Jamaal Brown to the Redskins

[JohnC]

I never said he'd take us to the playoffs. He wouldn't be my first choice but sending a 3 for jb and a 5 is a pretty good deal. By having a functional line you can evaluate many other positions properly. By essentially trading back 60 picks in the draft you get to see a much better picture of what your needs are.

 

If you look at what the Redskins have done under HC Shanahan and GM Allen in this offseason you have to be impressed. . They drafted OT Trent Williams with their first rd. pick, picked up Hicks in the free agent market who can play G/ROT and added OT JB in a trade for modest picks. In one offseason they reconstituted the OL and brought in players who can give them depth with their ability to play multiple positions on the line. The addition of JB and Hicks really didn't cost them very much.

 

As you smartly stated upgrading the OL and having it function at a competent level directly impacts the play of the qb and the other skill positions on the offense. In my view relying on Bell and Meredith as prospective LTs is taking a very big risk.

[bkc]

I agree. I've been reading this forum for a few years now and I've been sifting thru people's posts. It's taken a while, and it's still a work in progress, but i've started to see which ones here have a clue and which ones don't. Even the ones who in my opinion don't have a clue, i still try to get some semblance of understanding of our team which i might have missed.

 

 

I understand what you two,(pilsner and Buffalonian ), are saying about posters overreacting but this is a legit debate. Adding a nfl caliber left tackle to this team for the cost of a mid round draft pick and a new contract is not an outragous thought.

[NoSaint]

Fair enough point, but I disagree, I think giving up a 3rd is a bad deal. I think it sets us back. You get a guy that you have to give up picks for, that you have to sign to a lucrative extension, to only have that investment really mean anything a couple of years from now. Then he'd be that much closer to the downside of his career even if the chance you took on a player coming of season ending surgeries is healthy.

 

 

Couple points.... Again, he was IRed but it wouldn't have been a season ending injury. That's part of why he wants out, he's unhappy they shelved him when he couldve played by years end.

 

Also, you aren't straight giving up picks- it's a trade of a 3 and 5 so you are dropping 60 or so picks. Is a player in the 5th coupled with brown going to bring more talent to the team then a 3rd round player? I think so.

[Meathead]

its blatantly obvious this is a two year plus plan

 

this season its do the best with what you got and figure out who you have to work with

 

if they get lucky and end up with a lot of good pieces then they fill in the blanks in the offseason and make a playoff push

 

if not then its another cycle of fine tuning and season three becomes make or break

 

four wins

[Malazan]

I get what you are saying but this is such a huge need for us .

 

This is the crux of the problem with fans. It's a huge need for *you*, not "us" or "The Bills".

 

They've stated that they want 'young'. Brown is not young. Why would they throw away their philosophy for one player?

 

As much as we want to bash on Bell, Wang, etc...The Bills don't know what they have and if the project is such a huge rebuild then signing this one player before you've been able to evaluate your station would be stupid. If they sign Brown to a big extension then they are locked into him for however long that extension is for and that would likely be 2-3 years for a guy coming off an injury.

 

Last year was bad for many players on the Offensive line, but considering the competence level of the coaching staff. No one knows if some of these guys are salvageable.

 

What I really fail to grasp is that the same people who put this team as one step above a little league team want to make signings to 'win now'. If the Bills are so far away how does singing s player that won't be here or will be too old by the time they're ready to compete help or does Jamal Brown make them an instant contender? Seriously?

 

It's entirely possible that he's a great player and could provide a huge boost, but a player seeking a large extension coming off a serious injury and was on a Superbowl winning team may not be the most motivated person in the world to give his all to a team who's playoff prospects look dim.

 

Can we all stop being the kid desperate for a date to the prom? We don't need to ask our cousin to go just because we don't have a date yet. I'd rather get the 'right' player than overpay another offensive lineman who isn't going to be what's needed just because he is a name we heard on ESPN at some point and doesn't play for the Bills.

[BillsRUs]

its blatantly obvious this is a two year plus plan

 

this season its do the best with what you got and figure out who you have to work with

 

if they get lucky and end up with a lot of good pieces then they fill in the blanks in the offseason and make a playoff push

 

if not then its another cycle of fine tuning and season three becomes make or break

 

four wins

 

 

You make a lotta sense meaty. First step to rebuilding is to see what you have to work with in the first place.

