afc east team comparison

[Cynical]

So you're saying that Fewell's defense never went into a shell with the lead in any games? Fewell never played scared and went to the prevent defense in any game? Nevermind that Special Teams failed to do their job and recover the ball.

 

Never said that.

But the article never states how the same defense picked off Romo 5 times with 2 going for TDs, and the special teams scoring 1 TD and 1 FG.

 

Hell, the reason the Bills were even in position to win the game was due to the defense and special teams.

After the game, Romo stated the Bills defense was doing things he never saw before, and it confused him. That's why he threw 5 picks.

 

As for not recovering the onside kick, is that the fault of the special teams coach or the fault of the players on the field?

 

I don't have a problem with questioning the competency of the coaching under Jauron. Hell, I was one of the most vocal Jauron critics on this board. But every close loss was not due to poor coaching, as Real Football 365 is implying.

 

Robert Royal's failure to get his foot in bounds is a coaching fault? I would be willing to bet if we watched that game we could find clear and better examples of coaching gaffes, but Royal's foot is not one of them.

[mike oxhurtz]

Never said that.

But the article never states how the same defense picked off Romo 5 times with 2 going for TDs, and the special teams scoring 1 TD and 1 FG.

 

Hell, the reason the Bills were even in position to win the game was due to the defense and special teams.

After the game, Romo stated the Bills defense was doing things he never saw before, and it confused him. That's why he threw 5 picks.

 

As for not recovering the onside kick, is that the fault of the special teams coach or the fault of the players on the field?

 

I don't have a problem with questioning the competency of the coaching under Jauron. Hell, I was one of the most vocal Jauron critics on this board. But every close loss was not due to poor coaching, as Real Football 365 is implying.

 

Robert Royal's failure to get his foot in bounds is a coaching fault? I would be willing to bet if we watched that game we could find clear and better examples of coaching gaffes, but Royal's foot is not one of them.

 

My biggest problem was once the Bills had a lead, they quit applying pressure to the QB and went to the prevent defense. I don't know if that was Fewell's decision or Jauron's, but it failed on multiple occassions.

[FLFan]

I started a longer reply but man, this post equating Sanchez to any QB on the Bills, Leodis to Revis, as well as Evans to Edwards is just plain silly.

Season Team Passing Rushing Fumbles

G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate Att Yds Avg TD FUM Lost

15 15 196 364 53.8 2,444 6.7 12 20 26 195 63.0 36 106 2.9 3 10 3

 

 

So what is your point about Sanchez - that he is far superior to any Bills QB? Maybe someday, but it seems you are buying the hype and not the facts as indicated above. Marky Marks stats from last year are actually worse than any Bills QB. Evans is twice the receiver Edwards is based on accomplishment. Revis is a great player and we do not know about McKelvin yet. The Jest are over-hyped, especially the pretty boy SoCal QB. Maybe he will improve this year, maybe not. He certainly has the pedegree and the hype, but was fortunate to start his career on a team and in a system where he was not expected to be the difference maker, and was not.

[milehiLou]

They are over hyped...I give the Jets credit they got a little favorable bounce and rode the momentum. The biggest difference to me is the coaching staff. Jauron's group were outcoached every game win or lose most times not even allowing them to compete on offense. Watch how much "better" the line is with Gailey at the controls. I think we are about 7-9 talent but Gailey makes up for it 9-7 and if you can get to 9-7 10-6 is within reach. Phins slide back...Patriots slide back...Jets are the wildcard. If you think LT has anything left and the Cromartie is a great player thats why the Chargers traded him maybe they go 12-4 I don't buy either one hello 10-6. Best Division record takes it

coaching makes the difference between winning and losing, they are all talent laden teams. im not saying Gailey will be the next bill parcells, but he was just in the NCAA which to me makes me think he will have a better handle on how to coach up this young team.

 

to say dick jauron was detatched would be a serious understatement. you cant tell me a team that was 7-9 couldnt improve to 8-8 in any season, all the while supposedly "filling in holes" with the draft and f/ agency. if gailey doesnt improve the win total of the bills right out of the gate i will eat 100 wings on you tube. (such torture)

[Cynical]

My biggest problem was once the Bills had a lead, they quit applying pressure to the QB and went to the prevent defense. I don't know if that was Fewell's decision or Jauron's, but it failed on multiple occassions.

