Thurman#1 Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 I believe with the right tutelage Bell could have some potential.. Not one of use on here would have believe Peters would have been a pretty good left tackle comin from the TE position but that piece of **** prove with the right coachin' it could be done. For the goodness of mankind let's pray one of these guys can at least handle the position.... It wasn't the coaching that made Peters great. Again, he made the change during the offseason after his first year, and by the middle of his second year, after four months consisiting of OTAs and one training camp, and half a season of watching, he was in the lineup and immediately the best OL on the Bills. Sure, coaching helped, but you don't get that much better that fast from coaching. It's also worth remembering that we had a superb OL coach the last two years. Sean Kugler was snapped up by the Steelers the minute we let him go. Bell has had extremely good coaching in his two years with the Bills. Could he be something? Maybe. But it wasn't the OL coaching that held him back.
Thurman#1 Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 This was discussed in a different thread a while back. More a case of semantics. Bell was inactive his entire rookie season (If I'm not mistaken was on practice squad for the majority of the year, and was elevated to roster but not active for last game, or something like that). Last year was not his rookie season, but he was technically a first year player having never been on the active roster before, making him a second year player this year. Regardless, prior to the cap we would routinely "season" OL players for 3-5 years before starting them, so suggesting a player can't develop further because he is now three years out from being drafted is kinda silly. It was indeed discussed. And the upshot was that when you have been on a roster for a year, and that includes practice squads and inactive and active players, when OTAs start the next year, you are in no way, and in no sense, a rookie or a first-year player. Calling Bell a rookie last year was simply and purely a mistake. Pretty much. For all intents and purposes, a guy who is inactive all season long during his rookie year, is pretty much still a rookie when he finally hits the field. But I don't think he'll be a factor in the LT battle anyway. You mean "pretty much" and "for all intents and purposes" in the sense of "almost, but not actually," like "I'm pretty much 6' 3" in that I'm 6' 1" "? Yeah, OK. Maybe he was pretty much a rookie or a first year man, but he was not a rookie or a first-year man. I hear you, and I know you didn't say this, but what transient said was wrong.. The guy practiced with the team for a year. He's not a rookie. OK, OK, easy now, Thurman#1, take the medication. You know it calms you down ... good boy ... good boy.
mpl6876 Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 It is a gamble but, after all, it is also the first year for Nix and Gailey who have never even seen the field with these players. For LT as well as with QB it will be a "see what we got" kind of year and then IMO, they will fix whatever needs fixing or filling next season. I believe "Rome wasn't built in a day" will be their approach. We'll either hit a home run or bomb out and get a high pick or two next draft and there is supposedly several highly touted offensive tackles that will be available then (See todays article on www.nfl.com by Gil Brandt). I also believe they will focus on running the ball enough and with enough different looks as to possibly offset the "weakness" at left tackle. I think that sums it up in a nutshell. I mean that in a negative way. IMO, that is what is wrong with the Bills front office and the fans in general. Many of you have no sense of urgency to win. I want to win tomorrow. I cannot stand on my hands and pretend everything is "rosey" when I see mistakes being made. Not addressing the QB and LT issues year after year is and was a mistake! Yet. fans make the statement we will see what we have and address it next year? I don't understand that mindset or philosophy. We all know what we have at QB and LT don't we? It is sub par to be polite. Gailey and Nix should know what we have too? Are we/they stuck in thinking they can be the "man" to turn things around? I highly doubt that... The wait til next year attitude sickens me... Sorry to be so negative it is just that when I read this my blood started boiling and to top it off someone replies I agree with you 100% Maybe, I am missing something....
