Fezmid Posted December 2, 2004 Posted December 2, 2004 Can't be, sorry. It would interfere with my being a pedantic supercilious anal orifice. Gotta go steal the neighbor's stereo now...yeah, it's his property, and B&E and burglary are probably felonies...but I'm sure it's okay... 142140[/snapback] Technically, the comparison doesn't hold up, since theft involves physical property: def: theft - the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it Downloading doesn't involve any property being removed from the rightful owner. If I download Slap Shot, the original owner can still watch it as well. If you steal the stereo, the original owner can no longer use the stereo. So it's not quite the same thing. I understand and agree with your point though. CW
Fezmid Posted December 2, 2004 Posted December 2, 2004 Agree 100%, though I only go back to '96 on the Net & '97 on USENET."unwashed masses" That's a big reason why I love the NG's; let the fugtards play with P2P & get busted by the Feds. 142147[/snapback] Yeah, I'm a geek. Been online since '87 or '88. Had a friend who had a friend who was in college and had a computer account but didn't know anything about computers. Managed to get the username/password/phone number and found it was a VAX/VMS account. Learned a bit about VMS, including how to use USENET and later how to use telnet. Things were a lot more open back then -- managed to get access to some computer systems that I don't think I was supposed to be able to get access to, but it was fun exploring nonetheless (didn't do anything illegal that I know of). Later got an account on a UNIX server (from another friend in college) and then the real fun began. EDIT: Hmm, I'm hurt. The oldest reference I can find to myself on Google is from '93. http://groups.google.com/groups?q=fezmid&s...RST.EDU&rnum=29 CW
stevestojan Posted December 2, 2004 Posted December 2, 2004 I look at it this way... of course it's wrong. But then again, you have to pick your battles. When I was 17, my parents knew I drank with my friends. They let me know the issues associated with it and the trouble I could get in. However, they were smart enough to know that whatever they did (short of literally locking me in my room) at age 17, I was going to go out and have drinks with my friends. That being said, my dad always told me that no matter what, no matter where, and no matter at what time, if i ever needed a ride, if I was ever in trouble, to call him. When I was 19 on St. Patty's day, I called my dad for a ride home at 4:00am. He was asleep, and I felt bad for doing it, but he thanked me for doing it. If I had had parents who didn't pick their battles, and told me that drinking was wrong, and I should never do it, I would STILL do it (kids do things like that, no way around it) I would have been scared to call him for a ride, and god knows what ditch they would have dug me out of. You may or may not agree with this (which of course AD and DC Tom wont) but whatever. To bring this to a point of this topic, at least we know that Tracy and her son communicate. He is close enough to her to tell her what he is doing ,with no fear that she will go nuts. She obviously knows how to "protect" him, somewhat, by making sure he isnt SHARING the files, so she knows the subject at least a bit. IF she told her son "NEVER DL a song or else!", he would still do it, hiding it from her, and maybe she wouldnt be sure he wasn't sharing. Then, he gets in deep crap. Again, its all about picking your battles. I can just imaging that AD's kids live by "you WILL NOT drink until you are 21, NEVER EVER download anything, and if you EVER have sex before marriage, I will take my 12 gauge out and make sure you never use that thing again!" These are the kids that end up drinking themselves to death, becoming hackers, and getting pregnant at 17 because they didnt have their dad there to say, "if you're gonna do it, use a rubber". Turning a blind eye, or demanding kids don't ever do anything wrong is simply naive. The comparison of download a song and stealing a stereo are off base and you both know it. Again, I think that he should buy the products (as for the very least, he will get better quality), but he's a kid, and it is good to see he at least has enough parental support where he isnt scared to ask his mother a question . Now, DC Tom and AD, please go through this and tell me what words I spelled wrong, as I'm sure that's what you paid attention to in this rant. Tracy, you may want to have your son read those articles that were posted, as the government is crackign down. But don't ever change the way of parenting where you son feels comfortable talking to about things. Otherwise, he might grow up to be a guy that tears apart everyone on a mesaage board when he is a father, as a way to make himself feel good - and we all know we don't want that.
