The left tackle battle

[mattsox]

We have a left tackle? I don't think so. We traded Peters and didn't have a plan B for that. And so far it hasn't been addressed by the current regime. The 2 most important offensive positions are found wanting on this team x 100. No LT and no QB is not a good way to rebuild a franchise.

[Doc]

hell there were four last year...Oher, Monroe, Smiths, Jason and Andre. Jake Long and Ryan Cady from the 2008 first round. Thomas, Brown and Staley from the year before that. Bryant McKinney and Orlando Pace from years past come to mind. Where on earth did you come up with that assertion?

How do you figure that Oher, Monroe, and the Smiths are "top rated LT's?" So far they've proven nothing of the sort. And how many "top rated LT's" have come from outside the first round? Several.

[Doc]

Marv Levy did not run Malarky out of town. It is the opposite. Levy publicly stated that he was there to help Malarky in any way he could. Plain and simple Malarky wanted out. He realized that the way this dysfunctional organization worked that he stood little chance to succeed. It was Malarky who sought the buy out he got.

 

There are not many HCs who would seek a buyout of their current HC job, especially when they would be allowed to play out their contract. He wanting to leave what is normally considered a coveted job by a coach is a statement in itself about the state of affairs of the franchise during his tenure.

Mularkey resigned because he was told to fire under-performing coaches and because his kids were getting harassed at school. This after a bad 2005 season, which followed the 2004 season that saw the Bills fail to make the playoffs after being unable to beat the Steelers' backups.

 

No coach resigns because of the alleged dysfunctionality of an organization: they stay and look to be fired, so as to collect the remainder of their contract. Look at Tom Cable in Oakland.

When Greg Williams was in the last year of his contract Tom Donahoe offered him a short extension so he woudln't be a lame duck HC. Williams declined. After the expiration of his contract he left to be the DC for the Redskins where he made twice as much money as he did when he was the HC for the Bills.

So, we're back to the "Ralph is cheap" argument again?

[mpl6876]

What hogwash. I compared the LEFT TACKLE position. I didn't compare the teams. Try a reading comprehension course before making silly posts about what you think I said, and then calling that silly.

 

Doc, I know you compared the LT position. What were you trying to say? What was the purpose of the statement? What are the implications of your statement?

 

Let me make a similar comparison. The Bills secondary is solid and looks great with Bryd, Mckelvin, Florence, Scott, Mcgee, etc. The Cowboys look to be weak in the secondary with Jenkins, Newman, Ball, Hamlin, etc.....

 

What the "F" is my point!

 

Doc, your arrogance is annoying.

[Hossage]

mpl, I just wanted to tell you to go have some farm sex.

[mpl6876]

mpl, I just wanted to tell you to go have some farm sex.

 

Hi Hossage, I haven't heard from you in a long time. I hope you and your family are doing well. Things here on the farm are quite well.

 

Lets go Bills!

[Doc]

Doc, I know you compared the LT position. What were you trying to say? What was the purpose of the statement? What are the implications of your statement?

 

Let me make a similar comparison. The Bills secondary is solid and looks great with Bryd, Mckelvin, Florence, Scott, Mcgee, etc. The Cowboys look to be weak in the secondary with Jenkins, Newman, Ball, Hamlin, etc.....

 

What the "F" is my point!

 

Doc, your arrogance is annoying.

You ignorance is annoying. And your comparison is silly.

[tennesseeboy]

How do you figure that Oher, Monroe, and the Smiths are "top rated LT's?" So far they've proven nothing of the sort. And how many "top rated LT's" have come from outside the first round? Several.

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04...he-top-10-list/

 

ok...Ferguson, Long, Clady, Thomas and McKinney from this list. The other starters are in their first or second year respectively but well on the way to being top ranked (in the top 15) Several top rated anythings have come from out of the first round.. Brady, Warner at qb off the top of my head. I don't see your point. You wanted to know if there were five from the first round. Remember that many of the others (McNeil as an obvious case in point) came high in the second round. You want a top LT you get him in the first round or high in the second for the most part.

[tennesseeboy]

Whoops...Brown and Gross were first rounders and Light was taken high in the second round.

[JohnC]

Mularkey resigned because he was told to fire under-performing coaches and because his kids were getting harassed at school. This after a bad 2005 season, which followed the 2004 season that saw the Bills fail to make the playoffs after being unable to beat the Steelers' backups.

 

No coach resigns because of the alleged dysfunctionality of an organization: they stay and look to be fired, so as to collect the remainder of their contract. Look at Tom Cable in Oakland.

 

Mularky could have stayed and received full payment. He solely made the decision to ask for and get a buy out. He saw the chicken shiit way this organization was run and concluded it would be impossible for him to be successful. His judgment proved correct.

