BillsPhan Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 If you are a Bills fan , regardless of your present address, write or e-mail your representatives in congress, write your President. Tell them the Bills need a new stadium in western N.Y. Come on , why not. The old War Memorial stadium was built as part of the "new deal" WPA projects of Roosevelt in 1937. Our current President should be proud to mirror the economic recovery act plans of such a progressive leader. Scary thought.....the Bills stadium in OP is now older than the old War memorial "Rockpile" was when the Bills left it in 1973....... You're only about 17 years late for this thread. Back in '93, Ralph Wilson made his demands known that his Bills would need either a brand new stadium or at the very least, a completely new re-furbished stadium inside the shell of Rich. The original 25 year lease was coming up 5 years later in '98, and Wilson was ready to enlist our millions of letters to our congressmen then, as he lobbied for his new stadium. As we all know, he got the re-furbished stadium inside the shell of Rich Stadium, for the extremely reasonable price of around 160 Million dollars, and they had it ready for the 1998 season. Today, 160 Million would build you about half of a modern football stadium, complete with today's amenities and technology. So not only will we never get the 300 million+ dollars to build a good modern stadium from congress, but the current owner, Ralph Wilson, could not care less about a new stadium any more. Our only hope as Buffalo Bills fans, is for that mystery Jim Kelly-led ownership group to purchase the team from Wilsons' heirs when he dies, and to then start new negotiations with the local, county, state and federal officials to build the new stadium, complete with their own investment they would be willing to cover in order to get the funding needed.
dollars 2 donuts Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 insolent, perhaps? thx, moby, i knew there was a good chance i had spelled it wrong but i was in hurry. You know, running for Lord and Master.
KRT88 Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 If you are a Bills fan , regardless of your present address, write or e-mail your representatives in congress, write your President. Tell them the Bills need a new stadium in western N.Y. Come on , why not. The old War Memorial stadium was built as part of the "new deal" WPA projects of Roosevelt in 1937. Our current President should be proud to mirror the economic recovery act plans of such a progressive leader. Scary thought.....the Bills stadium in OP is now older than the old War memorial "Rockpile" was when the Bills left it in 1973....... why do we need a new stadium? sure its old but it's paid for. It has plenty of ammenitites, luxury suites, theater, club seats, lots of parking, quality practice area, I just don't see why a new one is needed! What new revenue would be added by spending 400-500 million if not more?
KRT88 Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 I say we should be a new stadium right over the Niagara Gorge just beyond the Rainbow bridge. The open end of the stadium could face the falls. What an incredible view. Who cares about the environmental impact or the engineering nightmare of designing a stadium sitting on top of a 200+ foot deep gorge. Just span a few steel beams across the chasm and build on top of that! Come on, the cost would only be 1 - 1.5 billion. We can make the Canadians pay for half the stadium too, since about half would be on their side of the border!
JohnC Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 insolent, perhaps? He wanted to be insulated from the insolent comments.
dollars 2 donuts Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 He wanted to be insulated from the insolent comments. AND it could have been worse, I could have said "insulin" tone. Cutting to the chase of this thread, though, of course i want the Bills to stay, but this is a catch 22, or for those of us that have seen Swingers "there's the rub in the fact that do you build a 9 figure stadium: That burdens the tax payers during hard times, or not build it, and give the new owner a damn good reason to move the team, above beyond the debt that he'll now have in paying on the financing of his purchase. Bagel speculated earlier that any purchase of the Bills, other than by a multi-billionaire, would involve 2/3 debt coverage. In other words, if someone is buying this team they are going to be getting about 500-600 million from someplace other than their own piggy bank. WARNING: I AM NO BANKING EXPERT, BUT I AM GOING TO UNBELIEVABLY SIMPLIFY THIS SO BEFORE THOSE REALLY IN THE KNOW JUMP ALL OVER ME PLEASE KNOW I AM JUST TRYING TO KEEP SIMPLE...MY FIGURES COULD BE OFF, BUT I AM JUST MAKING IT EASY TO UNDERSTAND FOR A DEAL OF THIS SIZE...THAT BEING SAID $550,000,000 at 3% over 15 years means a debt payment of about 45.5 million dollars a year. If the gross figures this team comes in with is about 200 million dollars (I have no back-up, just based upon memory from recent articles and discussion, feel free to correct me) then 45.5 million is big chunk the new owner is paying. To potentially say to that new owner, "Hey, now that you bought the team why don't you help spring for a new stadium in an economically depressed area where you can make only so much.", is a little bit of a stretch. I believe if the new owner pays for half of a new $350 million stadium throw another 15 million a year onto my figure above.
