Poor TO

[Nanker]

I think he'd rather make crappy reality shows than sign for less. Also we would be retarding the growth of our young WR's. Like it or not those guys are going to slow down as the years go by. Its time to throw those guys in the deep end and see who survives.

 

T.O is starting to end up like Milton from Office Space. He doesn't know he's done....and no one wants to tell him and everyone is just hoping he'll go away.

So, if you could go pack up your stuff and move it down there...

[Mr. WEO]

As I showed above doc, TO got less than a pass and a half more throws per game, not the "majority of passes" that you made up. And with all the drops by TO, you'd think that Evans would have out-received him. Didn't happen. Not to mention TO had a higher YPC average (obviously because all the passes were being thrown to him).

 

Beyond that, the Bills passed the ball the 2nd fewest times in the NFL last year. As a fr'instane, they passed it over a 100 times fewer than the Cowboys did in 2008, when TO was targeted 139 times. Multiplying 139 by his 2009 52.4% catch rate, you get 73 catches, times 15.1 YPC is 1,102 yards.

 

So you see, the Bills had a lousy offensive scheme and lousy QB'ing, something you'd have to agree with, since you say "it's all about the QB." But carry-on with your TO fetish.

Sorry, the "plurality of passes". Better?

 

Bottom line, as I pointed out long ago: without TO, Bills passed for 3302 yards in '08. Evans had 1017, Reed 597 and Parrish 232. Royal had 351. With TO in '09, 2789 yards passing TO 829, Evans 612, Reed 291, Roscoe 34. Evans Reed and Parrish saw their numbers shifted to TO. Net result, overall passing game was worse in '09.

 

Fetish, huh? I just thought the article was funny as it validates what many have always felt about TO. You actually pine for the guy still.

[Grimace]

link

 

He spends half the article saying that NFL teams have no problem with his character, yet blames the media for his unemployment--because they disparage his character.

 

He's not very bright.

 

There is some truth to be taken from what he said that explains the contradiction you mention here.

 

Suppose TO's NFL career started 3 years ago, and all the antics that earned his reputation happened in another league far away from the media. His team and locker room presence of those 3 years would not make him a team captain, but it would not be enough to earn him descriptions like "cancer". At the same time, his production from that period would earn him a roster spot on a lot of teams looking for one more weapon at WR to make a playoff run.

 

Back to reality. He had years of major team controversy, and that reputation will hover over his head for the rest of his days. The added media attention from his reputation makes minor issues out of nothing, and major issues out of minor things. This black mark appears to be tipping the scales so that teams do not want to sign him.

 

His defense is that his recent character would not be an issue with a team, but the media hype about his character creates the problem.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

There is some truth to be taken from what he said that explains the contradiction you mention here.

 

Suppose TO's NFL career started 3 years ago, and all the antics that earned his reputation happened in another league far away from the media. His team and locker room presence of those 3 years would not make him a team captain, but it would not be enough to earn him descriptions like "cancer". At the same time, his production from that period would earn him a roster spot on a lot of teams looking for one more weapon at WR to make a playoff run.

 

Back to reality. He had years of major team controversy, and that reputation will hover over his head for the rest of his days. The added media attention from his reputation makes minor issues out of nothing, and major issues out of minor things. This black mark appears to be tipping the scales so that teams do not want to sign him.

 

His defense is that his recent character would not be an issue with a team, but the media hype about his character creates the problem.

 

you reap what you sow.

[Mr. WEO]

Suppose TO's NFL career started 3 years ago, and all the antics that earned his reputation happened in another league far away from the media.

 

You mean the NHL?

 

His defense is that his recent character would not be an issue with a team, but the media hype about his character creates the problem.

I'm not buying this. Look, he can't claim on one hand that owners in the league know he actually is of good character, and at the same time balme the media for negatively influencing those same owners about his character. Besides, these teams aren't avoiding signing TO because of what they read in the papers--come on! If they thought he had value (like Ralph hoped last year), they would pick him up in a second. In fact, there was so little to talk about regarding TOs antics last season, every team is passing on him because of what they saw on the field compared (his value) compared to his ridiculous asking price.

 

He's totally deluded as to his actual situation.