[Sabre Bill]

Don't Brown's injuries, age and overall talent level make him less desirable than Gaither? Now that the market value for Brown has been established, doesn't this make Gaither potentially cheaper? Perhaps Buddy's playing chess and the rest of us are just playing checkers?

[Buffalonian-at-Heart]

the ease with which the front office can sell being cheap as "building for the long term" is scary as hell. The Skins gave up the right to take a flyer on a Marcus Easley, Kevin Everett type to get a former pro bowler with 4-5 years left. Some 4th rounders pan out. The only way you don't make that move is if you refuse to pay the $10 M guaranteed it will take to sign him. You can argue that one either way, but when your needs at the position are as acute as the Bills', you make the freakin move. Period.

 

Would you rather have Gaither or Brown?

[NoSaint]

This is the crux of the problem with fans. It's a huge need for *you*, not "us" or "The Bills".

 

They've stated that they want 'young'. Brown is not young. Why would they throw away their philosophy for one player?

 

As much as we want to bash on Bell, Wang, etc...The Bills don't know what they have and if the project is such a huge rebuild then signing this one player before you've been able to evaluate your station would be stupid. If they sign Brown to a big extension then they are locked into him for however long that extension is for and that would likely be 2-3 years for a guy coming off an injury.

 

Last year was bad for many players on the Offensive line, but considering the competence level of the coaching staff. No one knows if some of these guys are salvageable.

 

What I really fail to grasp is that the same people who put this team as one step above a little league team want to make signings to 'win now'. If the Bills are so far away how does singing s player that won't be here or will be too old by the time they're ready to compete help or does Jamal Brown make them an instant contender? Seriously?

 

It's entirely possible that he's a great player and could provide a huge boost, but a player seeking a large extension coming off a serious injury and was on a Superbowl winning team may not be the most motivated person in the world to give his all to a team who's playoff prospects look dim.

 

Can we all stop being the kid desperate for a date to the prom? We don't need to ask our cousin to go just because we don't have a date yet. I'd rather get the 'right' player than overpay another offensive lineman who isn't going to be what's needed just because he is a name we heard on ESPN at some point and doesn't play for the Bills.

 

I am not a fan of giving away the house for one player, but this would hardly be the case. I think a premium contract would be the biggest cost, and I think we will see that Brown will get a good, but not knockout deal. I am looking at the value in potentially finding out whether we have our qb of the future or not. Im not saying edwards or brohm are that guy, but what if one is, and we end up picking up a guy in the first next year, because what we had spent a year on their back, getting killed.

 

We have had the same questions for years because of poor line play, and I would like to have an answer, before investing another pick in a qb. if that costs trading down a couple of rounds, so be it.

 

that said, id rather have mcneil, or gaither, but brown at that price is very attractive.

[Buffalonian-at-Heart]

Couple points.... Again, he was IRed but it wouldn't have been a season ending injury. That's part of why he wants out, he's unhappy they shelved him when he couldve played by years end.

 

Also, you aren't straight giving up picks- it's a trade of a 3 and 5 so you are dropping 60 or so picks. Is a player in the 5th coupled with brown going to bring more talent to the team then a 3rd round player? I think so.

 

Look I'm not saying its insane to trade for Brown. I'm just saying there's enough legitimate debate against trading for him to at the very least defend the competency of our FO in year one of their rebuild.

[Doc]

If you look at what the Redskins have done under HC Shanahan and GM Allen in this offseason you have to be impressed. . They drafted OT Trent Williams with their first rd. pick, picked up Hicks in the free agent market who can play G/ROT and added OT JB in a trade for modest picks. In one offseason they reconstituted the OL and brought in players who can give them depth with their ability to play multiple positions on the line. The addition of JB and Hicks really didn't cost them very much.

What's any different between this off-season and any other Redskins off-season? Lots of moves, but will they work?

As you smartly stated upgrading the OL and having it function at a competent level directly impacts the play of the qb and the other skill positions on the offense. In my view relying on Bell and Meredith as prospective LTs is taking a very big risk.

