Question WRT The Spiller Selection

[EastRochBillsfan]

As for the answer to the original question. A. I really don't think Ralph had anything to do with the pic. And unlike some of you guys, I don't think he meddles at all. He has hired people to make the pics and seems to let them do their jobs, good or bad. Now maybe he has made bad choices on the people who have made bad choices, but that's where I think it ends.

 

As other people have stated, if this was a pic to sell tickets, then it surely would have been another player like clausen or tebow. Nix/Gailey stated that the first pic should be a difference maker. And I feel that was the bottom line with the spiller pick. He's going to give us the most bang for our buck (ralphs buck), so to speak. i think the amount of time they took to make the pic shows how much they liked him. For those of you who feel they should of taken the whole 10 minutes or whatever it was to try and make a trade, I really think these calls are made ahead of time. It really doesn't make much sense to try to hammer out a deal in only a few minutes with the pressure building up by the second. So if there was a trade offer, I think it would have been made already. would it have hurt to wait and see if anything new developed? no. I probably would have if it was my call. but its fairly obvious they got who they wanted.

 

Now Bill, I totally understand you wanting us to grab a lt. but nix, or was it gailey, said something like you just don't pick a player to put at a position that can't play it. That just compounds the problem. And that sir, and i use that term loosely-jk!, is the bottom line. you said yourself you liked the rest of the draft with them going bigger on the d-line and stuff. Unfortunaletly, like they said, you can only make one pic at a time. And there where numerous wholes to fill. So it comes down to who you like better at what position that you need to fill. And besides, read below.

 

 

 

 

I may be ripped for this but I don't think our tackles suck as Billfromnyc stated. I think we have 2 young tackles in Meredith and Bell who barring injury will pleasantly surprise this year and Cornell Green is an experienced and slightly above average tackle. we had so many injuries last year on the o line e were forced to play 3rd stringers most of the year, hopefully we will see a full year from our young tackles and watch as they grow into successful pros.

I am actually with you on this. It seems they might have the tools to be good at the position if given some time to develop. I think we can get by this year with what we have, and be a damn good running team cuz these guys can run block. And with another full year in the trenches, maybe we'll have a good player at tackle. If not, then that is our #1 priority next year.

 

 

It's amazing that in a league predicated on passing the football, the powers that be at OBD believe they can beat teams running the ball without the benefit of good play at OT. I like the guards, but both were high picks for a position that can be found later on. The center evidently had a back injury, so we'll see how he fares. Wang, Bell, Meredith, Green, et al are bargain buys and their play will dictate how the offense functions. Suffice it to say, they are all castoffs or young players not ready to start on most NFL teams.

So now we have two good guards but we picked them too high? just can't win with you billsvet. can't you just be happy we have two good guards, however attained? thats a rhetorical question. I'm sure you know what that means, but if not, i heard mpl knows what it means and can help!

[Spiderweb]

So could we all, but I for one see much merit in his comments. By rushing to make the selection, they eliminated any and all possibilities of gaining extra picks. And btw, how many running backs have you seen achieve success on a team on which every offensive tackle on the roster sucks?

It used to be pretty much only me and a few others making this claim on this board. Now, it is common knowledge in virtually every major media outlet (including TSW) that the Bills cannot block.

 

Bill, your position on the state of our offensive line is well known, and accurate. Yet, we do have two players, Levitre and Wood (coming off serious injury though) that appears to be very talented and will only get better and stronger. Their second year should be one in which they begin to blossom. Bell may turn out well, or may simply be what he showed last year, but the physical tools are there. Meredith, Calloway, and Wang could provide needed talent and at this time of the year, I prefer to be hopeful. I temper my enthusiasm, but have still some hope. At least we appear to finally have real football people making the decisions. This in and of itself, is a pleasant change.

 

Spiller could just be the type of back one simply couldn't afford to pass on. The tools are there. Once the top two tackles were gone in the draft, I agree that Spiller was the pick.

