Sean Peyton...what if?

[Gugny]

Great post.

+2

[KD in CA]

What if Tom Cousineau had choosen to have his average career in Buffalo?

[dpberr]

Nothing out of the ordinary...Like staying in coverage lanes.

 

Exactly.

 

I think that period of time, those 16 seconds, changed the franchise for the next decade. The fall of the empire began that day.

[Red]

Thanks for posting, Beerball.

 

Really good excerpt.

 

I think (I'm guessing) Payton was dismissive of Buffalo at least partly because Buffalo wasn't really too interested in Payton.

 

Remember that we had just fired Gregg Williams and Mike Mularkey and the belief was that the Bills would hire a Head Coach with prior Head Coaching experience. As I recall, Jauron and Mike Sherman were the finalists back in 2006.

 

In reading the excerpt it would be hard to believe that Payton would have Buffalo lower on his list than Katrina-ravaged New Orleans…if the Bills were actually considering him. I don't think they were. Thus Payton's comments on Buffalo.

 

The other thought I had while reading the excerpt regards Jerry Jones.

 

Partly because his team beat our beloved Bills twice in Super Bowls, partly because he fired Tom Landry, Gil Brandt, Tex Schramm, partly because of his facelifts and constant preening for the cameras and over-involvement in his football team (the meddlesome owner), I've never really liked the guy.

 

But over the past few years, I've seen where Jones has some redeeming qualities. He's improved greatly as a GM and does a great job of running the Cowboys. Obviously he's an outstanding businessman. Also, I've seen a few moments in the "Hard Knocks" series which put him in an interesting light. And finally, I really love what he told Sean Payton as Payton was walking out the door.

 

I've worked for people like Jones…in fact I'm working for one now. He's an egotist, demanding, drives his people hard, but also, gives credit where it's due, recognizes the talents in people, and lets people do their jobs. He believes in enjoying work and striving for excellence. He's not petty, spiteful, or vindictive. He doesn't hold a grudge. He would not begrudge a man leaving to go elsewhere to seek his own destiny. He would re-hire someone he'd previously fired. He would have greater respect for a man seeking his own greatness than he would a loyal "yes man." He admits his mistakes.

 

On the occasion of George Steinbrenner's passing, it seems like Jones and Steinbrenner are two of a kind.

 

As much as there is to dislike about each man, there is also lots to admire.

 

I agree with this.

 

I too, originally thought Jones was just a donkey of an owner. A real self-righteous SOB, my poop does not stink, lick my boot heels, kind-of-guy.

 

I had him up there w/Davis in Oakland and Snyder here in DC. But he's better than those 2. Heck, even Snyder seems to have finally seen the wizard and gotten a brain- hiring Allen as GM and Shanahan as coach, trading away Campbell to Oakland...getting McNabb and trading for a LT. The 'Skins seem to be getting it together as well.

[Conch]

What if Tom Cousineau had choosen to have his average career in Buffalo?

And all of the gerbil talk about Tom was true!

[Mr. WEO]

Jones also casually tosses out lies about his former coaches.

 

Jones has more in common with Dan Snyder than George Steinbrenner.

SJB posts a thoughtful message and you pump out your typical thoughtless nonsense. Why don't you tell us all why you say he's like Snyder--a guy who has done nothing in this league except spend money.

[NoSaint]

Williams and Mularky will likely never be HCs again. They aren't mentally cut out for it.

 

Payton is a bit of a d-bag, but he did turn around the program in NO. Sure, he had Brees (a QB who was dumped in SD for a rookie), but he got won the SB after a couple of mediocre/crappy seasons. He's aggressive and somewhat of an innovator. Not sure which HC past (20 years) or present would fit that description.

 

 

Williams will if he wants to be. He is enjoying working with his son in new orleans right now, but in a year or two, if the defense plays as well as last year -- dont doubt he will be offered jobs.

 

One of Paytons biggest priorities with a coaching gig was support in getting his guy at qb. It worked, and I think he would have demanded that support wherever he went. He is aggressive, imaginative, and a VERY hard worker. I dont foresee the John Fox comment that someone made, as he has immense support from the city and front office.

[Doc]

SJB posts a thoughtful message and you pump out your typical thoughtless nonsense. Why don't you tell us all why you say he's like Snyder--a guy who has done nothing in this league except spend money.