 

Unfortunately, every fan of every NFL team (and probably every college team) can say the same thing. In fact, I have heard the same argument regarding the Bill's D over the years as far back as I can remember even when the Bills were good. I heard it during the Bills glory years, and when Wade and Greggo produced the best defenses in the league.

 

Every team uses the prevent at some point, much to the chagrin of the fans.

[C.Biscuit97]

Never said that.

But the article never states how the same defense picked off Romo 5 times with 2 going for TDs, and the special teams scoring 1 TD and 1 FG.

 

Hell, the reason the Bills were even in position to win the game was due to the defense and special teams.

After the game, Romo stated the Bills defense was doing things he never saw before, and it confused him. That's why he threw 5 picks.

 

As for not recovering the onside kick, is that the fault of the special teams coach or the fault of the players on the field?

 

I don't have a problem with questioning the competency of the coaching under Jauron. Hell, I was one of the most vocal Jauron critics on this board. But every close loss was not due to poor coaching, as Real Football 365 is implying.

 

Robert Royal's failure to get his foot in bounds is a coaching fault? I would be willing to bet if we watched that game we could find clear and better examples of coaching gaffes, but Royal's foot is not one of them.

 

 

Sounds like someone has been boozing.

 

But as one of the people who defended Jauron, this is all I ever said. He was a good coach but he wasn't nearly as bad as people made him out to be. The team always played hard and in the MNF games against DAL and NE, we were overmatched but both games had very good game plans.

 

As I've said before Jauron's biggest mistake was his loyalty and not hiring an experienced OC. Jauron also probably had too much of a say in personnel. By all accounts, Gailey is a very good OC. If we had just an average offense some of this past seasons, we could have made a serious playoff run. Additionally, I still think the front office is more valuable than the head coach. If Nix and company are legit, then the head coach will benefit greatly. That's the reason Pittsburgh can switch from Cowher and not miss a beat with a first time head coach.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Unfortunately, every fan of every NFL team (and probably every college team) can say the same thing. In fact, I have heard the same argument regarding the Bill's D over the years as far back as I can remember even when the Bills were good. I heard it during the Bills glory years, and when Wade and Greggo produced the best defenses in the league.

 

Every team uses the prevent at some point, much to the chagrin of the fans.

There is no point in gambling when you are ahead at the end of a game. Most coaches are going to play the odds and let the clock work with them. If the players can't get it done, you need to get new players.

[Doc]

Your point is that the Jets made it to the playoffs because the Colts "laid down". You are assuming, obviously, that there was no way that the Jets could beat them straight up. Why is that absolutely true, in your mind?

Gee, I don't know. Maybe because the Colts were 14-0 while the Jets were 7-7, the game was in Indy, and the Colts were leading by 5 before they pulled their starters? Not to mention the Colts blew-out the Jets by almost 2 TD's in the AFCCG? What gives you any reason to believe the Jets had a snowball's chance in hell of beating the Colts "straight up?"

 

Did the Bengals "lay down" (twice?) for the Jets, too? How about the Chargers? Two road playoff wins against division winners with a rookie QB?

Now you're being silly. Obviously the Bengals and Chargers didn't "lay down" in the playoffs. Whether the Bengals did in the season finale is a matter of conjecture, but they said they didn't, and moreover it was moot since without the Colts win, the Jets don't make the playoffs.

What was your point again? Oh, that the Jests didn't belong in the playoffs.

My point was that the Jets were allowed entry into the playoffs by the Colts, who everyone (well, most everyone) knows "laid down" and who were lambasted for it afterwards. As I said, I'd like to see them make the playoffs on their own merit before I anoint them as SB contenders.

[Cynical]

Sounds like someone has been boozing.

 

But as one of the people who defended Jauron, this is all I ever said. He was a good coach but he wasn't nearly as bad as people made him out to be.

 

We will continue to agree to disagree. I still say Jauron is/was one of the worst head coaches in the NFL.