 

What has been a bit disappointing is that their are/were a couple of tackles out there that could have been very helpful, yet nothing yet has happened and doesn't appear to be forthcoming.

 

This team will need yet another strong draft and possibly one or two key FA additions before I expect to see any real success.

[Bill from NYC]

Bills running backs have gained over 1000 yards in each of the past two seasons. The problem with the O-Line is not run blocking it is in pass blocking. Spiller will be just fine running the ball.

 

Run blocking is the easy part of OL play. The blockers know the count and are able to fire out and hit defenders. It is not easy to find monsters who are big, strong, and agile enough to protect their quarterback from genetic mutants.

[Nostradumbass]

How can anyone look at the Bills drafting history and not understand Ralph Wilson's influence on the first round?

 

3 different regimes in nine years all have one thing in common, a first round pick on a RB.

 

Anyone taking over the Bills organization could see the absolute last need for the team was RB, which smart organizations will tell you is probably the last position you worry about filling anyway. Yet we take Spiller because??

 

Take a look at out 1st round picks; McKelvin, Maybin, Lynch, Spiller, Whitner, Evans... there all speed guys, Al Davis gets whacked in the media for his love of speed yet the Bills year after year ignore the fact our lines on both sides of the ball are paper thin and draft some flighty little sprite. Can all the regimes who have run Bills drafts be this stupid?

 

Anyone remember Ralph forcing Dwayne Wright on us?

 

Anyone wonder why regardless of who is in the front office, Mike Mayock will tell you the morning of the draft who the Bills are taking? Whitner called, Maybin called, Spiller called, becasue he has a pipeline to Mr.Wilson as long as he breasts his cards unitl the morning of the NFL draft.

 

The Bills front office rushed up to the podium because they had no say in the matter, their draft doesn't begin until the Bills second pick

[PromoTheRobot]

How can anyone look at the Bills drafting history and not understand Ralph Wilson's influence on the first round?

 

3 different regimes in nine years all have one thing in common, a first round pick on a RB.

 

Anyone taking over the Bills organization could see the absolute last need for the team was RB, which smart organizations will tell you is probably the last position you worry about filling anyway. Yet we take Spiller because??

 

Take a look at out 1st round picks; McKelvin, Maybin, Lynch, Spiller, Whitner, Evans... there all speed guys, Al Davis gets whacked in the media for his love of speed yet the Bills year after year ignore the fact our lines on both sides of the ball are paper thin and draft some flighty little sprite. Can all the regimes who have run Bills drafts be this stupid?

 

Anyone remember Ralph forcing Dwayne Wright on us?

 

Anyone wonder why regardless of who is in the front office, Mike Mayock will tell you the morning of the draft who the Bills are taking? Whitner called, Maybin called, Spiller called, becasue he has a pipeline to Mr.Wilson as long as he breasts his cards unitl the morning of the NFL draft.

 

The Bills front office rushed up to the podium because they had no say in the matter, their draft doesn't begin until the Bills second pick

Only when there was no one strong in the GM position to say no to Ralph. I doubt Tom Donahoe or Bill Polian caved to Ralph on picks. And I'm willing to bet Nix doesn't either because Brandon insulates him from the old man. Nevergiveup said as much that Brandon's biggest role now is to keep Ralph from meddling.

 

PTR

[The Big Cat]

It remains true the pass-blocking has been poor, with the exception of 2007. Unfortunately, running for 1000 yards doesn't automatically make the OL good at run blocking. How many times in the DJ years did the team fail to convert in short yardage situations? It didn't seem to matter whether it was home or away either.

 

Football Outsiders is a great site to gauge how a team succeeds in different situations. Here are the stats for Buffalo's OL success/failure for running and passing. It can take some getting used to, but pass pro was dead last. They were 31st in the NFL in power running situations. Buffalo knows they need more than just a faster RB.

 

Well, Buffalo did finish in the top 10 in yards per carry in 2009.

