Pilsner Posted July 17, 2010 Posted July 17, 2010 I guess Gargamel finally caught Flutie and his smurf friends The smurfs and Flutie always outwitted Gargamel and Azriel :-p
Adam Posted July 17, 2010 Posted July 17, 2010 Speaking of the smurfs, they're coming out with a smurfs movie. Until Gargmel enlisted the help of Jimmy Johnson, who stomped on him and his stupid box of cereal, which prompted that coward to whine like the baby he is
Pilsner Posted July 17, 2010 Posted July 17, 2010 Until Gargmel enlisted the help of Jimmy Johnson, who stomped on him and his stupid box of cereal, which prompted that coward to whine like the baby he is Good thing for the smurfs that back in the day Gargamel didn't enlist Jimmy Johnson as an ally. It would have made the episodes a lot more interesting.
Orton's Arm Posted July 17, 2010 Posted July 17, 2010 Yes, football is a team sport, but there's always 1 guy that touches the ball and leads plays on every play on the offense, and that's the quarterback. The 2000 ravens won with Trent Dilfer and they had an amazing defense. In 2001, that defense was still intact, but Dilfer was gone and Grbac was brought in (like Rob Johnson) to bring a spark to the offense, but Grbac failed and was sent packing after a year. Nobody is arguing that the main reason why the Bills were in the playoffs in 1998 & 1999 was due to the defense, but you keep bringing that up. While at the time Johnson had the potential and the physical tools, he did not have the experience Flutie did and did not know how to manage the game. How many times did Johnson take a sack? How many times did Johnson get knocked out of a game? People bash Trent Edwards up and down about his durability, but Johnson could not stay healthy. What was Johnson's win/loss record in Buffalo? In the 1990 Superbowl, the Giants were led by backup Jeff Hostettler and won the game by 1 point (as much as I hate to say that). Granted Hostettler did not play spectactular, but he did enough to manage the game for the Giants. The QB has the biggest responsibility out of any player on the team. You can have the best defense in the league, but if your QB is constantly getting sacked, fumbles the ball, throws interceptions then he's going to lose the game for you. The Bills could have went back to the playoffs in 2000 if they kept Flutie in as starter after Johnson went down again due to injury. Flutie went 3-1 during the span that Johnson was injured and had the best game of the season in the loss to the Vikings (the Vikings ended up going to the NFC Champiosnhip game that year). Flutie was 4-1 in 2000 while Johnson was 4-7. Nobody is saying that Flutie was a great QB, but he worked at the time behind a ****ty O-line. Another point, you act like the Bills had such great talent on the offense. Reed and Thomas were on the tail ends of their careers in Buffalo. Plus, the O-line sucked. Moulds was still developing as well. The Bills offense was not great. Remember in 1997, the Bills went 6-10 between Collins & Van Pelt. You make good points in your post. Trent Dilfer: I agree that even with their defense the Ravens of 200 needed something at QB. Tony Banks clearly failed to provide that something. There was a five stretch during 2000 when the Ravens' offense failed to score a TD. The Ravens went 2-3 during that stretch. The defense couldn't do everything alone. Elvis Grbac was a downgrade from Dilfer; and that downgrade was one of the reasons why the Ravens didn't repeat as Super Bowl champions in 2001. But despite a season-ending injury to Jamal Lewis, the Ravens went 10-6 in 2001, and won a Wildcard game. Would you feel comfortable saying that Elvis Grbac's record for the year was 10-6? I wouldn't. The Ravens as a team went 10-6; and Grbac happened to be part of that team. I acknowledge that a QB's contribution to the team cannot be reduced to the three stats I mentioned (yards per attempt, TD/INT ratio, and QB rating). As you pointed out, Johnson's propensity to take sacks is something that hurt the team without showing up in any of those three stats. In 1999, the Bills had the rookie Peerless Price as the deep threat, and Eric Moulds as the possession WR. The best season of Moulds' career was in 1998; when he had over 1300 yards. (That was also his third year in the league; which is when many WRs finally get it.) The Bills also had Jay Riemersma at TE during the late '90s. Not that he was stellar; but he was a reasonably proficient pass catcher, and a step or two up from any TE the Bills have had recently. (With the possible future exception of Nelson.) At LT the Bills had John Fina who was about the 20th - 22nd best LT in the league at the time. While that was disappointing, it was worlds better than Demitrius Bell. Ruben Brown was a very good LG. The rest of the OL was underwhelming, but at least even there one often saw faint hints of respectability. There are different gradations of bad OL play; and the bad OL play of the late '90s was less bad than the travesty we witnessed in 2009.
