When the Wheels Came off in 2009

[Gabe Northern]

In a discussion with Tim Graham, Lee Evans said the debacle of 2009 "started with the Peters thing," but called Walker's release the biggest stunner of them all.

 

I actually think it started with the release of Derrick Dockery.

 

He WAY underperformed his contract. No doubt his signing was one of the reasons John Guy was relieved of his duties. But did he deserve to be cut? Only if you're looking to save money and don't care about roster quality. They owed him less than $5 million in 2009.

 

In 2008 Dockery had 2 miserable games everyone remembers (Miami and NE to end of the season). But the rest of the time, he was an average LG, who typically provided a nice push in the run game. If he simply repeated his 2008 season, he would have been our best lineman for last year at least until Levitre's play picked up at the end. Back in DC, he had another solid season.

 

I regret the signing as I'm sure all of you do. But did you don't get a do-over. The choice was between keeping him or going with Kirk Chambers and Seth McKinney as your interior depth. Some liked the move because of the "message it sent," but what was the message? After refusing to pay Peters and cutting Walker rather than paying $3 M to a back up, the message seemed to be we think we can plug rookies and veteran minimum scrubs in at any position. And that was proven false by the O-line's performance.

 

Cutting Dockery actually compounded the initial mistake of signing him to a $49 million deal in the first place and was the first step down the path towards disaster that was the 2009 season.

[DrDawkinstein]

I regret the signing as I'm sure all of you do. But did you don't get a do-over. The choice was between keeping him or going with Kirk Chambers and Seth McKinney as your interior depth. Some liked the move because of the "message it sent," but what was the message? After refusing to pay Peters and cutting Walker rather than paying $3 M to a back up, the message seemed to be we think we can plug rookies and veteran minimum scrubs in at any position. And that was proven false by the O-line's performance.

 

Cutting Dockery actually compounded the initial mistake of signing him to a $49 million deal in the first place and was the first step down the path towards disaster that was the 2009 season.

 

the message was that the lazy, joke cracking, tv watching attitude and work ethic of Peters, Walker and Dockery would not be tolerated. i remember reading articles that had players talking about how funny those guys were, and how you could always rely on Peters/Dockery for a joke during drills. sounds like they were too busy socializing and being the class clowns.

 

frankly, with all the young talent the Bills added that year, Id rather get those 3 guys away from the rookies before they pick up any bad habits.

[PromoTheRobot]

There are 31 teams that don't win a SB every year. Not every great player gets to play for a great team. Evans isn't the first and won't be the last to play for a loser. But he didn't have to resign with the Bills. No one put a gun to his head. But to say Evans wasted his career is plain wrong. Bills fans will always appreciate and respect what he's done.

 

PTR

[BillsWearPajamas]

Bills fans will always appreciate and respect what he's done.

 

PTR

 

I don't.

 

What exactly has he done to warrant appreciation and respect?

[PromoTheRobot]

I don't.

 

What exactly has he done to warrant appreciation and respect?

He played hard and never put down or shamed himself or Buffalo.

 

PTR

[DrDawkinstein]

He played hard and never put down or shamed himself or Buffalo.

 

PTR

 

besides what he has done on the field (which has been limited by no fault of his own, rather bad QB, bad Line and bad coaching), he handled his contract negotiations as a true professional. he never held out, he never caused trouble. he showed up and worked hard every day and for that he was rewarded.

 

anyone looking to knock evans for anything, must be trying hard to find something to B word about.

 

also, how did this Evans conversation even start? did i miss something? the OP was about Dockery, wasnt it?

[Grimace]

also, how did this Evans conversation even start? did i miss something? the OP was about Dockery, wasnt it?

 

The article that inspired the OP is about how Evans could potentially be an NFL star, but has been on a Bills team kept that from happening. Link in the OP.

[DrDawkinstein]

The article that inspired the OP is about how Evans could potentially be an NFL star, but has been on a Bills team kept that from happening. Link in the OP.

 

ah, i didnt bother clicking through because the quote for this topic was already pulled.

[CodeMonkey]

frankly, with all the young talent the Bills added that year, Id rather get those 3 guys away from the rookies before they pick up any bad habits.

You sound like these guys are 10 years old and not adult professional athletes. This isn't fifth grade you know, they should all be able to be responsible for their own work ethic (or lack thereof).

[DrDawkinstein]

You sound like these guys are 10 years old and not adult professional athletes. This isn't fifth grade you know, they should all be able to be responsible for their own work ethic (or lack thereof).

