Ralph isn't cheap!

[thewildrabbit]

You want me to find links from 9 1/2 years ago all because YOU didn't pay attention to the facts? Not opinions.....look up the term in a dictionary...I didn't say what I thought might've happened...I told you what DID happen...the only speculation I made was that Polian learned from his mistakes.

I never said anything remotely resembling "Bill Polian sucks and Ralph Wilson rules" ...I even mentioned that Ralph gets too involved in some stuff sometimes...point is, Polian started some fights and the fact that he was known for having a bad temper supports those facts...I have a very low tolerance for dishonest people....and only a lowlife coward of a liar falsely accuses someone of saying something they never said from behind a keyboard

Welcome to the ignore list...I don't deal with dishonest little cowards

You ignore me and call me a coward because YOU can't backup anything you say. Sounds like you are the coward, retreating into your world because someone confronted you asking for proof

 

 

The links I posted are from when John Butler was fired, we are talking about the same time period, except I have proof to back up what I say.

 

Fine, ignore me and put your head in sand, it doesn't alter the fact that you spew BS and refuse to back it up.

[gobills123]

Who could argue with that logic? The way you present your facts is impressive. I see so Ralph is cheap because YOU and the people you know say he is and because if he wasn't he'd sign play makers? How profound your reasoning is and the depth of your knowledge is boundless. I can tell you're a natural leader. People gravitate to you and routinely come to you for advice don't they? And you're right, we certainly wouldn't want people like me to represent our fan base, when we have high level executives like yourself to make us shine.

 

In case you didn't pick up on it, the above was practicing for my stand up act. I need you to be in the audience that night, because as a comic, you always need a buffoon to make fun of. You'd be perfect.

 

Look at all the other posts. Your an idiot. If Ralph was not cheap and a good owner like you say, why are we one of only very few teams who havent made the playoffs in the past ten years. Dont quote me but im pretty sure us and the Lions are the only two teams wiithout an appearance in this decade. Because Ralph doesnt provide us with talent or coaches. Watch NFL live, every year all the analysts say on that show is how Ralph doesnt give us any help. And by the way "buffoon"...thats hilarious. Maybe someday you'll become a real comic. You must be a real succesful person to be doing stand up comedy. Haha, all the stand up comedians i know are either drug addicts or people who dont have jobs. Im not guna keep going back and forth with you, wasting my time with a complete moron. Watch nfl live, and read the other posts. Ralph is cheap.

[gobills123]

Who could argue with that logic? The way you present your facts is impressive. I see so Ralph is cheap because YOU and the people you know say he is and because if he wasn't he'd sign play makers? How profound your reasoning is and the depth of your knowledge is boundless. I can tell you're a natural leader. People gravitate to you and routinely come to you for advice don't they? And you're right, we certainly wouldn't want people like me to represent our fan base, when we have high level executives like yourself to make us shine.

 

In case you didn't pick up on it, the above was practicing for my stand up act. I need you to be in the audience that night, because as a comic, you always need a buffoon to make fun of. You'd be perfect.

 

Oh and one last thing. If your a true bills fan you would know this...When Ralph Wilson Jr decided he wanted to buy an nfl team and become a team owner, he first tried to buy a team in miami, and when his offer got rejected, so then decided to buy a team up north. So bascically he didnt want to buy the bills. All you ever hear is how we have the best fans and he wouldnt trade buffalo for any other town. Then why did he try to buy a team in florida? And when we drafted that guy named jim kelly, do you know that he didnt want to play for the bills so he went to I believe either europe or a canadian league, because he just didnt want to play for ralph and the bills. After a few years of the other league, he again got stuck with the bills. Isnt that sad. Doesnt that say something, our franchises best qb of all time didnt even want to play for the bills.