 

So, we're back to the "Ralph is cheap" argument again?

 

You missed the point as you usually do. Greg Williams preferred to not accept the extension because he realized that he would have better opportunities for success and remuneration once he left the bills. It worked out for him. He currently has a SB ring.

[Doc]

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04...he-top-10-list/

 

ok...Ferguson, Long, Clady, Thomas and McKinney from this list. The other starters are in their first or second year respectively but well on the way to being top ranked (in the top 15) Several top rated anythings have come from out of the first round.. Brady, Warner at qb off the top of my head. I don't see your point. You wanted to know if there were five from the first round. Remember that many of the others (McNeil as an obvious case in point) came high in the second round. You want a top LT you get him in the first round or high in the second for the most part.

The Bills didn't have a shot at Ferguson, Long, or Thomas, or a whole host of others who haven't yet proven themselves. They had a shot at Clady, but he was from Boise State, which plays in the MAC, so it wasn't like he was a sure thing. Moreover look at how many OT's are taken in the 1st and 2nd round who bust. The point was that you can find a successful LT from outside the 1st 2 rounds.

[Cookiemonster]

in that sense would you be more comfortable with mccoy tebow or clausen calling plays against miaimi, i think not

I don't know about that, but I would be more comfortable in the middle of your Avatar!

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

hell there were four last year...Oher, Monroe, Smiths, Jason and Andre. Jake Long and Ryan Cady from the 2008 first round. Thomas, Brown and Staley from the year before that. Bryant McKinney and Orlando Pace from years past come to mind. Where on earth did you come up with that assertion?

 

 

Ok got a little carried away, but the point remains good lines and good teams do not NEED a first round pick LT. Here are 11 teams with recent success and less than first round tackles

 

San Diego ChargersMarcus McNeill, Round: 2

New England Patriots Matt Light, Round 2

Tennessee Titans Michael Roos, Round: 2

Colts Charlie Johnson round 6 (took Ugoh's 2nd rd's job)

Eagles jason Peters UDFA

Saints Jermon Bushrod Round: 4

steelers Max Starks round 3

Cowboys Flozell Adams Round 2

packers Chad Clifton round 2

Giants DAvid Deihl Round: 5

Honorable mention

Jared Gaither Ravens 5th round

[BillsVet]

The Bills didn't have a shot at Ferguson, Long, or Thomas, or a whole host of others who haven't yet proven themselves. They had a shot at Clady, but he was from Boise State, which plays in the MAC, so it wasn't like he was a sure thing. Moreover look at how many OT's are taken in the 1st and 2nd round who bust. The point was that you can find a successful LT from outside the 1st 2 rounds.

 

Sure you can find a top LT beyond the 2nd round. You can also find franchise QB's in the 6th round. Anything's possible, but some positions due to physical demands are found in the first round. Truth is, there aren't many quality starting NFL OLT's who were taken in the 3rd round and below. I show 9 as being taken in the 3rd round or later, with the best being former Bills LT Jason Peters. None of the other 8 are more than average: Doug Free, David Diehl, Jermon Bushrod, Donald Penn, Mario Henderson, Charlie Johnson, Max Starks, and whoever Buffalo plays. The other 23 NFL teams have a first or second invested in their LT.

 

Go ahead and conflate the argument by saying most quality players are taken in the first round anyway, but it's apparent the Bills are trying to find a decent LT from the scrap heap. It rarely happens.

 

BTW, Clady was widely recognized as a premier talent, regardless of conference he played in. So much so that he was taken in Buffalo's reserved draft position of 12th overall.

[Orton's Arm]

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04...he-top-10-list/

 

ok...Ferguson, Long, Clady, Thomas and McKinney from this list. The other starters are in their first or second year respectively but well on the way to being top ranked (in the top 15) Several top rated anythings have come from out of the first round.. Brady, Warner at qb off the top of my head. I don't see your point. You wanted to know if there were five from the first round. Remember that many of the others (McNeil as an obvious case in point) came high in the second round. You want a top LT you get him in the first round or high in the second for the most part.

That list of the best LTs in the NFL is a good find! I'll list the LTs and where they were picked. Bolded players were taken in the top 15 picks.

 

1) Joe Thomas, Cleveland. 3rd overall pick

2) Ryan Clady, Broncos. 12th overall pick

3) Jake Long, Dolphins. 1st overall pick

4) Jared Gaither, Ravens. 5th round pick

5) Michael Roos, Titans. 2nd round (9th pick of 2nd round)

6) D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Jets. 4th overall pick

7) Jordan Gross, Panthers. 8th overall pick

8) Matt Light, Patriots. 2nd round pick (48th overall)

9) Jammal Brown, Saints. 13th overall pick.