[BuffaloBill]

I can't find the article but there was an something written quaoting a couple of GM's around mid-season - they said TO's skills were clearly diminished and that he was slow. The guy wants #1 receiver money and at this point in his career he may only be a #2 or 3.

[BillsPhan]

If only he'd just killed dogs...

 

Very good!

[Doc]

Sorry, the "plurality of passes". Better?

 

Bottom line, as I pointed out long ago: without TO, Bills passed for 3302 yards in '08. Evans had 1017, Reed 597 and Parrish 232. Royal had 351. With TO in '09, 2789 yards passing TO 829, Evans 612, Reed 291, Roscoe 34. Evans Reed and Parrish saw their numbers shifted to TO. Net result, overall passing game was worse in '09.

 

Fetish, huh? I just thought the article was funny as it validates what many have always felt about TO. You actually pine for the guy still.

TO got more passes thrown to him. Why do you suppose this is?

 

And as I pointed out to you long ago, when you fire your OC and LT just before the season starts, not to mention have up to 4 rookie or first-time starters on your O-line, you won't do well no matter what. And those had nothing to do with TO.

[milehiLou]

re-sign him, just kidding

[Maryland#1BillsFan]

link

 

He spends half the article saying that NFL teams have no problem with his character, yet blames the media for his unemployment--because they disparage his character.

 

He's not very bright.

 

 

 

TO's not poor!!!

[buffaloaggie]

I have always been a T.O. defender, and I have always though the media coverage didnt match up with the real thing. But as an outspoken black jerk wide receiver in the spotlight, you'll have that.

 

I am surprised that some teams havent picked him up. I would have resigned him for less.

fixed

 

T.O., I believe, has been humbled, in as much as he can be humbled. He didn't act up last year, and knows he won't get anything more than a one year deal from another NFL team. That's the only way they'll be sure that he behaves.

 

And honestly, nobody running the offense last year knew what they were doing, coupled with the fact that almost everyone on the OL was inexperienced and/or hurt, would tend to lead to poorer numbers (not to mention our QB crises). To point to T.O. and say we were worse with him than without him, ignoring the many other variables, is a pretty lame argument.

[Mr. WEO]

TO got more passes thrown to him. Why do you suppose this is?

 

And as I pointed out to you long ago, when you fire your OC and LT just before the season starts, not to mention have up to 4 rookie or first-time starters on your O-line, you won't do well no matter what. And those had nothing to do with TO.

Yes, firing the awful OC (from '08) and releasing the "starting LT"--who was actually the erstwhile RT--had nothing to do with TO.

 

However, my origianl argument was that, knowing all that, the much ballyhooed hiring of TO (and all of the great happenings that were going to happen as a result) came to nothing. He came and went and didn't make a dent. No spin can change this.

[Rob's House]

Sorry, the "plurality of passes". Better?

 

Bottom line, as I pointed out long ago: without TO, Bills passed for 3302 yards in '08. Evans had 1017, Reed 597 and Parrish 232. Royal had 351. With TO in '09, 2789 yards passing TO 829, Evans 612, Reed 291, Roscoe 34. Evans Reed and Parrish saw their numbers shifted to TO. Net result, overall passing game was worse in '09.

 

Fetish, huh? I just thought the article was funny as it validates what many have always felt about TO. You actually pine for the guy still.

 

Excellent point, because the only thing that changed between those two seasons was the addition of TO.

 

However, my origianl argument was that, knowing all that, the much ballyhooed hiring of TO (and all of the great happenings that were going to happen as a result) came to nothing. He came and went and didn't make a dent. No spin can change this

 

Another great point, after all, Oakland still sucked with Randy Moss proving once and for all that he was a washed up nobody.

[Mr. WEO]

Excellent point, because the only thing that changed between those two seasons was the addition of TO.

Neither offense was any good, for many reasons others have listed.

 

However, given the output they no doubt dissected to the tiniest detail, Nix and CG obviously didn't see any value in keeping TO.

[Beebe's Kid]

Neither offense was any good, for many reasons others have listed.

 

However, given the output they no doubt dissected to the tiniest detail, Nix and CG obviously didn't see any value in keeping TO.