One winning season out of 8-9 seasons tends to support that theory.

Feel free to continue to offer his COTY award as "proof" of whatever, but I will remind you both Wayne Fontes and Dennis Green were awarded the same thing at one point.

Besides, Jauron winning the COTY is akin to Gino Torretta winning the Heisman.

 

The team always played hard and in the MNF games against DAL and NE, we were overmatched but both games had very good game plans.

 

The part in bold is one of the few positives you can say about a Jauron team.

As for the game plan for Dallas, the defense had one, did the offense?

 

And that still does not mean he knew how to adapt as the game progressed and changed.

Revis blitzed Edwards 29-30 straight times during one game, and the only reason he stopped was due to Edwards injury.

How many times does it take a CB to blitz before somebody says, "Hey! Can we do something about this guy?"

 

As I've said before Jauron's biggest mistake was his loyalty and not hiring an experienced OC. Jauron also probably had too much of a say in personnel.

 

1. The biggest mistake was the Bears giving Jauron the HC job to begin with. That gave him the false illusion he was capable of doing the job.

I've said it all long. Jauron's problems were systemic. His approach to and philosophy of the game and team were flawed.

It would not have mattered who he brought in as OC. It was Jauron's team, Jauron's philosophy, and Jauron's system.

Either the OC did what Jauron wanted, or the OC would never got hired. Or in Turk's case, once he decided he was no longer going to conform his offense to what Jauron wanted, he was fired.

 

2. I think it was pretty obvious Jauron had way too much input into personnel. The amount of resources spent on DB acquisition and evaluation while he was in Buffalo was similar to the time he was in Chicago.

 

By all accounts, Gailey is a very good OC. If we had just an average offense some of this past seasons, we could have made a serious playoff run.

 

See #1 above.

 

Additionally, I still think the front office is more valuable than the head coach. If Nix and company are legit, then the head coach will benefit greatly. That's the reason Pittsburgh can switch from Cowher and not miss a beat with a first time head coach.

 

That is a debatable issue, no doubt,

But when the HC has significant say in or is part of the FO, it's a moot point. You cannot differentiate the positions he controls. You cannot claim he had no talent to work with when he is responsible for the talent that is there.

[Mr. WEO]

Gee, I don't know. Maybe because the Colts were 14-0 while the Jets were 7-7, the game was in Indy, and the Colts were leading by 5 before they pulled their starters? Not to mention the Colts blew-out the Jets by almost 2 TD's in the AFCCG? What gives you any reason to believe the Jets had a snowball's chance in hell of beating the Colts "straight up?"

 

 

Now you're being silly. Obviously the Bengals and Chargers didn't "lay down" in the playoffs. Whether the Bengals did in the season finale is a matter of conjecture, but they said they didn't, and moreover it was moot since without the Colts win, the Jets don't make the playoffs.

 

My point was that the Jets were allowed entry into the playoffs by the Colts, who everyone (well, most everyone) knows "laid down" and who were lambasted for it afterwards. As I said, I'd like to see them make the playoffs on their own merit before I anoint them as SB contenders.

 

The Colts were behind in the AFCCG until the 3rd Q. They took a 3 point lead into the 4th Q. A "blowout" for your purposes.

 

So you are "conjecturing" that the Benagals may have laid down in week 17? Palmer went 1/11 as a tuneup for the Jets game the following week? He was "resting" his completion percentage for the playoffs?

 

Look, we are all aware that the Jets got in because they beat the Colts and that the Colts rested their starters at some point. So what? The Jets might have lost that game and missed the playoffs. Are you saying they were not a worthy playoff team afterall? Did they go one and done like division winners Cincy and SD? Other than repeating the same thing over and over, your point seems to be that despite their playoff success, you don't think the Jets are very good because they took advantage of an opportunity beyond their control.

 

OK, now I understand.

[Doc]

The Colts were behind in the AFCCG until the 3rd Q. They took a 3 point lead into the 4th Q. A "blowout" for your purposes.

