Wells Fargo rant...

[Chilly]

No. What I am saying is the accounting is real time. I make an ATM withdrawal or POP transaction and it is reflected immediately online. No different from BOA, from what I can see. A few years ago I had a different CU that had a delay in their accounting.

 

Cool, glad it's getting better. It should as technology improves.

 

Small depositors aren't the preferred customers of commercial banks. When a major account holder has a problem, or potential problem, with their account do you think they simply get an email? They have an account manager taking care of their issues. Wtih a CU, customers like me are their bread and butter. They are designed to cater to people like me, not simply tolerate my business.

 

It should be expected that large accounts get better customer service from the big corps. My point was more along the lines of the personal touch being nice, but not necessary.

 

I don't need a phone call to tell me there's a problem with my account (I'd most likely just send it to voicemail anyway). An email is quick, effective, and cheap (and something I personally prefer, as it allows me to take care of it on my own time - but I can understand why someone would prefer getting a phone call).

 

Once when I got a call about my overdraft payment coming due I was out of town and low on funds. I asked if I could have two extra days, to get the cash when I returned. "No problem", I was informed. "Is there anything else I can help you with?"

 

And I once overdrafted my account in college. When I asked Bank of America if they would refund the fee, they did immediately. Same type of thing - the difference is you got a pro-active call, whereas I had to call them. Not a big deal to me.

 

The other day I stopped at the bank to get a cashier's check. The teller, who knows me by name, noticed I had yet to sign a form allowing me to use the overdraft protection on the ATM's. This was always fine, but a new law, or policy, made signing a form a prerequisite before using ATMs for overdrafts. I'm sure I got the notice in the mail and ignored it, or didn't open it yet. Anyway, the teller noticed, told me of the procedure and opted me into the program on the spot.

 

Which, again, was largely my point: They are differentiating themselves not by having better products, but by having more personal service. I'm fine by just having my bank send me forms or notices in the mail - I have a habit of reading them. For me, not a big deal. Again, I can see how it would be nice, but to me it's a personal touch that's not necessary.

 

When you say there are "lots of downsides to using CUs for checking accounts" I think that is a HUGE exaggeration. I also think your experience may be based on some old info, or maybe experience with a substandard CU.

 

To me, not having 24/7 access to talk to someone at my bank and not having all the same access when traveling outside of my bank's areas, and not having the same type of online banking experience at Credit Unions (including smartphone banking) that I receive at BoA are big downsides. I know that you've experienced good online banking, but I'm a member of two different credit unions, and they both suck. I'm not sure there's really a way to try out online banking before you join, either, so I'm not willing to take the risk.

 

Now, if you are a high dollar client, tie your accounts (savings, money market, etc) together and/or use many of the commercial services supplied by commercial banks, I can understand using them for checking. I think many of us have simpler needs in that dept.

 

CUs are great if you're willing to give up the advantages of being at a nationwide bank with lots of resources. You're willing to, I'm not. I think it really is that simple.

 

That being said, I think the days of free checking accounts at Credit Unions OR big banks are coming to a close. Credit Unions aren't making near as much money on loans anymore, and the big banks aren't making as much money on fees anymore.

 

The national bank reform legislation right now is going to force both big banks and credit unions into charging for checking accounts:

 

http://www.bakersfield.com/news/business/e...s-credit-unions

http://money.blogs.time.com/2010/06/17/ban...-free-checking/

[Buftex]

In all fairness, it sounds like most of the problem was yours for not getting to the bank on time and for somehow missing that today is a federal holiday -- of course banks are not open today.

 

In the future, it might be a good idea to grab a bunch of deposit envelopes to keep in your car.

 

 

Yes, I use a mid-sized regional bank that is well capitalized, has excellent customer service and didn't need any bailing out. That's the kind of bank you might want to consider looking for instead of the behemoths like WF, Citi, BoA, etc.

 

 

Yes, I agree, I know some of this was me. But, the reason I was confused about the bank being open, all of their references say that they are closed for "independence day", which, in my book, was Sunday, July 4th. Nothing referred to observing the holiday on July 5th. We didn't have mail service on July 3rd, I assumed in observance of independence day. The University of Texas was open for business, as was the Texas Department of Human Services, across the street from my house... either way, them being open today, or not, didn't affect anything, other than I couldn't go to a branch to get a new ATM card, and deposit my check...no big deal, I can do it tomorrow morning.

 

As for "not getting to the bank on time", I got there as early as I could. My job releases paychecks at noon on Friday. I had to work, and couldn't slip out to run to the bank...the reason they have ATM's, I think, is to accommodate people who can't get into a branch.

 

To, me, the biggest problem, is somebody didn't do their job and stock deposit envelopes, it is as simple as that. It was pouring rain that day...I am thinking that may have played into it. Somebody didn't feel like getting wet.

 

 

To all those with stories about having overdraft fees refunded, congrats. Wells Fargo will have none of that. About 3 months ago, I couldn't deposit a paycheck until late Friday evening, missing their cutoff time for the day. I had enough money in my account, prior, to cover three of four payments I had made that day...without my paycheck deposited, I would have been $13 overdrawn.