[Doc]

Oh and one last thing. If your a true bills fan you would know this...When Ralph Wilson Jr decided he wanted to buy an nfl team and become a team owner, he first tried to buy a team in miami, and when his offer got rejected, so then decided to buy a team up north. So bascically he didnt want to buy the bills. All you ever hear is how we have the best fans and he wouldnt trade buffalo for any other town. Then why did he try to buy a team in florida? And when we drafted that guy named jim kelly, do you know that he didnt want to play for the bills so he went to I believe either europe or a canadian league, because he just didnt want to play for ralph and the bills. After a few years of the other league, he again got stuck with the bills. Isnt that sad. Doesnt that say something, our franchises best qb of all time didnt even want to play for the bills.

So what if Ralph wanted a team in Miami? If you are married, did you marry the first girl you wanted? If not, do you love your wife any less?

 

And Kelly didn't want to be in Buffalo. Just like most GM's, coaches, and players don't.

[gobills123]

So what if Ralph wanted a team in Miami? If you are married, did you marry the first girl you wanted? If not, do you love your wife any less?

 

And Kelly didn't want to be in Buffalo. Just like most GM's, coaches, and players don't.

 

Im saying that Ralph always says how he knew buffalo would be a perfect place for a franchice, and in his hall of fame speach he said that it was his first choice. When it wasnt his first choice. He got stuck with buffalo, and for many years he was a fantastic owner. He still is a fantastic owner, he is just too old now. He doesnt want to spend money, and doesnt seem to know whats going on anymore.

[gobills123]

So what if Ralph wanted a team in Miami? If you are married, did you marry the first girl you wanted? If not, do you love your wife any less?

 

And Kelly didn't want to be in Buffalo. Just like most GM's, coaches, and players don't.

 

the reasons players and coaches dont want to come to buffalo is because of Ralph. Why do you think shannahan turned us town? And schottenheimer, and cowher, and gruden. Schot, cowher and gruden will all be coaching by 2012 and they could have been coaching this year..with the bills. But they didnt want to, because they know what ralph is all about. Its sad that he is the reason no one wants to come here. Its not the weather, its the owner. We have a lot of talent on this team, and a lot of depth. Its a shame Ralph is forcing players and coaches to reject offers. When is he going to realize he is the absolute reason no one wants to come here.

[Buffalonian-at-Heart]

Look at all the other posts. Your an idiot. If Ralph was not cheap and a good owner like you say, why are we one of only very few teams who havent made the playoffs in the past ten years. Dont quote me but im pretty sure us and the Lions are the only two teams wiithout an appearance in this decade. Because Ralph doesnt provide us with talent or coaches. Watch NFL live, every year all the analysts say on that show is how Ralph doesnt give us any help. And by the way "buffoon"...thats hilarious. Maybe someday you'll become a real comic. You must be a real succesful person to be doing stand up comedy. Haha, all the stand up comedians i know are either drug addicts or people who dont have jobs. Im not guna keep going back and forth with you, wasting my time with a complete moron. Watch nfl live, and read the other posts. Ralph is cheap.

 

I proved all I needed to in our PM's to each other. You're all talk. You may be the most unintelligent person I've engaged in several years. It would be different if you actually had some points to make. But you don't, you just say Ralph is cheap without a shred of evidence. You're also delusional, the overwhelming majority of fans agree with me.

 

Here's the most glaring point that makes you such a joke; You have a theory that Ralph Wilson never has and never will spend enough money on coaches or players to become a viable contender. Yet your screen name is "gobills123". You've convinced yourself Ralph has a conspiracy to trick fans into supporting the team, but will never fully commit to winning, yet you root for the team. YOU ARE SELF ADMITTING HE'S FOOLED YOU. Aren't you at least a little embarrassed to come on a Bills site with the name gobills123, believing the owner will never allow the team to win, fully admitting that you are a living contradiction? You still put your teeth under your pillow and put cookies out for Santa, don't you?

 

Let me predict your response. "Duh, Ralph is cheap duh. Duh, everyone agrees with me."

[gobills123]

I proved all I needed to in our PM's to each other. You're all talk. You may be the most unintelligent person I've engaged in several years. It would be different if you actually had some points to make. But you don't, you just say Ralph is cheap without a shred of evidence. You're also delusional, the overwhelming majority of fans agree with me.

