Dave_In_Norfolk Posted June 18, 2010 Posted June 18, 2010 Which are all good points, so why pick $20bn? Why not $100bn? Why not $3bn? The government has a responsibility to enforce the laws that it has on the books. The Executive Branch does not make laws on the fly, no matter how unpalatable the issue (at least it doesn't, oops, shouldn't happen in America) So it's not a stretch to invoke broad citings of the Constitution to see what rights my have been infringed. So,basically, it's ok to to scream "constitutional violations," when you have no other ground to stand on. Ya, when you are wrong, free speech is still free. And be careful about saying "broad" constitutional issue in this case,people that actually know the implications of that term will laugh at your obvious ignorance. I did. Oh,and the executive branch didn't make any laws by having the "guilty" party agree to set up an escrow account. They just reached an agreement. Is the Constitution against agreements,too?
LeviF Posted June 18, 2010 Posted June 18, 2010 You make me physically ill. Does he really? Racists have never had that effect on me. I tend to just laugh. One person has made me physically ill, by talking, in my life.
PromoTheRobot Posted June 18, 2010 Posted June 18, 2010 Tomorrow Barton plans on apologizing to the Taliban because Obama is picking on them. PTR
erynthered Posted June 18, 2010 Posted June 18, 2010 on Barton's facebook status he posts: http://www.facebook.com/RepJoeBarton?v=wal...130316913655840 The freaking idiot cannot get politics out of his head in such a tragedy that he going to attack Obama for making BP pay. But then again he has received over $1.4 million in campaign financing for the oil industry throughout his career http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/ind...m=N&recs=20 . We really need to get rid of these pigs in congress and elect people with integrity http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...t&p=1884892
Booster4324 Posted June 18, 2010 Posted June 18, 2010 Does he really? Racists have never had that effect on me. I tend to just laugh. One person has made me physically ill, by talking, in my life. Why do you keep bringing that up? I said I am sorry. As to Tom's comment, damn, is it me or did it get cold in here?
RkFast Posted June 18, 2010 Posted June 18, 2010 I thought I was clear: strong-arming someone into paying something based on the presumption they wouldn't pay later is not right. It's a shakedown, period. There's no legal or judicial basis for it. It has nothing to do with whether or not I think they'd pay. It's about what I think the government's roles and responsibilities are - namely, that they absolutely do not include the unfettered right to levy arbitrary judgements solely by executive fiat. And thats probably another reason why the CEO zipped his lip like he did yesterday. All he had to do is say one wrong thing and the US Government would put BP on the hook for who knows how many billions more. I know, I know....."!@#$ BP!!!!! DRIVE THEM INTO THE GROUND!!!!!!" Whatever.
GG Posted June 18, 2010 Posted June 18, 2010 So,basically, it's ok to to scream "constitutional violations," when you have no other ground to stand on. Ya, when you are wrong, free speech is still free. And be careful about saying "broad" constitutional issue in this case,people that actually know the implications of that term will laugh at your obvious ignorance. I did. Oh,and the executive branch didn't make any laws by having the "guilty" party agree to set up an escrow account. They just reached an agreement. Is the Constitution against agreements,too? What part of extortion is difficult to comprehend? Obama's actions and language have approximated more Tony Soprano than FDR or JFK, if you care to pick great Dem Presidents. There has nothing that BP has done since the accident to think that they would walk away from their full responsibility, so to shake them down in public, while not really accomplishing anything tangible, is like coating glass with chocolate for the window lickers.
erynthered Posted June 18, 2010 Posted June 18, 2010 What part of extortion is difficult to comprehend? Obama's actions and language have approximated more Tony Soprano than FDR or JFK, if you care to pick great Dem Presidents. There has nothing that BP has done since the accident to think that they would walk away from their full responsibility, so to shake them down in public, while not really accomplishing anything tangible, is like coating glass with chocolate for the window lickers.