It's a rebuilding year. There's no real risk, unless one of the QB's turns out to be good and gets killed because the LT didn't do his job.

 

And you have to ask why the Saints would trade him, for just a 3rd round pick, when they have just Bushrod and a rookie at the LT position and Jammal Brown is supposedly so good? I've been told that Bushrod was a liability and Charles Brown is an unproven rookie.

[Buffalonian-at-Heart]

I am not a fan of giving away the house for one player, but this would hardly be the case. I think a premium contract would be the biggest cost, and I think we will see that Brown will get a good, but not knockout deal. I am looking at the value in potentially finding out whether we have our qb of the future or not. Im not saying edwards or brohm are that guy, but what if one is, and we end up picking up a guy in the first next year, because what we had spent a year on their back, getting killed.

 

We have had the same questions for years because of poor line play, and I would like to have an answer, before investing another pick in a qb. if that costs trading down a couple of rounds, so be it.

 

that said, id rather have mcneil, or gaither, but brown at that price is very attractive.

 

You are offering good debate and I'm not trying to debunk everything you say. But first of all what the Bills have done with the offensive line up until this past off season has nothing to do with the current regime, unless you're one of those Ralph Wilson won't let anyone build a winning team guys. Second, even if you did want to go that route, the Bills have worked on building the line every single year.

 

So if we work on the line every single off season, what's the issue, why isn't our line tops in the league? Because our FO and coaching staffs the past 10 years sucked. I'm just saying give this group a fresh start, that's really the only option.

[Lurker]

Don't Brown's injuries, age and overall talent level make him less desirable than Gaither? Now that the market value for Brown has been established, doesn't this make Gaither potentially cheaper? Perhaps Buddy's playing chess and the rest of us are just playing checkers?

Interesting point. Very typical of The Washington organization to follow a "Ready, Fire, Aim" approach and end up with little to show for it. I can see Nix being be savy enough to know that next year players X, Y and Z will also be available, as they are every year, so no reason to tie up the future just to make a marketing splash. Or that the longer the Gaither situation plays out, the more likely Newsome will be pragmatic and take what the market is offering.

[Thurman#1]

I love how its such a noble cause to build through the draft and bring in young players, ignoring the gaping trauma inducing hole on your club.

 

Its like test driving a new car that doesn't have breaks because you want to save money and be able to buy the right brakes for it. In the meantime you'll just recklessly drive your four wheel hazard and smash it to pieces.

 

 

Without a LT this team won't be able to;

- Evaluate any of its QB's

- understand how good Spiller might be

- develop it young WR corp

 

We get to watch another whole season of QB's scrambling, 3rd and 12's and 14 punt games

 

 

 

You said "Without a LT this team won't be able to;

- Evaluate any of its QB's

- understand how good Spiller might be

- develop it young WR corp" ...

 

but it's just not true. Rarely do new guys get to operate in perfect conditions, and a great deal can be learned by watching them work with problems around them. Further, the QBs can be protected simply by protecting that side by using an RB or a TE to double the rushers from that side.

 

If you expect to win this year, yeah, a horrible LT is a huge handicap. If you're not expecting to be good till 2012, it doesn't really matter.

[JohnC]

What's any different between this off-season and any other Redskins off-season? Lots of moves, but will they work?

 

The Skins this offseason didn't go out and sign high profile and expensive free agents. McNabb was acquired in a trade for a reasonable price.

 

It's a rebuilding year. There's no real risk, unless one of the QB's turns out to be good and gets killed because the LT didn't do his job.

 

There is no doubt that the Bills are in a rebuilding process. That doesn't mean that you can't upgrade specific positions without mortgaging the future. Getting your qb or qbs mauled because of a present lact of talent at that position should be a consideration in trying to upgrade the position.

 

And you have to ask why the Saints would trade him, for just a 3rd round pick, when they have just Bushrod and a rookie at the LT position and Jammal Brown is supposedly so good? I've been told that Bushrod was a liability and Charles Brown is an unproven rookie.