Thoner7 Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 I have no argument that our government pisses away billions every year. But as far as the federal funding for Art Walk, here's their website you and your relatives can browse complete with maps and events and other pertinent info:http://www.rochesterartwalk.org/about_artwalk.html Maybe it's not worth 3.4 Mil, but the Art Walk project seems pretty good for Rochester, in my humble opinion. And I'm not even a liberal. If the Federal Government came to me, and said "We will give you 3.4 Mil to spend on the Rochester Art Walk, or one Genny light bottle, take your pick" My honest non hesitant answer would be THE GENNY LIGHT BOTTLE There is not a better example of waste closer to home for those in Rochester.
bowery4 Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 Just dome the Ralph, and up grade it a bit more. I know then the Bills won't have the so called weather advantages but it could be a multi-use facility this way. Niagara Falls doesn't have the roads to get to it. how about adding a decent network of roads to Ralph instead. This idea should keep debt down and make it more attractive to new owners. Erie county gets its fed money for good will and hopefully it sparks some growth. Let's wait 15 more years and see where the economy and NYS are in terms of taxes and economic health before we build a real new home. And Art should be everywhere, even Rochester.
stuckincincy Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 Just dome the Ralph, and up grade it a bit more. I know then the Bills won't have the so called weather advantages but it could be a multi-use facility this way.Niagara Falls doesn't have the roads to get to it. how about adding a decent network of roads to Ralph instead. This idea should keep debt down and make it more attractive to new owners. Erie county gets its fed money for good will and hopefully it sparks some growth. Let's wait 15 more years and see where the economy and NYS are in terms of taxes and economic health before we build a real new home. And Art should be everywhere, even Rochester. That's a good idea, if architecturally feasible. Be sure that the Bills agree to not control what goes on there when they don't play games before $ is spent. You've brought back a memory. I lived in the PGH area, and I recall interested parties - construction unions, the pols, the two teams crabbing about how it was in disrepair. The teams wanted more seating for the citizens to pay for. I'm not a structural expert, but I do have a reasonable eye. At the time I went to a lot of Pirate games. 3 Rivers Stadium was far from a decrepit hunk. It was a great BB stadium, with its' "in the round" seating. Fine for FB, too. They also had a great concession sales arrangement. You would pick up what you wanted from two lines starting at the extremes of the stand, then turned and paid one of the two cashiers, one per side. The sister stadium, Riverfront here in CIN, had you line up before 4 or so servers/cashiers.
Leonidas Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 Just dome the Ralph, and up grade it a bit more. I know then the Bills won't have the so called weather advantages but it could be a multi-use facility this way.Niagara Falls doesn't have the roads to get to it. how about adding a decent network of roads to Ralph instead. This idea should keep debt down and make it more attractive to new owners. Erie county gets its fed money for good will and hopefully it sparks some growth. Let's wait 15 more years and see where the economy and NYS are in terms of taxes and economic health before we build a real new home. That's actually the worst idea I've ever heard. There is no greater experience than watching a game at the Ralph in the snow.
