Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 30, 2010 Posted June 30, 2010 Actually, you asked if any starting QB had a weaker arm than Edwards, and we presented you with about 10 options, give or take. But believe whatever you want. You said he had the weakest arm among starting QB's in the league. I say you're delusional. You and ICE should start a fan club. You're both going to be so pissed when he's starting the season at QB... Not saying I expect it, but imagine how pissed they'll be if TE turns out to be a decent NFL QB once he is in a offense designed around his strength, short passing game in spread offense... There were even Bills fans that wanted to run Kelly out of town, so I guess even a hall of famer couldn't impress all the "expert scout fans"....
1billsfan Posted June 30, 2010 Author Posted June 30, 2010 Not saying I expect it, but imagine how pissed they'll be if TE turns out to be a decent NFL QB once he is in a offense designed around his strength, short passing game in spread offense... There were even Bills fans that wanted to run Kelly out of town, so I guess even a hall of famer couldn't impress all the "expert scout fans".... You did know that Jim Kelly is on record for wanting to run Trent Edwards out of Buffalo?... http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4691552 "I like Trent personally," Kelly said, according to the report. "He works hard. But he's had three years. It's time to find somebody who is the future of the Buffalo Bills. If I'm the owner, that's what I'm thinking. " BTW, I'm not going to be pissed because it will never happen. It's like saying I'll be pissed when pigs fly. I've long ago moved beyond hoping Edwards was going to be a good qb and came to the same conclusion that Jim Kelly (and anyone with eyes) did...he's had three years, and if he were any good he would have showed flashes during the piss poor 5-12 record of his last 17 games. Not once did I see any of you fanboys put your support behind Trent leading up to the 2010 draft. Now, two months later he's suddenly an answer to the Bills qb problems? That's flat out stupid. Please link us to this undying Trent Edwards support of yours leading up to the draft. You can't, because you never did.
thebug Posted June 30, 2010 Posted June 30, 2010 You did know that Jim Kelly is on record for wanting to run Trent Edwards out of Buffalo?... http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4691552 "I like Trent personally," Kelly said, according to the report. "He works hard. But he's had three years. It's time to find somebody who is the future of the Buffalo Bills. If I'm the owner, that's what I'm thinking. " BTW, I'm not going to be pissed because it will never happen. It's like saying I'll be pissed when pigs fly. I've long ago moved beyond hoping Edwards was going to be a good qb and came to the same conclusion that Jim Kelly (and anyone with eyes) did...he's had three years, and if he were any good he would have showed flashes during the piss poor 5-12 record of his last 17 games. Not once did I see any of you fanboys put your support behind Trent leading up to the 2010 draft. Now, two months later he's suddenly an answer to the Bills qb problems? That's flat out stupid. Please link us to this undying Trent Edwards support of yours leading up to the draft. You can't, because you never did. I don't think people really believe in Trent any more now than they did then. I think they are just sick of your crusade against him? We get it.
Guest dog14787 Posted June 30, 2010 Posted June 30, 2010 You did know that Jim Kelly is on record for wanting to run Trent Edwards out of Buffalo?... http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4691552 "I like Trent personally," Kelly said, according to the report. "He works hard. But he's had three years. It's time to find somebody who is the future of the Buffalo Bills. If I'm the owner, that's what I'm thinking. " BTW, I'm not going to be pissed because it will never happen. It's like saying I'll be pissed when pigs fly. I've long ago moved beyond hoping Edwards was going to be a good qb and came to the same conclusion that Jim Kelly (and anyone with eyes) did...he's had three years, and if he were any good he would have showed flashes during the piss poor 5-12 record of his last 17 games. Not once did I see any of you fanboys put your support behind Trent leading up to the 2010 draft. Now, two months later he's suddenly an answer to the Bills qb problems? That's flat out stupid. Please link us to this undying Trent Edwards support of yours leading up to the draft. You can't, because you never did. I'm not going to go into all the problems our Buffalo Bills Football team has had over the last decade, especially on offense. Ted Marchibroda was the last competent OC, Marv Levy the last competent HC and Bill Polian the last competent GM and since that time for the most part its been garbage in, garbage out. Maybe Jim kelly would like to try playing behind the same O-line Trent Edwards played behind, with the same supporting cast and the same coaching/ General management. ( Lets throw in the no huddle without blocking for the fun of it) Maybe then JK would understand the problems in Buffalo go way beyond the starting QB position. Now could Jim "Machine Gun" Kelly have done better then any one of our Bills signal callers over the last decade you might ask yourself, of course he could ( at least in my opinion), but his career would have ended much sooner, with numerous concussions/ broken bones and I seriously doubt Kelly would have even come close to sniffing the big dance, much less play in it.
