BEAST MODE BABY! Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 I f'ing hate Muslims. Just like they F'ing hate you and me, and Brohm, and Trentative, and Fitzy. I hope this is sarcasm?
Delete This Account Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 I hope this is sarcasm? it's not, from what i can gather. just completed a quick search of this nutjob's recent posts, and he/she is as racist as they (it?) come. it's mostly bile and hatred and ignorance spewing baloney. really sad and embarrassing to have someone like this posting this nonsense. some truly lack a sense of shame. jw
billsfreak Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 it's not, from what i can gather. just completed a quick search of this nutjob's recent posts, and he/she is as racist as they (it?) come. it's mostly bile and hatred and ignorance spewing baloney. really sad and embarrassing to have someone like this posting this nonsense.some truly lack a sense of shame. jw If you get emotional and type a four letter word for a turd (****)-see what I mean, it cancels it out and you get a warning message from TBD, but you can post the crap that this guy does without a worry?
The Dean Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 The only differences being that Kelly had another league to turn to, and even more important, the Bills had a FO with testicles and took him anyway, knowing they would hold all the chips if he ever wanted to play in the NFL, at least for 4 years. You missed the biggest difference, of course. Kelly was a FAR FAR better and more universally lauded prospect than Clausen. Generally, drafting a guy in the 2nd round who you aren't that sold on, and who really would rather not play for you, isn't a good idea.
show_me_the_baby Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 Jimmy is now like 3rd in line now yet he was a shame for the Bills to pass on twice?? Hmmm.... 3. Bills pass on Jimmy Clausen, twice Entering April's draft with the league's worst quarterback situation, the Bills had two chances to select pro-ready Jimmy Clausen. They passed both times, opting instead to bolster an already strong tailback corps with C.J. Spiller at No. 9, and taking raw nose tackle Torrell Troup 41st. New coach Chan Gailey plans to hold a three-way QB competition in camp consisting of injury-prone Trent Edwards, draft bust Brian Brohm, and noodle-armed journeyman Ryan Fitzpatrick. http://m.nbcsports.com/s/showPage.do?siteI...icleId=38349607 Look, as far as qbs go for this franchise I am not worried. Nix: Phillip Rivers and Drew Brees Gailey: Dynamic offenses even with mediocre QBs. We are set. May take a few years though.
Doc Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 I think the main thing is in the whole 9 vs 41 vs not at all debate -- as a coach and gm, any qb taken in the first two rounds you sink or swim with. If you believe in a qb, you take him at 9 even if hes rated lower, if you dont believe hes your franchise, you dont take him at 41 either, even if its value. A guy like Troupe wont be your own career on the line, a guy like claussen is.... so if you dont want to hitch your wagon to him, you just have to stay away unless he somehow falls to 3 or later (see edwards here, or mccoy in cleveland) and suddenly its not a make or break pick. Well stated.
Hplarrm Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 Jimmy is now like 3rd in line now yet he was a shame for the Bills to pass on twice?? Hmmm.... 3. Bills pass on Jimmy Clausen, twice Entering April's draft with the league's worst quarterback situation, the Bills had two chances to select pro-ready Jimmy Clausen. They passed both times, opting instead to bolster an already strong tailback corps with C.J. Spiller at No. 9, and taking raw nose tackle Torrell Troup 41st. New coach Chan Gailey plans to hold a three-way QB competition in camp consisting of injury-prone Trent Edwards, draft bust Brian Brohm, and noodle-armed journeyman Ryan Fitzpatrick. http://m.nbcsports.com/s/showPage.do?siteI...icleId=38349607 The thing I disagree with most in the Rotoworld argument is the statement that Clausen is "pro-ready". Correct me if I am wrong but the general thought from the pundits was that yes, Clausen is a game extraordinaire who is a proven producer playing for high level college teams. However, he did not go as high a Bradford or several other QBs, and in fact every team in the NFL passed on him twice specifically because the consensus judgment was that his delivery needed a bit of work to reach NFL standards for a franchise QB. He simply is not judged by everyone who matters (the 30+ teams which passed on him at least twice) as specifically not being pro-ready. One could try to make the case that in particular the Buffalo Bills given the talent deficit at QB would have maximized our profit by getting a talented QB and specifically one who is such a winner and gamer that he on his own could make the improvements quickly in his game to develop and adequate pro release. One could make that case, but it is hard to make a good one on this without ignoring the fact that he would be doing his practicing and learning behind a questionable OL, with a huge gap at #2 WR, and the advantages and disadvantages of new O being put in place. If I am Clausen I am a gamer and wherever they draft me I am gonna go there and do the best I can do. However, in my heart of hearts I am rooting for the Bills not to take me as if this is the challenge I am confronted with there is a better chance than other teams that this is gonna be a bad move for my career. I hope the Bills truly wish Clausen well and hope that he does well against every opponent he plays against besides the Bills. However. both the Bills and Clausen should be thankful they did not take him because our situation would have likely in my view been a disaster for both the team and for Clausen as the media and some fans forced him to chase the ghost of Jim Kelly.
