NoSaint Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Finding a hidden gem is not a PLAN for success. It's like having winning the lottery as your retirement plan. That being said I'm hopeful we find something because it will be another LONG season if we don't. At the same time if we do strike gold again like we did with Peters we'll only end up losing the guy in 3 years because we won't pay him what he's worth either. There is an old saying that goes "it ain't where you're from...it's where you're at". The Bills want to pay these "hidden gems" based upon where they came from not what they developed into. The real difference is finding one blindly undrafted, or taking over a pre-made team, and finding out you have an unappreciated gem when you get there. I think the comparison we are hoping for is Chan and Buddy inherited a mish mash of stuff from there dead aunt, and they just found a diamond and are about to get it appraised. if they didnt pick anyone up i think it speaks volumes to their opinion of atleast one of these guys ability to be viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Nice! I'm guessing that Nix and CG feel the same way, given what we've got at LT so far. Again, as opposed to...what? Drafting an unproven rookie LT and playing him there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 I know it is too soon to tell but right now you have Ponder ahead of Mallot, Luck, and Lockleer? I like Ponder because of his attitiude and accuracy but his arm strength isn't the greatest. I don't have him rated ahead of the guys I mentioned above. I'm comfortable with the idea of a QB lacking first-rate arm strength, as long as his arm is still good enough. What I really want to see is a college QB who looks like a polished passer--a guy who's NFL-ready as opposed to needing time to develop. Ponder's completion percentage is significantly better than that of Locker or most other college QBs likely to be drafted in 2011. It stands to reason that if Ponder has proven to be a more accurate, better pocket passer at the college level, he might well become the better pocket passer as a pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Apparently you do want to make it a semantic argument. Which is your prerogative. Yeah. I pointed out that Gailey was wrong, for whatever reason. He was. I was right. If pointing out that someone was wrong is a semantic argument, I guess my argument was semantic. He expressed himself in words and he was wrong. Of course, pretty much everyone expresses themselves in words, so that would make every argument semantic. Whatever. Gailey was wrong about Bell's status in that quote, I assume from absent-mindedness or that he just misspoke. But he was wrong. To which I'd say "so what if he wasn't a true rookie last year?" Was Gailey going to hand him the starting job merely based on that fact and not make him compete for it? Did no one in the Bills' FO or coaching staff know that Bell was not a true rookie last year, and because of that belief, they didn't draft a LT? To which I would say that this has nothing to do with anything I said, and I don't really care. Why are you shovelling this at me? Is it really in response to my joke? The rest of that post was pretty clearly a joke, I thought. Was it really that opaque to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Yeah. I pointed out that Gailey was wrong, for whatever reason. He was. I was right. If pointing out that someone was wrong is a semantic argument, I guess my argument was semantic. He expressed himself in words and he was wrong. Of course, pretty much everyone expresses themselves in words, so that would make every argument semantic. Whatever. Gailey was wrong about Bell's status in that quote, I assume from absent-mindedness or that he just misspoke. But he was wrong. To which I would say that this has nothing to do with anything I said, and I don't really care. Why are you shovelling this at me? Is it really in response to my joke? The rest of that post was pretty clearly a joke, I thought. Was it really that opaque to you? I missed it. My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Yeah. I pointed out that Gailey was wrong, for whatever reason. He was. I was right. If pointing out that someone was wrong is a semantic argument, I guess my argument was semantic. He expressed himself in words and he was wrong. Of course, pretty much everyone expresses themselves in words, so that would make every argument semantic. Whatever. Gailey was wrong about Bell's status in that quote, I assume from absent-mindedness or that he just misspoke. But he was wrong. To which I would say that this has nothing to do with anything I said, and I don't really care. Why are you shovelling this at me? Is it really in response to my joke? The rest of that post was pretty clearly a joke, I thought. Was it really that opaque to you? An eternal question for doc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 An eternal question for doc. Oh, the irony. Although in your case, it's a matter of black or white. There is nothing in-between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Again, as opposed to...what? Drafting an unproven rookie LT and playing him there? Are you aware that every rookie at any position is unproven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Are you aware that every rookie at any position is unproven? Why yes I am, John. The "unproven" was used for emphasis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 I'm comfortable with the idea of a QB lacking first-rate arm strength, as long as his arm is still good enough. What I really want to see is a college QB who looks like a polished passer--a guy who's NFL-ready as opposed to needing time to develop. Ponder's completion percentage is significantly better than that of Locker or most other college QBs likely to be drafted in 2011. It stands to reason that if Ponder has proven to be a more accurate, better pocket passer at the college level, he might well become the better pocket passer as a pro. Brohm was considered a NFL Ready QB who had been playing in a pro-style offense. Where is he now? The success of QBs in the NFL depend on the system they join, the sole exception being Peyton Manning. Brady, Rothelisberger, Brees, Cutler all enjoyed immediate success because their team was already built for success. Even the Jets rookie QB was able to take his team to the AFC Championship because he had a super-caliber OL in front of him (and he stunk inspite of that), a fantastic running