Trent Edwards the next Bills Starter?

[CarolinaBill]

mmm hmm. Well, those scouting reports and $1.00 will get you a cuppa joe at Mickey D's, no tip.

 

First of all, lets let Chan decide who the starter will be after pre season is over. That's what he was brought in to do and he needs the chance to do it. Second of all, if it IS Brohm, lets see how he does in game time situations, with bodies akimbo and some serious crap hitting the fan. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but there is a lot more at stake here than a cannon arm and headiness. There is improvisation, especially if the OL doesn't hold up and receivers aren't getting open. There is the ability to throw the ball away rather than take sack after sack after sack and lose huge chunks of yards, as just about every QB since Flutie has failed to do.

 

I have no problem with any of the 3 supposed starters, as long as Chan has made the best decision from what he has seen and who he thinks gives the team the best chance to win over the course of the season.

obviously, all this chatter on a MB means zero

 

My response was to the comment about making sure he has a brain attached to that arm or whatever, which, according to what I've found, he does, also, the misconception of a "cannon arm" that brohm does not have, he has a strong arm, a live arm, NOT A CANNON IN THE MOLD OF JEFF GEORGE, KYLE BOLLER, OR ELWAY FOR EXAMPLE.

[Adam]

In the Nfl if you start and win you get the win, so in Trents case that about evens out based on JP injuries and his. With that:

I am a statistician and I am calling shenanigans on that- you don't get a win in football. Sorry, but this isn't baseball. I do think trent will start and play as well as possible behind the worst OL in history

[Throwback Bills]

I am a statistician and I am calling shenanigans on that- you don't get a win in football. Sorry, but this isn't baseball. I do think trent will start and play as well as possible behind the worst OL in history

 

 

If you don't get the win or a win in football.

 

How do you explain QB comparsions that the team is 4-1 with Whoever and 5-6 with the next guy? Guess what I am asking is it just dump luck that everytime a expert says a QB's win/lose it's the same total as his GS?

[Adam]

If you don't get the win or a win in football.

 

How do you explain QB comparsions that the team is 4-1 with Whoever and 5-6 with the next guy? Guess what I am asking is it just dump luck that everytime a expert says a QB's win/lose it's the same total as his GS?

The QB just doesn't have the same impact that a pitcher does- the other team has to get hits, sacrifices, etc....directly against the pitcher. There are so many more variables in football.

 

And by the way, people wrongly said that Flutie just wins- the defense won those games, as long as Mr. Smurf didn't lose them for us!

[DrFishfinder]

obviously, all this chatter on a MB means zero

 

My response was to the comment about making sure he has a brain attached to that arm or whatever, which, according to what I've found, he does, also, the misconception of a "cannon arm" that brohm does not have, he has a strong arm, a live arm, NOT A CANNON IN THE MOLD OF JEFF GEORGE, KYLE BOLLER, OR ELWAY FOR EXAMPLE.

If Chan decides Brohm is the guy, I'll support him. I will also support any of the others as I am a team fan rather than a fan of a particular QB. If Brohm's the guy, I've got him all the way, brains or arm.... or not. I wouldn't mind seeing him win the job, BTW.

[Pilsner]

If Chan decides Brohm is the guy, I'll support him. I will also support any of the others as I am a team fan rather than a fan of a particular QB. If Brohm's the guy, I've got him all the way, brains or arm.... or not. I wouldn't mind seeing him win the job, BTW.

 

 

I agree Doc. I'll support either qb Chan picks. I have the belief that Chan can couch up either player. Deep down though I've wanted Trent to succeed but imo he doesn't have the brass balls needed. Brohm might have the balls but who knows if he has enough talent to succeed. Only time will tell. But I think Chan will make the most of what he has.

[Guest dog14787]

Again, a good QB makes everyone around him look good. Its a 2 way street. You listed all of those players around him as bad, but what makes you think that Trent has anymore talent than those around him. So Trent is somehow better than all the players around him? Based on what exactly?

 

 

 

 

I hear that allot, a good QB makes everyone around him good, but that doesn't always go for the O-line. Big Ben doesn't make the Steelers O-line look better or Aaron Rodgers doesn't make the Packers O-line look better,(not in my opinion anyway) the two QB's make plays , sure, but the O-lines still look like crap, the QB's get sacked allot and eventually can/will get seriously injured.

 

Rodgers and Big Ben are also an exception to the rule, 90% of the QB's in this league need good protection or they will not perform well.

