What Marshawn Missed

[PDaDdy]

This is not basketball or futbol my friend. There are no Durant's, Kobe's, Wade's, or Lebron's out there. There are no Messi's, Ronaldo's, or Ronaldino's. Lynch is not the better "scorer" and Lynch is not the better pure runner. That is the truth. Lynch's dancing around and indecisiveness with the ball in his hands is what has done him in, along with the pass dropping ability, and FJ has taken the starting role. FJ makes one cut, hits the hole, and gets what he can like I pointed out in my last post. Lynch's YPC would be better if he would hit the opening that's there. I can recall on numerous occasions the announcers questioning Lynch's running because he was missing some fairly large holes that could've resulted in big chunks of yardage time and time again, but instyead he would dance around and end up with 2 or three yards where he should've had five or six.

 

 

Tell me again how the guy that scored more points is not the better scorer? DEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRR! I have no idea what you are talking about with your basketball reference but Lynch is the better guy. Jackson is the better receiver. You also have to understand where the line comes into play. Given our terrible line play that last 3 years there aren't a lot of holes to run through if you haven't noticed while watching every game for 30 years. Fred at 29 IS a better cut back runner and better man in my opinion compared to Lynch at 25.

 

On the occasion when there is good blocking Lynch's talent shines above Fred's in my opinion. Lynch has missed some holes. So has Fred. It is conjecture as to who has missed more. I would give the favorable nod to Jackson though. He is a cut back runner after all. Lynch is the work horse, will not be denied, RB. As stated Fred is a better WR hence my statement of Lynch being the better pure RB and more importantly scorer.

 

So I guess what I am hearing from you is that if the 24 year old Lynch learns to hit the holes better not only will he score more TDs but he will score WAY WAY WAY more TDs than Fred. That is great hope for the future! Here's to Lynch developing the experience and off field maturity of the 29 year old Jackson!!!

[thebug]

Tell me again how the guy that scored more points is not the better scorer? DEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRR! I have no idea what you are talking about with your basketball reference but Lynch is the better guy. Jackson is the better receiver. You also have to understand where the line comes into play. Given our terrible line play that last 3 years there aren't a lot of holes to run through if you haven't noticed while watching every game for 30 years. Fred at 29 IS a better cut back runner and better man in my opinion compared to Lynch at 25.

 

On the occasion when there is good blocking Lynch's talent shines above Fred's in my opinion. Lynch has missed some holes. So has Fred. It is conjecture as to who has missed more. I would give the favorable nod to Jackson though. He is a cut back runner after all. Lynch is the work horse, will not be denied, RB. As stated Fred is a better WR hence my statement of Lynch being the better pure RB and more importantly scorer.

 

So I guess what I am hearing from you is that if the 24 year old Lynch learns to hit the holes better not only will he score more TDs but he will score WAY WAY WAY more TDs than Fred. That is great hope for the future! Here's to Lynch developing the experience and off field maturity of the 29 year old Jackson!!!

 

 

Exactly, so how is Jackson not the better scorer? (from last year)

[Rob's House]

You mean the best on the field right? Worst off of it no doubt but how can you argue against his performance? How many rushing TDs did Fred get last year?

 

How many did Marshawn have last year?

[H2o]

Tell me again how the guy that scored more points is not the better scorer? DEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRR! I have no idea what you are talking about with your basketball reference but Lynch is the better guy. Jackson is the better receiver. You also have to understand where the line comes into play. Given our terrible line play that last 3 years there aren't a lot of holes to run through if you haven't noticed while watching every game for 30 years. Fred at 29 IS a better cut back runner and better man in my opinion compared to Lynch at 25.

 

On the occasion when there is good blocking Lynch's talent shines above Fred's in my opinion. Lynch has missed some holes. So has Fred. It is conjecture as to who has missed more. I would give the favorable nod to Jackson though. He is a cut back runner after all. Lynch is the work horse, will not be denied, RB. As stated Fred is a better WR hence my statement of Lynch being the better pure RB and more importantly scorer.

 

So I guess what I am hearing from you is that if the 24 year old Lynch learns to hit the holes better not only will he score more TDs but he will score WAY WAY WAY more TDs than Fred. That is great hope for the future! Here's to Lynch developing the experience and off field maturity of the 29 year old Jackson!!!

You're a lost cause bro. There are no "scorers" in football is the point I was making. There are playmakers, but no "scorers". DEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRR! Lynch is not the "better" back of the two, he's just the younger and I'd say faster of the two. His TD totals came behind the other OL's as forementioned.