game (best in the league) and a very good defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 Would everyone have felt more comfortable if the Bills had drafted Anthony Davis, Roger Saffold, Charles Brown, or Bruce Campbell, and had him starting at LT? Not a fan of Davis or Campbell, but Saffold or Brown? I wouldn't feel perfectly comfortable, far from it, but a heck of a lot better than I feel now. I think within the next two years or so, Saffold or Brown would very possibly have become decent LTs and if not then almost certainly decent RTs, which alone would have been a step up. I'm not worried about this year so much, we're rebuilding, but if Gailey and Nix had been confident enough in one of these guys to draft him, I would have felt a lot better, yeah, that the position had at least been addressed, though not definitively filled. Yeah, I would've been happier with Brown in the second and Dan Williams in the first than what we got, though I certainly do like Spiller. Or trade back in the first and get Saffold later in the first and an additional pick or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 If you think the Bills' LT situation is scary, check out the Cowboys' plan at LT. They're going to have a former 4th rounder from 2007 named Doug Free, who saw just 1 games worth of action his first 2 years and who started at RT last year for 7 games, protecting Romo's blindside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpl6876 Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 If you think the Bills' LT situation is scary, check out the Cowboys' plan at LT. They're going to have a former 4th rounder from 2007 named Doug Free, who saw just 1 games worth of action his first 2 years and who started at RT last year for 7 games, protecting Romo's blindside. Doc, you forget to mention the Cowboys have Tony Romo, Miles Austin, Dez Bryant, P Crayton, Roy Williams, and Jason Witten, Marc Cloumbo, Alex Barron. You should be ashamed of yourself to compare the Cowboys with the Bills... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 Brohm was considered a NFL Ready QB who had been playing in a pro-style offense. Where is he now? The success of QBs in the NFL depend on the system they join, the sole exception being Peyton Manning. Brady, Rothelisberger, Brees, Cutler all enjoyed immediate success because their team was already built for success. Even the Jets rookie QB was able to take his team to the AFC Championship because he had a super-caliber OL in front of him (and he stunk inspite of that), a fantastic running game (best in the league) and a very good defense. Certainly true of many young QBs, but far from all of them. There was no sensational offensive system in Atlanta for Ryan or Baltimore for Flacco, or many many others in NFL history. Troy Aikman sure didn't step into a great system. How about Archie Manning, one of my all-time favorites. Crap system, crap personnel, tons of guts and smarts and Archie was one of the best in the league. Saw him speak at a seminar a couple of years ago. The guy is pure class. And you're wrong about Brees, who was pretty bad for three years till the light went on, and the light wasn't because the system had suddenly been put in place. It was because he himself finally got it. And I'm sure you and I both can name some QBs put into pretty decent systems who bombed out. Sure the system makes a difference, but it's mostly about the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 Doc, you forget to mention the Cowboys have Tony Romo, Miles Austin, Dez Bryant, P Crayton, Roy Williams, and Jason Witten, Marc Cloumbo, Alex Barron. You should be ashamed of yourself to compare the Cowboys with the Bills... So LT is not important if the rest of the team is good? Good to know. And why should the poster be ashamed for making a good point? Jesus, get a grip..it's a fan board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 So LT is not important if the rest of the team is good? Good to know. And why should the poster be ashamed for making a good point? Jesus, get a grip..it's a fan board. Apparently it's okay to protect your $11M/year QB with a former 4th rounder who has never played the LT position, and who has only played RT for a handful of games, because you have good skill position players (Colombo is their starting RT and Barron is a bust, so why they were mentioned is anyone's guess). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 Are you aware that every rookie at any position is unproven? On the other hand, not every rookie is identical. Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 On the other hand, not every rookie is identical. Go figure. And no 2 snowflakes are identical. So... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 It's arrogance on the team's part to say they believe in guys like Meredith and Bell to play OT. All I see throughout this thread is "hoping" one of these guys steps up and takes the job. Well of course one of them stands to get it, but the operative question is whether they'll play decent football and not get their QB/RB killed. I doubt it. Every now and then teams find a diamond in the proverbial rough. The Bills found Jason Peters as a UDFA, but the chances they find his successor in that manner, late round pick or from another team's PS is absurd. Still, fans will keep believing it can happen until it's obvious neither play can do the job. In the interim, people get bashed for saying it's unlikely Bell, Meredith, or Wang will ever be average NFL starters at OT. I thought last season proved you don't enter the year hoping guys can play all over the field. That's a recipe for disaster, as last year's OL was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 Brohm was considered a NFL Ready QB who had been playing in a pro-style offense. Where is he now? The success of QBs in the NFL depend on the system they join, the sole exception being Peyton Manning. Brady, Rothelisberger, Brees, Cutler all enjoyed immediate success because their team was already built for success. Even the Jets rookie QB was able to take his team to the AFC Championship because he had a super-caliber OL in front of him (and he stunk inspite of that), a fantastic running game (best in the league) and a very good defense. Same could be said for Joe Ferguson. @ 9-5, we barely missed the playoffs in his rookie season, but made it the next year. And that was without a great D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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