 

 

agreed, except that in the case of professional athletes, the athletes (students) are getting paid more than their coaches (teachers). and they often feel like they are more important to the team than the coaches are. couple that with the fact that the Bills didnt have strong offensive leadership at the time, and you have a recipe for disaster. if these guys are cracking jokes and fooling around in meetings and drills, then everyone loses. if they are half-assing it, and still starting, what does that say to the rookies?

[CodeMonkey]

if they are half-assing it, and still starting, what does that say to the rookies?

How about "these jerkoffs are ripe for the taking. If I work hard and coach notices I will have their starting position!".

[Gabe Northern]

How about "these jerkoffs are ripe for the taking. If I work hard and coach notices I will have their starting position!".

 

Maybe the drafting of Wood and Levtire would have lit a fire under their butts as well.

 

How would Dockery have performed while being pushed by Levitre for playing time? I have a feeling the potential embarrassment of being benched for a rookie would not have been met with shts and giggles.

[PS 56]

In a discussion with Tim Graham, Lee Evans said the debacle of 2009 "started with the Peters thing," but called Walker's release the biggest stunner of them all.

 

 

I get a kick about how Jason Peter's name always comes up in discussions like this. Truthfully trading Peter's was a smart thing to do. He stunk up his first year at Philly.

 

From ESPN "Also of interest to Bills fans is their former left tackle, three-time Pro Bowler Jason Peters, graded as the worst at his position. Peters, an elite run blocker, struggled against the NFC East's superstar edge rushers, allowing seven sacks and four hurries."

 

Rotoworld considers it a joke that he went to the probowl. http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...1&sport=NFL

 

Over rated, over paid, and a huge pain in the butt. Good riddance.

[dpberr]

The wheels fell off before the bus rolled out of the station. The combination of Jauron's micro-management of the offense, Schoenert's abrupt dismissal and putting a very inexperienced AVP as OC (on the fly) plunged this team into chaos from which it never returned.

 

Injuries just magnified the collapse from epic to cataclysmic.

[DrDawkinstein]

How about "these jerkoffs are ripe for the taking. If I work hard and coach notices I will have their starting position!".

 

sure, it's not the rookie's work ethic that im questioning here. and you would hope that they would respond like that, but the player's have their own little club, separate from coaches and the FO, you never know.

 

Maybe the drafting of Wood and Levtire would have lit a fire under their butts as well.

 

How would Dockery have performed while being pushed by Levitre for playing time? I have a feeling the potential embarrassment of being benched for a rookie would not have been met with shts and giggles.

 

maybe. but im not sure that is what we would have seen. if anything, they would have done the typical overpaid, inflated ego veteran move and sulked and find ways to make little digs in the media, and just become a distraction.

 

in today's league, with today's athlete, 90% of the time you are better off just cutting them loose.

[Gabe Northern]

I get a kick about how Jason Peter's name always comes up in discussions like this. Truthfully trading Peter's was a smart thing to do. He stunk up his first year at Philly.

 

just to be clear: Lee Evans brought him up, not me.

 

My opinion is that it was crazy to trade him without a legit Plan B in place. Not sure if that's what Lee meant or if he was just opposed to it entirely.

[Adam]

You sound like these guys are 10 years old and not adult professional athletes. This isn't fifth grade you know, they should all be able to be responsible for their own work ethic (or lack thereof).

I have been around athletics at every level for 20 years and it just doesn't work that way. Players do influence other players- they are human beings, even at the pro level

[thewildrabbit]

In a discussion with Tim Graham, Lee Evans said the debacle of 2009 "started with the Peters thing," but called Walker's release the biggest stunner of them all.

 

I actually think it started with the release of Derrick Dockery.

 

He WAY underperformed his contract. No doubt his signing was one of the reasons John Guy was relieved of his duties. But did he deserve to be cut? Only if you're looking to save money and don't care about roster quality. They owed him less than $5 million in 2009.

 

In 2008 Dockery had 2 miserable games everyone remembers (Miami and NE to end of the season). But the rest of the time, he was an average LG, who typically provided a nice push in the run game. If he simply repeated his 2008 season, he would have been our best lineman for last year at least until Levitre's play picked up at the end. Back in DC, he had another solid season.

 

I regret the signing as I'm sure all of you do. But did you don't get a do-over. The choice was between keeping him or going with Kirk Chambers and Seth McKinney as your interior depth. Some liked the move because of the "message it sent," but what was the message? After refusing to pay Peters and cutting Walker rather than paying $3 M to a back up, the message seemed to be we think we can plug rookies and veteran minimum scrubs in at any position. And that was proven false by the O-line's performance.

 

Cutting Dockery actually compounded the initial mistake of signing him to a $49 million deal in the first place and was the first step down the path towards disaster that was the 2009 season.