 

Sounds to me like the run blocking was serviceable, at least.

[Dr. K]

Only when there was no one strong in the GM position to say no to Ralph. I doubt Tom Donahoe or Bill Polian caved to Ralph on picks. And I'm willing to bet Nix doesn't either because Brandon insulates him from the old man. Nevergiveup said as much that Brandon's biggest role now is to keep Ralph from meddling.

 

PTR

 

+1

 

The McGahee pick, in particular, had all the earmarks of a Donohoe "I'm a genius" special. If you want to call anything a luxury pick in the last 10 years, that was the one.

 

We'll see how the Spiller choice works out. I for one am tired of hearing how the Bills should have drafted an OT in that slot, or traded down. I don't see much point in arguing about it anymore. In my opinion, at least at this point, Nix and Gailey came up with an extremely savvy 2010 draft. Whether it all works out or not I don't know. But there's no point in trying to lay choices you didn't like at the feet of Ralph Wilson when there are direct and compelling reasons (in addition to the GM and coach's repeated explanations) to understand why they chose who they did.

 

Cheers.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

As for the answer to the original question. A. I really don't think Ralph had anything to do with the pic. And unlike some of you guys, I don't think he meddles at all. He has hired people to make the pics and seems to let them do their jobs, good or bad. Now maybe he has made bad choices on the people who have made bad choices, but that's where I think it ends.

 

As other people have stated, if this was a pic to sell tickets, then it surely would have been another player like clausen or tebow. Nix/Gailey stated that the first pic should be a difference maker. And I feel that was the bottom line with the spiller pick. He's going to give us the most bang for our buck (ralphs buck), so to speak. i think the amount of time they took to make the pic shows how much they liked him. For those of you who feel they should of taken the whole 10 minutes or whatever it was to try and make a trade, I really think these calls are made ahead of time. It really doesn't make much sense to try to hammer out a deal in only a few minutes with the pressure building up by the second. So if there was a trade offer, I think it would have been made already. would it have hurt to wait and see if anything new developed? no. I probably would have if it was my call. but its fairly obvious they got who they wanted.

 

Now Bill, I totally understand you wanting us to grab a lt. but nix, or was it gailey, said something like you just don't pick a player to put at a position that can't play it. That just compounds the problem. And that sir, and i use that term loosely-jk!, is the bottom line. you said yourself you liked the rest of the draft with them going bigger on the d-line and stuff. Unfortunaletly, like they said, you can only make one pic at a time. And there where numerous wholes to fill. So it comes down to who you like better at what position that you need to fill. And besides, read below.

 

I am actually with you on this. It seems they might have the tools to be good at the position if given some time to develop. I think we can get by this year with what we have, and be a damn good running team cuz these guys can run block. And with another full year in the trenches, maybe we'll have a good player at tackle. If not, then that is our #1 priority next year.

 

So now we have two good guards but we picked them too high? just can't win with you billsvet. can't you just be happy we have two good guards, however attained? thats a rhetorical question. I'm sure you know what that means, but if not, i heard mpl knows what it means and can help!

Great post, ERBF.

 

I took exception to the "rush to the podium" myself but I agree with you and others that a lot of the parameters of these trades are hashed out in advance and the Bills were probably pretty firm that they weren't going to receive any last-minute, mind-changing trade offer.

 

As for the bolded, did you mean holes to fill or whores to fill?

[PromoTheRobot]

+1

 

The McGahee pick, in particular, had all the earmarks of a Donohoe "I'm a genius" special. If you want to call anything a luxury pick in the last 10 years, that was the one.

 

We'll see how the Spiller choice works out. I for one am tired of hearing how the Bills should have drafted an OT in that slot, or traded down. I don't see much point in arguing about it anymore. In my opinion, at least at this point, Nix and Gailey came up with an extremely savvy 2010 draft. Whether it all works out or not I don't know. But there's no point in trying to lay choices you didn't like at the feet of Ralph Wilson when there are direct and compelling reasons (in addition to the GM and coach's repeated explanations) to understand why they chose who they did.

