Ralph isn't cheap!

[birdog1960]

more evidence of dishonesty with your ridiculous claim that I hero worship him. Let me just clue you in on something...speaking the truth about someone doesn't mean you worship that person. If you hero worship a person, you ignore their faults...which you even mention that I don't do. Do you even think about what you post or do you not care how ridiculous your posts look?

what happened to questioning my values and integrity?

[Mr. WEO]

Where was Ralph going to put the team (besides Jax)? Gee, how about Indianapolis? Tennessee? Baltimore? Cleveland? Carolina? Houston? You do know that these cities received NFL teams, whether relocated or expansion (it doesn't matter, but nice try) in the past 30 years, right? And what overhead would he have had in those places? His $25K investment in the team wouldn't have changed. They built shiny new stadiums for their new teams and pay for their upkeep, with the owners being charged rent that is a pittance compared to the increase in revenue. What "risk" was there, doc? The answer is: there was none.

 

I know what you're trying to say, and it's "well, since he didn't move, he was never thinking of moving." This sounds like your other poorly crafted argument that since Jones didn't ask Gailey for an interview, it meant he didn't want to and was lying (err, "tossing out a compliment") when he called firing him a mistake.

Wow. Just...wow.

 

What risk?? Are you joking? First, there is a relocation fee (? over $100 million). Then there is the risk that his team would NOT sell out his games and he would NOT clear tens of millions per year. Jax!---hahaha!

 

You really need to review the history of the NFL in the cities you mentioned above. Each situation was unique--they weren't all ready for or looking for a team for 30 years. (WTF??) After that report back to us exactly when Ralph was going to move the team and to where.

 

Was it in the 70's, right after Buffalo built him a brand new stadium? The early nineties, when the Buffalo Bills were stringing together 4 SB appearances? The late nineties, when Buffalo renovated "Ralph Wilson Stadium"? The past deade when he profited at least $200 million from Buffalo's "bad market"?

 

 

And, yes, when people don't do something (such as not inviting someone for an interview) it usually means they didn't want to. Not sure why you're still having trouble with that concept. Maybe you have another reason why he didn't interview CG, but you have yet to share it.

[Doc]

Wow. Just...wow.

 

What risk?? Are you joking? First, there is a relocation fee (? over $100 million). Then there is the risk that his team would NOT sell out his games and he would NOT clear tens of millions per year. Jax!---hahaha!

 

You really need to review the history of the NFL in the cities you mentioned above. Each situation was unique--they weren't all ready for or looking for a team for 30 years. (WTF??) After that report back to us exactly when Ralph was going to move the team and to where.

 

Was it in the 70's, right after Buffalo built him a brand new stadium? The early nineties, when the Buffalo Bills were stringing together 4 SB appearances? The late nineties, when Buffalo renovated "Ralph Wilson Stadium"? The past deade when he profited at least $200 million from Buffalo's "bad market"?

 

 

And, yes, when people don't do something (such as not inviting someone for an interview) it usually means they didn't want to. Not sure why you're still having trouble with that concept. Maybe you have another reason why he didn't interview CG, but you have yet to share it.

What, you think any of the other owners who moved and paid a (much less than the $100M you made up; try $29M) relocation fee, or who set-up new franchises, weren't worried about recouping their money? You think that assurances weren't given to them in the hopes of luring them there? Usually on much higher investments than Ralph's $25K? You think that the stadium being built in 1973 or the SB's in the early 90's would have prevented him from moving? Or that he couldn;t have made substantially more than $200M on his $25K investment the past decade, in a better market? You think that Ralph suddenly became risk-averse? Hey, whatever (poorly constructed, emotionally driven thing) you say.

[Delete This Account]

oh, it must be THAT time of the year again, when the quarter-annual "Ralph is/isn't Cheap" discussion begins, because we're inbetween, pick one: the end of the season/ free agency; coaching firings/hirings; the end of minicamps/start of training camps; monday/tuesday.

 

this is well trod ground in which no one is going to convince anyone of anything differently. trust me, i've tried. and there's no point getting all bunched up over it in frustration by posting one point, only to have it challenged, and then defending said point and then on and on and on and on and on.

 

so, to cut to the chase, and save plenty of time, i will end with this: I respectfully agree to disagree with Mr. WEO.

 

jw

[birdog1960]

oh, it must be THAT time of the year again, when the quarter-annual "Ralph is/isn't Cheap" discussion begins, because we're inbetween, pick one: the end of the season/ free agency; coaching firings/hirings; the end of minicamps/start of training camps; monday/tuesday.