BobbyC81 Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 I'm so sick of the LT troubles....let's just find a lefty QB and worry about the RT for a change.... Obviously I'm kidding. Just a slow day and had to throw it out there. Could have had one if they drafted Tebow. I'm jusy sayin'
Doc Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 You mean "pretty much" and "for all intents and purposes" in the sense of "almost, but not actually," like "I'm pretty much 6' 3" in that I'm 6' 1" "? Yeah, OK. Maybe he was pretty much a rookie or a first year man, but he was not a rookie or a first-year man. I hear you, and I know you didn't say this, but what transient said was wrong.. The guy practiced with the team for a year. He's not a rookie. OK, OK, easy now, Thurman#1, take the medication. You know it calms you down ... good boy ... good boy. Apparently you do want to make it a semantic argument. Which is your prerogative. To which I'd say "so what if he wasn't a true rookie last year?" Was Gailey going to hand him the starting job merely based on that fact and not make him compete for it? Did no one in the Bills' FO or coaching staff know that Bell was not a true rookie last year, and because of that belief, they didn't draft a LT?
Green Lightning Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 I think that sums it up in a nutshell. I mean that in a negative way. IMO, that is what is wrong with the Bills front office and the fans in general. Many of you have no sense of urgency to win. I want to win tomorrow. I cannot stand on my hands and pretend everything is "rosey" when I see mistakes being made. Not addressing the QB and LT issues year after year is and was a mistake! Yet. fans make the statement we will see what we have and address it next year? I don't understand that mindset or philosophy. We all know what we have at QB and LT don't we? It is sub par to be polite. Gailey and Nix should know what we have too? Are we/they stuck in thinking they can be the "man" to turn things around? I highly doubt that...The wait til next year attitude sickens me... Sorry to be so negative it is just that when I read this my blood started boiling and to top it off someone replies I agree with you 100% Maybe, I am missing something.... Sorry to be so negative? When the Hell have you ever been positive? That said, the troll has a point. This is a Hell of a gamble and the only way I make sense of it is to remember Buddy and Chan have forgotten more about football than I'm ever going to learn.
Orton's Arm Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 I think that sums it up in a nutshell. I mean that in a negative way. IMO, that is what is wrong with the Bills front office and the fans in general. Many of you have no sense of urgency to win. I want to win tomorrow. I cannot stand on my hands and pretend everything is "rosey" when I see mistakes being made. Not addressing the QB and LT issues year after year is and was a mistake! Yet. fans make the statement we will see what we have and address it next year? I don't understand that mindset or philosophy. We all know what we have at QB and LT don't we? It is sub par to be polite. Gailey and Nix should know what we have too? Are we/they stuck in thinking they can be the "man" to turn things around? I highly doubt that...The wait til next year attitude sickens me... Sorry to be so negative it is just that when I read this my blood started boiling and to top it off someone replies I agree with you 100% Maybe, I am missing something.... Given the direction this team has gone over the last ten years--ever since Kelly retired in fact--you have every right to feel disappointed and frustrated with the performance of the front office. Your expectations would have to be pretty low for you not to feel frustrated. At present, the team is depleted of talent due to years of poor and short-sighted choices by the front office. There's just too much of a talent shortage to fill all the holes in one off-season. Going into the 2010 off-season, the Bills had holes at some of the hardest-to-fill positions: QB, LT, RT, C, NT, RDE, #1 WR, and others. Other than at center, you're very unlikely to be able to fill any of those holes successfully with a third round pick or lower. Circumstances dictated a multi-year rebuilding plan both because of the number of holes, and the fact that so many of those holes were at the positions most highly valued in the draft. My hope as a fan is that the 2010 draft represented a first in a series of steps which will ultimately result in a complete team with good players at the most important positions. (Among which are QB and LT.) If the Bills don't win very many games this season, they'll have a good shot at drafting a QB like Ponder in the 2011 draft. It wouldn't surprise me if Ponder went on to have a better career than any of the QBs drafted in 2010. But that said, I don't want to get my hopes up for Ponder until or unless he actually dons a Bills uniform.