 

So you are "conjecturing" that the Benagals may have laid down in week 17? Palmer went 1/11 as a tuneup for the Jets game the following week? He was "resting" his completion percentage for the playoffs?

 

Look, we are all aware that the Jets got in because they beat the Colts and that the Colts rested their starters at some point. So what? The Jets might have lost that game and missed the playoffs. Are you saying they were not a worthy playoff team afterall? Did they go one and done like division winners Cincy and SD? Other than repeating the same thing over and over, your point seems to be that despite their playoff success, you don't think the Jets are very good because they took advantage of an opportunity beyond their control.

 

OK, now I understand.

True, the Jets were leading by 4 points at the half. Then they pulled their starters...oh, wait a second!

 

BTW, you unwittingly killed your "well, the Jets could have pulled off a miracle..." since the Jets couldn't hold that huge 4 point lead because they didn't score again and ended-up surrendering another 17 points. But the earlier matchup would have been different, well, just because.

 

The Jets got into the playoffs because the Colts laid down. I could give a rip about whether the Bengals laid down in week 17 or not. I offered that they didn't because they said they didn't, and the results of the next game/weekend make it almost impossible to argue otherwise. So yes, I AM saying that I'll need to see them make the playoffs on their own merits before saying they're a contender. After all, the Bills despite all their dysfunction, managed to beat them once, in their own house.

 

And what's funny is that the Jets added 2 players from that Chargers team, who came up small and were a factor in the Chargers losing to the Jets. That along with Revis, Mangold, and Ferguson being disgruntled, and dumping key players from the team last year.

[Mr. WEO]

True, the Jets were leading by 4 points at the half. Then they pulled their starters...oh, wait a second!

 

BTW, you unwittingly killed your "well, the Jets could have pulled off a miracle..." since the Jets couldn't hold that huge 4 point lead because they didn't score again and ended-up surrendering another 17 points. But the earlier matchup would have been different, well, just because.

 

The Jets got into the playoffs because the Colts laid down. I could give a rip about whether the Bengals laid down in week 17 or not. I offered that they didn't because they said they didn't, and the results of the next game/weekend make it almost impossible to argue otherwise. So yes, I AM saying that I'll need to see them make the playoffs on their own merits before saying they're a contender. After all, the Bills despite all their dysfunction, managed to beat them once, in their own house.

 

And what's funny is that the Jets added 2 players from that Chargers team, who came up small and were a factor in the Chargers losing to the Jets. That along with Revis, Mangold, and Ferguson being disgruntled, and dumping key players from the team last year.

Look, you mischaracterized the AFCCG as a "blowout". Can't help you retract that one.

 

You said it was a matter of conjecture (for who??) that the Bengals may have laid down. Then you refute that argument.

 

Finally you claim the Jets are not contenders because of how they got into the playoffs---completely ignoring what they did in the playoffs, including "contending" for the AFC Championship and a SB appearance.

 

Jus trying to nail you down to this position. You are a famously moving target.

[hammie65]

I agree with the assessment of the pats and the fins but I believe the main AFC East threat is the Jets who may be explosive this year due to their off-season moves\aquisitions. Much of it (as others have stated) depends on the play of Sanchez (as it does the fins and Henne). Most any team can do a 180 in either direction each season but I doubt this will happen with the Jets. I also agree with statements made about the coaching of Dick Jauron and crew and believe the new coaching staff will bring far more success for the Bills, even for this upcoming season. I watched way too many games be lost by the former staff and their bone-headed game planning and play calling to believe things won't change and get better with the new staff. Also, if the Pats lose Mankins as well, they may well be at the bottom of the division at the end of the season (are their players seeing the hand-writing on the wall). The nay-sayers may end up being right and the Bills may end up having a terrible season, but I wouldn't put any money on it.

[Doc]

Look, you mischaracterized the AFCCG as a "blowout". Can't help you retract that one.

 

You said it was a matter of conjecture (for who??) that the Bengals may have laid down. Then you refute that argument.

 

Finally you claim the Jets are not contenders because of how they got into the playoffs---completely ignoring what they did in the playoffs, including "contending" for the AFC Championship and a SB appearance.

 

Jus trying to nail you down to this position. You are a famously moving target.

