thewildrabbit Posted August 3, 2010 Posted August 3, 2010 Your basic argument in defense of the owner is that not only does he have faults but there are positive traits which aren't acknowledged by a segment of the fanbase. That is a peculiar position to take for the simple reason that everyone has positive and negative traits. No one is immune from that ambiguity. It is a fact of life. Nothing is ever totally black or white. Ralph Wilson has owned the team for HALF A CENTURY. His record is well established. There was one period of time from the 60s to 80s where the franchise was consistently bad. That is a full GENERATION. We are presently in the NFL designed system of parity. The Bills have been bad for a decade and still counting. Any fair-minded person will acknowlege that the team is years away from respectability. In other words, it is again going to be nearly another GENERATION of mediocrity. Ralph Wilson is nearly 92 years old. He is physically and mentally very frail. That is understandable; that is part of the life cycle. Ralph's record as an owner is already well established. It represents systemic mediocrity. JW, you have this reluctance to hold the most important and influential person in the organization accountable for its performance. I don't have that reluctance. If you want to tip toe around what is obvious to most people that is your prerogative. The Bills are what they are because the owner is who he is. Mr Dithers... I respect and admire what he has accomplished in his lifetime and have come to applaud him for his accomplishments. Yet at the same time... am a very frustrated fan because I realize he will never step up and hire another Chuck Knox when he easily could have this past year, and ended his legacy with a winning team!
Delete This Account Posted August 3, 2010 Posted August 3, 2010 I'm missing your point? I am a Bills' fan. An abused fan. With respect to the Patriots there is no doubt that they have better ownership, coachng staff and front office. Comparing the two organizations is like comparing a Lamborgini to a used and battered Yugo. the point you seem to be missing ... ah, screw it. yugo's get better mileage. jw
Delete This Account Posted August 3, 2010 Posted August 3, 2010 Mr Dithers... I respect and admire what he has accomplished in his lifetime and have come to applaud him for his accomplishments. Yet at the same time... am a very frustrated fan because I realize he will never step up and hire another Chuck Knox when he easily could have this past year, and ended his legacy with a winning team! dualist!! jw
The_Philster Posted August 3, 2010 Posted August 3, 2010 Mr Dithers... I respect and admire what he has accomplished in his lifetime and have come to applaud him for his accomplishments. Yet at the same time... am a very frustrated fan because I realize he will never step up and hire another Chuck Knox when he easily could have this past year, and ended his legacy with a winning team! He was willing to offer Shanahan and Cowher more money than Shanahan received in Washington so saying he will never step up is beyond ignorant
Bob in STL Posted August 3, 2010 Posted August 3, 2010 one criteria might be success at your lifes work. if wilson sees that as only a financial question then you're right. if he sees providing a quality product to his customers as a significant part of the equation then i'm right. So you say Ralph is a loser. Now I say he has been cheap in the past but he is not a loser. I think Ralph has provided a quality product for many years ... not every year mind you, but many years. Sometimes we had losing seasons and we had exciting teams that played hard and were on the rise. Just curious, how do you rate yourself? What is your education? How many big chances have you taken? Did you start a business? Do people rely on you? Do you run any organizations? Written any books? Published any papers? Given speeches at any major universities? Are you responsible for anything significant? Wilson is quite generous with charities, what do you give back? What is you life sum total in accopmlishment? How do stack up against a poineer of the AFL and a NFL HoF'er? Can you give us an honest opinion on how you stack up against him? Just curious.
BillsVet Posted August 3, 2010 Posted August 3, 2010 am a very frustrated fan because I realize he will never step up and hire another Chuck Knox when he easily could have this past year, and ended his legacy with a winning team! Once Donahoe burned him by failing after having the president title, I think RW went into protect mode and has hired only known commodities for GM's as a result. Levy, Brandon, Nix. Still, I don't think Buffalo's respected enough league-wide for anyone with a lot of NFL success as a GM or HC who'll come to Buffalo. And it's the result of hiring guys like Levy, DJ, and promoting Brandon into a role he not surprisingly couldn't handle.
JohnC Posted August 3, 2010 Posted August 3, 2010 Mr Dithers... I respect and admire what he has accomplished in his lifetime and have come to applaud him for his accomplishments. Yet at the same time... am a very frustrated fan because I realize he will never step up and hire another Chuck Knox when he easily could have this past year, and ended his legacy with a winning team! The Chan Gailey hire was a Buddy Nix hire. It was a good hire. Gailey is not a flashy or an inspired pick. He was still a good pick. The challenge for the Bills is to add talent to a relatively dry roster. Getting a recognizable name HC is not what this organization needs the most. What it needs the most is a greater quantity of better players. I have stated before that Shanahan would not have been a good hire for Nix or the owner. Shanahan requires almost total control in personnel decisions. He had, especially in his last few years with Denver, made numerous poor personnel decisions. He is the type of coach who churns through players. The Bills organizational and financial structure wouldn't tolerate such behavior. In Denver, the owner, one of his best friends, fired Shanahan because of his lackluster performances (personnel decisions) in his last few years with the organization. No amount of money offered by the owner would have enticed Shanahan to come to Buffalo. Shanahan was smart enough to realize that he was an ill fit for Buffalo. There is nothing wrong with that. Shanahan is where he should be, Washington, and Gailey is where he should be, in Buffalo.
birdog1960 Posted August 3, 2010 Posted August 3, 2010 Just curious, how do you rate yourself? What is your education? How many big chnaces have you taken? Did you start a business? Do people rely on you? Do you run any organizations? Written any books? Published any papers? Given speeches at any major Universities? Are you responsible for anything significant? Wilson is quite generous with charities, what do you give back? What is you life sum total in accopmlishment? How do stack up against a poineer of the AFL and a NFL HoF'er? Can you give us an honest opinion on how you stack up against him? Just curious. 1. i'll leave that to others 2. 2 post grad degrees and a post doc 3. many 4.yes and it's doing fine. thanks for asking. 5.yes 6. yes 7 no 8.yes 9. yes, adjunct faculty at one 10.yes 11. my time and money 12. don't know a quantitative measure. do you? 13. that's for others to judge. am i worthy to criticize wilson now? how bout your pedigree?
