for Cowher to accept the Bills' challange as GM, coach or even both. He won a SB recently with the Steelers (2005), and I don't remember very many seasons of those 15 or so you bring up he was HC with the Steelers, where they did not finish at least 9-7-0, and they usually made the playoffs.

 

Come on now, I'm not saying I was "kneeling down and praying" that Cowher would come to Buffalo, but you cannot expect me to believe that you would not be more excited about the Buffalo Bills a week before training camp, if he was our HC or GM or both right now, as opposed to Buddy Nix - GM, and Chan Gailey - HC instead.

[Doc]

I think what is lost on people who don't understand the pessimism about the new hirings is the simple fact that when you repeatedly hire people who have not been successful you are very likely to get consistently poor results. Nix and Gailey have not been successful in their current positions.

Well for starters, Nix has never been a GM before. But he was a successful AGM. And Gailey was a successful HC, having a winning record and making the playoffs both seasons. That's what gives people more hope than other hires in the past decade.

[sllib olaffub]

Just listening to them, and seeing what they've done in the past - and, they've had success - tells me that they could be successful here. I don't doubt their capabilities. In fact, I really like them both in their capacity. What bothers me and keeps me from unbridled optimism, keeps me guarded and "realistic", is the feeling that they are working with a handicap, that Wilson has not given them "every means" necessary to win. I mean, as a team and as fans we've seen nothing but lousy football for a decade. We've been rebuilding for ten years. I don't want to hear we'll only go after mid-range free agents and build through the draft, as was cited on BuffaloBills.com by Chris Brown. Seriously, when I read that my stomach churned. There's a real difference between Ralph missing on coaches over the last decade, and Ralph not willing to do whatever he needs to do to win. There's a difference between Cowher not coming to Buffalo because he didn't like the situation, and him not coming here because he wasn't offered enough. Frankly, I'd of had enough of the Wilson lead Bills if he's telling Nix and Gailey they've got to work miracles, because he's only going to give them so much. I mean, if it were purely a philosophical preference with building through the draft, and with not going after older, expensive F.A.'s, so that younger guys can be molded into stars, then I'm good with that - and, that's what I thought we were seeing out of Nix and Gailey. But, after reading that piece by Brown today, I thought I clearly saw written, between the lines, that Wilson is not giving them an equal chance to succeed. And that sucks.

Still, I'm looking forward to seeing this team play because I think we've got a lot of talent that hasn't been evident these past few years due to mismanagement. I think we can compete this year for a wildcard - if our O-line holds up. But, I'm convinced that Gailey can find out the truth about his roster's talent this year, and if he's got to get a franchise QB, then next year's draft will have one. If he also needs a LT, and maybe a DE, WR, and LB, to really make this unit solid, then I think he can make that happen in one offseason - next year's - if Wilson allows them the money to do it. That's only five starters. You figure you should be able to get starters in the first three rounds of the draft, and add another two or three F.A.'s.

I don't think that's too much to ask as a Bills fan, considering where we've been for the last decade, and considering we might not even have a Buffalo Bills here in a few years when the lease expires. It's pretty simple to me - either Ralph thinks the fans are a bunch of suckers, or he really will give it a shot before he's gone - and really, what the *%$#)O does he have to lose? What's he waiting for?

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

Gailey would have been a good hire as the OC-

 

 

under a real HC>

 

Pretty ironic that a team without a OC in 2009 did not think Gailey was good enough to replace Turk at the last minute - but now he's a genius.

 

Tough to be a genius when you don't think you need OTs to run an offense.

even on a wildly dysfunctional FO like the Bills, you'd have to admit that the GM, with heavy input from Ralph, basically makes the HC decision, and others get to weigh in on it...

 

Buddy Nix is now large and in charge; he obviously thought Gailey was the best man for the job this year, and he sold it to Ralph.

 

you can do better than that..

[Green Lightning]

You may be right about this plan.

 

I disagree with "defense this year, offense next year," though. Our first, fourth, fifth and our two seventh-round picks were on the offense. That's five out of nine, including the first-rounder. We split our picks reasonably evenly. We went offense, we just didn't manage to address our two biggest needs there.

 

And while I love most of this plan, in the long term, I really do question the "we need to see these guys for a year before we judge them" thing that Chan and Buddy seem to be doing in the OL and QB. How come other new coaches manage to figure out what they have by looking at film of last year?

 

I also have a problem with getting excited about having a 1,000 yard rusher. It means nothing these days. There were 15 of them in the league last year and there were probably 10 - 15 more guys who would have been there if they'd been given enough carries: Turner, Marion Barber, Jerome Harrison, Pierre Thomas, Beanie Wells, Ahmad Bradshaw, Ronnie Brown, Correll Buckhalter, LeSean McCoy, Justin Forsett, Snelling, Hightower, Michael Bush, McGahee, much as I hate him I have to admit this, Shonn Green, and the list goes on and on. Over 16 game season,s, you only have to average 62.5 yards per game. This is just not difficult, not even slightly. It's just a matter of giving most guys enough carries.

 

 

Reasonable argument but I agree with Carolina Bill. The guys on our OL roster need a year under a real coach and the same cast of characters from week to week before they can be fairly evaluated. I said defense this year because it's true the draft was about equal between Off & Def, we went Def in the critical 2nd & 3rd rounds. So no OT and QB but NT & DE. I think that changes the other way next draft.

[Skoobydum]

Reasonable argument but I agree with Carolina Bill. The guys on our OL roster need a year under a real coach and the same cast of characters from week to week before they can be fairly evaluated. I said defense this year because it's true the draft was about equal between Off & Def, we went Def in the critical 2nd & 3rd rounds. So no OT and QB but NT & DE. I think that changes the other way next draft.

 

Did you see that fundamentalist article?? Chan deserves the benefit of the doubt, no doubt.

[Green Lightning]

Did you see that fundamentalist article?? Chan deserves the benefit of the doubt, no doubt.

 

 

I did. Loved the last line....his job is to win. Let's go Bills!

[Skoobydum]

I did. Loved the last line....his job is to win. Let's go Bills!

 

Our last coach's job wasn't to lose by too much.