 

Here's the most glaring point that makes you such a joke; You have a theory that Ralph Wilson never has and never will spend enough money on coaches or players to become a viable contender. Yet your screen name is "gobills123". You've convinced yourself Ralph has a conspiracy to trick fans into supporting the team, but will never fully commit to winning, yet you root for the team. YOU ARE SELF ADMITTING HE'S FOOLED YOU. Aren't you at least a little embarrassed to come on a Bills site with the name gobills123, believing the owner will never allow the team to win, fully admitting that you are a living contradiction? You still put your teeth under your pillow and put cookies out for Santa, don't you?

 

Let me predict your response. "Duh, Ralph is cheap duh. Duh, everyone agrees with me."

 

It would be different if I had some points to make. Ok genius, give me your points. Prove that Ralph isnt cheap..why are we one of only two teams to not make the playoffs in this new decade. We are in the same category as the lions.

[gobills123]

I proved all I needed to in our PM's to each other. You're all talk. You may be the most unintelligent person I've engaged in several years. It would be different if you actually had some points to make. But you don't, you just say Ralph is cheap without a shred of evidence. You're also delusional, the overwhelming majority of fans agree with me.

 

Here's the most glaring point that makes you such a joke; You have a theory that Ralph Wilson never has and never will spend enough money on coaches or players to become a viable contender. Yet your screen name is "gobills123". You've convinced yourself Ralph has a conspiracy to trick fans into supporting the team, but will never fully commit to winning, yet you root for the team. YOU ARE SELF ADMITTING HE'S FOOLED YOU. Aren't you at least a little embarrassed to come on a Bills site with the name gobills123, believing the owner will never allow the team to win, fully admitting that you are a living contradiction? You still put your teeth under your pillow and put cookies out for Santa, don't you?

 

Let me predict your response. "Duh, Ralph is cheap duh. Duh, everyone agrees with me."

 

haha and yes i do have a theory that Ralph Wilson never will spend enough money on coaches or players to become a viable contender. That has been proven for the past ten years. Im not embaressed at all to be on here. Im a bigger bills fan than anyone on this site. Thats why Ralph makes me so pissed. I'd die for this team. It really makes me mad that Ralph doesnt care anymore. Give me your points mr smarty pants who does stand up for a living. haha

[Buffalonian-at-Heart]

Oh and one last thing. If your a true bills fan you would know this...When Ralph Wilson Jr decided he wanted to buy an nfl team and become a team owner, he first tried to buy a team in miami, and when his offer got rejected, so then decided to buy a team up north. So bascically he didnt want to buy the bills. All you ever hear is how we have the best fans and he wouldnt trade buffalo for any other town. Then why did he try to buy a team in florida? And when we drafted that guy named jim kelly, do you know that he didnt want to play for the bills so he went to I believe either europe or a canadian league, because he just didnt want to play for ralph and the bills. After a few years of the other league, he again got stuck with the bills. Isnt that sad. Doesnt that say something, our franchises best qb of all time didnt even want to play for the bills.

 

Uh oh, another contradiction. You said you were done going back and forth with me. Looks like once again you don't even believe what you say. Yes, you are a "true Bills fan", rooting for a team you believe can't win.

 

Here's another contradiction of yours. In this post you say he never wanted to be in Buffalo and basically no player has ever wanted to play for Ralph. Yet in a post after this you said "He got stuck with buffalo, and for many years he was a fantastic owner. He still is a fantastic owner, he is just too old now. He doesnt want to spend money, and doesnt seem to know whats going on anymore."

 

Oh my God you're Bi-Polar.

[Buffalonian-at-Heart]

haha and yes i do have a theory that Ralph Wilson never will spend enough money on coaches or players to become a viable contender. That has been proven for the past ten years. Im not embaressed at all to be on here. Im a bigger bills fan than anyone on this site. Thats why Ralph makes me so pissed. I'd die for this team. It really makes me mad that Ralph doesnt care anymore. Give me your points mr smarty pants who does stand up for a living. haha

 

He spent more money than 7 playoff teams last year you ingrate. You should be embarrassed you can't spell embarrassed, even with spell check.