TO is a locker room cancer. Take this thread as an example... he has a polarizing personality. I like TO, and thought he was great, on some other team... People either love him or hate him, and that is a problem in a locker room....especially when your QB usually ends up hating him.

[Mr. WEO]

Excellent point, because the only thing that changed between those two seasons was the addition of TO.

 

 

Another great point, after all, Oakland still sucked with Randy Moss proving once and for all that he was a washed up nobody.

 

Nope. Obviously it didn't prove that at all. Moss was clearly dogging it in Oakland. Also, he was in the middle of his career, not at the tail end. If you are saying that TO was similarly dogging it in Buff, I might otherwise agree with your comparison. But I'm betting that's not what you're saying about TO, so the comparison isn't valid.

[Doc]

Excellent point, because the only thing that changed between those two seasons was the addition of TO.

That's what he's saying, with the conclusion being that TO was the cause of all the problems. What a shocker there!

 

Or maybe he predicted the Bills would fire Schonert and cut Walker right before the season started? Hey doc, what are the Poweball numbers for this Saturday?

 

Another great point, after all, Oakland still sucked with Randy Moss proving once and for all that he was a washed up nobody.

"Somebody caught all those passes" after Moss left Oakland. I guess doc's got something there! Looks like teams are foolish to spend big money on WR's because anybody can catch passes.

[Mr. WEO]

That's what he's saying, with the conclusion being that TO was the cause of all the problems. What a shocker there!

 

Or maybe he predicted the Bills would fire Schonert and cut Walker right before the season started? Hey doc, what are the Poweball numbers for this Saturday?

No, never said TO was "the cause of all the problems". You simply made that up--"what a shocker there!". This is what you do. My point was clear--TO=no impact for the money and hype. You have chosen not to directly dispute this.

 

Wow, the old Powerball line again, eh? As for Schonert--we've been over this. He was the architect of a crappy offense the prior year. And Walker was an insanely overpaid RT who absolutely hated the idea of having to play LT. So stop spinning.

 

 

 

"Somebody caught all those passes" after Moss left Oakland. I guess doc's got something there! Looks like teams are foolish to spend big money on WR's because anybody can catch passes.

Actually, after Moss left, the Raiders had nearly the exact same number of catches/yards the next season, so yes, we are correct--someone else caught that crappy amount of passes (the great Ron Curry filled in nicely). However, the year prior, before Moss put on the dog, the passing game had 1000 yards more and 50 more catches. So Moss could simply turn it on or off, as he wished. TO did no such thing in Buff. His year was akin to Moss's "I don't want to play hard for this team year".

 

The other difference which even you can't deny, is that at least one other team was willing to trade for Moss--even after he blatanly dogged it. TO, on the other hand, got a sniff from Cincy and is now reduced to crying to the press about......the press.

[Rob's House]

Wow, the old Powerball line again, eh? As for Schonert--we've been over this. He was the architect of a crappy offense the prior year. And Walker was an insanely overpaid RT who absolutely hated the idea of having to play LT. So stop spinning.

 

I get what you're saying, Schonert was the OC the previous year. But since Schonert wasn't there last year, what's your point?

[Doc]

No, never said TO was "the cause of all the problems". You simply made that up--"what a shocker there!". This is what you do. My point was clear--TO=no impact for the money and hype. You have chosen not to directly dispute this.

 

Wow, the old Powerball line again, eh? As for Schonert--we've been over this. He was the architect of a crappy offense the prior year. And Walker was an insanely overpaid RT who absolutely hated the idea of having to play LT. So stop spinning.

Sure TO had an impact. What planet have you been living on? He led the team in receiving and he actually made the Bills relevant last year, if not helped portray Buffalo in a better light (and goodness knows, Buffalo needs it!). For that alone he was well worth the $6.5M. You have chosen not to directly dispute these things. Oh wait, you feebly attempted with the "someone had to catch those passes" and "the Bills were relevant until TO wasn't relevant on the field, blah, blah, blah." Wave that white flag a little higher, doc.

 

Again doc, if you were expecting TO to be a one-man offense, that's on no one else but you. Most everyone else realizes that no, not everyone can catch those passes, or be an OC, or be an LT (and the funniest thing is you thought Peters sucked in 2008!).