Fezmid Posted December 2, 2004 Posted December 2, 2004 These are the kids that end up drinking themselves to death, becoming hackers, and getting pregnant at 17 because they didnt have their dad there to say, "if you're gonna do it, use a rubber". The kids could kill themselves, get someone pregnant, or become HACKERS?!?! What the hell Steve? And I won't even go into the fact that being a hacker is a GOOD THING (the media twisted the word's real meaning around; they mean crackers, not hackers). But seriously, how is hacking related to the other two things AT ALL!? CW
stevestojan Posted December 2, 2004 Posted December 2, 2004 The kids could kill themselves, get someone pregnant, or become HACKERS?!?! What the hell Steve? And I won't even go into the fact that being a hacker is a GOOD THING (the media twisted the word's real meaning around; they mean crackers, not hackers). But seriously, how is hacking related to the other two things AT ALL!? CW 142182[/snapback] Did you actually READ the sentence before that? The Kids I was referring to go back to that sentence: I can just imaging that AD's kids live by "you WILL NOT drink until you are 21, NEVER EVER download anything, and if you EVER have sex before marriage, I will take my 12 gauge out and make sure you never use that thing again!" Kids that live by such strict guidlines end up rebelling, or not being taught enough, because parents worry more about the rules and are naive thinking their kids will actually not do things on their own, grow up to do those things... read it again man.
Dan Gross Posted December 2, 2004 Posted December 2, 2004 Later got an account on a UNIX server (from another friend in college) and then the real fun began. EDIT: Hmm, I'm hurt. The oldest reference I can find to myself on Google is from '93. http://groups.google.com/groups?q=fezmid&s...RST.EDU&rnum=29 CW 142153[/snapback] Heh, read 'em and weep, rook! 4/5/89! http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22Dan+G...%40PSUVM&rnum=6
Tux of Borg Posted December 2, 2004 Posted December 2, 2004 I knew it was a matter of time until CW joined the conversation. The RIAA managed to do one thing very well. They showed the youth of America how corrupt and special interest driven congress is. When I was growing up my father showed me the arpanet. The army reserve unit he worked at had it, and I got to see it first hand. After that I didn't get online until 94. I really miss the days before the .com revolution, where everything became grossly over commercialized. The more the federal and state government try to regulate the Internet, the worse it gets. They want to tax it, they want to monitor it and they want to meddle in the development of it.
Fezmid Posted December 2, 2004 Posted December 2, 2004 Heh, read 'em and weep, rook! 4/5/89! http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22Dan+G...%40PSUVM&rnum=6 142201[/snapback] Heh, Bitnet addresses, very impressive. I could probably find some stuff from me if I could remember the username that my friend (and my friend's friend) had... (didn't usually sign things with "Fezmid" back then, only logged into MUDs with that name). It was something in SUNY Buffalo, but don't remember the username (or even the domain) at all... Oh well. CW
BF_in_Indiana Posted December 2, 2004 Posted December 2, 2004 I find it quite amazing that the same two that said "it's just a cup" can't see the irony in this. It's just a DVD.
mcjeff215 Posted December 2, 2004 Posted December 2, 2004 Not to sound like big brother, but one summer i was home for college, and my room was no longer my room. I had been bumped from my old bedroom, which was now an office. Anyway, I didnt have a TV and I need TV on to go to sleep (i dont know, weird thing). Anyway, I went on Kazaa and downloaded 10 episodes of Seinfeld. About a week later, my powerlink stopped working. I figured it was just a temporary thing, and I let it go. Still, next day, nothing, so i called, and they said my account was suspended, and it was being reveiwed with the copywrite (or copyright, whatever) infringement department and I should expect a phone call. Two days later, a phone call from a detective with the Buffalo PD. Told me that i was offering copyrighted material from my machine. See, if you dont go in and turn it off, whatever you download is available to everyone else (hence, P2P sharing works). Anyway, he said it was my first and last warning. A week later, I got a huge packet in the mail from either 20h Century Fox or one of those HUGE companies (forget which one at the time - whichever one owns the company that produces seinfeld) explaining that what I was doing was punishable by up to 250,000 dollars and 5 years in prison. Again, obviously just a scare tactic, but it worked. I don't know if the moral here is to not DL or to make sure you aren't sharing, but let me tell you, i was sweating bullets for a couple days. Just my $.02. Oh, and currently I use DVD Shrink, but that's just to back up my DVDs that I own, in case they get scratched 142025[/snapback] Got a call from Sony while at work.... I forgot to shut it off and they tracked me down. Seems I had uploaded 100 some copies of a yet-to-be-released-cd. This was before they started cracking down. It's iTunes all the way for me now.