 

Cheers.

Agree. People ignore the fact that being a #1 pick doesn't make you a stud. It doesn't even increase the likelihood all that much. Plenty of great players are drafted in lower rounds.

 

PTR

[thewildrabbit]

Let's make one thing clear can we, this pick was all Chan Gailey. He was talking about drafting a "water-bug" months before the draft. The local news did stories on Dexter McCluster and how they thought he might fill the need Gailey wanted.

 

The Spiller pick at first glance seems like a luxury pick, but then Fred Jackson is older and Lynch is a screw-up away from another suspension.

 

I think that most of the world of pro football would have had the Bills selecting an OT with that first pick, so the Spiller pick was a bit of shocker to most. I even had stated before the draft that he would be a good pick, but only if they took an OT with the #2.

 

My only problem is that the Bills didn't address the O line until round 5, and they should have drafted at least two OT's from between 1-5 JMO.

 

The Bills are still very weak on the O line and have an assistant O line coach setting up protections, plus Gailey stated he wants to use a zone blocking scheme. Gonna be an interesting year!

[Marv Levy]

as compared to the senile Levy

 

Hey.. I resent that!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sllib olaffub]

Buddy and Chan weren't drafting this year looking to put together just a one year team. None of their actions reflect the motive of trying to make a championship team now. They're building a team that will be competitive year in and out - at least, that is thier design.

 

You look at great teams, you envision how a great team would look, and then you look at what you have, especially the young guys that will be around for three plus years to contribute to this vision, and that, I think, is what Gailey and Nix did. They have talent at running back now - but Lynch isn't a lock to play even this year, if he doesn't stay out of trouble altogether, and Jackson, as good as he is, is limited. They wanted a lightning quick guy, and Spiller not only is quick, but he's stronger than most guys his size - he can run between the tackles, if need be, and he can be a reciever and a return guy. You get such a dynamic player with him, the value is off the charts. Really, it shouldn't amaze anyone they picked him - it should amaze everyone he was available.

 

You can win in this league with good defense and a good running game. Ideally you want everything, but they saw their secondary was young and talented. They saw they needed youth, size, and talent in the front seven - and they went out and got Troupe and Carrington to strengthen the 3-4 line, and when Easley was there in the 4th - a WR with elite measurables, they grabbed the guy (who I think will prove to be a really good #2WR - and who has the combination of size, speed, athleticism to make our WR corps much more versatile; we can line up big with Hardy, Easley, Nelson and Johnson - and still have speed, or we can line up quick with Evans, Nelson, Parrish, Easley and even Jackson).

 

In one year - and I know we've got to play still - but I think our coach and G.M. gave us a good foundation now for a strong, Buffalo friendly, cold weather, tough defense, and a great stable of running backs, and I believe a handful of intriguing OLB's in Maybin, Batten, and Coleman, and a great compliment to Poz in Moats.

 

We've got a lot to get excited about in what they've put together this year. Sure, by next year we'll probably be looking for a LT and a QB, and maybe a WR, maybe a DE or LB, but six months ago it was a disaster - if we can go into next offseason knowing that all we need is a QB, a LT, and maybe a DE & LB, then betwen F.A. and the draft, we should have no problems doing that. I think, after this draft, they set the foundation for the next four or five years for this team to be competitive.

[Alphadawg7]

The Bills took what appeared to be a VERY short amount of time to select Spiller on draft day. Do I have the exact time frame? No, I do not. But, they appeared to waste no time at all to make this selection. The fact that they made this selection in such haste leads me to believe that there was no interest in a trade down under any circumstances.

My question: Do you think that:

 

A) Nix and Gailey we SO certain that Spiller was the best player available that they were tripping all over themselves to make the selection? Or.....

 

B) They were ordered by Mr. Wilson to pick Spiller with the hope that a "flashy" player such as Spiller would be a great move to sell tickets in a bad economy and increase profits, and had no other option given that Mr. Wilson owns the team?