 

this is well trod ground in which no one is going to convince anyone of anything differently. trust me, i've tried. and there's no point getting all bunched up over it in frustration by posting one point, only to have it challenged, and then defending said point and then on and on and on and on and on.

 

so, to cut to the chase, and save plenty of time, i will end with this: I respectfully agree to disagree with Mr. WEO.

 

jw

the topic is fertile ground. plenty of manure, regularly spread by both camps but despite the smell it remains irresistible.

[BillsfaninFl]

where do I tell you what people are thinking? Butler's wife wanting to leave? Everyone paying attention to what was going on knew that...Butler wanting to stick with just the scouting parts of the job? That was documented at the time...there were plenty of aspects of being a GM that Butler pawned off on other people.

 

whose fault is it that you didn't pay attention to everything that went on? Judging by the fact you seem to think Polian did nothing wrong and that Ralph is the anti-Christ, you likely ignored every fact that backed up Ralph's actions

couldn't be a case where he learned from his mistakes in Buffalo, could it? Nah...can't be...Saint Polian never was in the wrong

 

Do you have links to articles for these delusions of yours? Or does the phrase "everyone who was paying attention" attempt to make your comments credible? Nice try, but you fall way short.

[The_Philster]

Do you have links to articles for these delusions of yours? Or does the phrase "everyone who was paying attention" attempt to make your comments credible? Nice try, but you fall way short.

If these were recent happenings, I'd probably be able to find links easily

But when you consider that Polian was fired over a decade and a half ago (long before I even had a computer) and Butler almost 10 years ago, it could take a while to find the links to back up the facts (not delusions but facts, jr)...not worth the time considering people would dispute the info even if it were written in the Bible considering how much hatred some people seem to have for Ralph...I have a lot more valuable uses for my time than that. So if you wanna keep worshipping Polian and thinking Butler had no fault in his firing, have at it if it makes you happy...after all, they do say ignorance is bliss

[Mr. WEO]

What, you think any of the other owners who moved and paid a (much less than the $100M you made up; try $29M) relocation fee, or who set-up new franchises, weren't worried about recouping their money? You think that assurances weren't given to them in the hopes of luring them there? Usually on much higher investments than Ralph's $25K? You think that the stadium being built in 1973 or the SB's in the early 90's would have prevented him from moving? Or that he couldn;t have made substantially more than $200M on his $25K investment the past decade, in a better market? You think that Ralph suddenly became risk-averse? Hey, whatever (poorly constructed, emotionally driven thing) you say.

To the bolded part--the answer obviously is "yes" and "no", respectively.

 

Why on earth would he move after they just built a new stadium?? Most of the owners who left did so because they couldn't get a new stadium. And why would he move at the zenith of his team's existence? This seems reasonable to consider to you? And why would he leave over the past ten years when he has proven there is nothing wrong with the Buffalo market as far as football fans are concerned--it is extremely lucrative.

 

Why would ANY businessman risk an absolute sure thing to end up, potentially, in a situation like Jax? What is the "better market" that would have netted Ralph more money?? In the last 5 years, Ralph has cleared more than most or all of the "new teams" on your list each year.

 

Making things up? A move after a free stadium was built? Perhaps the silliest comment you have made on this topic thus far.

[Doc]

To the bolded part--the answer obviously is "yes" and "no", respectively.

 

Why on earth would he move after they just built a new stadium?? Most of the owners who left did so because they couldn't get a new stadium. And why would he move at the zenith of his team's existence? This seems reasonable to consider to you? And why would he leave over the past ten years when he has proven there is nothing wrong with the Buffalo market as far as football fans are concerned--it is extremely lucrative.

 

Why would ANY businessman risk an absolute sure thing to end up, potentially, in a situation like Jax? What is the "better market" that would have netted Ralph more money?? In the last 5 years, Ralph has cleared more than most or all of the "new teams" on your list each year.

 

Making things up? A move after a free stadium was built? Perhaps the silliest comment you have made on this topic thus far.

Every new/relocation city I mentioned was at least 10 years AFTER the stadium was built. And if you recall, Ralph demanded stadium improvements and club seats be sold, before he'd sign a new lease in 1998.

 

And you were the one that said that the NFL isn't a money-making machine and that ALL the owners are making money hand over fist. So relocating wouldn't exactly be a risk, would it? And if it were, several owners took that risk.

[thewildrabbit]

This post is to dispel the theory and multiple posts that Ralph Wilson is cheap and not committed to winning.