billsrcursed Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 I think that sums it up in a nutshell. I mean that in a negative way. IMO, that is what is wrong with the Bills front office and the fans in general. Many of you have no sense of urgency to win. I want to win tomorrow. I cannot stand on my hands and pretend everything is "rosey" when I see mistakes being made. Not addressing the QB and LT issues year after year is and was a mistake! Yet. fans make the statement we will see what we have and address it next year? I don't understand that mindset or philosophy. We all know what we have at QB and LT don't we? It is sub par to be polite. Gailey and Nix should know what we have too? Are we/they stuck in thinking they can be the "man" to turn things around? I highly doubt that...The wait til next year attitude sickens me... Sorry to be so negative it is just that when I read this my blood started boiling and to top it off someone replies I agree with you 100% Maybe, I am missing something.... Why do you get upset with the fans??? I have no control over what the FO does to prepare for each season. So other than taking a "see what we got" attitude, what else can I as a fan do??? Of course, I could lock myself in my bedroom and punch holes in the walls, kick my dog, and start e-fights with busters online, but how productive is that, really?? Relax, nothing you say or do is going to change our LT situation, and that includes which shade of glasses you choose to sport.
mpl6876 Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 Given the direction this team has gone over the last ten years--ever since Kelly retired in fact--you have every right to feel disappointed and frustrated with the performance of the front office. Your expectations would have to be pretty low for you not to feel frustrated. At present, the team is depleted of talent due to years of poor and short-sighted choices by the front office. There's just too much of a talent shortage to fill all the holes in one off-season. Going into the 2010 off-season, the Bills had holes at some of the hardest-to-fill positions: QB, LT, RT, C, NT, RDE, #1 WR, and others. Other than at center, you're very unlikely to be able to fill any of those holes successfully with a third round pick or lower. Circumstances dictated a multi-year rebuilding plan both because of the number of holes, and the fact that so many of those holes were at the positions most highly valued in the draft. My hope as a fan is that the 2010 draft represented a first in a series of steps which will ultimately result in a complete team with good players at the most important positions. (Among which are QB and LT.) If the Bills don't win very many games this season, they'll have a good shot at drafting a QB like Ponder in the 2011 draft. It wouldn't surprise me if Ponder went on to have a better career than any of the QBs drafted in 2010. But that said, I don't want to get my hopes up for Ponder until or unless he actually dons a Bills uniform. Very good response. I agree with you that we have many holes to fill. My fear is that next year we won't draft or acquire a QB or LT either. I thought for sure this new regime was going to address these two issues...Please don't tell me that they did with the drafting of Wang and Brown....
mpl6876 Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 Why do you get upset with the fans??? I have no control over what the FO does to prepare for each season. So other than taking a "see what we got" attitude, what else can I as a fan do??? Of course, I could lock myself in my bedroom and punch holes in the walls, kick my dog, and start e-fights with busters online, but how productive is that, really?? Relax, nothing you say or do is going to change our LT situation, and that includes which shade of glasses you choose to sport. I am passionate about my Bills and I really hate when we don't win. It almost ruins my Sundays. I want to know what we have which is a tough nosed football team who knows how to win down the stretch. I don't want a "see what we got" team as you put it. As a fan, I can use forums like these to vent, learn more about my team, see others viewpoints, etc...But, I can't control the Bills FO.
Orton's Arm Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 Very good response. I agree with you that we have many holes to fill. My fear is that next year we won't draft or acquire a QB or LT either. I thought for sure this new regime was going to address these two issues...Please don't tell me that they did with the drafting of Wang and Brown.... I admit that as a fan, one of my biggest fears is that there will be a franchise QB there when the Bills pick, and that they'll use the pick to grab some other position instead. The QB position has been a source of pain for the Bills ever since Kelly hung up his cleats. A guy like Ponder can end that pain for a long time to come; and can turn that position into a source of considerable strength. For that reason, I am vehemently opposed to passing up a franchise QB. I have similar feelings about the LT position, albeit to a lesser degree. In a perfect world, the Bills would enter the 2011 draft with a top-10 pick. They'd use that pick on Ponder. Then they'd trade their 2nd and 3rd round picks away to get back into the first round, where they'd take a LT. Some people might complain about the lack of bodies--about the fact that you only addressed two holes when you could potentially have filled three. But this is a case of quality over quantity. The holes that would be addressed would be at premium positions and (presumably) filled with first-rate players who will turn their respective positions into sources of long-term strength.