[CarolinaBill]

If Chan decides Brohm is the guy, I'll support him. I will also support any of the others as I am a team fan rather than a fan of a particular QB. If Brohm's the guy, I've got him all the way, brains or arm.... or not. I wouldn't mind seeing him win the job, BTW.

yup, same here, i just dont think trent has it, so I'm pullin for Brohm.

[SouthGeorgiaBillsFan]

You're implying Evans has no talent? I hope not, because while *maybe* you can say that about every other WR on the roster, Evans could start for pretty much any other team in the NFL.

 

Agreed. I believe you missed the rhetorical point of my statement, but rather than delve on that, I will simply say that he would be the #2 or #3 receiver on most if not all other NFL teams. And umm our other receivers would probably be returning kicks and playing on the scout team. When I say we have no talent at WR, I am speaking comparatively to other NFL teams, especially any team capable of winning half its games.

[SouthGeorgiaBillsFan]

Again, a good QB makes everyone around him look good. Its a 2 way street. You listed all of those players around him as bad, but what makes you think that Trent has anymore talent than those around him. So Trent is somehow better than all the players around him? Based on what exactly?

 

I'm not really sure where you got that from - I believe the only reference I made to Trent's skill level was to say he isn't necessarily a good QB. And while I agree that a good QB makes other players look better, that has absolutely no bearing at all on the fact that Lee Evans cannot run effective routes, does not have enough size to be a threat over the middle, and can be completely taken out of the game by any single DB who plays a soft coverage against him. Look the guy would be an adequate #2 on a team with a good QB and #1 WR, and a great #3 receiver on pretty much any team, but if he is your #1 wide receiver on a team with major QB issues and serious doubts about the state of the O-line, you are in really deep ****.

[grelit]

I'm not really sure where you got that from - I believe the only reference I made to Trent's skill level was to say he isn't necessarily a good QB. And while I agree that a good QB makes other players look better, that has absolutely no bearing at all on the fact that Lee Evans cannot run effective routes, does not have enough size to be a threat over the middle, and can be completely taken out of the game by any single DB who plays a soft coverage against him. Look the guy would be an adequate #2 on a team with a good QB and #1 WR, and a great #3 receiver on pretty much any team, but if he is your #1 wide receiver on a team with major QB issues and serious doubts about the state of the O-line, you are in really deep ****.

 

 

I can respect your view. I misunderstood your point on Trent etc. Lee Evans I think is a good receiver and can be a number one, we just have not had a QB to get the ball to him, IMO. I think the size thing is overrated,(see Steve Smith, Deshean Jackson etc)....

 

My point is, a QB like Payton Manning made Austin Collie and Pierre Garcon look good last year, not exactly household names.

 

People say that Trent needs to be surrounded by good players to succeed. To me that is not the mark of a good QB. A good QB succeeds or at least shows flashes with what he has around him. These days the roster turnover with free agency etc, does not allow the perfect surroundings, so a QB has to make due with what he has unfortunately.

[grelit]

I hear that allot, a good QB makes everyone around him good, but that doesn't always go for the O-line. Big Ben doesn't make the Steelers O-line look better or Aaron Rodgers doesn't make the Packers O-line look better,(not in my opinion anyway) the two QB's make plays , sure, but the O-lines still look like crap, the QB's get sacked allot and eventually can/will get seriously injured.

 

Rodgers and Big Ben are also an exception to the rule, 90% of the QB's in this league need good protection or they will not perform well.

 

 

I respectfully have to counter your point and say this is why Big Ben and Rodgers are considered good NFL QBs and Trent is not. You have to make due with what you have.

 

Tom Bradys O-line was built with late round picks. He made them all look better.

[grelit]

The QB just doesn't have the same impact that a pitcher does- the other team has to get hits, sacrifices, etc....directly against the pitcher. There are so many more variables in football.

 

And by the way, people wrongly said that Flutie just wins- the defense won those games, as long as Mr. Smurf didn't lose them for us!

 

QBs win championships these days.

[grelit]

So do I, but there hasn't ever been a quarterback that has won by himself without a good team around him. Not Marino, Elway, Unitas, Montana, Kelly-none have ever won by himself. You have a better chance to win with an average QB on a good team than a good QB on an average or worse team.

 

You need both. Who is the last average QB to win a Superbowl?

[Guest dog14787]

Agreed. I believe you missed the rhetorical point of my statement, but rather than delve on that, I will simply say that he would be the #2 or #3 receiver on most if not all other NFL teams. And umm our other receivers would probably be returning kicks and playing on the scout team. When I say we have no talent at WR, I am speaking comparatively to other NFL teams, especially any team capable of winning half its games.