 

To say that Ralph isn't committed to winning is not only the wrong opinion it's a complete fallacy.

I can point to specific times in the history of the Bills in which I can literally prove that the man didn't pay his coach / GM accordingly and you guys conveniently state... oh well, we all knew he was cheap that decade.

 

He still refuses to pay top dollar for a name coach, and from what history has shown us he won't until the fans stop buying tickets. The Bills will continue to lose until Ralph Wilson steps up and hires another great coach/GM.

 

After last season Ralph Wilson or someone at OBD let slip a rumor that the team would pay 10 million a year to hire a top name coach like Bill Cowher or Mike Shanahan, both known great coaches with super bowl wins on their resume.

When the smoke cleared the Bills hired a guy to be the head coach who was fired as a coordinator in his last job, and the offense he coached went 2-14... anyway you spin it, its the cold hard truth.

Finding the best possible GM /head coach for the franchise should always be the primary goal. The question is, did RW find the best possible head coach / GM for the team this time around?

I have doubts about both because the assistant coaches hired lack NFL experience, and the O line basically stayed the same as the one that played horrifically last season.

[birdog1960]

I can point to specific times in the history of the Bills in which I can literally prove that the man didn't pay his coach / GM accordingly and you guys conveniently state... oh well, we all knew he was cheap that decade.

 

He still refuses to pay top dollar for a name coach, and from what history has shown us he won't until the fans stop buying tickets. The Bills will continue to lose until Ralph Wilson steps up and hires another great coach/GM.

 

After last season Ralph Wilson or someone at OBD let slip a rumor that the team would pay 10 million a year to hire a top name coach like Bill Cowher or Mike Shanahan, both known great coaches with super bowl wins on their resume.

When the smoke cleared the Bills hired a guy to be the head coach who was fired as a coordinator in his last job, and the offense he coached went 2-14... anyway you spin it, its the cold hard truth.

Finding the best possible GM /head coach for the franchise should always be the primary goal. The question is, did RW find the best possible head coach / GM for the team this time around?

I have doubts about both because the assistant coaches hired lack NFL experience, and the O line basically stayed the same as the one that played horrifically last season.

exactly. a leopard doesn't change it's spots. even if he tries, people (coaches, gm's, long time fans) don't easily forget the old version... the past matters.

[gobills123]

I can point to specific times in the history of the Bills in which I can literally prove that the man didn't pay his coach / GM accordingly and you guys conveniently state... oh well, we all knew he was cheap that decade.

 

He still refuses to pay top dollar for a name coach, and from what history has shown us he won't until the fans stop buying tickets. The Bills will continue to lose until Ralph Wilson steps up and hires another great coach/GM.

 

After last season Ralph Wilson or someone at OBD let slip a rumor that the team would pay 10 million a year to hire a top name coach like Bill Cowher or Mike Shanahan, both known great coaches with super bowl wins on their resume.

When the smoke cleared the Bills hired a guy to be the head coach who was fired as a coordinator in his last job, and the offense he coached went 2-14... anyway you spin it, its the cold hard truth.

Finding the best possible GM /head coach for the franchise should always be the primary goal. The question is, did RW find the best possible head coach / GM for the team this time around?

I have doubts about both because the assistant coaches hired lack NFL experience, and the O line basically stayed the same as the one that played horrifically last season.

 

You couldnt have said that any better...I dont understand how anyone can say that Ralph isnt cheap

[Mr. WEO]

Every new/relocation city I mentioned was at least 10 years AFTER the stadium was built. And if you recall, Ralph demanded stadium improvements and club seats be sold, before he'd sign a new lease in 1998.

 

And you were the one that said that the NFL isn't a money-making machine and that ALL the owners are making money hand over fist. So relocating wouldn't exactly be a risk, would it? And if it were, several owners took that risk.

The owners that moved wanted new stadiums. Ralph got one. What's hard to understand here? He wanted improvemnets, he got them. Yet you say despite both of these details, he would STILL have moved??

 

As I have pointed out, Ralph saved tens of millions by not moving to the cities you imagine that he would have (somehow) moved to ahead of those who did. Despite this, he STILL would have moved??

 

wow.

[Doc]

The owners that moved wanted new stadiums. Ralph got one. What's hard to understand here? He wanted improvemnets, he got them. Yet you say despite both of these details, he would STILL have moved??

 

As I have pointed out, Ralph saved tens of millions by not moving to the cities you imagine that he would have (somehow) moved to ahead of those who did. Despite this, he STILL would have moved??