 

The NFL of today is about contracts as much as it is about talent. The Saints won a SB without JB last year. They believe they can move a player now who has higher contract expectations than they are willing to meet. Getting something in return before he becomes a free agent next year is another factor in making the deal with the Skins. In addition, the Saints were smart in drafting a LT in the second round this year in order to cover themselves if and when they decided to make the JB trade.

[Thurman#1]

I agree, McNeil would be an excellent pick up for us.

 

 

Pretty solid, yeah, but he's not getting out of San Diego as much as he might like to.

[Thurman#1]

Don't Brown's injuries, age and overall talent level make him less desirable than Gaither? Now that the market value for Brown has been established, doesn't this make Gaither potentially cheaper? Perhaps Buddy's playing chess and the rest of us are just playing checkers?

 

 

 

Unfortunately, the market doesn't set the price for Gaither. Ozzie Newsome does. A seller who isn't willing to lower the price because he doesn't need to sell ... sets the market and doesn't care if nobody meets the price. And Ozzie doesn't screw around. He's made it clear that he won't trade him for less than a second. Believe it. The Ravens think they have a Super Bowl shot this year, and they'll have a better chance with Gaither on the OL.

[Sabre Bill]

Unfortunately, the market doesn't set the price for Gaither. Ozzie Newsome does. A seller who isn't willing to lower the price because he doesn't need to sell ... sets the market and doesn't care if nobody meets the price. And Ozzie doesn't screw around. He's made it clear that he won't trade him for less than a second. Believe it. The Ravens think they have a Super Bowl shot this year, and they'll have a better chance with Gaither on the OL.

 

 

 

True enough, but aren't you oversimplifying? Oher stubs a toe and Gaither is cemented into Raven purple, but they lose a DB and . . . not so much. Not that your wrong, but the Ravens aren't a perfect football team, any more than any of the other 31. Ozzie has needs and wants, too. There's a tipping point that will make Gaither more valuable as a trade commodity than as a disgruntled RT.

 

Or then again, we wait till next year and get him to protect the young stud we draft in round one with pick number 10.

[Doc]

The Skins this offseason didn't go out and sign high profile and expensive free agents. McNabb was acquired in a trade for a reasonable price.

McNabb will make $11.2M this season (and become a FA in 2011 if he doesn't sign an extension). And Brown will likely command a contract approaching $10M/year. If he isn't signed to a long-term deal, they traded away picks for nothing. The same goes for McNabb. Last year they spent a ton on Haynesworth and that blew up in their faces.

 

There is no doubt that the Bills are in a rebuilding process. That doesn't mean that you can't upgrade specific positions without mortgaging the future. Getting your qb or qbs mauled because of a present lact of talent at that position should be a consideration in trying to upgrade the position.

 

The NFL of today is about contracts as much as it is about talent. The Saints won a SB without JB last year. They believe they can move a player now who has higher contract expectations than they are willing to meet. Getting something in return before he becomes a free agent next year is another factor in making the deal with the Skins. In addition, the Saints were smart in drafting a LT in the second round this year in order to cover themselves if and when they decided to make the JB trade.

I asked for an opinion on Jermon Bushrod, the Saints' LT, because he was a RFA with a 2nd round tender. People who watched him said he was a liability and the Saints won in spite of him. So with that knowledge, and the money they have invested in Brees, why continue to trust him at LT and potentially get him "mauled," when he became the starter because Brown got injured, and they could have kept Brown?

[Sabre Bill]

McNabb will make $11.2M this season (and become a FA in 2011 if he doesn't sign an extension). And Brown will likely command a contract approaching $10M/year. If he isn't signed to a long-term deal, they traded away picks for nothing. The same goes for McNabb. Last year they spent a ton on Haynesworth and that blew up in their faces.

 

 

I asked for an opinion on Jermon Bushrod, the Saints' LT, because he was a RFA with a 2nd round tender. People who watched him said he was a liability and the Saints won in spite of him. So with that knowledge, and the money they have invested in Brees, why continue to trust him at LT and potentially get him "mauled," when he became the starter because Brown got injured, and they could have kept Brown?

 

 

 

$$$$, and shortsightedness. This only turns out dumb if/when Brees get crunched from the left.

 

Either that or "People who have watched him" aren't as talented at judging players as the Saints coaching staff . . .?