Ralph isn't cheap!

[Dr. Fong]

How does being middle of the pack in player's salaries prove that he's not cheap? When looking at the organization you have to look at the whole package. Not just what is being spent on players. Is the management structure sufficient to compete in the NFL? Up until recently they didn't even have a real GM. That can't possibly point to a well-run organization and to me indicates that Ralph just wanted to save a paycheck. What is being spent on coaching? Are the facilities adequate? What about training, is enough being spent to boost player performance? There is a lot more that goes into the equation than just player salaries.

[The_Philster]

Do you have any links to back these numbers up? You mention that RW was willing to spend 10M per on Shanahan, but I'm not seeing much to back this up. Even so, let's assume RW did offer 10M, and Shanahan (along with Cowher) turned him down. Why would someone do that? I can only offer that they know the franchise is on thin ice and they need more stability. That's what people who are career minded take into consideration when deciding on a job.

 

RW fired DJ when it became apparent the team was going nowhere again and fan animosity was growing. At the time of the firing, Buffalo was 3-6, had been embarrassed in Tennessee 41-17.

 

When it comes to front office and coaching moves, RW runs the show. And that show has been pretty bad for a long time. This off-season is no different.

I don't generally save links to news stories from months ago...especially ones that were widely reported on...the franchise's future was cited as a major reason Shanahan wouldn't take the job...Cowher wanted Carolina

 

As far as this offseason, Buddy Nix is the GM now....and considering his excellent record in the scouting department and as the Chargers asst. GM, it's a major step in the right direction. Add Doug Whaley into the mix as the asst GM and director of Pro Personnel and we're looking to be in the best shape in regards to the front office since before Polian let his temper get himself fired.

[thewildrabbit]

I will once again make the point that Ralph Wilson, prior to the Polian Era, WAS in fact one of the cheapest owners in pro sports. Now he's just cheap with coaches and throws money around recklessly to marginally talented players.

Anyone care to dispute my post?

 

Interesting reading about how Butler left the Bills

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/12/19/...ain258412.shtml

 

""Butler was reportedly making $500,000 US with the Bills -- a bargain by NFL standards""

 

 

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...80678/20001219/

 

""On the field, the Bills suffered from a porous offensive line, dreadful special teams and an offensive plan that seemed designed to cripple Johnson, the strong-armed quarterback whose inability to get rid of the ball has hurt him week after week.""

Jeez does that sound eerily familiar...Bledsoe...JP...the more things change, the more they stay the same

[Sisyphean Bills]

At this stage in his life, RW has limited his criteria to GM searches as "someone he knows." That's not going to work in the 21st century NFL where a solid GM and HC are absolutely required.

 

And now, when RW went looking for the big name and reportedly big dollars for GM/HC, none of them would come work for him. Ralph doesn't understand that he's the reason this team consistently fails. His poor decisions haunt this organization (firing Polian, firing Butler, hiring TD, hiring Marv, re-signing DJ, Smithers as GM, et al.)

Same as it ever was. When Ralph first started up the franchise, he brought in a buddy from his insurance business to help him run the team. He's a hands-on owner and the Bills are his toy and he wants to play it his way. Nothing wrong with that, but it hasn't translated into building a self-perpetuating machine of success and winning. Flash forward 50 years and he still falls back into the pattern of promoting from within and staying with those he knows and trusts. The Tom Donahoe experiment, where Mr. Wilson let go of the reigns to let an expert run his team, ended in total disaster on many levels and Ralph simply doesn't have the luxury of time at this point.

[birdog1960]

Same as it ever was. When Ralph first started up the franchise, he brought in a buddy from his insurance business to help him run the team. He's a hands-on owner and the Bills are his toy and he wants to play it his way. Nothing wrong with that, but it hasn't translated into building a self-perpetuating machine of success and winning. Flash forward 50 years and he still falls back into the pattern of promoting from within and staying with those he knows and trusts. The Tom Donahoe experiment, where Mr. Wilson let go of the reigns to let an expert run his team, ended in total disaster on many levels and Ralph simply doesn't have the luxury of time at this point.

wilson was, is and will die a loser. in fact, he's one of the biggest losers in NFL history in terms of winning percentage and overall losses. If a player failed as badly in a 2 year career with the bills he'd be mercilessly criticized with almost no one to support him. wilson fails for the better part of 50 years and is defended. go figure.