 

wow.

Read jw's post (I'm assuming you didn't read it yet), doc. It pretty much says it all.

[Mr. WEO]

Read jw's post (I'm assuming you didn't read it yet), doc. It pretty much says it all.

Read it. jw's checking in to tell us he doesn't want to participate in the debate.

 

Uhhh, ok. Thanks jw.

 

Anyway, doc, I believe I understand your position being that Ralph could have moved the team at any time despite his stadium demands being consistently met and despite consistently outperforming (financially only) the moved/expansion teams you mention. I've heard you. Your logic speaks for itself, as always.

[Doc]

Read it. jw's checking in to tell us he doesn't want to participate in the debate.

 

Uhhh, ok. Thanks jw.

 

Anyway, doc, I believe I understand your position being that Ralph could have moved the team at any time despite his stadium demands being consistently met and despite consistently outperforming (financially only) the moved/expansion teams you mention. I've heard you. Your logic speaks for itself, as always.

Here doc, let me help you understand the other message in jw's post:

 

oh, it must be THAT time of the year again, when the quarter-annual "Ralph is/isn't Cheap" discussion begins, because we're inbetween, pick one: the end of the season/ free agency; coaching firings/hirings; the end of minicamps/start of training camps; monday/tuesday.

 

this is well trod ground in which no one is going to convince anyone of anything differently. trust me, i've tried. and there's no point getting all bunched up over it in frustration by posting one point, only to have it challenged, and then defending said point and then on and on and on and on and on.

 

so, to cut to the chase, and save plenty of time, i will end with this: I respectfully agree to disagree with Mr. WEO.

jw

Now let's see. Who should I (or anyone else not named WEO, for that matter) believe?

[Mr. WEO]

Here doc, let me help you understand the other message in jw's post:

 

 

Now let's see. Who should I (or anyone else not named WEO, for that matter) believe?

So it's best to "agree to disagree". That's OK, given what you've said to this point. Your "beliefs" are well documented.

 

Until the next time!

[Buffalonian-at-Heart]

You couldnt have said that any better...I dont understand how anyone can say that Ralph isnt cheap

 

Now I see what you mean John Wawrow. I've given this guy point after point after point after point, to show my opinion, and he doesn't understand how anyone can say "Ralph isn't cheap". Argghhh, I think admitting you're a youngster has a lot to do with your comprehension.

 

I don't think Ralph is cheap (obviously), but that's my opinion. I have some facts that I believe back up my beliefs. But I can certainly understand the other side of the argument even though I disagree. For anyone to not understand the other side of the debate is just... how can I say? Adolescent.

[Mr. WEO]

Now I see what you mean John Wawrow. I've given this guy point after point after point after point, to show my opinion, and he doesn't understand how anyone can say "Ralph isn't cheap". Argghhh, I think admitting you're a youngster has a lot to do with your comprehension.

 

I don't think Ralph is cheap (obviously), but that's my opinion. I have some facts that I believe back up my beliefs. But I can certainly understand the other side of the argument even though I disagree. For anyone to not understand the other side of the debate is just... how can I say? Adolescent.

For the record, I'm refuting the "Ralph could have moved anytime and made more money" argument. Not the "cheap" stuff.....lol

[thewildrabbit]

Now I see what you mean John Wawrow. I've given this guy point after point after point after point, to show my opinion, and he doesn't understand how anyone can say "Ralph isn't cheap". Argghhh, I think admitting you're a youngster has a lot to do with your comprehension.

 

I don't think Ralph is cheap (obviously), but that's my opinion. I have some facts that I believe back up my beliefs. But I can certainly understand the other side of the argument even though I disagree. For anyone to not understand the other side of the debate is just... how can I say? Adolescent.

I can understand why someone would think the man is not cheap, after all he did throw 6 million dollars at TO, among others. The TO addition did fill the stadium seats and give the fans high expectations for the season. A one year experiment which HC DJ completely sabotaged with his stupidity, by firing his OC and cutting his O linemen two weeks before the season started. As stupid as those moves were, what imbecile was in position above Jauron and allowed those things to transpire, did he have nobody to answer to?

 

Perhaps we should change the topic of this thread to "Ralph isn't bright" because you are correct in the fact that he does spend money, just on the wrong people and for the wrong reasons.

 

Anyone who thinks that Chan Gailey as the Buffalo Bills head coach is going to lead this team to the playoffs anytime soon is just...how can I say? delusional.