[PDaDdy]

Exactly, so how is Jackson not the better scorer? (from last year)

 

Lynch 120 carries 2 TDs

Jackson 238 carries 2 TDs (All in a blow out win against Miami)

 

Uh....you already know the rest about 2007 & 2008

 

That's how Jackson is not the better scorer

[PDaDdy]

How many did Marshawn have last year?

 

 

As I told the Bug:

 

Lynch 120 carries 2 TDs

Jackson 238 carries 2 TDs (All in a blow out win against Miami)

 

Uh....you already know the rest about 2007 & 2008

[PDaDdy]

You're a lost cause bro. There are no "scorers" in football is the point I was making. There are playmakers, but no "scorers". DEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRR! Lynch is not the "better" back of the two, he's just the younger and I'd say faster of the two. His TD totals came behind the other OL's as forementioned.

 

If there are no scorers in football who takes that ball into the end zone??? Oh...that's right...the scorer. And.....DEEEEEERRRRRRR!

 

Did you really take a look at the statement you made? In bold.

 

His TDs came when he was the STARTER behind equally as crappy offensive lines. How did Jackson do when he was the STARTER? Keep it real man. You know the starter is the guy that gets the carries to get going. We have seen what each has done when they have had the opportunity to be "the man".

 

Keep hating though..don't let the facts and stats get in the way. I like them both ON THE FIELD. If only you had the objectivity to admit the same.

[Rob's House]

As I told the Bug:

 

Lynch 120 carries 2 TDs

Jackson 238 carries 2 TDs (All in a blow out win against Miami)

 

Uh....you already know the rest about 2007 & 2008

 

Wow, so you're saying if Lynch had double the carries he might well have had 4 tds. Let's get his bust ready for Canton. Before we get down on our knees for this guy let's consider this:

 

Thomas Jones had 1 TD on 310 carries in 2007. Then he had 13 and 14 in 2008 and 2009.

 

Your sample of 1 season of 238 carries as your indisputable evidence that FJ can't score is garbage.

 

P.S. If you include receiving TDs Jackson doubled Lynch's TD production.

[PDaDdy]

Wow, so you're saying if Lynch had double the carries he might well have had 4 tds. Let's get his bust ready for Canton. Before we get down on our knees for this guy let's consider this:

 

Thomas Jones had 1 TD on 310 carries in 2007. Then he had 13 and 14 in 2008 and 2009.

 

Your sample of 1 season of 238 carries as your indisputable evidence that FJ can't score is garbage.

 

P.S. If you include receiving TDs Jackson doubled Lynch's TD production.

 

If you think a projected 4 TDs is crap on 240 carries what do you think about 2 TDs on 238 which is what Jackson actually got? If you had any integrity you would admit that is crap and is not acceptable either. Talk about the bust not being ready for Canton. *sheesh*

 

Nobody is getting down on their knees for anybody..Lynch OR Jackson. My sample size is 3 seasons thank you very much. I have repeatedly included 2007 & 2008 when the roles were reversed. This is also why the goal line, "opportunity" argument doesn't hold water either. There have been the same roles for the last 3 years. The only difference is that in 2009 they switched spots.

 

Try reading the posts some time. I have readily offered that Jackson is the better WR of the two. No argument there.

 

By the way. When did Thomas Jones play for the Bills? I don't recall. Different guy, different team, etc. Not really a valid comparison no?

[NewEra]

Let it go already! We understand how you feel. Obviously rushing TD's are the only way to judge RB's.

 

No, the only way to judge a RB are by his off-field problems. obviously.

[NewEra]

Tell me again how the guy that scored more points is not the better scorer? DEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRR! I have no idea what you are talking about with your basketball reference but Lynch is the better guy. Jackson is the better receiver. You also have to understand where the line comes into play. Given our terrible line play that last 3 years there aren't a lot of holes to run through if you haven't noticed while watching every game for 30 years. Fred at 29 IS a better cut back runner and better man in my opinion compared to Lynch at 25.

 

On the occasion when there is good blocking Lynch's talent shines above Fred's in my opinion. Lynch has missed some holes. So has Fred. It is conjecture as to who has missed more. I would give the favorable nod to Jackson though. He is a cut back runner after all. Lynch is the work horse, will not be denied, RB. As stated Fred is a better WR hence my statement of Lynch being the better pure RB and more importantly scorer.

