The American Dream

[....lybob]

And I'm willing to bet there are a hundred fold more companies that would rather talk to you in person or at least over the phone. I need to see and hear my candidates before I would even consider them. There are so many phoney resumes out there.

 

You might be right or it may depend on the field- I don't think they were hiring anyone on the internet just using it as a screening device- if you are lucky or good enough to receive a call back you are going to have to get through 2-3 interviews before you are hired - 12 years ago it was my experience that you could call and get an interview setup- this year they seem paper adverse, phone adverse, maybe even conversation adverse (presentation yes, dialog no)- one of the organizations I had visited on computer a couple weeks before and couldn't make the fill in the blank part of there pdf application work so I asked if I could just copy the application, fill it out and either bring it back or send through the mail- the lady said yeah a lot of people have that trouble but we don't take applications through the mail, try different browsers and make sure your adobe reader and flash are the latest.

[DC Tom]

And I'm willing to bet there are a hundred fold more companies that would rather talk to you in person or at least over the phone. I need to see and hear my candidates before I would even consider them. There are so many phoney resumes out there.

 

Generally, companies in my industry won't even talk to you if you cold-call them or walk in; you have to send a resume first (lots of companies will specify flat-out "no calls" - FINRA jumps to mind most immediately.)

 

And I have had some make offers to me without a face-to-face interview (some without a phone screen, even). I invariably tell them to take a hike; companies that do that tend to be very stupidly managed. I don't think I've ever had a good job without a phone screen and two face-to-face meetings first. But everyone pre-screens with resumes first.

[....lybob]

Generally, companies in my industry won't even talk to you if you cold-call them or walk in; you have to send a resume first (lots of companies will specify flat-out "no calls" - FINRA jumps to mind most immediately.)

 

And I have had some make offers to me without a face-to-face interview (some without a phone screen, even). I invariably tell them to take a hike; companies that do that tend to be very stupidly managed. I don't think I've ever had a good job without a phone screen and two face-to-face meetings first. But everyone pre-screens with resumes first.

 

This what I saw except they didn't want paper, they wanted everything online.

[ExiledInIllinois]

The whole higher education system has to rethought- there is a trend where the rate of return for a college education has been shrinking and for some degrees has gone negative, any parent and student should think hard about investing $40,000-$100,000+ dollars . I don't think the every child must go to college model is applicable anymore, some should go to college, some should learn a trade, some should work and get a college degree online, some should try a small business where succeed or fail they are going to learn as much as any college.

 

 

...And many of the masses should work in a factory/non-service industry making good money as to support a family on a decent wage.

 

Gotta rethink that... There is a "war" on that kinda thinking.

[3rdnlng]

 

...And many of the masses should work in a factory/non-service industry making good money as to support a family on a decent wage.

 

Gotta rethink that... There is a "war" on that kinda thinking.

 

Well, factory jobs tend to be shrinking. I wonder if this country's and specific non-friendly to business states tax policies have anything to do with this?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Get a trade. Always have work. Lots of opportunity to work for cash. That way, you can keep it instead of the government confiscating it

 

 

I wish I'd done this, to be honest. By now I'd be rolling in it as a master electrician or plumber. College is a waste of time for most people.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I wish I'd done this, to be honest. By now I'd be rolling in it as a master electrician or plumber. College is a waste of time for most people.

How many master electricians and plumbers does society need? My point is that we still need to be producing soomething that the masses can work and get compensated nicely so they can have those trades plumb their houses.

 

The war is on labor and people making a nice buck. It is race to the bottom. We are starting to see the results and unbalancing act.

[/dev/null]

How many master electricians and plumbers does society need? My point is that we still need to be producing soomething that the masses can work and get compensated nicely so they can have those trades plumb their houses.

 

I don't know how many master electricians and plumbers society needs. But currently there are not enough.

Which I think was the point he was trying to make

[birdog1960]

The whole higher education system has to rethought- there is a trend where the rate of return for a college education has been shrinking and for some degrees has gone negative, any parent and student should think hard about investing $40,000-$100,000+ dollars . I don't think the every child must go to college model is applicable anymore, some should go to college, some should learn a trade, some should work and get a college degree online, some should try a small business where succeed or fail they are going to learn as much as any college.

more like $100-200k with most of the good roi schools in the $180-200 range. www.payscale has the list. they did an analysis for investing the money for college vs in the S&P 500 over the last 30 years (including the last terrible decade) and a majority of private schools and a large majority of public schools lost to the market. some of the decreased roi is do to schools with low graduation rates. this would suggest that open admission schools are a bad idea. but, this story really isn't about this one kid or the shrinking value of value of an undergrad degree to me. it's about the generally sorry state of our economy. upper middle class, privileged kids like this one really aren't much different from their predecessors in multiple earlier generations. what's different is the American economy. whether it's good or bad that his sense of entitlement goes unfullfilled is irrelevant. what is relevant is that he represents the canary in the coal mine and whether this new economy is temporary or permanent.

[Dante]

I wish I'd done this, to be honest. By now I'd be rolling in it as a master electrician or plumber. College is a waste of time for most people.

I think about this a lot. We were brought up to think going to University was the only way to go. Learning a trade was never an option. How dumb. I know a fair amount of tradesmen and like everyone else, things aren't as great as they were a few years ago. But stuff still breaks, and people need it fixed. Whether its something that has to be welded, repainted, rewired and so on. Also, in rough times people repair instead of buying new. A couple are only limited by how many hours they want to work. I dont think you will never go hungry if you have a trade. Someone somewhere can use you. I have a friend out of Louisiana who is a welder and he goes on these 2 month long work excursions at refineries for the most part. He comes back off these work trips with huge bucks. Not for everyone as he works 7 days a week and I think most days 12 hours. There is a mandatory rest day at some point cant remember when that is. Anyway, point is there are options when you have a skill and are in demand. Can't say as much for executives and administrative types. They are the first to go when it gets tough and what do they do when no companies are hiring for high priced positions?