Snyder spends money like Jones does. Most people would say that Snyder "wants to win" as well. And both owners would be happier if they could outspend everyone. Snyder however didn't inherit the worst team in the league, the Skins weren't the worst team in the league his first year owning them (i.e, getting the 1st overall pick 2 years in a row), and he didn't find someone as idiotic as Mike Lynn to trade with.

[Mr. WEO]

Snyder spends money like Jones does. Most people would say that Snyder "wants to win" as well. And both owners would be happier if they could outspend everyone. Snyder however didn't inherit the worst team in the league, the Skins weren't the worst team in the league his first year owning them (i.e, getting the 1st overall pick 2 years in a row), and he didn't find someone as idiotic as Mike Lynn to trade with.

This is your comeback?? Lame!

 

You think Jones simply wants to outspend everyone else? That would make him happier than he is when winning SBs?? WTF? That's another classic doc borrowed cliche, ignorant of reality.

 

Yet you do seem to go on and make the argument that Snyder and Jones were actually nothing alike. So what point were you struggling to make? Oh yeah, that Jones spends a lot of money on his team (3 SBs, massive new stadium), and is just like Snyder.

[C.Biscuit97]

This is your comeback?? Lame!

 

You think Jones simply wants to outspend everyone else? That would make him happier than he is when winning SBs?? WTF? That's another classic doc borrowed cliche, ignorant of reality.

 

Yet you do seem to go on and make the argument that Snyder and Jones were actually nothing alike. So what point were you struggling to make? Oh yeah, that Jones spends a lot of money on his team (3 SBs, massive new stadium), and is just like Snyder.

 

 

My god. you are the biggest whiner are here. You did realize that before last season, the Cowboys hadn't won a playoff game in a longer time than we had, right? And the franchise is being saved by an UDFA QB. I'm sure that was Jones plan all along.

 

To be a ghood team, you need to get lucky. The Pats and Cowboys got lucky with QBs everyone passed on.

[Doc]

This is your comeback?? Lame!

 

You think Jones simply wants to outspend everyone else? That would make him happier than he is when winning SBs?? WTF? That's another classic doc borrowed cliche, ignorant of reality.

 

Yet you do seem to go on and make the argument that Snyder and Jones were actually nothing alike. So what point were you struggling to make? Oh yeah, that Jones spends a lot of money on his team (3 SBs, massive new stadium), and is just like Snyder.

Nice reading comprehension.

 

No doc, they're the same type of owner and embody what's becoming wrong with the NFL. And the Cowboys have been a .500 club this decade despite all the money Jones spends, while Snyder's teams has been just as bad. As for the SB wins, hell anyone, even Snyder, could have won a SB with the talent the Cowboys amassed thanks to having the 1st pick in each round in 1988 and 1999, plus the 2 extra 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounders they got from the Herschel Walker trade. Jones admitted as much (when he was high on the hooch) the year before he fired Jimmy Johnson, although Jones showed himself when he claimed he was responsible for all of it.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Snyder spends money like Jones does. Most people would say that Snyder "wants to win" as well. And both owners would be happier if they could outspend everyone. Snyder however didn't inherit the worst team in the league, the Skins weren't the worst team in the league his first year owning them (i.e, getting the 1st overall pick 2 years in a row), and he didn't find someone as idiotic as Mike Lynn to trade with.

I originally stated that Jerry Jones and George Steinbrenner were two of a kind.

 

You stated that "Jones has more in common with Dan Snyder than George Steinbrenner."

 

Jones bought the Cowboys when he was 47 years old. In his 21 years as Cowboys owner, they have a winning record and three World Championships.

 

Steinbrenner bought the Yankees when he was 43 years old. In his 37 years as Yankees owner, they have a winning record and 7 World Championships.

 

Daniel Snyder bought the Redskins when he was 34 years old. In his 11 years as Redskins owner, they have a losing record and zero World Championships.

 

Jerry Jones played college football at Arkansas and was co-captain of the Razorbacks 1964 National Championship team.

 

George Steinbrenner played football and was a graduate assistant to the legendary Woody Hayes at Ohio State when they won the 1955 National Championship. Steinbrenner was an assistant coach at Big Ten schools, Northwestern and Purdue.

 

Daniel Snyder never played sports.

 

Jerry Jones made his money in oil and gas exploration.

 

George Steinbrenner made his money in Great Lakes shipping.

 

Daniel Snyder made his money in marketing.

[Mr. WEO]

Nice reading comprehension.