tennesseeboy Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2010/7/19/...t-tackle-battle An interesting take on the LT competition. I agree with the author that it's a big gamble on Nix & Gailey's part to let a former 7th rounder & a former practice squad member battle it out for one of the most important positions on offense. Frankly he's way too kind. Its freaking the height of negligence not to have addressed not only this error but the lack of starting talent or depth on the offensive line. Yeah...Levitre and Wood are good additions but we need 7 to 8 first rate offensive linemen. I watched a little of the Ravens/Oakland game rerun on NFL Station yesterday and the Raven running game with that excellent offensive line was outstanding. You have to build from the trenches out and it is a little scary (to say the least) that it hasn't been addressed.
mpl6876 Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 I admit that as a fan, one of my biggest fears is that there will be a franchise QB there when the Bills pick, and that they'll use the pick to grab some other position instead. The QB position has been a source of pain for the Bills ever since Kelly hung up his cleats. A guy like Ponder can end that pain for a long time to come; and can turn that position into a source of considerable strength. For that reason, I am vehemently opposed to passing up a franchise QB. I have similar feelings about the LT position, albeit to a lesser degree. In a perfect world, the Bills would enter the 2011 draft with a top-10 pick. They'd use that pick on Ponder. Then they'd trade their 2nd and 3rd round picks away to get back into the first round, where they'd take a LT. Some people might complain about the lack of bodies--about the fact that you only addressed two holes when you could potentially have filled three. But this is a case of quality over quantity. The holes that would be addressed would be at premium positions and (presumably) filled with first-rate players who will turn their respective positions into sources of long-term strength. I know it is too soon to tell but right now you have Ponder ahead of Mallot, Luck, and Lockleer? I like Ponder because of his attitiude and accuracy but his arm strength isn't the greatest. I don't have him rated ahead of the guys I mentioned above.
Doc Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 Would everyone have felt more comfortable if the Bills had drafted Anthony Davis, Roger Saffold, Charles Brown, or Bruce Campbell, and had him starting at LT?
mpl6876 Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 Would everyone have felt more comfortable if the Bills had drafted Anthony Davis, Roger Saffold, Charles Brown, or Bruce Campbell, and had him starting at LT? Very good question? Hard to answer that without seeing them in camp and evaluating them? Kind of a "trap" question. I will say I wish we would have drafted Davis, Saffold, or Brown. Not a big fan of Campbell.
Green Lightning Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 Would everyone have felt more comfortable if the Bills had drafted Anthony Davis, Roger Saffold, Charles Brown, or Bruce Campbell, and had him starting at LT? Very good point. If we drafted one of them we'd still bemoan the QB situation and been debating the NT situation. Spiller gives us a true offensive weapon - one that other OC's have to game plan for - for the first time in a decade. Buddy and Chan know that this is year one of the rebuild. Fans have to get comfortable with that. I wonder if it were Cowher playing the same cards as Chan is now would there be so much angst?
tennesseeboy Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2010/7/19/...t-tackle-battle An interesting take on the LT competition. I agree with the author that it's a big gamble on Nix & Gailey's part to let a former 7th rounder & a former practice squad member battle it out for one of the most important positions on offense. Frankly he's way too kind. Its freaking the height of negligence not to have addressed not only this error but the lack of starting talent or depth on the offensive line. Yeah...Levitre and Wood are good additions but we need 7 to 8 first rate offensive linemen. I watched a little of the Ravens/Oakland game rerun on NFL Station yesterday and the Raven running game with that excellent offensive line was outstanding. You have to build from the trenches out and it is a little scary (to say the least) that it hasn't been addressed.
indiragandhi'sthong Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 The problem with the left tackle battle is that it should be a right tackle battle. I think they have some quality candidates for the right side, but no one on the roster to be a solid (if not, gifted) blind side protector. I believe Bell could be a terrific RT, but forcing the issue with him at LT so early in his career is hampering his development. Perhaps, if he was given a chance at RT and some extra time to develop (with a vet LT) he could make the transition down the road. Meredith = solid backup/Wang = chinese porn star Just my two cents.
Mr. WEO Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 http://www.amazon.com/Blindsided-Overrated...s/dp/0470124091 Nice! I'm guessing that Nix and CG feel the same way, given what we've got at LT so far.
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