 

 

I tend to agree, especially after watching TO come into town and out play Evans on one of TO's worse seasons of his career.

 

 

Thurman Thomas has even voiced his concerns/observations, this Bills football team needs more talent. We may like allot of our high motor, good character players, but when compared to other successful teams/players from a talent perspective, our Buffalo Bills lack talent.

[Adam]

QBs win championships these days.

Wrong. But they are abig piece of the puzzle

[Deadstroke]

Yea...."aweful" isn't a word. And believe me, there is no QB in the NFL that would have succeeded on any team Trent has been the starting QB for. The problem has been an utter lack of talent. No talent on the line, no talent at WR. Now I know you will say "Oh but he has Lee Evans." Please refer to my above comment about no talent at WR.

 

I'm not saying Trent is a good QB. I'm simply saying we certainly have not seen him play to full potential, and also that Joe Montana would look pretty terrible surrounded by this Bills team. And don't expect it to be pretty this year. It's always the darkest right before the sun rises, and this season should prove that out.

 

I believe Chan Gailey can and will do a good job, and that our draft was solid and I do like their apparent philosophy. But it looks pretty hopeless for the Bills this year and probably next year as well. After that - who knows. Will we fans allow Chan time to get his system fully implemented? Probably not. So really while I think Chan was a good hire, it will probably lead to rebuilding for 2-3 years while being mired in mediocrity if not down right horrible football, fans growing impatient because the system isn't working, Chan being fired, and the process starting all over again as we attempt to switch back to a base 4-3 defense (should be about fully phased back in by then). Oh yea - and then Ralph Wilson dies and the Bills become the Los Angeles Terminators. Pretty much sums up how I feel about the state of the franchise.

 

 

Go back to S. Georgia and use your crying towel there. Don't bother us here with it....please!!

[macaroni]

I hope Trent does win the starting job

 

but then again I also hope ether Fitz or Brian win the job too.... heck I don't even care if the rookie wins the job, just as long as somebody WINS it.

 

My point is .... I hope anybody WINS the job and seperates themself from the rest, rather than OBD deciding the starter by a flip of the coin because they all suck equally.

 

in light of full disclosure, I am a Trent fan .... but I won't have trouble rooting for whichever QB wins the job, nor do I wish failure for any of them to allow Trent to win.

[Adam]

You need both. Who is the last average QB to win a Superbowl?

Jeff Hostetler, Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, Mark Rypien and Brad Johnson are the first ones that spring to mind.........funny, two of those guys beat us in the superbowl

[PDaDdy]

Based on these facts I think Trent will start and play well:

 

In the Nfl if you start and win you get the win, so in Trents case that about evens out based on JP injuries and his. With that:

 

Trent's win vs loses are

5-4 in 2007

7-7 in 2008

2-5 in 2009

 

14-16 career win/lose.

 

Now in those starts he has a career 61.3 completion %.

 

Now flip a coin on the following games that the defense and special teams help lose:

2007 Cleveland

2008 Cleveland

2009 Cleveland and Monday night meltdown NE.

 

I kept the Dallas meltdown a lose, because he threw 3 int's.

 

With these four games he is 18-13 career win/lose and he plays more games.

 

Also with a weak OL you have to Checkdown in this league. Even with playoff teams OL's Rodgers and Ben got put on thier back 87 times and 143 times respectively over the same three years and Fitz was sacked 59 times over the last two years (he has no 2007 stat's) against Trent's career sacks of just 58.

 

Now add Chan's coaching and I think he does well.

 

I know stats are for losers, but is he really a loser or was he in a "No Win" situation and produce well for 3 year guy?

 

 

DUDE! What kind of new math is that? You say "In the Nfl if you start and win you get the win,". The rather obvious obverse to that coin is that if you start and lose you get the LOSS. BUT you go on to try to explain away some of his loses to artificially create some meaningless supposedly winning record? Are you kidding? Stats when used irresponsibly are for losers and you are proving that. You give stats guys like me a bad name when you pull this crap leading people to say stats don't matter. THIS IS WHY SOME PEOPLE DON'T THINK STATS MATTER.

 

Trent is a proven loser and TEAMS get wins and losses!!!! As usual as fans we end up debating the wrong issue. I could care less if we won 10 games AS A TEAM with Trent. The point is we could win even more with a real QB, with a real arm and real balls!!!!