Fezmid Posted December 2, 2004 Posted December 2, 2004 I knew it was a matter of time until CW joined the conversation. Is that a compliment or an insult? The RIAA managed to do one thing very well. They showed the youth of America how corrupt and special interest driven congress is. When I was growing up my father showed me the arpanet. The army reserve unit he worked at had it, and I got to see it first hand. After that I didn't get online until 94. I really miss the days before the .com revolution, where everything became grossly over commercialized. The more the federal and state government try to regulate the Internet, the worse it gets. They want to tax it, they want to monitor it and they want to meddle in the development of it. 142202[/snapback] True, very true. And now the MPAA is trying to buy their way into Internet2 (can't remember if they have a real name for that yet or not). They're afraid that users will be able to download entire full-quality movies in seconds with I2, so they're attempting to buy their way on, even though it's supposed to be for research only (at this time). See what happens... CW
Fezmid Posted December 2, 2004 Posted December 2, 2004 Got a call from Sony while at work.... I forgot to shut it off and they tracked me down. Seems I had uploaded 100 some copies of a yet-to-be-released-cd. This was before they started cracking down. It's iTunes all the way for me now. 142207[/snapback] On a tangent, I will say that this is one BIG reason I'm against wireless networking -- if you don't know what you're doing (and most home users don't), it'd be trivial for a neighbor to download stuff under your name and get you in trouble for it. I havn't heard of this happening yet, but I don't see why it could. From my living room alone, I can get 10 wireless signals and of those, 5 of them are unprotected. In other words, I could download illegal stuff from the homes of those 5 people and they'd get blamed for it, not me. Wireless is bad IMHO. Anyway, off to bed; hope the thread doesn't die by tomorrow morning. CW
stevestojan Posted December 2, 2004 Posted December 2, 2004 I would also like to add that overall, I do agree with the fact that it is inherintly (sp?) wrong. Why? Because many people say "oh, those big companies don't need more money!"... the truth is, like AD said, sh-- travels downhill. If the music industry gets affected by say 1% fue to illegal downloads, the ones losing their jobs aren't the Brittany Spears' of the world, its the guy who holds the light in one of her music videos, etc. So, AD and Tom, there you are not wrong. I just disagree with the questioning of the parenting. That's all. Goodnight all.
Guest shane conlan Posted December 2, 2004 Posted December 2, 2004 as someone who works for a record label and most of my friends are in bands, my advice is: whatever you want, download the sh-- out of it. honestly, Sony isnt hurting for cash, production companies arent locking their doors, but for a 13 year old to go blow $20 on a CD and find that only ONE song is worth listening to is the real crime. why do you think there are SOOOO many new bands that come out of no where, just to be over-hyped, and over-exposed so kids will be suckered into buying the cd for one song, and the labels just sit back and count money. and dont worry about the artists, theyre lucky if they see ANYTHING from those cd sales. so dont listen to people who cry about stealing from the artists, the labels steal from the artists more than anyone. if you worry about the bands, go see them live, thats where bands make money, touring. the labels dont care about the bands, or "creative property", or whoever is buying the music, as long as its getting purchased. eff 'em, download away
Guest Guest Posted December 2, 2004 Posted December 2, 2004 I would also like to add that overall, I do agree with the fact that it is inherintly (sp?) wrong. Why? Because many people say "oh, those big companies don't need more money!"... the truth is, like AD said, sh-- travels downhill. If the music industry gets affected by say 1% fue to illegal downloads, the ones losing their jobs aren't the Brittany Spears' of the world, its the guy who holds the light in one of her music videos, etc. So, AD and Tom, there you are not wrong. I just disagree with the questioning of the parenting. That's all. Goodnight all. 142219[/snapback] NO ONE, i repeat, NO ONE, is losing jobs cause of downloading i believe the numbers a few years ago came out like: the record industry said they lost close to $5billion in 2001 because of downloading, BUT when you look further into it they still had a profit increase of over $2billion, taking their earnings up to something ridiculous like $20billion dont worry about the light guys, they still got a raise
NavyBillsFan Posted December 2, 2004 Posted December 2, 2004 WOW! Like flies on fresh poo in here! Tracy, if your kid is going to do what everyone in this place does then get him off those popular servers like WINMX. They are being watched like hawks. Go download the MIRC chat system and download from there if your going to play that game. It is only legal to make backups of your software, music, or movies. Don’t let the Internet tuff guys in here piss you off. These guys are about one chicken wing away from a heart attack. Fat slobs who nobody knows who either pay for sex or need comic books and fantasy games to forget who they really are…. They think they’re making a difference in America on the TBD Political board. These guys have a hard time getting off the couch to order a pizza. I see their pictures at the tailgate parties or their local Bills Bar and laugh my ass off. They will be dead from CHF soon enough…. Next season home games will be a blast with these guys; it should be a great unforgettable meeting… Oh and software, do use DVDX or just tell your son to surf on the WINMX for DVD burners. That is a legal software download!