Matt in KC Posted June 30, 2010 Posted June 30, 2010 You did know that Jim Kelly is on record for wanting to run Trent Edwards out of Buffalo?... http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4691552 Not once did I see any of you fanboys put your support behind Trent leading up to the 2010 draft. Now, two months later he's suddenly an answer to the Bills qb problems? That's flat out stupid. Please link us to this undying Trent Edwards support of yours leading up to the draft. You can't, because you never did. You're either a troll or very very dim. If you read the 80+ responses to this thread you'd see very few people saying or implying that they know Trent is the answer. Without rereading myself the strongest I remember are comment along the lines of "there have been so many problems, let's see how Trent performs in a new system, with new coaches." I wanted the Bills to draft a QB. I also think your argument against him here is lame. The pushback you're getting is not a blanket defense of Trent, it's people actually engaging your stump of an argument. So, people have named some QBs where Trent has a stronger arm like you asked. We could also then add the other ~10 QB that have an arm like Trent's. Seeing that Trent is middle-of-the pack for arm strength do you want to say "see, based on that alone he can't be an NFL QB?" How does showing he's approximately average for an NFL starter on a single attribute show he can't be a starter? Why don't you want to acknowledge that can Trent physically throw well enough? (I provided a link showing him throw a couple 45 yard in the air TD passes.) Is that because that would mean it's physically possible for Trent to perform well with better coaching? What's so wrong with that? Since he has a very good shot at being our starting QB at the start of the season, you'd think you could muster up some energy to hope for him and the Bills, even while you have doubts. Why do you post here if you think all is hopeless? The conclusion I've come to is that you're a troll, happy to make others a little more miserable.
1billsfan Posted June 30, 2010 Author Posted June 30, 2010 I'm not going to go into all the problems our Buffalo Bills Football team has had over the last decade, especially on offense. Ted Marchibroda was the last competent OC, Marv Levy the last competent HC and Bill Polian the last competent GM and since that time its been garbage in, garbage out. Maybe Jim kelly would like to try playing behind the same O-line Trent Edwards played behind, with the same coaching and General management. ( Lets throw in the no huddle without blocking for the fun of it) Maybe then JK would understand the problems in Buffalo go way beyond the starting QB position. Kelly and right minded Bills fans all understand that the Bills #1 problem remains the starting QB position. Feel free to join the club whenever you'd like. BTW, where's your link showing support for Trent before the 2010 draft.
1billsfan Posted June 30, 2010 Author Posted June 30, 2010 You're either a troll or very very dim. If you read the 80+ responses to this thread you'd see very few people saying or implying that they know Trent is the answer. Without rereading myself the strongest I remember are comment along the lines of "there have been so many problems, let's see how Trent performs in a new system, with new coaches." I wanted the Bills to draft a QB. I also think your argument against him here is lame. The pushback you're getting is not a blanket defense of Trent, it's people actually engaging your stump of an argument. So, people have named some QBs where Trent has a stronger arm like you asked. We could also then add the other ~10 QB that have an arm like Trent's. Seeing that Trent is middle-of-the pack for arm strength do you want to say "see, based on that alone he can't be an NFL QB?" How does showing he's approximately average for an NFL starter on a single attribute show he can't be a starter? Why don't you want to acknowledge that can Trent physically throw well enough? (I provided a link showing him throw a couple 45 yard in the air TD passes.) Is that because that would mean it's physically possible for Trent to perform well with better coaching? What's so wrong with that? Since he has a very good shot at being our starting QB at the start of the season, you'd think you could muster up some energy to hope for him and the Bills, even while you have doubts. Why do you post here if you think all is hopeless? The conclusion I've come to is that you're a troll, happy to make others a little more miserable. All is not hopeless. I couldn't have been more specific in my thread topic. Trent Edwards sucks and I will refute anyone here who's trying to prop him up as a viable QB option for my favorite team. That's not being a troll, that's having my favorite teams' back. My crusade against Dick Jauron was about two years longer than it should have been, but where might we be if they had fired his loser ass two years ago? Was I being a troll for making fun of him for two straight years? So this was my first shot (of many to come) at all the delusional Bills fans who feel that Trent Edwards was just a "poor victim" of circumstances. The guys sucks, he's one of the main reasons that we sucked, he has no passion for winning or the game, and I can't wait till him and Dick are both golfing together in the fall, somewhere far far away from Ralph Wilson Stadium.