A 13 point win is a blowout. But if you prefer a different term, by all means, go ahead. It still doesn't change the fact that the Jets wouldn't have beaten the Colts in week 16 had the Colts not sat their starters.

 

The Bungles sat their starters at the half of the season-ender. Maybe they could have "won half the game" like you trumpeted the Jets doing in that AFCCG, after some halftime adjustments. Don't know, don't care. The point is it's about as plausible as your claim that the Jets stood much of a chance of beating the Colts straight-up.

 

And I see. Because the Jets won 2 games in the playoffs last year, it automatically means they're guaranteed to go to the SB this year. Is that it? Kind of like how the Dols were supposed to last year or the Jets were supposed to in 2007? Sorry, fool me once...

[Mr. WEO]

A 13 point win is a blowout. But if you prefer a different term, by all means, go ahead. It still doesn't change the fact that the Jets wouldn't have beaten the Colts in week 16 had the Colts not sat their starters.

 

The Bungles sat their starters at the half of the season-ender. Maybe they could have "won half the game" like you trumpeted the Jets doing in that AFCCG, after some halftime adjustments. Don't know, don't care. The point is it's about as plausible as your claim that the Jets stood much of a chance of beating the Colts straight-up.

 

And I see. Because the Jets won 2 games in the playoffs last year, it automatically means they're guaranteed to go to the SB this year. Is that it?[/b] Kind of like how the Dols were supposed to last year or the Jets were supposed to in 2007? Sorry, fool me once...

HA! No, that's not it. What are you talking about? "Contender" means "guaranteed to go to the SB"? Well, I guess for your argument to make sense to you--it has too.

 

It's all really simple---the Jets were SB contenders last year (by definition, any team battling in a conference championship game is a contender for a SB spot--you gonna argue that too?) so it doesn't require an incredible leap to consider them contenders (just that, calm down) this year.

 

The Bengals sat their starters at halftime because they were being humiliated. That humilation continued a week later.

[BillsFanInLV]

+1

 

Count me on the bandwagon with the Biscuit. As I just posted in another thread:

 

If the players and coaches had the attitude of these fans, they would never improve. The Pats are aging and have not drafted well for years--they are on the brink of a collapse. The Jets are a bad chemistry set in the hands of an over-enthusiastic screaming adolescent. The Fins are quarterbacked by nobody and just acquired the most poisonous locker room receiver in the game. The Bills will do no worse than 3-3 in the division this year, and finish above .500.

 

Don't tell me to put down the crack pipe. It's better than sticking my head in the oven with the rest of you.

 

I agree with much of what you said....except: The Pats are aging and have not drafted well for years--they are on the brink of a collapse.

 

Billicheat and his coaching alone will still be able to produce a 10 win team, even with injury and aging talent.

 

and: The Fins are quarterbacked by nobody and just acquired the most poisonous locker room receiver in the game.

 

Henne showed flashes of decency, and with Ronnie Brown running the wildcat and occasionally passing the ball, they will be able to produce points. Henne has created chemestry with Bess who I feel is a stud and has shown improvement over the last two years. --A 'Wes welker-esque' type of player who is exciting to watch.

Marshall, although annoying at times brings a huge threat to the WR corp, Camarillo/Hartline are decent and with solid TE's, I predict they will be ranked in the middle to top third of the NFL in scoring. This is a team that has youth (much like the Bills) and has thrusted their rookies into starting roles last year, meaning they have game playing experience. I also feel they are like the Bills in the fact that their coach has developed a 'gimmick' offense to utilize the players talents that are on the roster. Granted, we haven't seen one down of footbal that counts, but we are all aware that gailey has shown the ability to maximize player output in the past.

 

As far as the Jets are concerned, Sanchez will have some more growing pains, but I think the Jets and the additions they made this year and last (S. Holmes, B. Edwards, Rogers Cromartie, Jason Taylor, L. Tomlinson) will take on the 'bad boys of the NFL' mindset with something to prove and win games. Probably have the same record of last year with 9-7 if not better.