Doc Posted July 17, 2010 Posted July 17, 2010 Because the Chargers were the worst team in the league when Flutie got there. They were 1-15 the year before Flutie & co arrived. But "he just wins." So the team is responsible for winning? Or only losing, when Flutie is the QB?
Skoobydum Posted July 17, 2010 Author Posted July 17, 2010 But "he just wins." So the team is responsible for winning? Or only losing, when Flutie is the QB? Your getting technical now, LOL.
mike oxhurtz Posted July 17, 2010 Posted July 17, 2010 But "he just wins." So the team is responsible for winning? Or only losing, when Flutie is the QB? I never said "he just wins", I just said he was better than Rob Johnson.
Spiderweb Posted July 17, 2010 Posted July 17, 2010 I am so tired of all the Flutie worship. Flutie played like crap the second half of that season. The Bills offense under him was struggling to score. That's why Johnson was put in for Flutie in the last game of the season (against the Colts), a game in which he TORE THEM APART. I don't want to get into the Flutie/Johnson thing again. But I really can't stand the Flutie mythology. Flutie was a good player, made some amazing plays, but the decision to bench him was not based on nothing. The defense was carrying the team in the second half of the season, not Flutie and the sputtering offense. Defenses merely had to keep Flutie in the pocket to render him far less effective, which all of our opposition did in 1999. That was their focus and Flutie's play suffered considerably. Yet, as poorly as Johnson played, one could still make the case that we may have been better off in a big game to have Flutie play rather than Johnson. However, any talk of our advancing had the Bills beaten the official/Titans is silly. As already pointed out, our offensive line was in pitiful shape. Fina was hurt, Hicks (RT) was hurt, as well as others. Our Offense didn't have a chance no matter who we would have played next.
Arkady Renko Posted July 17, 2010 Posted July 17, 2010 This whole thread is silly, IMHO. The idea that the Bills would have beaten the Jaguars (whom they would have played the next week had there been no Home-run throwback) is dumb. Because the Bills lost, the Jags played the Dolphins--and hung 62 points on them. Even if Flutie, who couldn't put up more than 13 points on the lousy Pats of 1999, and more than 7 on the even lousier Jets, was playing QB, they would have been stomped. And yes, Rob Johnson would have gotten them blown out, too. I don't think the Bills would have gotten to the Super Bowl that year regardless. But this is all speculation that I ma not interested in. All I am interested in doing is correcting several errors of FACT that various posters have made, and perhaps to puncture just a little the Flutie Magic myth by pointing out what he really was and was not accomplishing in the fall of 1999. By reference to the facts, not to people's opinions. Why would we have played the Jaguars instead? Weren't the Bills the 5 seed and the Jaguars the 1 seed? The Dolphins beat the Seahawks as the 6th seed. The Dolphins still would be the lowest seed left.
mike oxhurtz Posted July 17, 2010 Posted July 17, 2010 IMO, the during 1998-2000 seasons, with the bad O-lines the Bills had, the QB that would have worked best would have been Jeff Garcia. To bad he was with San Fran at that time.
Arkady Renko Posted July 17, 2010 Posted July 17, 2010 IMO, the during 1998-2000 seasons, with the bad O-lines the Bills had, the QB that would have worked best would have been Jeff Garcia. To bad he was with San Fran at that time. I think in general it is sad that such a championship defense was wasted.
Skoobydum Posted July 17, 2010 Author Posted July 17, 2010 I think in general it is sad that such a championship defense was wasted. Yeah, it makes we really wonder what could have been.