10) Marcus McNeil, Chargers. 2nd round pick (50th overall)

 

Of the ten players listed above, nine were taken in the first or second rounds. Six were taken in the top 15, including four taken in the top 10.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Mularkey resigned because he was told to fire under-performing coaches and because his kids were getting harassed at school. This after a bad 2005 season, which followed the 2004 season that saw the Bills fail to make the playoffs after being unable to beat the Steelers' backups.

 

No coach resigns because of the alleged dysfunctionality of an organization: they stay and look to be fired, so as to collect the remainder of their contract. Look at Tom Cable in Oakland.

Let's get the timeline right. Mularkey had already fired several assistants. He wasn't falling on his sword for them; they had already been dumped.

 

Now, why would I choose to not believe what the man said himself versus your take? He said he realized that the organization was headed in the wrong direction, that it wasn't being put together in such a way that he could compete, and thus he decided to quit. Mike Mularkey said this himself. That trumps internet rumor and innuendo about his kid maybe getting a swirly at school so he had to tuck his tail between his legs and leave Buffalo.

 

Why did he say that? It was obviously directed at Ralph and Marv who had a few weeks prior installed themselves as the President and "GM of Football". In 20/20 hindsight, Coach Mularkey called a spade a spade and was dead nuts right on target. Marv and Ralph weren't up to the task. That's just objectively obvious at this point.

[ColdBlueNorth]

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2010/7/19/...t-tackle-battle

 

An interesting take on the LT competition. I agree with the author that it's a big gamble on Nix & Gailey's part to let a former 7th rounder & a former practice squad member battle it out for one of the most important positions on offense.

 

Left Tackle is certainly a question mark and going with a luxury pick at #1 will either show the talent evaluation skills of this staff or a continuation of bad decisions that have plagued us for the past decade. They did pick up a solid blocking veteran tight end that can help on that side.

 

I am really curious about the middle of the line - Wood was solid before his injury and Levitre appeared to get stronger or just better with his technique as the year progressed. I remember Andy getting too high out of his break and being bull-rushed into the pocket early in the year. There is potential here, even if we fans are the only ones that can see it.

[Jerry Jabber]

Left Tackle is certainly a question mark and going with a luxury pick at #1 will either show the talent evaluation skills of this staff or a continuation of bad decisions that have plagued us for the past decade. They did pick up a solid blocking veteran tight end that can help on that side.

 

I am really curious about the middle of the line - Wood was solid before his injury and Levitre appeared to get stronger or just better with his technique as the year progressed. I remember Andy getting too high out of his break and being bull-rushed into the pocket early in the year. There is potential here, even if we fans are the only ones that can see it.

 

Last year, when the Bills drafted Byrd in the 2nd round, I was saying "WTF!!! another player for the secondary!!" But after seeing Byrd's play on the field last year, I understood why the Bills drafted him. I'm hoping we'll be saying the same positive stuff about Spiller by the end of the season.

 

I did like the interior of our line and hope Wood comes back strong from his injury. It sounds like the players on the O-line have benefitted so far from the new strength & conditioning program, so we'll see how that translates when the pads go on.

[ColdBlueNorth]

Last year, when the Bills drafted Byrd in the 2nd round, I was saying "WTF!!! another player for the secondary!!" But after seeing Byrd's play on the field last year, I understood why the Bills drafted him. I'm hoping we'll be saying the same positive stuff about Spiller by the end of the season.

 

I did like the interior of our line and hope Wood comes back strong from his injury. It sounds like the players on the O-line have benefitted so far from the new strength & conditioning program, so we'll see how that translates when the pads go on.

 

I have high-hopes for Spiller too - he has some of the intangibles that the Titan Chis Johnson had coming into the league (elusiveness, power, and lots of speed). Sounds like he has his head on straight and for a rookie these days that is saying something.

[tennesseeboy]

The Bills didn't have a shot at Ferguson, Long, or Thomas, or a whole host of others who haven't yet proven themselves. They had a shot at Clady, but he was from Boise State, which plays in the MAC, so it wasn't like he was a sure thing. Moreover look at how many OT's are taken in the 1st and 2nd round who bust. The point was that you can find a successful LT from outside the 1st 2 rounds.

if you remember they had a shot at McKinney, picking Williams instead. Your challenge was to find five of the top ten who were first round picks. There are five there and a bunch of other first rounders who are starting. Its not much of a presumption that the Bills had a shot at most of the second round picks who are on that particular list and a few of the first rounders. They also have been known to trade up for a position of need, so they might have gotten any of them except those who went in the top five picks (and even them if they sacrificed enough. The fact is that they did not make any particular effort to address the most critical need on the team and we have not been to the playoffs in so many years because of it.