[ExiledInIllinois]

I think about this a lot. We were brought up to think going to University was the only way to go. Learning a trade was never an option. How dumb. I know a fair amount of tradesmen and like everyone else, things aren't as great as they were a few years ago. But stuff still breaks, and people need it fixed. Whether its something that has to be welded, repainted, rewired and so on. Also, in rough times people repair instead of buying new. A couple are only limited by how many hours they want to work. I dont think you will never go hungry if you have a trade. Someone somewhere can use you. I have a friend out of Louisiana who is a welder and he goes on these 2 month long work excursions at refineries for the most part. He comes back off these work trips with huge bucks. Not for everyone as he works 7 days a week and I think most days 12 hours. There is a mandatory rest day at some point cant remember when that is. Anyway, point is there are options when you have a skill and are in demand. Can't say as much for executives and administrative types. They are the first to go when it gets tough and what do they do when no companies are hiring for high priced positions?

 

The shift was in the 1970's and 1980's from trades to college prep.

[Jim in Anchorage]

How many master electricians and plumbers does society need? My point is that we still need to be producing soomething that the masses can work and get compensated nicely so they can have those trades plumb their houses.

 

The war is on labor and people making a nice buck. It is race to the bottom. We are starting to see the results and unbalancing act.

This coming from a guy who counts carp for a living. Who would hire you if you got laid off tomorrow? Oh thats right you work for the Gov't and can't get laid off

[....lybob]

This coming from a guy who counts carp for a living. Who would hire you if you got laid off tomorrow? Oh thats right you work for the Gov't and can't get laid off

 

count carp for a living? I thought people on this board just carp for a living period.

[ExiledInIllinois]

This coming from a guy who counts carp for a living. Who would hire you if you got laid off tomorrow? Oh thats right you work for the Gov't and can't get laid off

 

I can very easily get laid off. I went through a RIF in the first years when I started out with the gov't. I got almost 20 years in and counting. Don't be so bitter, your stereotypes don't fit.

[Jim in Anchorage]

I can very easily get laid off. I went through a RIF in the first years when I started out with the gov't. I got almost 20 years in and counting. Don't be so bitter, your stereotypes don't fit.

So your 20 years are a guaranteed life time job. Got news for ya in in private industry "years of service" add up to ca-ca .Produce today or there's the door.

[ExiledInIllinois]

So your 20 years are a guaranteed life time job. Got news for ya in in private industry "years of service" add up to ca-ca .Produce today or there's the door.

 

I understand that. That is why some people seek lower pay with the gov't and more job stability. It of course is a tradeoff.

 

Now if I can just get them to stop taxing me, seeing how I subsidize my own job with my own taxes... Hey, they are tax exempt when purchasing materials... Why not labor? That would really piss you guys off. So am I really paying mine and other's wages? Of course Jim, when it comes to YOUR taxes and the general fund... It goes elsewhere. Does that make you feel better?

 

EDIT: I am being sarcastic... I love subsidizing my own job.

[Jim in Anchorage]

I understand that. That is why some people seek lower pay with the gov't and more job stability. It of course is a tradeoff.

 

Now if I can just get them to stop taxing me, seeing how I subsidize my own job with my own taxes... Hey, they are tax exempt when purchasing materials... Why not labor? That would really piss you guys off. So am I really paying mine and other's wages? Of course Jim, when it comes to YOUR taxes and the general fund... It goes elsewhere. Does that make you feel better?

 

EDIT: I am being sarcastic... I love subsidizing my own job.

I pay tax's for defense of the country. That is all the Feds need to hit me for. Every thing else, including the sweetheart job you often brag about, should be be privatized. I think you would be lucky to pull $10 a hour.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I pay tax's for defense of the country. That is all the Feds need to hit me for. Every thing else, including the sweetheart job you often brag about, should be be privatized. I think you would be lucky to pull $10 a hour.

 

Maybe your are right... It can be contracted, yet... Industry (commercial cargo) DEMANDS that it stay in federal operation (in-house). Really. Chicago lock (not much commercial cargo) is under contract and privatized and workers there pull in over 20 bucks an hour. It isn't a sweetheart job by no means and not for everybody. I wish I had a cushy job.

 

Anway, federal waterways have everything to do with national defense. I can tell you what goes through, but loose lips sink ships.

[IDBillzFan]

I understand that. That is why some people seek lower pay with the gov't and more job stability. It of course is a tradeoff.

Lower pay with the government? Really? Have you not been paying attention? When you include bennies, it's not even a fair race. Government pay crushes the private sector.

[stuckincincy]

....the upper middle class:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/07/business...ream&st=cse

 

Among the gems:

 

“Scott has got to find somebody who knows someone,” the grandfather said, “someone who can get him to the head of the line.”

 

About the young man's dad:

 

"He joined one of those companies — owned by the family of his friend — and he has stayed in manufacturing, particularly at companies that make hand tools."

 

Yet based on their descriptions (a retired stockbroker and plant GM respectively) I'd bet dollars to donuts dad and grandpa winge about how the poor and minorities just need to "suck it up" and "work harder" to succeed, "just like they did". I understand that this is the way the world works, but the hypocrisy is what galls me.

 

Don't just read the article, check out the comments, too. Some of them are priceless. I especially liked number 19.....

 

 

The "American Dream" is working out quite nicely for some. Why bother to better yourself? Why go to college?

 

Walter William's column, Where Best To Be Poor, 6/30/10:

 

 

http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/wew/articles/10...estToBePoor.htm

 

 

 

It's inexorable.