 

I could have posed this question as merely a poll, but I prefer dialogue. IMO, rounds 2-7 indicated that Nix/Gailey, who are (again, IMO) solid football men as compared to the senile Levy and idiotic Jauron, wanted to make the Bills a bigger and stronger football team. This is what the Bills need to be. I am obviously of the opinion that the selection of a small, possibly part time running back was based on asses in the seats and profit much more than actually making the Bills a better football team.

 

I would love to hear opinions on this and appreciate the dialogue.

 

I honestly think is unquestionably A...Lets look at what we know.

 

1. Gailey wanted this exact type of player, and he was undeniably the best one.

2. Gailey is very familiar with him and was torched by him in college.

3. This offense has been very bad and severly lacking in the big play department.

4. Gailey took almost the exact amount of time on every pick which was literally no time. Our picks were in as soon as we were on the clock, so the very little time it took to choose Spiller is not unusual to the way they got all their picks in.

5. He was clearly the best player on the board and their interest in him was reported leading up to the draft.

6. Spiller is a Gailey kind of player and fits what he wants to do with this offense.

 

So for me, I dont think there is really any doubt that Spiller was the pick all along if he was there and they were esctatic to take the best offensive weapon going into the draft. Spiller may also be who Ralph wanted, but I just dont buy that we drafted him because of that and not because Gailey and Nix werent looking to take him.

[Original Byrd Man]

So could we all, but I for one see much merit in his comments. By rushing to make the selection, they eliminated any and all possibilities of gaining extra picks. And btw, how many running backs have you seen achieve success on a team on which every offensive tackle on the roster sucks?

It used to be pretty much only me and a few others making this claim on this board. Now, it is common knowledge in virtually every major media outlet (including TSW) that the Bills cannot block.

I seem to recall some one named Sanders on a horrible Lions team have a fair amount of success.

[BillsVet]

So now we have two good guards but we picked them too high? just can't win with you billsvet. can't you just be happy we have two good guards, however attained? thats a rhetorical question. I'm sure you know what that means, but if not, i heard mpl knows what it means and can help!

 

This is probably not a discussion for a message board, as it'll be long winded, but here goes. Each team has a finite amount of resources and uses them in a given manner. On a football team, certain positions are more valuable than others, and the draft proves this. Premium positions like QB, LT, NT/DT, and pass rushers all typically come from the first or second rounds. And before someone attempts to conflate the argument by saying most starters come from the first round, bear in mind that plenty of guys who play positions like G, C, LB, S, RB, and WR do come from outside the top 2 rounds. There's a pretty good chance if you scout well that you can find average to good starters at these positions in rounds 3-5.

 

My point re: Wood and Levitre is (and it's been made many times, notably by BADOL) that when you take a guard or center that high, they're typically the best one in the draft. The challenge is to find average to good starters at G, C, et al lower, thus allowing your higher picks to be reserved for the premium positions. It's why there aren't punters and kickers taken on the first day.

 

Wood and Levitre were need picks in 09, because Buffalo had practically nothing at G entering the 2009 season and left FA with only Seth McKinney and a bare roster at G. It's been the Bills MO for years: let a player go in FA or trade, and fill a distinct need with rookie top draft pick. There's actually been little to no team building from 2006-2009. Maybe Nix changes this, but it's a huge challenge.

 

I think Wood and Levitre will be solid pros, and they're guys I want on the Bills. There isn't much wrong with the players. Problem is, management forced themselves to find instant starters by not having a solution on the roster at G. It's another fine example of inept management, the result of people like Russ Brandon and Marv Levy moonlighting as GM. And here's the scary thing: RW hired both of them. That's why I need to see something out of Nix before anointing him the savior like people did in 08 when Marv had just left.

[Ramius]

Definitely choice A.