[Typical TBD Guy]

wilson was, is and will die a loser. in fact, he's one of the biggest losers in NFL history in terms of winning percentage and overall losses. If a player failed as badly in a 2 year career with the bills he'd be mercilessly criticized with almost no one to support him. wilson fails for the better part of 50 years and is defended. go figure.

 

The Buffalo Bills era from 1967-1987 was simply indefensible. Notice how even RW's biggest sycophants conveniently avoid talking about the Bills pre-Polian and focus only on the excuses for the 2000-2010+ era.

[Meathead]

ralph is cheap

 

(i dont really believe this but for the past decade ive been posting those three words just to mock the parrots that do it for real anyway)

[WotAGuy]

"You need to be a smart spender and like I said before Ralph hasn't always been a wise spender. Cut the man some slack though and stop calling him cheap because that is false."

 

 

 

Agreed. Let's stop calling him cheap..........and let's start calling him dumb.

 

 

I'll go start the "Ralph is dumb" thread....be right back....

[birdog1960]

The Buffalo Bills era from 1967-1987 was simply indefensible. Notice how even RW's biggest sycophants conveniently avoid talking about the Bills pre-Polian and focus only on the excuses for the 2000-2010+ era.

I've noticed and even those excuses are lame. bad luck is the best i've heard....bloody awful luck, i'd say.

[nucci]

wilson was, is and will die a loser. in fact, he's one of the biggest losers in NFL history in terms of winning percentage and overall losses. If a player failed as badly in a 2 year career with the bills he'd be mercilessly criticized with almost no one to support him. wilson fails for the better part of 50 years and is defended. go figure.

A successful businessman with his father when he was younger...fought in WWII...invested $25,000.00 for an AFL team in 1959. That same team is now worth between $600M-$700M. Member of the NFL Hall-of-Fame. I wish I could be this big a loser.

[birdog1960]

A successful businessman with his father when he was younger...fought in WWII...invested $25,000.00 for an AFL team in 1959. That same team is now worth between $600M-$700M. Member of the NFL Hall-of-Fame. I wish I could be this big a loser.

if making money was the criteria for success in football then you should be cheering for the microsoft maulers and the berkshire hathaway hedge funders. wins and losses are measured by points scored on the field in the NFL. the rest is irrelevant or at least should be when discussing football success or failure. jamarcus russell made plenty of money playing football. not many consider him a success in the NFL and i doubt he'll ever be considered for the HOF. I guess wilson might be the jamarcus russell of owners.

[C.Biscuit97]

A successful businessman with his father when he was younger...fought in WWII...invested $25,000.00 for an AFL team in 1959. That same team is now worth between $600M-$700M. Member of the NFL Hall-of-Fame. I wish I could be this big a loser.

 

 

 

Yeah, what a loser!!! Birddog>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ralph

[C.Biscuit97]

At this stage in his life, RW has limited his criteria to GM searches as "someone he knows." That's not going to work in the 21st century NFL where a solid GM and HC are absolutely required.

And now, when RW went looking for the big name and reportedly big dollars for GM/HC, none of them would come work for him. Ralph doesn't understand that he's the reason this team consistently fails. His poor decisions haunt this organization (firing Polian, firing Butler, hiring TD, hiring Marv, re-signing DJ, Smithers as GM, et al.)

 

 

Your first point is true but I really put more blame on TD than Wilson for this. TD was the big name on the market and RW did what many fans would have wanted him to do. He gave TD a very good salary and complete control. TD in turn completely screwed up the team in his 5 years. If you are an 85+ year old man who has done will but trusting your gut, your reaction would be to go in a complete opposite direction and hire someone you trust.

 

With our GM opening this year, who did you want the Bills to hire? Some re-trend who had been let go by another organization. If you didn't know Nix's age, no "up and coming" GM could sniff his resume. And when you add a young "up and comer" in Whaley from a great Steeler organization, it seems like it could be a very solid foundation for a front office. Let's hope because I'm so sick of your constant whining.