JohnC Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 That is correct, time will tell. Personally I watched a couple of games and he looked robotic, a very well trained athlete but one that would have a hard time improvising when the initial script of plays don't work. Of course I could be dead wrong. His injury was more troublesome than most people were aware of. All week long he wore a boot to protect his foot. On game day the medical staff shot him up with painkillers. I'm sure his injury had something to do with his lack of fluidity.
Doc Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 I'll take "above average QBs" Flacco, Ryan, McNabb, Palmer... You can have the "greatest NT" in the league--whoever you feel that is (how can you tell?). Y Ah, so now you've changed it from from "great" to "greatest." Okay. Let's say someone like Ngata. Remember him? The guy you didn't want the Bills to draft in 2006? Flacco benefits from having Ngata on defense and having a great defense and running game. Ryan didn't look so good without his running game. They've both been in the league just 2 years, so whether they're "above average" is still largely unknown. And in Ryan's case, the Bills had no shot at him (the same with Palmer and McNabb, although they allegedly tried to trade for him and he said no). McNabb and Palmer I'd consider better than "above average," unless by "above average" you mean anything better than average, in which case Pro Bowl players would qualify. Are you saying that Clausen is "above average?"
Hplarrm Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 Ah, so now you've changed it from from "great" to "greatest." Okay. Let's say someone like Ngata. Remember him? The guy you didn't want the Bills to draft in 2006? Flacco benefits from having Ngata on defense and having a great defense and running game. Ryan didn't look so good without his running game. They've both been in the league just 2 years, so whether they're "above average" is still largely unknown. And in Ryan's case, the Bills had no shot at him (the same with Palmer and McNabb, although they allegedly tried to trade for him and he said no). McNabb and Palmer I'd consider better than "above average," unless by "above average" you mean anything better than average, in which case Pro Bowl players would qualify. Are you saying that Clausen is "above average?" This points out that the foolish thing about the argument in this thread is that it is based upon an assessment of Clausen as an individual players built on the illusion that this individual would perform the same way on every team that he is on. This is simply false as one of the best things about the NFL is that in many ways it is the ultimate team game. A team can have the best QB ever (arguably Manning is), a great GM, (Polian is judged by most), one of the best PKs ever, etc etc etc and they still need the perfect HC for this squad (defensive wizard Dungy) and then and only then they win one SB. The problem with Clausen as a Bills picks is not Clausen it is the Bills. They do not have the team which could allow Clausen to develop the skills he needs to be truly considered NFL ready and even worse following in the legacy of Jimbo and the hapless record amassed by the Bills as they flailed around with bad QB choice after bad QB choice, Rotoworld would need to make a credible case that the Bills would do right by Clausen before they best themselves up for not picking him.
Doc Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 This points out that the foolish thing about the argument in this thread is that it is based upon an assessment of Clausen as an individual players built on the illusion that this individual would perform the same way on every team that he is on. This is simply false as one of the best things about the NFL is that in many ways it is the ultimate team game. A team can have the best QB ever (arguably Manning is), a great GM, (Polian is judged by most), one of the best PKs ever, etc etc etc and they still need the perfect HC for this squad (defensive wizard Dungy) and then and only then they win one SB. The problem with Clausen as a Bills picks is not Clausen it is the Bills. They do not have the team which could allow Clausen to develop the skills he needs to be truly considered NFL ready and even worse following in the legacy of Jimbo and the hapless record amassed by the Bills as they flailed around with bad QB choice after bad QB choice, Rotoworld would need to make a credible case that the Bills would do right by Clausen before they best themselves up for not picking him. So if Clausen bombs with the Panthers, whose fault is that? Conversely, what if Trent/Fitz/Brohm succeeds with the Bills?
Dr. K Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 I think the main thing is in the whole 9 vs 41 vs not at all debate -- as a coach and gm, any qb taken in the first two rounds you sink or swim with. If you believe in a qb, you take him at 9 even if hes rated lower, if you dont believe hes your franchise, you dont take him at 41 either, even if its value. A guy like Troupe wont be your own career on the line, a guy like claussen is.... so if you dont want to hitch your wagon to him, you just have to stay away unless he somehow falls to 3 or later (see edwards here, or mccoy in cleveland) and suddenly its not a make or break pick. +1. Really smart comment, seems irrefutable.
peteski Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 Yes Rotoworls was correct. We did blow it by not picking Claussen. Now our streak of getting busts in the beginning of drafts are going to end. Spiller and Troupe for rookies of the year on each side of the ball.