 

----So if 9-7 (Jets) and 10-6 (Pats) is what is needed to get a playoff berth and/or a wildcard, then we have to bring that record and that caliber of play in order to see some post season games. I'm optimistic but I don't underestimate the enemy.

 

Just my opinions and thoughts on the topic.

[Doc]

HA! No, that's not it. What are you talking about? "Contender" means "guaranteed to go to the SB"? Well, I guess for your argument to make sense to you--it has too.

 

It's all really simple---the Jets were SB contenders last year (by definition, any team battling in a conference championship game is a contender for a SB spot--you gonna argue that too?) so it doesn't require an incredible leap to consider them contenders (just that, calm down) this year.

Look, I gave you my reasons as to why I think the Jets are overhyped. The easy thing is to do is to look at their miraculous playoff season last year and say "they're contenders!" The only thing left is to agree to disagree and wait and see what happens.

[Dr. K]

I agree with much of what you said....except: The Pats are aging and have not drafted well for years--they are on the brink of a collapse.

 

Billicheat and his coaching alone will still be able to produce a 10 win team, even with injury and aging talent.

 

and: The Fins are quarterbacked by nobody and just acquired the most poisonous locker room receiver in the game.

 

Henne showed flashes of decency, and with Ronnie Brown running the wildcat and occasionally passing the ball, they will be able to produce points. Henne has created chemestry with Bess who I feel is a stud and has shown improvement over the last two years. --A 'Wes welker-esque' type of player who is exciting to watch.

Marshall, although annoying at times brings a huge threat to the WR corp, Camarillo/Hartline are decent and with solid TE's, I predict they will be ranked in the middle to top third of the NFL in scoring. This is a team that has youth (much like the Bills) and has thrusted their rookies into starting roles last year, meaning they have game playing experience. I also feel they are like the Bills in the fact that their coach has developed a 'gimmick' offense to utilize the players talents that are on the roster. Granted, we haven't seen one down of footbal that counts, but we are all aware that gailey has shown the ability to maximize player output in the past.

 

As far as the Jets are concerned, Sanchez will have some more growing pains, but I think the Jets and the additions they made this year and last (S. Holmes, B. Edwards, Rogers Cromartie, Jason Taylor, L. Tomlinson) will take on the 'bad boys of the NFL' mindset with something to prove and win games. Probably have the same record of last year with 9-7 if not better.

 

----So if 9-7 (Jets) and 10-6 (Pats) is what is needed to get a playoff berth and/or a wildcard, then we have to bring that record and that caliber of play in order to see some post season games. I'm optimistic but I don't underestimate the enemy.

 

Just my opinions and thoughts on the topic.

 

 

What you say is very reasonable. I think the Dolphins are a rising team. I just don't trust the Jets chemistry, and they are depending on LT to play well on the downside of his career after giving away two of their runners. And it's hard to bet against the Pats, but all I'm saying is that none of these teams are without problems, and any of them could collapse. The Pats are where the Bills were in the late 90s, full of aging stars, with new players who have not established themselves at the same level. When the crash came, it came suddenly and hard.

 

Not that they will.

[milehiLou]

What you say is very reasonable. I think the Dolphins are a rising team. I just don't trust the Jets chemistry, and they are depending on LT to play well on the downside of his career after giving away two of their runners. And it's hard to bet against the Pats, but all I'm saying is that none of these teams are without problems, and any of them could collapse. The Pats are where the Bills were in the late 90s, full of aging stars, with new players who have not established themselves at the same level. When the crash came, it came suddenly and hard.

 

Not that they will.

oh but how sweet it will be.

[Pneumonic]

The sal cap has seen to it that most every team has the opportunity to field a competitive team of players. Thus, not much difference exists in talent level between teams. Its been like this for eons now.

 

What does differentiate one team from another are the intangibles that start at the top with ownership and then feeds all the way down to the coaching staff and then onto the players. Such teams are winners through and through. When a team has this winning intangible they find ways to win. Think the Pats over the last decade. When the team doesn't have this intangible, they find ways to lose. Think the Bills this last decade.

 

Not sure how this season will play out but if I had to put money down it would be that the Pats continue to win while the Bills continue to lose.