 

You would die for a team, that you believe has an owner that will never allow you to enjoy a winner? How? If I believed that I couldn't.

 

I've said it once and I'll say it again. It would be way more difficult to try and field a team, sign free agents, fire coaches when the fans aren't happy, but do just enough not to win, so you make an extra buck. Than it would be to just win. You're theory just doesn't hold it's weight in water. Maybe it's a defense mechanism you use to still root for the team, but it's way more fun and makes more sense to believe they are trying to win. Ralph has fired coach after coach, after coaching staff after coaching staff, after GM after GM. We sign free agents every year and dole out big money for them. This is the first year in many years we haven't done that. And I for one think we are doing the right thing by stacking players, and building through the draft.

[Doc]

the reasons players and coaches dont want to come to buffalo is because of Ralph. Why do you think shannahan turned us town? And schottenheimer, and cowher, and gruden. Schot, cowher and gruden will all be coaching by 2012 and they could have been coaching this year..with the bills. But they didnt want to, because they know what ralph is all about. Its sad that he is the reason no one wants to come here. Its not the weather, its the owner. We have a lot of talent on this team, and a lot of depth. Its a shame Ralph is forcing players and coaches to reject offers. When is he going to realize he is the absolute reason no one wants to come here.

No, they and/or their families don't want to come to Buffalo because of things like the economy, market, weather, tax situation, etc. Even when the Bills were winning in the 90's, players weren't beating down the Bills' door to play for them.

[Buffalonian-at-Heart]

No, they and/or their families don't want to come to Buffalo because of things like the economy, market, weather, tax situation, etc. Even when the Bills were winning in the 90's, players weren't beating down the Bills' door to play for them.

 

I understand your point, but free agency was a different animal back then too. And we had less holes to fill each year, so we weren't exactly beating down doors to sign guys. We had enough trouble signing our own stars. Guys wanted to come and they did. Paup, Bennett, Lofton. I don't see how the economy would be relevant when it's a free agent signing a big contract. The weather is also another one that can be debated, because of all the other cold weather cities. The tax situation could be a viable deterrent, but I think that's overcome within the contract or a good accountant, and there are two other teams in NY that don't have trouble signing guys.

 

I think players just want to sign where they can win. Some guys sign only where the biggest contract is, but I think most of them sign because the money is there from several teams, then they pick where they think they can win, be in a scheme they like, they like or have a history with the defensive/offensive coordinator, etc. All these type of things come before weather in my opinion.

[Doc]

I understand your point, but free agency was a different animal back then too. And we had less holes to fill each year, so we weren't exactly beating down doors to sign guys. We had enough trouble signing our own stars. Guys wanted to come and they did. Paup, Bennett, Lofton. I don't see how the economy would be relevant when it's a free agent signing a big contract. The weather is also another one that can be debated, because of all the other cold weather cities. The tax situation could be a viable deterrent, but I think that's overcome within the contract or a good accountant, and there are two other teams in NY that don't have trouble signing guys.

 

I think players just want to sign where they can win. Some guys sign only where the biggest contract is, but I think most of them sign because the money is there from several teams, then they pick where they think they can win, be in a scheme they like, they like or have a history with the defensive/offensive coordinator, etc. All these type of things come before weather in my opinion.

I'm not saying it's just weather. It's the combination of things. And I'm not saying players won't come at all. They'll come...if they're given over-market value contracts (like Paup, although he proved to be worth it), have no place else to go (like Lofton, who was considered washed-up in Oakland), or are acquired in trade (like Bennett). But more often than not, players have egos and think they can help a team win. And there are more attractive places to play.

[thewildrabbit]

You realize that Ralph's offer would have made Butler the 5th highest-paid GM, right?

In other posts in this thread I mentioned that Polian was always fighting with Littman and Wilson to to get them to spend money on players and stadium upgrades.