Guest dog14787 Posted June 30, 2010 Posted June 30, 2010 Kelly and right minded Bills fans all understand that the Bills #1 problem remains the starting QB position. Feel free to join the club whenever you'd like. BTW, where's your link showing support for Trent before the 2010 draft. If you want to go through all my posts well beyond the 2010 draft you will find not only predictions Trent Edwards will start for the Buffalo Bills this coming up season, you will find predictions Trent Edwards will one day bring home a championship. I Billieve...
Roc Bronson Posted June 30, 2010 Posted June 30, 2010 He shows those elements occasionally, it's just that linebackers seem to knock them out of his skull like a piñata at an Arizona border party. THIS IS BEYOND THE TRUTH LOL!!!!
Adam Posted June 30, 2010 Posted June 30, 2010 All is not hopeless. I couldn't have been more specific in my thread topic. Trent Edwards sucks and I will refute anyone here who's trying to prop him up as a viable QB option for my favorite team. That's not being a troll, that's having my favorite teams' back. My crusade against Dick Jauron was about two years longer than it should have been, but where might we be if they had fired his loser ass two years ago? Was I being a troll for making fun of him for two straight years? So this was my first shot (of many to come) at all the delusional Bills fans who feel that Trent Edwards was just a "poor victim" of circumstances. The guys sucks, he's one of the main reasons that we sucked, he has no passion for winning or the game, and I can't wait till him and Dick are both golfing together in the fall, somewhere far far away from Ralph Wilson Stadium. Who is next the next singular reason we are losing?
koozyburger Posted June 30, 2010 Posted June 30, 2010 Ir really does't matter because Trent Edwards will be cut before the season starts. He makes way too much money and all the other Qb's are just as good or better than him.
PDaDdy Posted June 30, 2010 Posted June 30, 2010 It is a foolish exercise to try to compare anything other than the weakest and strongest arms in the nfl. That being said, EDWARDS IS THE WORST. HE SUCKS! HE HAS NO BALLS! Look at highlight videos on buffalobills.com. Take a look at the super wobbly lame ducks Edwards chucks up there when he is trying to go longer than 15 yards. You'll see what I am talking about. We know Edwards has a weak arm and a TERRIBLE deep ball. Who cares if anyone is ACTUALLY WORSE!?!??!?!? Time for a change. I say we run the wild cat 24x7. Marshawn and Freddie both have passing TDs. Put them in there with Spiller and let the mayhem commence! LOL
prissythecat Posted June 30, 2010 Posted June 30, 2010 Ir really does't matter because Trent Edwards will be cut before the season starts. He makes way too much money and all the other Qb's are just as good or better than him. Trent makes way too much money with his 3rd round salary?
Hossage Posted June 30, 2010 Posted June 30, 2010 It is a foolish exercise to try to compare anything other than the weakest and strongest arms in the nfl. That being said, EDWARDS IS THE WORST. HE SUCKS! HE HAS NO BALLS! Look at highlight videos on buffalobills.com. Take a look at the super wobbly lame ducks Edwards chucks up there when he is trying to go longer than 15 yards. You'll see what I am talking about. We know Edwards has a weak arm and a TERRIBLE deep ball. Who cares if anyone is ACTUALLY WORSE!?!??!?!? Time for a change. I say we run the wild cat 24x7. Marshawn and Freddie both have passing TDs. Put them in there with Spiller and let the mayhem commence! LOL I really think a heavy dose of the wildcat would work. Jackson and Parrish are backup quarterbacks.
Sisyphean Bills Posted June 30, 2010 Posted June 30, 2010 Trent makes way too much money with his 3rd round salary? IIRC, Fitzpatrick earns more.