 

What Wells Fargo did, was process the largest payment first, so that all others would cause more overdraft fees. They didn't process the payments in the order they were made...took the biggest payment first, so others would overdraw. I should have been charged no more than one overdraft fee, but was instead charged for four. All of this, despite the fact that I had a pending deposit from an established business. I called to ask them if they could refund me three overdraft fees, if not all. I was told that would not be possible. I explained to them that their practice of withdrawing the largest payment first, to ensure more overdraft fees, seemed a little underhanded, if not unethical. I was told that "in customer surveys, our customers overwhelmingly expressed that they would prefer to have their largest payments processed first, in cases such as this." I was flabbergasted by the response. What customers did they survey?

 

What really pisses me off, I have been banking with this bank (in name anyways) for almost 20 years. I have had two other overdraft fees in all of that time. I am sure there are those who have never had any, but I hardly feel like that is excessive. It used to be a good bank...there has been a real change (not for the better) in recent years, for people like me, living paycheck to paycheck. When I had a better income, it wasn't as much of an issue. I just wonder if these people would just prefer not to have to deal with people like me...

[Lurker]

My job releases paychecks at noon on Friday. I had to work, and couldn't slip out to run to the bank...the reason they have ATM's, I think, is to accommodate people who can't get into a branch.

 

Deposits made at ATMs are not real-time transactions, they are batch time...meaning the funds aren't credited until someone from the bank physically removes the envelopes from the ATM and submits them for that night's posting, which usually means the transaction doesn't show up until after midnight of the next business day. With it being a holiday weekend, I doubt there's a scheduled pickup until Tuesday, meaning the deposit won't hit until Wed.

 

Best to get direct deposit and have a line of credit or savings account linked to the checking, so you can move funds between accounts for emergencies like this. I'm sure BofA (or any mid-size bank) can set up something like that easily.

 

I explained to them that their practice of withdrawing the largest payment first, to ensure more overdraft fees, seemed a little underhanded, if not unethical. I was told that "in customer surveys, our customers overwhelmingly expressed that they would prefer to have their largest payments processed first, in cases such as this." I was flabbergasted by the response. What customers did they survey?

Probably the customers who want their rent/mortgage check to clear first.

[DrDawkinstein]

Deposits made at ATMs are not real-time transactions, they are batch time...meaning the funds aren't credited until someone from the bank physically removes the envelopes from the ATM and submits them for that night's posting, which usually means the transaction doesn't show up until after midnight of the next business day. With it being a holiday weekend, I doubt there's a scheduled pickup until Tuesday, meaning the deposit won't hit until Wed.

 

not with my BoA accounts. Any deposit (cash OR check) made before 8pm on business days, posts that day and will be applied to any purchases or debits that were made on that day, even if they were earlier than the deposit.

 

my mortgage nightmare thread knocks BoA's mortgage department bad, but in 5 years of being a regular banking customer, Ive never had a problem and theyve always lead the way for making it easier.

[Buftex]

Deposits made at ATMs are not real-time transactions, they are batch time...meaning the funds aren't credited until someone from the bank physically removes the envelopes from the ATM and submits them for that night's posting, which usually means the transaction doesn't show up until after midnight of the next business day. With it being a holiday weekend, I doubt there's a scheduled pickup until Tuesday, meaning the deposit won't hit until Wed.

 

Best to get direct deposit and have a line of credit or savings account linked to the checking, so you can move funds between accounts for emergencies like this. I'm sure BofA (or any mid-size bank) can set up something like that easily.

 

Probably the customers who want their rent/mortgage check to clear first.

 

Not sure if you are being sarcastic, being TSW, I will assume you are.

 

Say you write 3 checks...one for $85, one for $19, and one for $16, for a total of $120. You only have $100 in your account. If they subtract the the largest one first ($85), you have $15 left in your account, assuring that you will have two overdraft fees, for the two smaller checks. The banks won't do you any favors, and use logic that benefits the customer...cash the two smaller checks ($35) total, and overdraft the the largest...

 

Believe me, I would love to have direct deposit, but the company I am working for does not do that.

[Lurker]

not with my BoA accounts. Any deposit (cash OR check) made before 8pm on business days, posts that day and will be applied to any purchases or debits that were made on that day, even if they were earlier than the deposit.

Does that apply at ATMs at well? ATMs are typically 'dumb' terminals that act like lockboxes for envelope deposits, as opposed to the real-time OCR's used by flesh and blood tellers.

[Buftex]

Does that apply at ATMs at well? ATMs are typically 'dumb' terminals that act like lockboxes for envelope deposits, as opposed to the real-time OCR's used by flesh and blood tellers.

 

Wells Fargo is like Dr Dankenstein's bank, but their cutoff time is, I believe, 5:30pm

[Lurker]

Say you write 3 checks...one for $85, one for $19, and one for $16, for a total of $120. You only have $100 in your account. If they subtract the the largest one first ($85), you have $15 left in your account, assuring that you will have two overdraft fees, for the two smaller checks. The banks won't do you any favors, and use logic that benefits the customer...cash the two smaller checks ($35) total, and overdraft the the largest...