Bob in STL Posted August 3, 2010 Posted August 3, 2010 1. i'll leave that to others2. 2 post grad degrees and a post doc 3. many 4.yes and it's doing fine. thanks for asking. 5.yes 6. yes 7 no 8.yes 9. yes, adjunct faculty at one 10.yes 11. my time and money 12. don't know a quantitative measure. do you? 13. that's for others to judge. am i worthy to criticize wilson now? how bout your pedigree? Very impressive. I am surprised though that a man with your education and background would make a blanket statement that Mr. Wilson is a loser and base it only on his teams won-lost record.
billsfreak Posted August 3, 2010 Posted August 3, 2010 He was willing to offer Shanahan and Cowher more money than Shanahan received in Washington so saying he will never step up is beyond ignorant I always wanted to say this because I have had it thrown my way a few times: LINK?
thewildrabbit Posted August 3, 2010 Posted August 3, 2010 He was willing to offer Shanahan and Cowher more money than Shanahan received in Washington so saying he will never step up is beyond ignorant Prove it!!! You blow so much smoke around and then don't stand by what you post. Show me a link to where anything was written RW was willing to pay any amount to them at all. You call names and then can't back up what you say...
JohnC Posted August 3, 2010 Posted August 3, 2010 Very impressive. I am surprised though that a man with your education and background would make a blanket statement that Mr. Wilson is a loser and base it only on his teams won-lost record. Most of the people who are highly critical of the owner are solely basing it on his stewardship of the franchise. Basing it on the won/lost record is the primary way to make a judgment. How else are you going to do it? Without a doubt the owner over the past half century has been the most influential person in HIS organization. Why shouldn't he be the most responsible for its status? As you are I am impressed with Birdog1960's resume. He is a man of accomplishment and achievement in his own right.
akm0404 Posted August 3, 2010 Posted August 3, 2010 Just curious, how do you rate yourself? What is your education? How many big chances have you taken? Did you start a business? Do people rely on you? Do you run any organizations? Written any books? Published any papers? Given speeches at any major universities? Are you responsible for anything significant? Wilson is quite generous with charities, what do you give back? What is you life sum total in accopmlishment? How do stack up against a poineer of the AFL and a NFL HoF'er? Can you give us an honest opinion on how you stack up against him? Just curious. How is what I do with my life at all relevant to an evaluation of Ralph Wilson's success? Would my status as a gigantic failure make Mr. Wilson's institutionalized failure make him look better? Worse? I don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that when the rocket blows up, the scientist stunk.
birdog1960 Posted August 3, 2010 Posted August 3, 2010 How is what I do with my life at all relevant to an evaluation of Ralph Wilson's success? Would my status as a gigantic failure make Mr. Wilson's institutionalized failure make him look better? Worse? I don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that when the rocket blows up, the scientist stunk. agreed and well put. i've answered similarly before but got lured in this time. the bigger question is "what defines success( a winner)?" and i don't think it's as simple as a bank balance or an award from a group connected to your business.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted August 3, 2010 Posted August 3, 2010 1. i'll leave that to others2. 2 post grad degrees and a post doc 3. many 4.yes and it's doing fine. thanks for asking. 5.yes 6. yes 7 no 8.yes 9. yes, adjunct faculty at one 10.yes 11. my time and money 12. don't know a quantitative measure. do you? 13. that's for others to judge. am i worthy to criticize wilson now? how bout your pedigree? Why do you have a Gordon Setter as your avatar and how do you like your steak cooked?
nucci Posted August 3, 2010 Posted August 3, 2010 I don't agree that he is a loser as a person but there is no arguing the fact that this has been a mostly unsuccessful football team and he is the one making the decisions in that regard.
Bob in STL Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 How is what I do with my life at all relevant to an evaluation of Ralph Wilson's success? Would my status as a gigantic failure make Mr. Wilson's institutionalized failure make him look better? Worse? I don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that when the rocket blows up, the scientist stunk. I will agree that Ralph is 100% responsible and accountable for the performance of his organization. But your example is a bit off. For example recall the case of the space shuttle. When the rocket blows up, maybe someone installed a bad part? Which also goes to show you that there may be more to the story than what appears on the surface.
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 Pops Wilson handed ol Ralphie the cash and the businesses and said... In a Homer Simpson like voice... "SONNNNNNNN!!! Just don't **** it up... that's all I ask of you." I think it was mentioned here earlier in this thread earlier and speaks volumes... Ralphie's always been a "league man". Old AFL stalwart... keep the eight fledgling franchises together. Give bootlegger Sullivan in Boston some money to keep him afloat. Give looney toons in Oakland money to stay upright... (Weekend at Bernie's nowadays). Television contracts, league merger in 1970... become good friends with Lamar Hunt... a league man... he would have made for a great senior level administrator for the NFL. Team ownership has always seemed secondary to the league. Kind of an icing on the cake thing... keep the costs low since the inception of the team... get a bit more spendy from about 1986-1996. Everyone knows the drill, they've seen it. But Ralphie would have made for a much better administrator in the league office than as a team owner.
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