 

So I guess what I am hearing from you is that if the 24 year old Lynch learns to hit the holes better not only will he score more TDs but he will score WAY WAY WAY more TDs than Fred. That is great hope for the future! Here's to Lynch developing the experience and off field maturity of the 29 year old Jackson!!!

 

While I think that Fred was definitely the better back last year and may be this year, I'd take Lynch over Fred on the goal line.

 

Trading Lynch is not worth a 4th-5th round pick. keep him buddy.

[thebug]

No, the only way to judge a RB are by his off-field problems. obviously.

 

 

Well if his "off the field" problems keep him off the field, that's a problem. Obviously.

[Matt in KC]

News flash jack ass Wood is an o-lineman. He blocks for the guys that run for TDs. Glad I could clear that up for you.

My point was meant to be absurd (which is why I flagged it as such). TDs as the end-all-be-all for assessing a player in any position does not really make sense. Talent getting first downs or TDs is indeed a valuable skill, but it's nowhere near the whole story when viewed in isolation.

 

 

Because individuals score points. Teams win games. Get it now?

Yes, now we're getting somewhere. What are those things the rest of the team does to help win? Do the RBs do anything that helps the team win besides score TDs? Are receptions or blitz pick ups important?

 

 

As already stated if you watched the games Buffalo did not have a work horse/goal line RB situation. Both had opportunities all over the field. Jackson does many things well. Lynch scores more TDs. End of story.

 

My defense of Lynch is based on how many times he scores not how many opportunities. Jackson was the starter. He had more opportunities!!!!! How would you like the stats normalized? TDs per carry? TDs per game? TDs per what? Get back to me when you get those numbers and you will see Lynch is the better scorer. There were no "and goal" stats that I saw. Jackson had plenty of opportunities. Hell...let's entertain your absurd idea. If Jackson is the better back... why take out your best back with "goal to go"? Sounds kind of dumb doesn't it?

 

Here's a good rehash of the "and goal" stats (and more) I was referencing:Lynch-Goal Line Specialist? thread:

Kingfish posted this a few days ago:

 

"Lynch scored more TDs because he has had far more "and goal" carries then Fred Jackson has. Over his career Marshawn has had 46 "and goal" carries and has converted 10 (21.7%) of them while Freddy has 18 "and goal" carries and converted on 3 attempts (16.7%).

 

He's better than Freddy around the goal line but not by that much."

 

I bring this up because it has suddenly become popular to state that Marshawn is a vastly superior short yardage and goal line runner than Fred is. However if you take Marshawn's 21.7% and factor that into Freddy's 18 "and goal" carries, Freddy would have only 1 more touchdown than he did (4 to 3).

 

Kingfish further pointed out:

 

"If you go to Lynch or Jackson's Yahoo profile and look under situational stats you can find it. Another interesting stat of Lynch's in 2009 was how fast he wore down after his 5th carry-

 

Carries 1-5, 5.0 YPC

6-10, 2.7 YPC

11-15, 2.5 YPC

16-20, 2.5 YPC

 

Compared to Freddy

 

1-5, 3.8

6-10, 4.5

11-15, 4.8

16-20, 3.1

21-25, 6.8

26-30, 10.4

31+, 2.3

 

And people think it's no big deal that Lynch isn't reporting to "voluntary" OTA's when conditioning clearly derailed his 2009 season?"

 

This last point seems to underscore the long held belief that Lynch was in bad physical condition last year and raises the legitimate concern that his non-participation in OTAs might be a recipe for again being out of shape.

So yes, I'll concede that Lynch scored TDs 5% more than Jackson when given "and goal" opportunities. And yes, perhaps the coaches gave him more opportunities because they thought he'd have a beter chance of scoring.

[H2o]

If there are no scorers in football who takes that ball into the end zone??? Oh...that's right...the scorer. And.....DEEEEEERRRRRRR!

 

Did you really take a look at the statement you made? In bold.

 

His TDs came when he was the STARTER behind equally as crappy offensive lines. How did Jackson do when he was the STARTER? Keep it real man. You know the starter is the guy that gets the carries to get going. We have seen what each has done when they have had the opportunity to be "the man".

 

Keep hating though..don't let the facts and stats get in the way. I like them both ON THE FIELD. If only you had the objectivity to admit the same.