 

No doc, they're the same type of owner and embody what's becoming wrong with the NFL. And the Cowboys have been a .500 club this decade despite all the money Jones spends, while Snyder's teams has been just as bad. As for the SB wins, hell anyone, even Snyder, could have won a SB with the talent the Cowboys amassed thanks to having the 1st pick in each round in 1988 and 1999, plus the 2 extra 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounders they got from the Herschel Walker trade. Jones admitted as much (when he was high on the hooch) the year before he fired Jimmy Johnson, although Jones showed himself when he claimed he was responsible for all of it.

No, you said what you said. You pointed out that, unlike Jones, Snyder didn't inherit the worst team in the league, nor did he make a great trade deal. I agree. Those are a few reasons they are not alike. The others are the SBs and the bold but brilliant hiring of Jimmy Johnson--probably the best x's and o's coach at the time. Also, amassing talent with top draft picks is not an easy task. If simply having top picks were meaningful, Detroit would have the 3 SBs by now. Also, Snyder didn't put down $600+ million of his own money to build his team's stadium. Jones has a big mouth but he is certainly putting his money where his mouth is by risking such a fortune.

 

The Cowboys are above .500 for for the decade (why sample only ten years?--oh, wait, nevermind) and they have been to the playoffs 3 times in thapast 4 years and are looking pretty solid right now. Sure they only won one playoff game, but Jerry would show you his 3 rings if you pointed that out.

 

As SJB points out, your comparison of Snyder and Jones is factually in error. It's simply a poorly thought out comment based on some pop cliche you reached for and betrays your personal bias.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

SJB posts a thoughtful message and you pump out your typical thoughtless nonsense. Why don't you tell us all why you say he's like Snyder--a guy who has done nothing in this league except spend MAKE money.

 

 

There fixed it...

 

"The Redskins remain the most profitable team in the league, posting operating income of $90 million"

 

the full article

[Doc]

No, you said what you said. You pointed out that, unlike Jones, Snyder didn't inherit the worst team in the league, nor did he make a great trade deal. I agree. Those are a few reasons they are not alike. The others are the SBs and the bold but brilliant hiring of Jimmy Johnson--probably the best x's and o's coach at the time. Also, amassing talent with top draft picks is not an easy task. If simply having top picks were meaningful, Detroit would have the 3 SBs by now. Also, Snyder didn't put down $600+ million of his own money to build his team's stadium. Jones has a big mouth but he is certainly putting his money where his mouth is by risking such a fortune.

 

The Cowboys are above .500 for for the decade (why sample only ten years?--oh, wait, nevermind) and they have been to the playoffs 3 times in thapast 4 years and are looking pretty solid right now. Sure they only won one playoff game, but Jerry would show you his 3 rings if you pointed that out.

 

As SJB points out, your comparison of Snyder and Jones is factually in error. It's simply a poorly thought out comment based on some pop cliche you reached for and betrays your personal bias.

Again, oh the irony! You're the epitome of "personal bias" guiding your poorly thought out comments, on a daily basis (I'll get to yet another in another thread). But yes, I don't like him and it has nothing to do with the Cowboys beating the Bills in the SB's, because I freely admit that they were the better team, given their collection of talent.

 

I don't like him or Snyder because, again, they're the same type of owner. Both seemingly "want to win" and spend money hand over fist with little to show for it (outside of Jones' last and only-ever SB era wins back some 15 years ago, again thanks to the 1st overall picks, HW trade, and Jimmy Johnson), while they charge outrageous prices that are squeezing out the average fan, and are looking out for their own interests above that of the league.

 

As for the stadium, a gaudy and unnecessary monument to Jerruh's excess, Snyder paid for the Skins and JKC stadium back in 1999, and word is there are plans in the works for his own version of Jerruhworld. You know, keeping up with the Jones'.

 

And I used the last 10 years because that's how long Snyder has been in the league. The Cowboys are 2 games above .500.

[WWVaBeach]

What if flies didn't have wings?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They'd be walks.

[Pirate Angel]

would the chargers have let Drew Brees be traded within the AFC? Its not so much x's and the o's but the Jim's and the joes.

[Kevin]

What if Scott Norwoods kick was 5 feet to the left?

 

What if Thurman Thomas' helmet wasn't misplaced?

 

What if Lee Harvey Oswald missed?

 

What if it was ruled that Frank Wychek completed a forward pass?

 

What if John McCain was elected as the Republican Candidate instead of George Bush?

 

What if...