My take is the team went into the tank after Marv Levy retired as GM and wasn't replaced, it gave that moron Jauon more power then he could handle. Everything Marv tried to do to get the Bills to respectability that dufas Jauron went and dismantled.

 

Case in point, when NFL veteran O line coach of 28 years Jim McNally retires, Jauron promotes the assistant under him, and the O line went down hill from there. No concussions the entire time McNally was O line coach, plus the players seemed to lack desire to play for Kugler. The O line coaching just wasn't the same and a good HC would have recognized that fact right away and made a change.

 

A decent GM might have been able to smooth over the problems with Jason Peters instead of trading away the only pro bowler on the line.

 

Not to mention a GM would not have allowed Jauron to cut Dockery at all, or Walker two weeks before the season starts because he couldn't keep up with the "no huddle" offense that they scraped a few weeks later.

 

Steve Fairchild was brought in to implement a high powered passing offense in the mold of the 'greatest show on turf, instead he stunk it up. So when he quit Jauron replaced him with the QB coach who had no business becoming an OC, he should have hired an experienced NFL offensive coordinator instead. I just don't understand this promotion at all, If the guy above him stunk it up then why promote someone to run the exact same offense...

 

Turk Schonert needed to go after that horrifically bad play call in the Jets game in 08, Jauron should have either fired him after that game or at the end of the season, instead of waiting until two weeks before the 09 season starts, simply moronic.

 

Is there any doubt in anyone's mind that Jauron was the biggest problem with this team the last 4 years, bad draft choices, bad coaching hires, bad schemes, bad game plans, mostly bad decisions all around.

 

The thing that bothers me is... nobody above Jauron had the football acumen to understand the problems he was incurring to the team, its as if he had a free reign to do what he pleased with nobody to answer to after Marv stepped down.

[Buftex]

My take is the team went into the tank after Marv Levy retired as GM and wasn't replaced, it gave that moron Jauon more power then he could handle. Everything Marv tried to do to get the Bills to respectability that dufas Jauron went and dismantled.

 

Case in point, when NFL veteran O line coach of 28 years Jim McNally retires, Jauron promotes the assistant under him, and the O line went down hill from there. No concussions the entire time McNally was O line coach, plus the players seemed to lack desire to play for Kugler. The O line coaching just wasn't the same and a good HC would have recognized that fact right away and made a change.

 

A decent GM might have been able to smooth over the problems with Jason Peters instead of trading away the only pro bowler on the line.

 

Not to mention a GM would not have allowed Jauron to cut Dockery at all, or Walker two weeks before the season starts because he couldn't keep up with the "no huddle" offense that they scraped a few weeks later.

 

Steve Fairchild was brought in to implement a high powered passing offense in the mold of the 'greatest show on turf, instead he stunk it up. So when he quit Jauron replaced him with the QB coach who had no business becoming an OC, he should have hired an experienced NFL offensive coordinator instead. I just don't understand this promotion at all, If the guy above him stunk it up then why promote someone to run the exact same offense...

 

Turk Schonert needed to go after that horrifically bad play call in the Jets game in 08, Jauron should have either fired him after that game or at the end of the season, instead of waiting until two weeks before the 09 season starts, simply moronic.

 

Is there any doubt in anyone's mind that Jauron was the biggest problem with this team the last 4 years, bad draft choices, bad coaching hires, bad schemes, bad game plans, mostly bad decisions all around.

 

The thing that bothers me is... nobody above Jauron had the football acumen to understand the problems he was incurring to the team, its as if he had a free reign to do what he pleased with nobody to answer to after Marv stepped down.

 

 

I love Marv Levy as much as anyone else here...but his hiring as GM was the ulitimate wheel falling off the wagon, and the Bills still haven't recovered. I realize, he was more of a figurehead than an actual GM, but he was the impetus behind some horrid drafts, and a horrid head coach hiring. In all fairness to him, I think he knew he was in over his head...so, he stepped down...the Bills didn't really replace him, and the franchise, in effect, went three years without a "football management" type , running the show.

[Thurman#1]

the message was that the lazy, joke cracking, tv watching attitude and work ethic of Peters, Walker and Dockery would not be tolerated. i remember reading articles that had players talking about how funny those guys were, and how you could always rely on Peters/Dockery for a joke during drills. sounds like they were too busy socializing and being the class clowns.

 

frankly, with all the young talent the Bills added that year, Id rather get those 3 guys away from the rookies before they pick up any bad habits.

 

 

 

Re: all the jokes made by Peters, Dockery and Walker during drills, LINKY?

 

First time we've heard about this. Royal was the guy who was famous for joking, and it came in the locker room, and was never considered harmful.

 

The word on Peters certainly wasn't that he was a joker, just the opposite in fact. Levy called him a sourpuss. LINK?