Dorkington Posted June 30, 2010 Posted June 30, 2010 Arm strength isn't the biggest problem Edwards has... in fact, his arm strength seems fine to me... middle of the league quality probably. I think his biggest issue is he doesn't scan the field fast enough, and got too into not taking chances (what you guys call, checking down). But that's stuff that can be worked on with coaching... My biggest concern though, is health. He has an arm. He is smart. He has better coaching this year... but what's going to happen when he takes a big hit?
DarthICE Posted June 30, 2010 Posted June 30, 2010 You did know that Jim Kelly is on record for wanting to run Trent Edwards out of Buffalo?... http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4691552 "I like Trent personally," Kelly said, according to the report. "He works hard. But he's had three years. It's time to find somebody who is the future of the Buffalo Bills. If I'm the owner, that's what I'm thinking. " BTW, I'm not going to be pissed because it will never happen. It's like saying I'll be pissed when pigs fly. I've long ago moved beyond hoping Edwards was going to be a good qb and came to the same conclusion that Jim Kelly (and anyone with eyes) did...he's had three years, and if he were any good he would have showed flashes during the piss poor 5-12 record of his last 17 games. Not once did I see any of you fanboys put your support behind Trent leading up to the 2010 draft. Now, two months later he's suddenly an answer to the Bills qb problems? That's flat out stupid. Please link us to this undying Trent Edwards support of yours leading up to the draft. You can't, because you never did. Kelly was and is right, He has to go. We need to get rid of this bum already.
Orton's Arm Posted June 30, 2010 Posted June 30, 2010 I don't think anyone who has followed the nfl for more than ten years needs be convinced that you can win in this league with different types of teams - and not all championship teams need great QB's. There have been a number of very tough teams with some very unremarkable QB's of late - Tampa and Baltimore won SB's without a top 20 QB. . . . You wrote that the Ravens and the Bucs were able to with the Super Bowl without having a top-20 QB. However, in 2002--the year the Bucs won the Super Bowl--Brad Johnson had 6.8 yards per pass attempt, a QB rating of 92.9, and threw for 22 TDs to just 6 INTs. He was invited to the Pro Bowl that year. Rock solid performance from the QB position clearly made a major contribution to the Bucs' Super Bowl win that year. I agree that the Ravens were able to win the Super Bowl despite having Trent Dilfer at QB. But to win despite substandard QB play, they had to have one of the three best defenses in NFL history. Plus they had to have a dominant offensive line, led by Hall of Fame level LT Jon Ogden. Plus they needed Jamal Lewis--he of a subsequent 2000 yard rushing season. Sure, if a team is prepared to do all that, then it can win a Super Bowl without a first-rate QB. But compare that Ravens team of 2000 with the Patriots of the 2000s. Clearly, the Ravens had assembled much better talent than the Patriots on the defensive line, linebackers, and defensive secondary. The Ravens also had the better offensive line; and especially the better LT. The Ravens had better talent at RB. Both teams were (initially) a little lackluster in terms of receiving threats; though the Patriots would later make up for that by adding guys like Randy Moss. That Patriots team, however, won three Super Bowl rings to the Ravens' one Super Bowl ring, despite the fact that the Ravens of 2000 had more talent at nearly every position than any of the Patriots of the 2000s teams had. The difference was that the Patriots had Tom Brady at QB; whereas the Ravens' best QB from the late '90s - early 2000s was, sadly enough, Trent Dilfer. (His competition for that honor included guys like Elvis Grbac and Tony Banks.) If your goal is to win the Super Bowl, your best bet is to find a top tier QB, and to surround him with as much talent as you possibly can. Sure, you can get a good record in the regular season with a good defense + good running game + below-average QB. You may even win a playoff game or two with a formula like that. But as you advance deeper into the playoffs, you become increasingly likely to encounter a team with a good defense + good offensive players + a top-tier QB. Note that in this most recent Super Bowl both the Colts (Manning) and Saints (Brees) were like that. They both had very good defenses, and their top-tier QBs were surrounded by a good amount of offensive talent. Suppose you're a team with a below-average QB going up against a complete team with a top-tier QB. Your team's inferior play from the QB position will put you at a significant disadvantage. If you want to balance out that disadvantage, your team's defense will have to solidly outplay the other team's defense. That could be difficult, because the other team's defense may well be a top-10 or even top-5 defense! The Ravens of 2000 were one of the few teams able to do this. Every player on their defensive line was the kind of guy that offenses tend to double-team. (And obviously no offense can double team all four guys!) The Ravens' linebacker corps was very good, and consisted of guys at or near a Pro Bowl level. The Ravens' secondary was a true source of strength, and had two shutdown corners to go along with very solid players at safety. A defense like that could outcompete other teams' defenses--even other teams' top-5 defenses--by a large enough margin to make up for the Ravens' disadvantage at QB. The only problem is that creating a Ravens of 2000-like defense is easier said than done.