The Dean Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 That's a good idea, if architecturally feasible. Be sure that the Bills agree to not control what goes on there when they don't play games before $ is spent. You've brought back a memory. I lived in the PGH area, and I recall interested parties - construction unions, the pols, the two teams crabbing about how it was in disrepair. The teams wanted more seating for the citizens to pay for. I'm not a structural expert, but I do have a reasonable eye. At the time I went to a lot of Pirate games. 3 Rivers Stadium was far from a decrepit hunk. It was a great BB stadium, with its' "in the round" seating. Fine for FB, too. They also had a great concession sales arrangement. You would pick up what you wanted from two lines starting at the extremes of the stand, then turned and paid one of the two cashiers, one per side. The sister stadium, Riverfront here in CIN, had you line up before 4 or so servers/cashiers. Three Rivers may not have been a dump, but it was a soulless, cookie-cutter stadium. Forbes Field was a great place to watch baseball. Three Rivers was just a place.
JohnC Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 That's a good idea, if architecturally feasible. Be sure that the Bills agree to not control what goes on there when they don't play games before $ is spent. You've brought back a memory. I lived in the PGH area, and I recall interested parties - construction unions, the pols, the two teams crabbing about how it was in disrepair. The teams wanted more seating for the citizens to pay for. I'm not a structural expert, but I do have a reasonable eye. At the time I went to a lot of Pirate games. 3 Rivers Stadium was far from a decrepit hunk. It was a great BB stadium, with its' "in the round" seating. Fine for FB, too. They also had a great concession sales arrangement. You would pick up what you wanted from two lines starting at the extremes of the stand, then turned and paid one of the two cashiers, one per side. The sister stadium, Riverfront here in CIN, had you line up before 4 or so servers/cashiers. Dramatically upgrading the stadium certainly is feasible. It is presently being done in KC. Arrow Head stadium is going through a three year project which will result in it being a first class facility. Both our stadium and KC's stadium are very similar. The engineering company was the same for both stadiums. If you do some google research you can come up with pictures and articles on how it is paid for and its feasibility. The problem with our situatin is that our present owner has absolutely no interest in contributing to an upgrade in the facility he is playing in. There are ways to contend with the very challenging economics of the league. With some creativity and desire it can be worked out. It is not going to happen until there is a new owner. When you are 92 yrs old there isn't much incentive to invest in the long term future.
Mr. WEO Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 Dramatically upgrading the stadium certainly is feasible. It is presently being done in KC. Arrow Head stadium is going through a three year project which will result in it being a first class facility. Both our stadium and KC's stadium are very similar. The engineering company was the same for both stadiums. If you do some google research you can come up with pictures and articles on how it is paid for and its feasibility. The problem with our situatin is that our present owner has absolutely no interest in contributing to an upgrade in the facility he is playing in. There are ways to contend with the very challenging economics of the league. With some creativity and desire it can be worked out. It is not going to happen until there is a new owner. When you are 92 yrs old there isn't much incentive to invest in the long term future. Like green bananas.
yungmack Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 If you are a Bills fan , regardless of your present address, write or e-mail your representatives in congress, write your President. Tell them the Bills need a new stadium in western N.Y. Come on , why not. The old War Memorial stadium was built as part of the "new deal" WPA projects of Roosevelt in 1937. Our current President should be proud to mirror the economic recovery act plans of such a progressive leader. Scary thought.....the Bills stadium in OP is now older than the old War memorial "Rockpile" was when the Bills left it in 1973....... And Dodger Stadium is now the third oldest baseball stadium in the majors. And has been for sometime now. It opened about ten or so years before Rich/No Name/Ralph Wilson stadium.
JohnC Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 Like green bananas. We have an ownership bottleneck. Recently, as with the passing of Sen. Robert Byrd, there comes a point where the question must be asked: What is the point. Sen. Byrd was not only physically debilitated but there were clear signs that he was not even mentally lucid. A long time ago I met a very aged congressman from Florida, Claude Pepper, who was outright senile for an extended period of time while he was still a congressman. There was no way in which he could even fake performing his duties. Shortly thereafter, he passed. What is the point of hanging on for the sake of hanging on. Ralph has emphatically stated that he will own the Bills until he passes. The owner is near 92 yrs old. It is not surprising at this age he is frail both physically and mentally. It is obvious his organization can't keep up with his competitors under his stewardshp. Again, I ask: What is the point. No one is going to defeat or alter the life cycle. What is the point.