IDBillzFan Posted June 18, 2010 Posted June 18, 2010 What part of extortion is difficult to comprehend? Obama's actions and language have approximated more Tony Soprano than FDR or JFK, if you care to pick great Dem Presidents. There has nothing that BP has done since the accident to think that they would walk away from their full responsibility, so to shake them down in public, while not really accomplishing anything tangible, is like coating glass with chocolate for the window lickers. The $20B fund is red meat for the left. It makes the news this week, along with yesterday's photo op, but the reason this administration is failing so miserably at this crisis is not because it was slow to notice it, but because it is slow to address the actual problem. Y'see, while the escrow account is set up, and congressfolks spend the day in photo ops chastising the face of the disaster, there's one thing everyone seems to have forgotten: THE OIL IS STILL HEADED TO SHORE and efforts by this administation to act aggressively to battle this inevitable truth will overshadow any escrow account in the coming weeks. They refuse to waive The Jones Act. They refuse countries who may have solutions help us out. Hell, yesterday the Coast Guard held up barges Louisiana from cleaning up oil to ensure there were enough life jackets on the boats. But look everyone! We got $20B dollars! Woo-hoo!
RkFast Posted June 18, 2010 Posted June 18, 2010 The $20B fund is red meat for the left. It makes the news this week, along with yesterday's photo op, but the reason this administration is failing so miserably at this crisis is not because it was slow to notice it, but because it is slow to address the actual problem. Y'see, while the escrow account is set up, and congressfolks spend the day in photo ops chastising the face of the disaster, there's one thing everyone seems to have forgotten: THE OIL IS STILL HEADED TO SHORE and efforts by this administation to act aggressively to battle this inevitable truth will overshadow any escrow account in the coming weeks. They refuse to waive The Jones Act. They refuse countries who may have solutions help us out. Hell, yesterday the Coast Guard held up barges Louisiana from cleaning up oil to ensure there were enough life jackets on the boats. But look everyone! We got $20B dollars! Woo-hoo! Whats truly scary about this regime is how it pushes aside any offer of help or cooperation to help solve a problem. Instead of working WITH BP, they completely turned the whole country against them, to the point that BP's efforts at a fix may be very well undermined. And the turning down of help, I do not understand at all. Theres GOT to be SOME reason why. Same this with the AZ law. Today its being reported that the Governor of AZ found out that the Administration announced a pending lawsuit against the law......on Ecuadorian TV. WTF. But this sis what you get hwen you have a "Community Organizer" running things....an "us against them mentality." The deominzing of anyone that stands in their way. Wasnt this what the left LOATHED about Bush?
Chef Jim Posted June 18, 2010 Posted June 18, 2010 Since you are so sure BP will pay then why are you upset that we made them put up $20B? Sounds like the'd gladly fork over the money anyway. PTR Because it's like two lawyers arguing after a car crash about how much the auto company should pay the victims families while the occupants of the car bleed out on the sidewalk. There's a time a place and a method and this is neither the time, the venue nor the process.
IDBillzFan Posted June 18, 2010 Posted June 18, 2010 Because it's like two lawyers arguing after a car crash about how much the auto company should pay the victims families while the occupants of the car bleed out on the sidewalk. There's a time a place and a method and this is neither the time, the venue nor the process. Make no mistake: $20B makes a great cover for incompetence. But only for so long. The problem with thinking that "money solves everything" is that ultimately and inevitably that thinking is proven wrong. The oil is still coming to shore. No one is doing anything to stop it. THAT will overtake the $20B in short order.
justnzane Posted June 18, 2010 Author Posted June 18, 2010 Make no mistake: $20B makes a great cover for incompetence. But only for so long. The problem with thinking that "money solves everything" is that ultimately and inevitably that thinking is proven wrong. The oil is still coming to shore. No one is doing anything to stop it. THAT will overtake the $20B in short order. that is the sad part where the oil industry as a whole should have had legit plans to plug and contain such a leak as opposed to lowballing the numbers and letting the carnage ensue. Furthermore, if they had maintained their equipment to a high standard chances are that this incident wouldn't have happened. For the others who are saying that due process would have been enough, Are you kidding me? Devastating the wildlife due to your apathy deserves severe penalty, financial and possible criminal.
DC Tom Posted June 18, 2010 Posted June 18, 2010 For the others who are saying that due process would have been enough, Are you kidding me? Devastating the wildlife due to your apathy deserves severe penalty, financial and possible criminal. Via due process.