Doc Posted July 17, 2010 Posted July 17, 2010 I never said "he just wins", I just said he was better than Rob Johnson. The point was that by the time RJ (whose penchant for taking sacks and getting injured was his biggest downfall) took over the team, the talent had eroded because of the salary cap. It's funny that RJ's record was almost the same as Flutie's in SD.
Dr. K Posted July 17, 2010 Posted July 17, 2010 Why would we have played the Jaguars instead? Weren't the Bills the 5 seed and the Jaguars the 1 seed? The Dolphins beat the Seahawks as the 6th seed. The Dolphins still would be the lowest seed left. You're right, I'm wrong. The Bills would have played Indianpolis in Indy. If they got past the Colts, then they would have played Jacksonville. My bad. I wonder if the Jags would have had an extra incentive to tee off on Rob J. if he were quarterbacking against them, since he came to the Bills from the Jags. That would have been the media story line for the game, if it ever came to that.
SoulMan Posted July 17, 2010 Posted July 17, 2010 It is very simple my Bills Fan brothers. Flutie plays...we win. One of Mr. Wilson's worst all time blunders.
Jerry Jabber Posted July 17, 2010 Posted July 17, 2010 It is very simple my Bills Fan brothers. Flutie plays...we win. One of Mr. Wilson's worst all time blunders. I agree, that decision and firing Bill Polian were his 2 biggest blunders.
Jerry Jabber Posted July 17, 2010 Posted July 17, 2010 The point was that by the time RJ (whose penchant for taking sacks and getting injured was his biggest downfall) took over the team, the talent had eroded because of the salary cap. It's funny that RJ's record was almost the same as Flutie's in SD. Between 1998-2000 both Flutie and Johnson played on a better Bills team. Flutie had the better win/loss record while both him and Johnson were on the same team. In 2001, Flutie went to the worst team in the league, the San Diego Chargers, who the year before went 1-15. Flutie finished the 2001 season with San Diego 5-11, while Johnson finished 1-7 with the Bills (and got knocked out again). The Chargers were rebuilding, while the Bills were under a new coach and new GM. Hands down, Flutie was the better QB. Like others have said, Flutie was not great, but was a good serviceable QB at the time he was with the Bills.
Skoobydum Posted July 17, 2010 Author Posted July 17, 2010 You're right, I'm wrong. The Bills would have played Indianpolis in Indy. If they got past the Colts, then they would have played Jacksonville. My bad. I wonder if the Jags would have had an extra incentive to tee off on Rob J. if he were quarterbacking against them, since he came to the Bills from the Jags. That would have been the media story line for the game, if it ever came to that. Rob Johnson & the Bills Drill Indy like 31-6 in the final regular season game, was there some logic to getting him in there to do it again to Indy in the playoffs? I personally feel Flutie would of been a better all around QB for the playoffs if heroics were needed, he certainly showed the part all season long to get us there.
SoulMan Posted July 17, 2010 Posted July 17, 2010 And oh by the way. I recall Flutie delayed the unfortunate, inevitable.....the franchise' move to another city.
Doc Posted July 17, 2010 Posted July 17, 2010 Between 1998-2000 both Flutie and Johnson played on a better Bills team. Flutie had the better win/loss record while both him and Johnson were on the same team. In 2001, Flutie went to the worst team in the league, the San Diego Chargers, who the year before went 1-15. Flutie finished the 2001 season with San Diego 5-11, while Johnson finished 1-7 with the Bills (and got knocked out again). The Chargers were rebuilding, while the Bills were under a new coach and new GM. Hands down, Flutie was the better QB. Like others have said, Flutie was not great, but was a good serviceable QB at the time he was with the Bills. In 2001, the Chargers drafted Tomlinson, who gave them 1,600 yard rushing and receiving and 10 TD's, and signed Wiley, who gave them 13 sacks. The Bills OTOH had cut Bruce, Andre, and Thurman after the 1999 season, Ted Washington before that season, had to let Wiley walk, and lost Cowart in the first game of that season. That talent during the Flutie-RJ years was far and away the highest during 1998-1999. Again RJ's problem was that he took too many sacks and was injury-prone, while Flutie eventually was figured-out.
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