In the grand scheme of thing, missing a rent or mortgage payment does a lot more damage than the potential for overdraft fees.

 

"The "biggest check first" policy is common among large U.S. banks.. Banks argue that this is done to prevent a customer's most important transactions (such as a rent or mortgage check, or utility payment) from being returned unpaid, despite some such transactions being guaranteed.

 

Consumers have attempted to litigate to prevent this practice, arguing that banks use "biggest check first" to manipulate the order of transactions to artificially trigger more overdraft fees to collect. Banks in the United States are mostly regulated by the Office of the Comptroller of Currency, a Federal agency, which has formally approved of the practice; the practice has recently been challenged, however, under numerous individual state deceptive practice laws.

 

Bank deposit agreements usually provide that the bank may clear transactions in any order, at the bank's discretion."

 

 

Overdaft protection is cheap and easy to link to a checking account.

[Buftex]

In the grand scheme of thing, missing a rent or mortgage payment does a lot more damage than the potential for overdraft fees.

 

"The "biggest check first" policy is common among large U.S. banks.. Banks argue that this is done to prevent a customer's most important transactions (such as a rent or mortgage check, or utility payment) from being returned unpaid, despite some such transactions being guaranteed.

 

Consumers have attempted to litigate to prevent this practice, arguing that banks use "biggest check first" to manipulate the order of transactions to artificially trigger more overdraft fees to collect. Banks in the United States are mostly regulated by the Office of the Comptroller of Currency, a Federal agency, which has formally approved of the practice; the practice has recently been challenged, however, under numerous individual state deceptive practice laws.

 

Bank deposit agreements usually provide that the bank may clear transactions in any order, at the bank's discretion."

 

Yes, but they don't "bounce" a check (not pay it), they just charge you an overdraft fee to cover it.

[DrDawkinstein]

Does that apply at ATMs at well? ATMs are typically 'dumb' terminals that act like lockboxes for envelope deposits, as opposed to the real-time OCR's used by flesh and blood tellers.

 

Im sorry I didnt specify, YEP thats for all BoA ATMs. There is an ATM at the end of my block. I do all my banking 200 yards from home any day until 8pm. it's really convenient, and Ive never had a problem with a check not posting or anything Id normally worry about.

 

edit: additional thing about the BoA ATM, no deposit slips or envelopes needed. you put in your cash or check and it scans it and tells you how much it is (you can edit as well). and on the receipt, they print an image of your check or money. its actually pretty sweet, if I were to get nerdy about ATMs.

[Lurker]

Yes, but they don't "bounce" a check (not pay it), they just charge you an overdraft fee to cover it.

Not necessarily. Banks can choose not to pay NSF (not sufficient funds) checks.

 

Here's Wells Fargo's policy...

[Lurker]

Im sorry I didnt specify, YEP thats for all BoA ATMs. There is an ATM at the end of my block. I do all my banking 200 yards from home any day until 8pm. it's really convenient, and Ive never had a problem with a check not posting or anything Id normally worry about.

 

edit: additional thing about the BoA ATM, no deposit slips or envelopes needed. you put in your cash or check and it scans it and tells you how much it is (you can edit as well). and on the receipt, they print an image of your check or money. its actually pretty sweet, if I were to get nerdy about ATMs.

That's expensive tech for an ATM, and indeed impressive. Not many regional banks can dedicate those kind of resources to such a low margin business.

 

That's how BofA operates though...spend a lot of money on systems and scrimp on the human beings...

[Just Jack]

edit: additional thing about the BoA ATM, no deposit slips or envelopes needed. you put in your cash or check and it scans it and tells you how much it is (you can edit as well). and on the receipt, they print an image of your check or money. its actually pretty sweet, if I were to get nerdy about ATMs.

My Credit Union has had that technology for a couple of years now. Their ATMs will also dispense cash in $5 increments.

[Wacka]

Buftex, Where are you?

 

Here in the SF area, all the WF ATMs take deposits of checks or cash without an enelope. Hve done so for several yeas now. Also, the banks are open Saturdays, Why didn't you go inside then?

[Doc]

In the grand scheme of thing, missing a rent or mortgage payment does a lot more damage than the potential for overdraft fees.

 

"The "biggest check first" policy is common among large U.S. banks.. Banks argue that this is done to prevent a customer's most important transactions (such as a rent or mortgage check, or utility payment) from being returned unpaid, despite some such transactions being guaranteed.

 

Consumers have attempted to litigate to prevent this practice, arguing that banks use "biggest check first" to manipulate the order of transactions to artificially trigger more overdraft fees to collect. Banks in the United States are mostly regulated by the Office of the Comptroller of Currency, a Federal agency, which has formally approved of the practice; the practice has recently been challenged, however, under numerous individual state deceptive practice laws.

 

Bank deposit agreements usually provide that the bank may clear transactions in any order, at the bank's discretion."

I had that happen to me. Both checks posted on the same date, but they took the bigger check first, so I was hit with 2 overdraft fees. I replaced the money as soon as I found out about it. I sent an e-mail (I've gotten an overdraft fee removed in the past) and they told me to pound sand. Now they've been sued for it. Good.