IDBillzFan Posted June 18, 2010 Posted June 18, 2010 that is the sad part where the oil industry as a whole should have had legit plans to plug and contain such a leak as opposed to lowballing the numbers and letting the carnage ensue. Furthermore, if they had maintained their equipment to a high standard chances are that this incident wouldn't have happened. For the others who are saying that due process would have been enough, Are you kidding me? Devastating the wildlife due to your apathy deserves severe penalty, financial and possible criminal. "Well, BP said the numbers weren't that bad at first," is not justification for government incompetence. I know it's being spun that way, and I know it probably sounds good when the heat is on, but at the end of the day, it's the leadership equivalent of a minimum wage employee being asked to do something and responding wth "Well, I'd like to, but that's not my job." I'm not sure if it's a phrase used through the various software worlds, but in the little world I work in, we use phrase; "chasing the scope." Essentially, we're given a scope of work outlining how the software should function when it's written. Many times the top level people putting the project together look at the project, think they have an understanding of how it should work, and never put out a detailed scope. This, of course, leaves many small, but significant parts, of the program open to interpretation. When the initial rev is delivered, the customer initially says "Yes, that's what I wanted," until they start operating the software, at which time you hear the painfully inevitable words, "This is nice, but you know what it's missing?" In the worst scenarios, the programmer makes the change, and all is well until the customer finds the next thing that's missing. Then the next. Then the next. And suddenly you're working in circles with no end in sight because there was never a detailed plan of what was really wanted in the first place. That's what I'm watching with this administration. It's not working on a plan, so it has no goal to accomplish beyhond "plug the damn hole" and "know who's ass to kick." It's throwing people and money at every little issue that arises, responding defensively and not pre-emptively, and as a result, you're seeing what you always see when people start chasing a scope: incompetence and stupidity on full display, to the extent that the only thing left to do is be first in line to start casting blame. Enter yesterday's hearings. And that is a small example of what happens when you hire someone for a job they are naturally unqualified to perform.
Dave_In_Norfolk Posted June 18, 2010 Posted June 18, 2010 What part of extortion is difficult to comprehend? Obama's actions and language have approximated more Tony Soprano than FDR or JFK, if you care to pick great Dem Presidents. There has nothing that BP has done since the accident to think that they would walk away from their full responsibility, so to shake them down in public, while not really accomplishing anything tangible, is like coating glass with chocolate for the window lickers. You are just a mindless tool. This post is just so incredibly stupid. Extortion? Really? How many times has the mob picked on someone that actually deserved to pay? If you actually believe this crap you are the dumbest SOB in the world.
justnzane Posted June 18, 2010 Author Posted June 18, 2010 Via due process. criminal sure. financially sanctioned, hell no. This would stay in appeals so long that the Cubs will win a world series, the Bills a Super Bowl, and the Clippers the O'Brien trophy before this ever exited litigation. Meanwhile, the toll on the gulf region would be so much that it would do more long term damage to new orleans than Katrina.
DC Tom Posted June 18, 2010 Posted June 18, 2010 criminal sure. financially sanctioned, hell no. This would stay in appeals so long that the Cubs will win a world series, the Bills a Super Bowl, and the Clippers the O'Brien trophy before this ever exited litigation. Meanwhile, the toll on the gulf region would be so much that it would do more long term damage to new orleans than Katrina. So your argument for arbitrarily dismissing the legal basis underpinning our government is...timeliness???
GG Posted June 18, 2010 Posted June 18, 2010 You are just a mindless tool. This post is just so incredibly stupid. Extortion? Really? How many times has the mob picked on someone that actually deserved to pay? If you actually believe this crap you are the dumbest SOB in the world. The mob is indiscriminate in its target, similar to the POTUS who's indiscriminate in his targeting of business when he disagrees with them. But at the expense of being redundant again, this is a country of laws, which is what sets it apart from the cacophony of many other nations. BP committed a horrible mistake that caused a catastrophic reaction, which they need to fix and are fully liable for. But, nothing that has transpired so far shows that BP is walking away from its responsibility and the only thing the escrow account did was a sop to the simpleminded. BTW, has DC Tom mentioned due process yet?
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