Adam Posted June 30, 2010 Posted June 30, 2010 You wrote that the Ravens and the Bucs were able to with the Super Bowl without having a top-20 QB. However, in 2002--the year the Bucs won the Super Bowl--Brad Johnson had 6.8 yards per pass attempt, a QB rating of 92.9, and threw for 22 TDs to just 6 INTs. He was invited to the Pro Bowl that year. Rock solid performance from the QB position clearly made a major contribution to the Bucs' Super Bowl win that year. I agree that the Ravens were able to win the Super Bowl despite having Trent Dilfer at QB. But to win despite substandard QB play, they had to have one of the three best defenses in NFL history. Plus they had to have a dominant offensive line, led by Hall of Fame level LT Jon Ogden. Plus they needed Jamal Lewis--he of a subsequent 2000 yard rushing season. Sure, if a team is prepared to do all that, then it can win a Super Bowl without a first-rate QB. But compare that Ravens team of 2000 with the Patriots of the 2000s. Clearly, the Ravens had assembled much better talent than the Patriots on the defensive line, linebackers, and defensive secondary. The Ravens also had the better offensive line; and especially the better LT. The Ravens had better talent at RB. Both teams were (initially) a little lackluster in terms of receiving threats; though the Patriots would later make up for that by adding guys like Randy Moss. That Patriots team, however, won three Super Bowl rings to the Ravens' one Super Bowl ring, despite the fact that the Ravens of 2000 had more talent at nearly every position than any of the Patriots of the 2000s teams had. The difference was that the Patriots had Tom Brady at QB; whereas the Ravens' best QB from the late '90s - early 2000s was, sadly enough, Trent Dilfer. (His competition for that honor included guys like Elvis Grbac and Tony Banks.) If your goal is to win the Super Bowl, your best bet is to find a top tier QB, and to surround him with as much talent as you possibly can. Sure, you can get a good record in the regular season with a good defense + good running game + below-average QB. You may even win a playoff game or two with a formula like that. But as you advance deeper into the playoffs, you become increasingly likely to encounter a team with a good defense + good offensive players + a top-tier QB. Note that in this most recent Super Bowl both the Colts (Manning) and Saints (Brees) were like that. They both had very good defenses, and their top-tier QBs were surrounded by a good amount of offensive talent. Suppose you're a team with a below-average QB going up against a complete team with a top-tier QB. Your team's inferior play from the QB position will put you at a significant disadvantage. If you want to balance out that disadvantage, your team's defense will have to solidly outplay the other team's defense. That could be difficult, because the other team's defense may well be a top-10 or even top-5 defense! The Ravens of 2000 were one of the few teams able to do this. Every player on their defensive line was the kind of guy that offenses tend to double-team. (And obviously no offense can double team all four guys!) The Ravens' linebacker corps was very good, and consisted of guys at or near a Pro Bowl level. The Ravens' secondary was a true source of strength, and had two shutdown corners to go along with very solid players at safety. A defense like that could outcompete other teams' defenses--even other teams' top-5 defenses--by a large enough margin to make up for the Ravens' disadvantage at QB. The only problem is that creating a Ravens of 2000-like defense is easier said than done. I would take the Trent Dilfer from that time period over any QB we have had in the last decade- although we would have to protect him. To this day, a lot of the Baltimore defensive players are convinced that letting him go is what kept them from being multiple-time superbowl champions. Trent Edwards is a so-so QB. Not sure if he ever will be better than that. I think he is better than Fitzpatrick and I don't have a clue what Brohm is. We don't need to worry about QB until we are stout at the line of scrimmage on both sides. As to the Kelly comments- I couldn't care less what he thinks. I enjoyed watching his playing career, although I think he was overrated. I agonize over his family tragedy as well. And about running the wildcat as our base offense? That's as crazy as running the option as our offense.
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