 

You're the only one spouting this asinine "Ralph made the pick to sell tickets" theory. No one else believes it. Its been debunked the dozen or so times you've posted it since the draft, and it will be debunked in the dozen or so times you post it again before the season starts.

[Lurker]

I would love to hear opinions on this

The offseason is too long...

[bills7834]

Stats don't always reflect the status of a unit. The Bills did have a gaudy ypc average. But a large portion of that particular stat was derived in the second half of many games when the opposition was winning and willing to loosen up their defense and allow us to run and keep the clock running.

 

If the OL is adept at run blocking and not pass blocking then the line play is inadequate. If the OL is adept at pass blocking and not run blocking then the line play is again inadequate.

 

Will our OL perform better this year even without major upgrades at the tackle positions? It could if the offense is better coached and designed. If the qb play improves that certainly will upgrade the performance of the line.

I thought the Bills were tied or lead in the 4th quarter 14 out of 16 games last year. If the Bills were able to run well in the second half of games last year like you suggest I think they would have won a lot more games.

 

I also don't buy that the NFL is built for passing only that some have suggested. If you can run the ball down the oppostion's throat at will you will win a lot more games then you lose.

[Pilsner]

This is probably not a discussion for a message board, as it'll be long winded, but here goes. Each team has a finite amount of resources and uses them in a given manner. On a football team, certain positions are more valuable than others, and the draft proves this. Premium positions like QB, LT, NT/DT, and pass rushers all typically come from the first or second rounds. And before someone attempts to conflate the argument by saying most starters come from the first round, bear in mind that plenty of guys who play positions like G, C, LB, S, RB, and WR do come from outside the top 2 rounds. There's a pretty good chance if you scout well that you can find average to good starters at these positions in rounds 3-5.

 

My point re: Wood and Levitre is (and it's been made many times, notably by BADOL) that when you take a guard or center that high, they're typically the best one in the draft. The challenge is to find average to good starters at G, C, et al lower, thus allowing your higher picks to be reserved for the premium positions. It's why there aren't punters and kickers taken on the first day.

 

Wood and Levitre were need picks in 09, because Buffalo had practically nothing at G entering the 2009 season and left FA with only Seth McKinney and a bare roster at G. It's been the Bills MO for years: let a player go in FA or trade, and fill a distinct need with rookie top draft pick. There's actually been little to no team building from 2006-2009. Maybe Nix changes this, but it's a huge challenge.

 

I think Wood and Levitre will be solid pros, and they're guys I want on the Bills. There isn't much wrong with the players. Problem is, management forced themselves to find instant starters by not having a solution on the roster at G. It's another fine example of inept management, the result of people like Russ Brandon and Marv Levy moonlighting as GM. And here's the scary thing: RW hired both of them. That's why I need to see something out of Nix before anointing him the savior like people did in 08 when Marv had just left.

 

We all want to find out if Nix is the savior for our team. Each and every one of us wants to find out. friggin only time will tell though. But i have more optimism now than i ever did with Jauron. How bout u?

[Bflojohn]

Buddy Nix is nothing but a square shooter and he stated after the draft that there were TWO offensive left tackles that his scouting department said were good enough to insert year one. In my view both exited with earlier picks by Washington @4 (Trent Williams) and Seattle @6 (Russell Okung) before the Bills picked! That clearly indicates to me that Bulaga and Davis, in their minds, were NOT ready to assume the mantle of starting OLT in Buffalo. The comment about NOT adding players who can't play either, to a position that needs upgrading, was a telling bit of information before the draft by Nix and crew. In other words adding another player who can't play compounds the problem!! Maybe they collectively looked at film of Trent Edwards in January and February and decided IF he is prone to dump offs, let's get him a target that can go the distance, so as to make that throw a potent weapon. Lastly, C. J. Spiller has a stat that blows me away so here goes... Spiller had 21 TD's at Clemson of 50 yards or more! EXPLOSIVE, Versatile, and dynamic! What more do you want out of a rookie prospect?