Alaska Darin Posted December 2, 2004 Posted December 2, 2004 I find it quite amazing that the same two that said "it's just a cup" can't see the irony in this. It's just a DVD. 142205[/snapback] And I don't plan on going over there and starting a fuggin' riot over it, either. Should you decide to go back and research it, revisionist, you'll see that I advocated penalties for the "cup thrower" and anyone else involved in the off the court melee as well. I also stated something to the effect that the fat guy who got clobbered should be charged with trespassing for being on the court and if I were the judge he'd get NOTHING financially for his troubles. Once again, you completely miss the point. It used to be kind of sad. Now it's simply pathetic.
NavyBillsFan Posted December 2, 2004 Posted December 2, 2004 You’re dead right on this. The big dogs know this will never end and only get worse. If they crack down that hard on the down loaders then your MP3 player market is going to dive… Geeze, I wonder who makes those MP3 players? Sony? Every new anti pirate software or chip for players and cd/dvd comes out there is somebody there who breaks it. NDS (who makes smart cards for DTV) has now jumped on the bandwagon and is trying to come up with an encrypted DVD type of format that can’t be broke. NDS is about the best in the business at anti theft since their new DTV smart card has yet been hacked. DTV is a ton different than DVD movie burning and there are a zillion people out there making a ton of money off of it. What one man can make another can break… Its sort of like the Radar Fuzz Busters. The same company that makes the speeder guns for the police also make the fuzz boxes for the common idiot who buys them. Its fun to watch what will come next! as someone who works for a record label and most of my friends are in bands, my advice is: whatever you want, download the sh-- out of it. honestly, Sony isnt hurting for cash, production companies arent locking their doors, but for a 13 year old to go blow $20 on a CD and find that only ONE song is worth listening to is the real crime. why do you think there are SOOOO many new bands that come out of no where, just to be over-hyped, and over-exposed so kids will be suckered into buying the cd for one song, and the labels just sit back and count money. and dont worry about the artists, theyre lucky if they see ANYTHING from those cd sales. so dont listen to people who cry about stealing from the artists, the labels steal from the artists more than anyone. if you worry about the bands, go see them live, thats where bands make money, touring. the labels dont care about the bands, or "creative property", or whoever is buying the music, as long as its getting purchased. eff 'em, download away 142220[/snapback]
GG Posted December 2, 2004 Posted December 2, 2004 Technically, the comparison doesn't hold up, since theft involves physical property: def: theft - the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it Downloading doesn't involve any property being removed from the rightful owner. If I download Slap Shot, the original owner can still watch it as well. If you steal the stereo, the original owner can no longer use the stereo. So it's not quite the same thing. I understand and agree with your point though. CW 142148[/snapback] And this, again, is the fundamental point. People associate theft with illegal possession of physical property, when the most basic premise is that theft is illegal possession of PROPERTY. Intellectual property is still, very much, property. It's great that Tracy's husband is a skilled union craftsman. Perhaps he can do some free work on the weekends for NBC's president for her son's enjoyment of Slap Shot. I think it's a fair trade.
DC Tom Posted December 2, 2004 Posted December 2, 2004 I find it quite amazing that the same two that said "it's just a cup" can't see the irony in this. It's just a DVD. 142205[/snapback] I never said "It's just a cup", retard. I said "A real man doesn't commit felony assault over a cup." Just like he doesn't commit a felony over a DVD.
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