 

I can only imagine that Butler saw what Polian went through and also had to endure some of that himself, so even though the final offer from Wilson might have been somewhat fair, was it worth it to stay in Buffalo or move on to work for a different owner...

 

A quote from that article:

""Wilson's cantankerous ways are well known. But his approach this time was curious, to say the least. With one game remaining in the team's season, in essence he told Butler: "If I can't hire you, I'll fire you." ""

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_ga...s_insider_1220/

 

 

Like I mentioned in another post in this thread, Bill Polian went on to have an good relationship with the owner of the Panthers and Colts, that Colt team has been in the playoffs the last ten years and the SB twice.

 

He was GM of the Carolina Panthers 1994-1996, from inception of a new franchise to the NFC championship game in two years, he left the Panthers and the Colts hired him as GM & President.

 

 

 

 

Honestly, its a damn shame that Mr cantankerous & Polian couldn't work out their differences, think of the twenty+ years of winning that could have been

[JohnC]

No, they and/or their families don't want to come to Buffalo because of things like the economy, market, weather, tax situation, etc. Even when the Bills were winning in the 90's, players weren't beating down the Bills' door to play for them.

 

In the 90s, under Polian, as you stated, the Bills were winning. Polian was very judicious in who he brought in from the outside. For the most part the team which Polian assembled was built through the draft.

 

There is no one formula to winning. Different franchises have different philosophies. What is very evident is that you don't win unless you have competent people making the football decisions. Levy-Jauron-Brandon certainly don't fall within that category.

 

Polian was sent packing by the owner. He has continued to thrive in Indianapolis. AJ Smith was dispatched by the owner. Smith has thrived in San Diego. Since their departures the Buffalo franchise has languished. Over the past decade the Bills have ranked 29 out of 32 for wins.

 

You insist on blaming the economy, market, weather, tax for the embarrassing state of affairs of the Bills. If that is the case why do teams such as Steelers, Packers, Colts, Ravens, Tenn etc perform at a much higher level than we do? Maybe they are just better managed organizations?

 

On a more positive note I believe that Nix is for the first time in a very long time a person in charge of the football operation who has an understanding in how to rehabilitate a very damaged franchise. There is no quick fix; it is going to take some time. Let's hope that the fading owner allows him to do what he needs to do without his nuisance intereference.

[Doc]

In other posts in this thread I mentioned that Polian was always fighting with Littman and Wilson to to get them to spend money on players and stadium upgrades.

 

I can only imagine that Butler saw what Polian went through and also had to endure some of that himself, so even though the final offer from Wilson might have been somewhat fair, was it worth it to stay in Buffalo or move on to work for a different owner...

Maybe. But I don't recall hearing that the Spanos were such joys to work with and that they spent money like water. I think Butler saw an opportunity to rebuild a team with the 1st overall pick, a good cap situation, and a nicer location, like his buddy Polian and the Panthers.

 

A quote from that article:

""Wilson's cantankerous ways are well known. But his approach this time was curious, to say the least. With one game remaining in the team's season, in essence he told Butler: "If I can't hire you, I'll fire you." ""

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_ga...s_insider_1220/

 

 

Like I mentioned in another post in this thread, Bill Polian went on to have an good relationship with the owner of the Panthers and Colts, that Colt team has been in the playoffs the last ten years and the SB twice.

 

He was GM of the Carolina Panthers 1994-1996, from inception of a new franchise to the NFC championship game in two years, he left the Panthers and the Colts hired him as GM & President.

 

 

 

 

Honestly, its a damn shame that Mr cantankerous & Polian couldn't work out their differences, think of the twenty+ years of winning that could have been

As has been mentioned, it's possible that Polian learned to keep his temper under control. I think the circumstances surrounding his departure from the Panthers were suspect, seeing as he was only with them for a few years, unlike his time with the Bills and Colts. And I believe that if the salary cap had been in place sooner, things would have been a lot smoother for both.