Mr. WEO Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 I think the main thing is in the whole 9 vs 41 vs not at all debate -- as a coach and gm, any qb taken in the first two rounds you sink or swim with. If you believe in a qb, you take him at 9 even if hes rated lower, if you dont believe hes your franchise, you dont take him at 41 either, even if its value. A guy like Troupe wont be your own career on the line, a guy like claussen is.... so if you dont want to hitch your wagon to him, you just have to stay away unless he somehow falls to 3 or later (see edwards here, or mccoy in cleveland) and suddenly its not a make or break pick. So you pick an NT in order to safeguard your career as GM? That's great--real bold. if he's anything but frankly awful, he can chug along at NT and no one will notice or say much. Sweet!
billsfreak Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 You missed the biggest difference, of course. Kelly was a FAR FAR better and more universally lauded prospect than Clausen. Generally, drafting a guy in the 2nd round who you aren't that sold on, and who really would rather not play for you, isn't a good idea. I am not so sure he was a more lauded prospect, in addition, Kelly had an injury history that cost him almost his whole senior season in college. Kelly was what, the 3rd or 4th QB taken in that draft? Don't get me wrong, I am not dissing Kelly, but he wasn't anymore lauded than Clausen was.
Mr. WEO Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 Ah, so now you've changed it from from "great" to "greatest." Okay. Let's say someone like Ngata. Remember him? The guy you didn't want the Bills to draft in 2006? Flacco benefits from having Ngata on defense and having a great defense and running game. Ryan didn't look so good without his running game. They've both been in the league just 2 years, so whether they're "above average" is still largely unknown. And in Ryan's case, the Bills had no shot at him (the same with Palmer and McNabb, although they allegedly tried to trade for him and he said no). McNabb and Palmer I'd consider better than "above average," unless by "above average" you mean anything better than average, in which case Pro Bowl players would qualify. Are you saying that Clausen is "above average?" Ngata is one guy on a very good defense. I'm sure Flacco loves them all. The Ravens are much better off because Flacco (who is an above average QB to this point, I'm comfortable saying) is QB as opposed to Troy Smith or Kyle Boller than they are because Ngata is NT as opposed to some other guy.This should be intuitive.
The Dean Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 I am not so sure he was a more lauded prospect, in addition, Kelly had an injury history that cost him almost his whole senior season in college. Kelly was what, the 3rd or 4th QB taken in that draft? Don't get me wrong, I am not dissing Kelly, but he wasn't anymore lauded than Clausen was. Kelly was one of the top prospects in a draft class that was (and is) widely seen as having a number of great QB prospects. He was picked #14 in the first round, the 3rd QB picked. SIX QBs were picked in the first round in 1983 (and there were only 28 teams then). Clausen lasted until the 2nd round in a draft class that was considered extremely weak at the QB position. The quality and expectations of these two coming out of college isn't remotely comparable.
Mr. WEO Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 Look, as far as qbs go for this franchise I am not worried. Nix: Phillip Rivers and Drew Brees Gailey: Dynamic offenses even with mediocre QBs. We are set. May take a few years though. Can we at least stop with the kudos for Nix "drafting" Rivers?
iinii Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 Jimmy is now like 3rd in line now yet he was a shame for the Bills to pass on twice?? Hmmm.... 3. Bills pass on Jimmy Clausen, twice Entering April's draft with the league's worst quarterback situation, the Bills had two chances to select pro-ready Jimmy Clausen. They passed both times, opting instead to bolster an already strong tailback corps with C.J. Spiller at No. 9, and taking raw nose tackle Torrell Troup 41st. New coach Chan Gailey plans to hold a three-way QB competition in camp consisting of injury-prone Trent Edwards, draft bust Brian Brohm, and noodle-armed journeyman Ryan Fitzpatrick. http://m.nbcsports.com/s/showPage.do?siteI...icleId=38349607 Rotoworld has how many SB rings? Lombardi Trophies?
Doc Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 Ngata is one guy on a very good defense. I'm sure Flacco loves them all. The Ravens are much better off because Flacco (who is an above average QB to this point, I'm comfortable saying) is QB as opposed to Troy Smith or Kyle Boller than they are because Ngata is NT as opposed to some other guy.This should be intuitive. You'd have taken Flacco in 2008? You mean you heard of him before he was drafted? Surprising. The Bills wouldn't have, since they still thought Edwards had a future at that time. BTW, Flacco was 15th in yards and TD passes. I don't know what you consider "above average," but I agree he's "above Boller and Smith."
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