How old are you, seriously? I already said I've supported Lynch (not the off the field fiascos though) and wear his jersey. I guess that's considered hating. Jackson's numbers came behind the youngest, most inexperienced line IN THE LEAGUE last year. Lynch's came behind far different. Peters, Dockery, whoever, Butler, and Walker were clearly better than the product put on the field last year. A blind man could see that. I've laid out everything before you yet you continue with your flawed, off target "touchdowns and scorer" temper tantrums. How many times have you heard someone talk about football and say "man that guy's a great scorer", besides the one you look at in the mirror? Uhhhh none. I know I haven't. We could get just as many TD's out of McIntyre as we do Lynch if we used him the same way. Lynch is not a "home run hitter" on the field, that's why we drafted Spiller. Lynch is an average power back who has been outplayed by his counterpart and now finds himself buried on the depth chart. Reality versus your perception makes you seem a little unstable.

[stuckincincy]

My point was meant to be absurd (which is why I flagged it as such). TDs as the end-all-be-all for assessing a player in any position does not really make sense. Talent getting first downs or TDs is indeed a valuable skill, but it's nowhere near the whole story when viewed in isolation.

 

Yes, now we're getting somewhere. What are those things the rest of the team does to help win? Do the RBs do anything that helps the team win besides score TDs? Are receptions or blitz pick ups important?

 

Here's a good rehash of the "and goal" stats (and more) I was referencing:Lynch-Goal Line Specialist? thread:

 

So yes, I'll concede that Lynch scored TDs 5% more than Jackson when given "and goal" opportunities. And yes, perhaps the coaches gave him more opportunities because they thought he'd have a beter chance of scoring.

 

WMG has 26 rush tds and 3 pass tds since we traded him. And he was a part-timer his last 2 years. Ouch!

[PDaDdy]

No, the only way to judge a RB are by his off-field problems. obviously.

 

LOL!

[Rob's House]

If you think a projected 4 TDs is crap on 240 carries what do you think about 2 TDs on 238 which is what Jackson actually got? If you had any integrity you would admit that is crap and is not acceptable either. Talk about the bust not being ready for Canton. *sheesh*

 

Nobody is getting down on their knees for anybody..Lynch OR Jackson. My sample size is 3 seasons thank you very much. I have repeatedly included 2007 & 2008 when the roles were reversed. This is also why the goal line, "opportunity" argument doesn't hold water either. There have been the same roles for the last 3 years. The only difference is that in 2009 they switched spots.

 

Try reading the posts some time. I have readily offered that Jackson is the better WR of the two. No argument there.

 

By the way. When did Thomas Jones play for the Bills? I don't recall. Different guy, different team, etc. Not really a valid comparison no?

 

Regarding the Thomas Jones comparison: TD totals from 1 season are not necessarily indicative of a RB's ability. A principle that is not team specific.

 

As far as TD totals, My argument isn't that Lynch sucks for his TD totals, but rather, neither guy has much to tout in the catagory, and using those meager #s as the sole basis for your argument is weak. Especially considering that FJ always has higher YPC, and had 4 TDs (including rec tds) to ML's 2.

 

Your argument of past years falls a little flat since FJ had 3 TDs to Lynch's 8 in 2008 despite Lynch having over double the carries and (I don't care what you say, it's true) the overwhelming majority of the red zone carries.

 

My main point is simply that your "Lynch is better at scoring TDs" argument is less than conclusive.

[34-78-83]

Absolutely 100% correct. A voice of reason who doesn't have his eyes closed when it comes to the RBs performance on field. I LOVE all 3. Haters need to get over it.

 

I like all 3 too , but who scores more TD's is a bunk measure. Sorry.

Butch Rolle was a TD machine and sucked.

Put the short yardage guy in down by the goal line..makes sense

Freddy sees the holes and whole field much better.

Spiller will start off as (hopefully) a great change of pace guy.

[Pete]

What Marshawn Missed

20 pedestrians?

[BillsfaninFl]

I'm sorry to the haters, but I like Lynch and want him on the team. I love his attitude on the field.. he loves football, loves the contact, loves the game. Sure the guy has been a little immature.. I know I was when I was 24.. This guy has a long football career ahead of him and I hope it's in Buffalo. Last year he was all smiles and this year he seems like he wants to get to serious business. I hope we carry 4 RB's on the active.. Lynch, Jackson, Spiller and Bell.

 

So a few words from Lynch and suddenly he is excited to be here and now he is going to be all about football. You believe that crap that everyone says, instead of the fact that he didn't come in until he had to?