[thewildrabbit]

Maybe. But I don't recall hearing that the Spanos were such joys to work with and that they spent money like water. I think Butler saw an opportunity to rebuild a team with the 1st overall pick, a good cap situation, and a nicer location, like his buddy Polian and the Panthers.

 

 

As has been mentioned, it's possible that Polian learned to keep his temper under control. I think the circumstances surrounding his departure from the Panthers were suspect, seeing as he was only with them for a few years, unlike his time with the Bills and Colts. And I believe that if the salary cap had been in place sooner, things would have been a lot smoother for both.

You might be right about all the perks with the Chargers... then again Ralph Wilson has shown that he can't get along with anyone for very long.

 

Bill Polian didn't choose to leave for Carolina, he was fired by Ralph Wilson.

 

""On February 4, 1993, after the Bills had appeared in their 3rd straight Super Bowl, Polian was fired as general manager. Polian wasn't fired because he wasn't doing a good job, he was fired because he didn't get along with treasurer, Jeff Littmann, for reasons unknown to all except those close to owner Wilson, Littmann and Polian himself.""

 

http://www.biographicon.com/view/ot9vb

 

 

How were they suspect? The owner of the Colts realized what Polian could do with a franchise given the fact that Polian built the Buffalo Bills into a powerhouse and that Panther team from inception to the NFC playoffs in TWO YEARS! So Jim Irsay hired him away from Carolina where he was the GM, with a promotion from GM, to the GM / President , basically giving him free reign to run the Indianapolis Colts.

[Doc]

You might be right about all the perks with the Chargers... then again Ralph Wilson has shown that he can't get along with anyone for very long.

 

Bill Polian didn't choose to leave for Carolina, he was fired by Ralph Wilson.

 

""On February 4, 1993, after the Bills had appeared in their 3rd straight Super Bowl, Polian was fired as general manager. Polian wasn't fired because he wasn't doing a good job, he was fired because he didn't get along with treasurer, Jeff Littmann, for reasons unknown to all except those close to owner Wilson, Littmann and Polian himself.""

 

http://www.biographicon.com/view/ot9vb

 

 

How were they suspect? The owner of the Colts realized what Polian could do with a franchise given the fact that Polian built the Buffalo Bills into a powerhouse and that Panther team from inception to the NFC playoffs in TWO YEARS! So Jim Irsay hired him away from Carolina where he was the GM, with a promotion from GM, to the GM / President , basically giving him free reign to run the Indianapolis Colts.

I wasn't saying that Polian left for Carolina: I know Ralph fired him. I was saying that Polian had a chance to build a team from the ground level and Butler had a similar, but not quite as pristine, situation with the Chargers.

[thewildrabbit]

Just to add one more note in this thread about the subject at hand, Ralph isn't cheap!

 

The entire decade of the 70's was lost as the Bills didn't beat the Miami Dolphins once in that entire ten year span, TEN YEARS!

 

Ralph Wilson finally hired a name head coach in Chuck Knox and that man built a bad Buffalo Bills team into a playoff team. Knox took over a team that won 5 games out of the last 28.

 

From an article:

""I was very impressed with the atmosphere in Buffalo. The Bills fans are really great fans. When I first started coaching in Buffalo, they had only sold 18,000 season tickets, and we could not even get a home preseason game because people would not come out to see it. But that changed once we won the division with an 11-5 record in 1981…we were selling the place out and it has been that way ever since.""

http://www.legendschannel.com/chuck-knox-d...-buffalo-bills/

 

 

Anyone care to revisit the reason as to why Chuck Knox didn't stay in Buffalo, let me refresh your memories!

""After a 4-5 strike-shortened season in 1982, Knox failed to come to terms on a new contract with team owner Ralph Wison and left to accept the head coaching position with the Seahawks ""

http://www.biographicon.com/view/7wjz0/Chuck_Knox

 

 

After he left Buffalo, Chuck Knox called Buffalo a "coaches graveyard"...wonder why?

 

You Ralph lovers can visualize the past anyway you like, just get a grip on reality as this owner is his own worst enemy...and ours, the fans.