Sanners Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 AND it could have been worse, I could have said "insulin" tone. Cutting to the chase of this thread, though, of course i want the Bills to stay, but this is a catch 22, or for those of us that have seen Swingers "there's the rub in the fact that do you build a 9 figure stadium: That burdens the tax payers during hard times, or not build it, and give the new owner a damn good reason to move the team, above beyond the debt that he'll now have in paying on the financing of his purchase. Bagel speculated earlier that any purchase of the Bills, other than by a multi-billionaire, would involve 2/3 debt coverage. In other words, if someone is buying this team they are going to be getting about 500-600 million from someplace other than their own piggy bank. WARNING: I AM NO BANKING EXPERT, BUT I AM GOING TO UNBELIEVABLY SIMPLIFY THIS SO BEFORE THOSE REALLY IN THE KNOW JUMP ALL OVER ME PLEASE KNOW I AM JUST TRYING TO KEEP SIMPLE...MY FIGURES COULD BE OFF, BUT I AM JUST MAKING IT EASY TO UNDERSTAND FOR A DEAL OF THIS SIZE...THAT BEING SAID $550,000,000 at 3% over 15 years means a debt payment of about 45.5 million dollars a year. If the gross figures this team comes in with is about 200 million dollars (I have no back-up, just based upon memory from recent articles and discussion, feel free to correct me) then 45.5 million is big chunk the new owner is paying. To potentially say to that new owner, "Hey, now that you bought the team why don't you help spring for a new stadium in an economically depressed area where you can make only so much.", is a little bit of a stretch. I believe if the new owner pays for half of a new $350 million stadium throw another 15 million a year onto my figure above. Ummm, not sure we should call Erie county economically depressed. Buffalo yes. Erie county - no. Actually, I think this area is in much better shape now than in the late 80's to early 2000's. Granted Erie doesn't have the population, but when you include Rochester and Southern Ontario, that is a nice market of rabid Northeastern football fans. Hell, Houston just includes about 100 miles of Texas crap as their city. Been saying it for years, the Bills aren't going anywhere.
Dr. Trooth Posted July 24, 2010 Posted July 24, 2010 BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR!!!!! 1) Why a new stadium? What's wrong with the Ralph? 2) They have the lowest priced luxury suites in the NFL. Why would anyone want to pay double when the bills can't fill all of them now. Plus, all the wealthy folks that can afford it are moving out of state, and in the process, keeping $millions$ of the money that NYS would otherwise confiscate. 3) It's the cheapest ticket in the NFL... why would you want to pay double to sit in a heated chair with wifi? 4) WTF? New stadium = PSL... are you out of your f--ing mind? 5) What... you want the taxpayers to fund a new stadium??? WTF? I can't imagine anyone in this state that has a total tax burden of $10,000 (which might be average) or more that would appreciate paying more.
ChasBB Posted July 24, 2010 Posted July 24, 2010 Hey, the government is going to piss away millions of dollars one way or the other, and if they are going to piss it away, why not build the Bills a new stadium? Hell, it beats funding $ 23 million for abortion legislature in Kenya... http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/07/21...test=latestnews Or the "Art walk" in Rochester that recieved $3.84 million in federal funding... http://www.cityofrochester.gov/artwalkextension/ (As a 4th generation Rochestarian, with over 50 relatives currently living in the Rochester area, I have never once talked to a single person who has seen this so called art walk. Not one of my 50+ relatives have either. Im not even sure if it exists.) Lets be real, most of the employees are already on the payroll (unemployment) , but now we could actually have them work! The problem with this thinking is that we will pay for a new stadium *AND* abortion legislature in Kenya *AND* everything else that comes down the pike.
Recommended Posts