[nucci]

if making money was the criteria for success in football then you should be cheering for the microsoft maulers and the berkshire hathaway hedge funders. wins and losses are measured by points scored on the field in the NFL. the rest is irrelevant or at least should be when discussing football success or failure. jamarcus russell made plenty of money playing football. not many consider him a success in the NFL and i doubt he'll ever be considered for the HOF. I guess wilson might be the jamarcus russell of owners.

I never said this. I was responding to your quote "wilson was, is and will die a loser."

[birdog1960]

I never said this. I was responding to your quote "wilson was, is and will die a loser."

to me a loser, loses more than he wins. wilson's done this in an overwhelming fashion for 50 years. it's undeniable. the only argument is to muddy the waters with other acheivements tangential to football winning. what would you think of a surgeon who became very wealthy throughout his career even though most of his patients did poorly?

[nucci]

to me a loser, loses more than he wins. wilson's done this in an overwhelming fashion for 50 years. it's undeniable. the only argument is to muddy the waters with other acheivements tangential to football winning. what would you think of a surgeon who became very wealthy throughout his career even though most of his patients did poorly?

So how do you determine if you are a loser or not? Have you won more than you have lost in life? How do you keep score? If you talking only about the Bills W-L record then you are correct. It sounds like you are calling him a loser as a person and that is what I disagree with.

[birdog1960]

So how do you determine if you are a loser or not? Have you won more than you have lost in life? How do you keep score? If you talking only about the Bills W-L record then you are correct. It sounds like you are calling him a loser as a person and that is what I disagree with.

one criteria might be success at your lifes work. if wilson sees that as only a financial question then you're right. if he sees providing a quality product to his customers as a significant part of the equation then i'm right.

[JohnC]

First of all, we't know what his future plans are. The "selling to the highest bidder" theory was debunked a long time ago.

 

Why do you continue to make things up? If you know his future plans then state what they are? When has the "selling to the highest bidder" theory been debunked? If you have the link please show it? If you don't have the reference then stop referring to something that doesn't exist other than your vivid imagination.

[Doc]

Why do you continue to make things up? If you know his future plans then state what they are? When has the "selling to the highest bidder" theory been debunked? If you have the link please show it? If you don't have the reference then stop referring to something that doesn't exist other than your vivid imagination.

And you DO know his future plans?

[JohnC]

Your first point is true but I really put more blame on TD than Wilson for this. TD was the big name on the market and RW did what many fans would have wanted him to do. He gave TD a very good salary and complete control. TD in turn completely screwed up the team in his 5 years. If you are an 85+ year old man who has done will but trusting your gut, your reaction would be to go in a complete opposite direction and hire someone you trust.

 

The Donahoe hire was a reasonable hire. He was a high level staffer coming from a very successful organization. In addition, the market he came from was in many ways similar to the Buffalo market. For whatever reasons, the Donavan reign didn't work out. It was very disappointing. When his contract expired after five years he was let go by the owner. Most people would agree that the organization was in a shambles.

 

Bringing in a person (Marv Levy) who was out of the league for five years other than doing some media work for the Bears in preseason was foolish if not weird. Marv didn't even want that particular job. He wanted to get back into coaching. The ill-equipped Levy stint was a disaster which set this franchise back for years. The reason why the owner hired Marv was because he knew him and was comforatable with him. When Marv left the owner then replaced him with his very talented "marketing" man who also had limited qualification to be in the most critical and difficult position in a NFL organization. The organizational structure was set up so that responsibilities were divided and there was no "strongman" to oversee the football side of the organization. These very bad and outright peculiar descisions were Ralph Wilson decisions.

 

With our GM opening this year, who did you want the Bills to hire? Some re-trend who had been let go by another organization. If you didn't know Nix's age, no "up and coming" GM could sniff his resume. And when you add a young "up and comer" in Whaley from a great Steeler organization, it seems like it could be a very solid foundation for a front office. Let's hope because I'm so sick of your constant whining.

 

Although I disagree with the limited GM search process at least now with Nix we have someone who has an understanding on how to rebuild a very troubled franchise and organization. Buddy Nix has stated that he wants to rebuild primarily through the draft because it is the only way to do it the right way. I agree with his approach.